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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
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New animations are slow, players are now constrained by the combat system instead of personal skill.
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ColoursYouHave✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love how people talk about animation cancelling being "unfair". AC is one of the few things that literally every single person in the game can do unconditionally. Gear doesn't matter, stats don't matter, skills don't matter; from the second you enter the Coldharbour tutorial, you have the ability to animation cancel. AC might actually be one of the most fair things in the game. If something that everybody has access to is "unfair", I can't even imagine how people feel about things that everybody does not have access to, like Monster Sets and Maelstrom weapons.
My impression then, isn't that people think AC is unfair, its that people think it is unfair that players with more skill are able do better than them in the game.8 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ColoursYouHave wrote: »I love how people talk about animation cancelling being "unfair". AC is one of the few things that literally every single person in the game can do unconditionally. Gear doesn't matter, stats don't matter, skills don't matter; from the second you enter the Coldharbour tutorial, you have the ability to animation cancel. AC might actually be one of the most fair things in the game. If something that everybody has access to is "unfair", I can't even imagine how people feel about things that everybody does not have access to, like Monster Sets and Maelstrom weapons.
My impression then, isn't that people think AC is unfair, its that people think it is unfair that players with more skill are able do better than them in the game.
and apparently ZOS listens to them with their "Fixes"0 -
K4RMA✭✭✭✭
lel luf u goisnerf mdk0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Legion wrote: »
lel luf u gois
COME BACK TO THE GAME YOU PLEB I MISS U
jk *** u i h8 u
COME BACK TO MEEEE 0 -
K4RMA✭✭✭✭Lord_Legion wrote: »
lel luf u gois
COME BACK TO THE GAME YOU PLEB I MISS U
jk *** u i h8 u COME BACK TO MEEEE
but lyke, i dont luf unerf mdk0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Legion wrote: »Lord_Legion wrote: »
lel luf u gois
COME BACK TO THE GAME YOU PLEB I MISS U
jk *** u i h8 u COME BACK TO MEEEE
but lyke, i dont luf u
I will rekt u scrub0 -
Aerem✭✭✭Lord_Legion wrote: »Lord_Legion wrote: »
lel luf u gois
COME BACK TO THE GAME YOU PLEB I MISS U
jk *** u i h8 u COME BACK TO MEEEE
but lyke, i dont luf u
I will rekt u scrub
@KenaPKK /derail thread
#mDK Masterrace
#NerfDragonblood
#NerfmDK
Aerem Incendium l mDK0 -
Cydone✭✭✭✭This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.
Ew, no cooldowns. That would completely change the combat system of the game, which is just fine without cooldowns. The old animation system worked fine, and I suppose this one could too...if it worked properly. Poisons screw it up, and the animations glitch out a lot. Needs fixes, not radical changes!5 -
Cydone✭✭✭✭This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.
Ew, no cooldowns. That would completely change the combat system of the game, which is just fine without cooldowns. The old animation system worked fine, and I suppose this one could too...if it worked properly. Poisons screw it up, and the animations glitch out a lot. Needs fixes, not radical changes!
The server lags horribly in pvp. Has ever since the game launched. Adding in cooldowns will slow the combat down slightly for yourself, but also everyone else, therefore alleviating a lot of load on the server making pvp far less laggy. It's much easier for the server to track cooldown timers than it is for it to track the massive damage done from insta-spam abilities with no cooldown whatsoever.0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.
Ew, no cooldowns. That would completely change the combat system of the game, which is just fine without cooldowns. The old animation system worked fine, and I suppose this one could too...if it worked properly. Poisons screw it up, and the animations glitch out a lot. Needs fixes, not radical changes!
The server lags horribly in pvp. Has ever since the game launched. Adding in cooldowns will slow the combat down slightly for yourself, but also everyone else, therefore alleviating a lot of load on the server making pvp far less laggy. It's much easier for the server to track cooldown timers than it is for it to track the massive damage done from insta-spam abilities with no cooldown whatsoever.
And cooldown gated combat would be sluggish and boring as hell. They'd have to fundamentally rebalance everything. It would be a completely different game.
Part of why I for one love this game is how fast paced the combat is. Ability use is gated by resources, not cooldowns. That is awesome. We just have too much sustain under the CP system... That is the problem, not cooldowns.
Get out of the zergs, and it's not so laggy. I play on Haderus and in the Imperial City, and I rarely encounter lag anymore.1 -
Cydone✭✭✭✭This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.
Ew, no cooldowns. That would completely change the combat system of the game, which is just fine without cooldowns. The old animation system worked fine, and I suppose this one could too...if it worked properly. Poisons screw it up, and the animations glitch out a lot. Needs fixes, not radical changes!
The server lags horribly in pvp. Has ever since the game launched. Adding in cooldowns will slow the combat down slightly for yourself, but also everyone else, therefore alleviating a lot of load on the server making pvp far less laggy. It's much easier for the server to track cooldown timers than it is for it to track the massive damage done from insta-spam abilities with no cooldown whatsoever.
And cooldown gated combat would be sluggish and boring as hell. They'd have to fundamentally rebalance everything. It would be a completely different game.
Part of why I for one love this game is how fast paced the combat is. Ability use is gated by resources, not cooldowns. That is awesome. We just have too much sustain under the CP system... That is the problem, not cooldowns.
Get out of the zergs, and it's not so laggy. I play on Haderus and in the Imperial City, and I rarely encounter lag anymore.
I play on Trueflame and if there's a big battle on one side of the map, completely away from where I am, the entire server will lag. And sluggish combat?? Check out some of the old NGE SWG videos. Though the video quality will surely be sh*t, the combat was fast and enjoyable. And if it alleviates lag to a large degree, so fighting in huge battles(one of the games selling points) doesn't result in a warping slideshow, then a big change is warranted.0 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭I played SWG back in the day, even had a hologrind jedi; looking at vids of it again though really just disenchanted me
check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD0m9G5ZanA 0 -
Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.
Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.
"Animation cancellers" lol
As if that doesn't encompass every player in the game.
If you're not animation cancelling in both PvE and PvP or at least learning how to, then you're bad and you're not playing the game properly.
Animation cancelling is a fundamental component of this game's complex combat system that separates players along a spectrum of mechanical mastery. Putting it bluntly, to disagree is to pander to casuals and carebears and to want combat to be plain and equally easy for all players. Under a system with weakened or no animation cancelling, PvE would be dominated by who can put together the single meta build, resulting in equal dps among all players who do so, and numbers would dominate PvP instead of skill.
That is a simple fact, and that attitude will be the end of this game. Casual players don't keep a game alive. Hardcore ones do.
EDIT: I will add that the value of animation cancelling in PvP is to take advantage of an enemy's mistakes to burst them down and kill them. Healing and defense are very strong in this game. Given a second or two, an enemy who is low can dodge roll around and use a few healing abilities, and then voila, they're full health again. A good player will learn how to pop an animation cancelled burst combo or execute between these defensive maneuvers or inside a cc window in order to achieve the kill. Without animation cancelling, damage becomes low and combat becomes slow and paced. The instances of damage from a light attack, ability cast, and bash (if used) are spaced out within the 1 second global cooldown window, leaving the opponent time to react and roll around or heal. This makes combat too forgiving for players who make mistakes, protecting them from the death they deserved.
Basically, the new animation changes limit the speed with which dexterous and practiced players may execute combos, constraining their skill to a lower skill ceiling level. This is a very frustrating feeling -- to be limited by the game's combat system rather than your own potential -- and will run players off quite quickly. We hardcore players love this game and are extremely loyal to it (despite ZOS pushing us away with every patch...) because its combat system is organic and engaging. With this patch, ZOS has degraded that feeling. This is unacceptable and cannot continue. I have friends and guildies who love this game quitting daily because of this change. That cannot be ignored.
As for PvE, animation cancelling allows players to tighten their damage instances and maneuver between their light attack + ability weaves. This allows PvE players to execute the mechanics of their encounters while maintaining high dps. With the current animation changes, I expect ball group heal tanking to become more prevalent out of necessity since people will be less mobile in fights. Overall, combat will feel sticky and slow just like movement did after the Thieves' Guild patch.
No competitive player can disagree with these points.
And a non-competitive player has no place weighing into debates on combat balance and mechanics in a competitive game. Choose your side.
I agree 100%0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.
One of the most praiseworthy aspects of ESO is its unique blend of action combat with MMO gearing and character development. Cool down based system would be horrible.
the way ultimates work now, which is basically a cooldown, is horrible. There is no risk/reward, no advantage to those with more mechanical skill, no advantage to those with better situational awareness. Simply, more players equals more ults (or more negates, for this patch).2 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.
One of the most praiseworthy aspects of ESO is its unique blend of action combat with MMO gearing and character development. Cool down based system would be horrible.
the way ultimates work now, which is basically a cooldown, is horrible. There is no risk/reward, no advantage to those with more mechanical skill, no advantage to those with better situational awareness. Simply, more players equals more ults (or more negates, for this patch).
Need dynamic ulti gen.1 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.
One of the most praiseworthy aspects of ESO is its unique blend of action combat with MMO gearing and character development. Cool down based system would be horrible.
the way ultimates work now, which is basically a cooldown, is horrible. There is no risk/reward, no advantage to those with more mechanical skill, no advantage to those with better situational awareness. Simply, more players equals more ults (or more negates, for this patch).
Need dynamic ulti gen.
Yes, I will drop all the banners!1 -
Aerem✭✭✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »This is why they need to just go to a cooldown system. Allow us to instantly "spam" any ability we want, but have a cooldown timer on most, if not all, abilities. Then just allow us to break the animations by triggering another ability. Reduce cast times and bring in cooldowns. While the NGE version of SWG was hated, the initial NGE sucked.....and the servers couldn't handle the new faster combat of the NGE(the servers were literally running P3 server CPU's), when you go into small engagements in pvp, ones the server could actually handle, the pvp was AMAZING! On a couple of the NGE emulators out there it showed that the instant cast abilities w/ cooldowns, coupled with a server that was actually up-to-date, did amazingly well. How the cooldowns could be introduced is something that ZoS would have to look into, cause only having 5+1 abilities on a single toolbar is VERY limiting when talking about bringing in cooldowns. It would slow the combat down a little though, from everything being able to be spammed, with no cooldown, at will as long as you have the resources to do so.
One of the most praiseworthy aspects of ESO is its unique blend of action combat with MMO gearing and character development. Cool down based system would be horrible.
the way ultimates work now, which is basically a cooldown, is horrible. There is no risk/reward, no advantage to those with more mechanical skill, no advantage to those with better situational awareness. Simply, more players equals more ults (or more negates, for this patch).
Need dynamic ulti gen.
Yes, I will drop all the banners!
@KenaPKK he gets itEdited by Aerem on June 13, 2016 9:48PM
#mDK Masterrace
#NerfDragonblood
#NerfmDK
Aerem Incendium l mDK1 -
MickeyBN✭✭✭✭Ok so post patch, good news is they fixes the weapon swap idle animations, bad news is the combat still feels like crap.Vaelerys Nightborn - Bosmer Nightblade PC NA1 -
JDar✭✭✭✭✭You are not constrained any more by this if you have good positioning, judicious target choice, and superior skill selection. There are plenty of things you can do to be better. Frankly this choice just cuts out the people who just have fast reaction times and no real intellect. You're not saying you have no intellect are you?Edited by JDar on June 14, 2016 1:26AM2
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KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You are not constrained any more by this if you have good positioning, judicious target choice, and superior skill selection. There are plenty of things you can do to be better. Frankly this choice just cuts out the people who just have fast reaction times and no real intellect. You're not saying you have no intellect are you?
I'm actually functioning fine now. I made this post in angry reaction to the adjustment.
Combat still feels clunky as hell though. Just because I'm adjusted and functioning doesn't mean that it feels good.2 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You are not constrained any more by this if you have good positioning, judicious target choice, and superior skill selection. There are plenty of things you can do to be better. Frankly this choice just cuts out the people who just have fast reaction times and no real intellect. You're not saying you have no intellect are you?
You can have the fastest reaction time in the world - won't help you when skills don't fire off because the new combat stuff is clunky and sluggish and unresponsive. Your point is kinda valid though. Obviously good players will adapt, but that doesn't change the fact that something is wrong and needs to be fixed. Which has been confirmed by ZoS though we don't know the progress on a fix because reasons.Edited by Wollust on June 14, 2016 9:05AMSusano'o
Zerg Squad6 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Articulemort wrote: »
Please stop embarrassing your fellow console players, especially with the personal attacks. smh0 -
outsideworld76✭✭✭"Time is what keeps everything from happening at once."
Why even bother with animations at all? Who needs those in a video game?
1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I play magicka templar, and these changes negatively affect me as well.
It's mainly with toppling charge. It's so slow and predictable.
Give back old toppling to us
I don't mind wasting potions to use it, I just want it back Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They could have just added a color code or something and left the combat animations alone.
while im not a huge fan of animation canceling, i didn't want combat being rendered clunky either. all they had to do was add a color system to light, heavy, and skill use...and left the animations alone...AC would still be possible, combat would still feel fluid, and folks would be happy with visual feedback...now...we are stuck with combat that oftentimes feels unresponsive.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0
