The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – May 6, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
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• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – May 8, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
Dark Brotherhood Sorcerer Q&A
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SorataArisugawa✭✭✭✭✭
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
Edited by SorataArisugawa on May 30, 2016 10:35AMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe it's just me but... what's wrong with "having to" use weapon skill lines?
Every stamina build does that too in PvE in form of Rapid Strikes, but when Sorcerers "have to" use Destruction Staff it's the end of the world.
Any other build in pvp has vaible option to choose from with different playstyles.
Show me a sorc without destruction staff and i know they don´t have the ability to kill me on any class. Especially with Dawnbreaker AND trapping webs removed. Magica sorcerer is the only class that is 100% locked on one weapon choice to be semi competetive for pvp with the next patch.
What's wrong with having to equip a destruction staff though? It's the magicka damage dealing weapon in this game, one I'm using on all of my ranged magicka characters because it's simply the best choice even if you have class abilities you can spam.
Besides, I'm quite sure you can go DW on a sorc & spam overload, dealing more damage with it than you would with destruction staff equipped. Next patch, you can combine that with Elegance set & legit one shot people. Yay.
It's kind of the opposite of magicka NBs actually, where you equip DW to perform a niche role of proxy bombing groups - in single target that kind of magicka NB is much weaker than one who can utilize the single target burst & sustain that destro staff heavies provide.
Meanwhile, to play a ranged magicka DK you also have no choice but to use destro staff - and there's nothing wrong with that.
That's just PvP. In PvE, all magicka classes are locked to using destro staff for vMSA staves & WoE.
Bottom line is: there are things to complain about the Sorcerer class - but "having to" use destruction staff as Magicka Sorcerer really isn't one. The lack of "active" skills when 100% passive toggles fill your bar is where I'd start at.
Apart from overload a magica sorc has one legit offensive build choice (and overload is just broken nonsense that should be reworked for the sake of the whole class). There is a reason why i mainly stated pvp (pve is dw for all stam destro for all mag i don´t enjoy that either but it´s zos way of making balancing easier).
For PvP:
DK can choose between magica melee and ranged.
NB can choose between magica melee and ranged (with ranged have double resto as an option aswell).
Templar can choose between magica melee and ranged (with casttime/channel heavy builds even DW ranged/hybrid builds).
Sorc can play magica ranged with destro and a dw ranged 1000 ulti trollbuild (that you´re considering this a legit build is very telling of your view on the class). The class offers no choices at all compared to any other class.
You´re being nonconstructive on a class you don´t main while at the same time whining on NB topics that you have to use rapid strikes over SA in pve. Then at the same time you come here telling me having to slot a destro staff with force shock to do ANYTHING in the game on a magica sorc is fine?
What you´re doing is the same as if i had come to every stam(nb) topic pre vigor and posted what´s wrong about having to equip 2h to have access to a heal.
Sorry but what you´re doing is either completely nonreflective or bigot.
What you think of Overload is your opinion, but the amount of overload sorcs I see in PvP indicates it's a very viable build. Maybe not for your purposes but... it's viable.
And sure, sorcs are actually the only class that doesn't have a melee magic skill, granted. Maybe Crystal Blast could be turned into one to increase build diversity - but as long as there isn't one I don't even see why you'd even want to use DW (or 2H) over destro staff. You play a ranged magicka character - you use a magic staff (not a 2H weapon or Dual Wield).
That's kind of like if a stamina build complained about there not being viable destro or resto builds. You are not supposed to use those with a stamina character (though I suppose you can with the Pelinal set...).
I may not main a sorcerer, but I have played the class extensively (well, mostly stamina but also a fair bit on my magicka sorc). I am not saying the class is without issues - but it sure doesn't have issues that would warrant this outbreak of negativity & toxicity like seen on this thread.
Do you ever wonder why ZOS hasn't been communicating with us much? Just take a look at the responses in this thread.
Alas, since I've been accused of nonconstructivity let me reiterate my very constructive stance, again:- Bound Armaments/Aegis should function like Magelight (passively granting buffs while on bar) & should have an active component to the skill. Inactive skills on bar just make the gameplay more dull & one-dimensional.
- One of the pets should get a stamina morph.
- If +60% cost poisons end up fixing the shield spam problem, then reducing their duration as well was unnecessary.
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
The main issue people have with force shock (and destro staff in general) is that it´s just all around terrible compared to other weapon lines or class skills. It fails at creating diversity because if you have an actual choice on what to use every destruction staff spell is worse than it´s competitor.
Imo destro staff should function in a way that for example a nightblade has a valid choice and should make that one depending on the build played - between funnel health and force shock.
Should i use impulse or sap essence.
Should i use elemental drain (boy is that spell terrible for just about anything atm) or mark.
It´s just as much sorc specific criticism for me as it is criticism on the destro staff skillline (because sorc is so dependant on it compared to other classes that mostly only use heavy attacks).
My point on overlol remains. If you consider that a valid build then a DW max spelldmg templar zergsurfing with cheesusbeam is a valid build aswell.
I agree on most other things you say but having played the class and with every patch getting more and more conered into one specific playstyle that i dislike and is the complete opposite of how the class used to play - i can understand people getting hostile and bitter towards the developers (it´s giving me headaches thinking about having to slot mines and attro because very apparently that´s how sorc is supposed to be played).
Sorcs are the only class without a magica melee option. Without a spammable non finisher spell in general. Have no class targetted- or pbaoe. Have no targetted dot.
I´ve recently picked up on my stamblade again, i play my templar and i´ve been playing magblade for some time. Sorcerer is so terribly limited on what it can do compared to any of those classes it´s just sad.
The worst part being ZOS sticking to the idea of making pets vaible. They won´t ever work simply because of how lag affects their AI/movement.Edited by Derra on May 30, 2016 10:39AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
If we're talking of PvP, I suggest you take a look at the frost staff builds utilizing Winterborn & Skoria, which work extremely well (can provide video material if that's really necessary).
In PvP, lightning staff is also very good: undodgeable heavy attack, disintegrates, chance to proc -15% dmg done debuff on target...
Next patch you can use it with the V16 scaled Infallible Aether & deal 1k (500 in PvP) more damage with every single Heavy Attack tick.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maybe it's just me but... what's wrong with "having to" use weapon skill lines?
Every stamina build does that too in PvE in form of Rapid Strikes, but when Sorcerers "have to" use Destruction Staff it's the end of the world.
Any other build in pvp has vaible option to choose from with different playstyles.
Show me a sorc without destruction staff and i know they don´t have the ability to kill me on any class. Especially with Dawnbreaker AND trapping webs removed. Magica sorcerer is the only class that is 100% locked on one weapon choice to be semi competetive for pvp with the next patch.
What's wrong with having to equip a destruction staff though? It's the magicka damage dealing weapon in this game, one I'm using on all of my ranged magicka characters because it's simply the best choice even if you have class abilities you can spam.
Besides, I'm quite sure you can go DW on a sorc & spam overload, dealing more damage with it than you would with destruction staff equipped. Next patch, you can combine that with Elegance set & legit one shot people. Yay.
It's kind of the opposite of magicka NBs actually, where you equip DW to perform a niche role of proxy bombing groups - in single target that kind of magicka NB is much weaker than one who can utilize the single target burst & sustain that destro staff heavies provide.
Meanwhile, to play a ranged magicka DK you also have no choice but to use destro staff - and there's nothing wrong with that.
That's just PvP. In PvE, all magicka classes are locked to using destro staff for vMSA staves & WoE.
Bottom line is: there are things to complain about the Sorcerer class - but "having to" use destruction staff as Magicka Sorcerer really isn't one. The lack of "active" skills when 100% passive toggles fill your bar is where I'd start at.
Apart from overload a magica sorc has one legit offensive build choice (and overload is just broken nonsense that should be reworked for the sake of the whole class). There is a reason why i mainly stated pvp (pve is dw for all stam destro for all mag i don´t enjoy that either but it´s zos way of making balancing easier).
For PvP:
DK can choose between magica melee and ranged.
NB can choose between magica melee and ranged (with ranged have double resto as an option aswell).
Templar can choose between magica melee and ranged (with casttime/channel heavy builds even DW ranged/hybrid builds).
Sorc can play magica ranged with destro and a dw ranged 1000 ulti trollbuild (that you´re considering this a legit build is very telling of your view on the class). The class offers no choices at all compared to any other class.
You´re being nonconstructive on a class you don´t main while at the same time whining on NB topics that you have to use rapid strikes over SA in pve. Then at the same time you come here telling me having to slot a destro staff with force shock to do ANYTHING in the game on a magica sorc is fine?
What you´re doing is the same as if i had come to every stam(nb) topic pre vigor and posted what´s wrong about having to equip 2h to have access to a heal.
Sorry but what you´re doing is either completely nonreflective or bigot.
What you think of Overload is your opinion, but the amount of overload sorcs I see in PvP indicates it's a very viable build. Maybe not for your purposes but... it's viable.
And sure, sorcs are actually the only class that doesn't have a melee magic skill, granted. Maybe Crystal Blast could be turned into one to increase build diversity - but as long as there isn't one I don't even see why you'd even want to use DW (or 2H) over destro staff. You play a ranged magicka character - you use a magic staff (not a 2H weapon or Dual Wield).
That's kind of like if a stamina build complained about there not being viable destro or resto builds. You are not supposed to use those with a stamina character (though I suppose you can with the Pelinal set...).
I may not main a sorcerer, but I have played the class extensively (well, mostly stamina but also a fair bit on my magicka sorc). I am not saying the class is without issues - but it sure doesn't have issues that would warrant this outbreak of negativity & toxicity like seen on this thread.
Do you ever wonder why ZOS hasn't been communicating with us much? Just take a look at the responses in this thread.
Alas, since I've been accused of nonconstructivity let me reiterate my very constructive stance, again:- Bound Armaments/Aegis should function like Magelight (passively granting buffs while on bar) & should have an active component to the skill. Inactive skills on bar just make the gameplay more dull & one-dimensional.
- One of the pets should get a stamina morph.
- If +60% cost poisons end up fixing the shield spam problem, then reducing their duration as well was unnecessary.
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
The main issue people have with force shock (and destro staff in general) is that it´s just all around terrible compared to other weapon lines or class skills. It fails at creating diversity because if you have an actual choice on what to use every destruction staff spell is worse than it´s competitor.
Imo destro staff should function in a way that for example a nightblade has a valid choice and should make that one depending on the build played - between funnel health and force shock.
Should i use impulse or sap essence.
Should i use elemental drain (boy is that spell terrible for just about anything atm) or mark.
It´s just as much sorc specific criticism for me as it is criticism on the destro staff skillline (because sorc is so dependant on it compared to other classes that mostly only use heavy attacks).
My point on overlol remains. If you consider that a valid build then a DW max spelldmg templar zergsurfing with cheesusbeam is a valid build aswell.
I agree on most other things you say but having played the class and with every patch getting more and more conered into one specific playstyle that i dislike and is the complete opposite of how the class used to play - i can understand people getting hostile and bitter towards the developers (it´s giving me headaches thinking about having to slot mines and attro because very apparently that´s how sorc is supposed to be played).
Sorcs are the only class without a magica melee option. Without a spammable non finisher spell in general. Have no class targetted- or pbaoe. Have no targetted dot.
I´ve recently picked up on my stamblade again, i play my templar and i´ve been playing magblade for some time. Sorcerer is so terribly limited on what it can do compared to any of those classes it´s just sad.
The worst part being ZOS sticking to the idea of making pets vaible. They won´t ever work simply because of how lag affects their AI/movement.
Derra, while Force Pulse may not be used by magicka NBs, Wall of Elements & Destructive Clench are. Just look at what Blobs pulls off with it. If I'm not mistaken, the same frost build works very well on sorcs as well, yes?
My ranged magicka DK also uses Force Pulse & Molten Armaments+Fire Staff heavies and Frost Clench on 2nd bar, despite having things like Whip & Talons available.
I don't think the problem of sorc builds being cornered into one specific playstyle is because they don't have a strong spam skill from their class, I think the problem is:- Toggles taking way too many skill slots & limiting the number of other skills you can have on bar.
- Lack of a melee magic ability - thus no melee magicka builds.
As simple as that.1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Great to see a response like this as it answers a few issues I had. Although the trapping webs paragraph is a little unclear at the end, in short it's staffs or nothing if you want a spammable attack, right? And no change planned or is there?Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
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Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Derra, while Force Pulse may not be used by magicka NBs, Wall of Elements & Destructive Clench are. Just look at what Blobs pulls off with it. If I'm not mistaken, the same frost build works very well on sorcs as well, yes?
That´s exactly what i mean though. The spells used are used in addition to a conventional build. There is no choice involved for what blobs does (it works on sorcs too yeah - been doing that since november now).
With the nice addion that ALL of that is only being used because of one item set. People wouldn´t bother at all if it wasn´t for winterborn.
I don´t even want a strong spam skill for my class per se. I just want there to be any option for a magica filler attack competing with force shock to be available (i most likely wouldn´t use it bc of the frost component of shock + winterborn in the first place). Even a melee one would work for me.
Another thing i could live with was if they finally worked on destro staff to give all spells the same flavor as WOE + clench have (different flavor for each element used). Give every destro staff element destictive effects for all spells and i won´t complain.
I think it´s not toggle in general holding sorcs back. It´s how pets work. Imo they should work as powerful timed effects/buffs/dots (maybe even with casttime).
Bound armor could need an active component aswell but oh well i won´t complain if they finally manage to give me a pet i consider worth of a bar slot.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
SorataArisugawa✭✭✭✭✭
yeah, but it is all the same. We have just one skill even if you equip a other staff (which should change your playstyle acording to Mr. Wroble)SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
[...]
It is a sorc issue, because we are the only ones, which are tied to destruction staff... And wie are tied to the destruction stuff, we get no extra bonus of our passives for...
I am sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I get the feeling, that the whole discussion went way over your head. Do you really not see the conections?
we are forced to use the staff like no other class (you find it good that way) but if we speak about the problems of the destruction staff you mention, thats a problem of all classes... that is nonsense dude...[...]
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
[...]
Just it would be nice to have a destruction staff skill line it doesn't mean it has to be used if there is an destruction staff skill line even if it is useless...
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »
yeah, but it is all the same. We have just one skill even if you equip a other staff (which should change your playstyle acording to Mr. Wroble)SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
[...]
It is a sorc issue, because we are the only ones, which are tied to destruction staff... And wie are tied to the destruction stuff, we get no extra bonus of our passives for...
I am sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I get the feeling, that the whole discussion went way over your head. Do you really not see the conections?
we are forced to use the staff like no other class (you find it good that way) but if we speak about the problems of the destruction staff you mention, thats a problem of all classes... that is nonsense dude...[...]
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
[...]
Just it would be nice to have a destruction staff skill line it doesn't mean it has to be used if there is an destruction staff skill line even if it is useless...
Except you aren't the only class "tied" to destruction staves for the very same reasons destruction staff skill line isn't useless. You'd know this if you were familiar with high end PvE (where Wall of Elements is a must for every magicka build) & multiple PvP builds.0 -
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cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Maybe it's just me but... what's wrong with "having to" use weapon skill lines?
Every stamina build does that too in PvE in form of Rapid Strikes, but when Sorcerers "have to" use Destruction Staff it's the end of the world.
Any other build in pvp has vaible option to choose from with different playstyles.
Show me a sorc without destruction staff and i know they don´t have the ability to kill me on any class. Especially with Dawnbreaker AND trapping webs removed. Magica sorcerer is the only class that is 100% locked on one weapon choice to be semi competetive for pvp with the next patch.
What's wrong with having to equip a destruction staff though? It's the magicka damage dealing weapon in this game, one I'm using on all of my ranged magicka characters because it's simply the best choice even if you have class abilities you can spam.
Besides, I'm quite sure you can go DW on a sorc & spam overload, dealing more damage with it than you would with destruction staff equipped. Next patch, you can combine that with Elegance set & legit one shot people. Yay.
It's kind of the opposite of magicka NBs actually, where you equip DW to perform a niche role of proxy bombing groups - in single target that kind of magicka NB is much weaker than one who can utilize the single target burst & sustain that destro staff heavies provide.
Meanwhile, to play a ranged magicka DK you also have no choice but to use destro staff - and there's nothing wrong with that.
That's just PvP. In PvE, all magicka classes are locked to using destro staff for vMSA staves & WoE.
Bottom line is: there are things to complain about the Sorcerer class - but "having to" use destruction staff as Magicka Sorcerer really isn't one. The lack of "active" skills when 100% passive toggles fill your bar is where I'd start at.
Apart from overload a magica sorc has one legit offensive build choice (and overload is just broken nonsense that should be reworked for the sake of the whole class). There is a reason why i mainly stated pvp (pve is dw for all stam destro for all mag i don´t enjoy that either but it´s zos way of making balancing easier).
For PvP:
DK can choose between magica melee and ranged.
NB can choose between magica melee and ranged (with ranged have double resto as an option aswell).
Templar can choose between magica melee and ranged (with casttime/channel heavy builds even DW ranged/hybrid builds).
Sorc can play magica ranged with destro and a dw ranged 1000 ulti trollbuild (that you´re considering this a legit build is very telling of your view on the class). The class offers no choices at all compared to any other class.
You´re being nonconstructive on a class you don´t main while at the same time whining on NB topics that you have to use rapid strikes over SA in pve. Then at the same time you come here telling me having to slot a destro staff with force shock to do ANYTHING in the game on a magica sorc is fine?
What you´re doing is the same as if i had come to every stam(nb) topic pre vigor and posted what´s wrong about having to equip 2h to have access to a heal.
Sorry but what you´re doing is either completely nonreflective or bigot.
What you think of Overload is your opinion, but the amount of overload sorcs I see in PvP indicates it's a very viable build. Maybe not for your purposes but... it's viable.
And sure, sorcs are actually the only class that doesn't have a melee magic skill, granted. Maybe Crystal Blast could be turned into one to increase build diversity - but as long as there isn't one I don't even see why you'd even want to use DW (or 2H) over destro staff. You play a ranged magicka character - you use a magic staff (not a 2H weapon or Dual Wield).
That's kind of like if a stamina build complained about there not being viable destro or resto builds. You are not supposed to use those with a stamina character (though I suppose you can with the Pelinal set...).
I may not main a sorcerer, but I have played the class extensively (well, mostly stamina but also a fair bit on my magicka sorc). I am not saying the class is without issues - but it sure doesn't have issues that would warrant this outbreak of negativity & toxicity like seen on this thread.
Do you ever wonder why ZOS hasn't been communicating with us much? Just take a look at the responses in this thread.
Alas, since I've been accused of nonconstructivity let me reiterate my very constructive stance, again:- Bound Armaments/Aegis should function like Magelight (passively granting buffs while on bar) & should have an active component to the skill. Inactive skills on bar just make the gameplay more dull & one-dimensional.
- One of the pets should get a stamina morph.
- If +60% cost poisons end up fixing the shield spam problem, then reducing their duration as well was unnecessary.
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
The toxic attitude mostly comes from Wrobel acting as if sorcs are fine when in truth they're the worst magicka and stamina dps in PvE, he wants tanks to use surge that procs on crits when tanking gear and crits don't go together in a way that makes it viable just to mention a few things. Also, them having completely ignored the community for 2 years and when they say they'll have a dialogue it's basically him saying he's right and we're wrong. Going after pure numbers and not actually try the class himself and see what a boring class sorcs are just makes him completely miss what people complain about.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD9 -
SorataArisugawa✭✭✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »
yeah, but it is all the same. We have just one skill even if you equip a other staff (which should change your playstyle acording to Mr. Wroble)SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
[...]
It is a sorc issue, because we are the only ones, which are tied to destruction staff... And wie are tied to the destruction stuff, we get no extra bonus of our passives for...
I am sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I get the feeling, that the whole discussion went way over your head. Do you really not see the conections?
we are forced to use the staff like no other class (you find it good that way) but if we speak about the problems of the destruction staff you mention, thats a problem of all classes... that is nonsense dude...[...]
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
[...]
Just it would be nice to have a destruction staff skill line it doesn't mean it has to be used if there is an destruction staff skill line even if it is useless...
Except you aren't the only class "tied" to destruction staves for the very same reasons destruction staff skill line isn't useless. You'd know this if you were familiar with high end PvE (where Wall of Elements is a must for every magicka build) & multiple PvP builds.
But they don't need them for the force puls as well. I didn't say that all skills of the destruction skill line are useless just the ones we have to spam. Didn't mention wall of elements anyway. But yeah you have understand the problem again...
Why are you here again? Just want to be sure, that sorcs problems are not addressed?
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
SonofThunder✭✭✭bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ya see, all i read from that was "concerns noted, and ignored"
this is getting incredibly frustrating
Such is the way, it seems2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »
yeah, but it is all the same. We have just one skill even if you equip a other staff (which should change your playstyle acording to Mr. Wroble)SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
[...]
It is a sorc issue, because we are the only ones, which are tied to destruction staff... And wie are tied to the destruction stuff, we get no extra bonus of our passives for...
I am sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I get the feeling, that the whole discussion went way over your head. Do you really not see the conections?
we are forced to use the staff like no other class (you find it good that way) but if we speak about the problems of the destruction staff you mention, thats a problem of all classes... that is nonsense dude...[...]
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
[...]
Just it would be nice to have a destruction staff skill line it doesn't mean it has to be used if there is an destruction staff skill line even if it is useless...
Except you aren't the only class "tied" to destruction staves for the very same reasons destruction staff skill line isn't useless. You'd know this if you were familiar with high end PvE (where Wall of Elements is a must for every magicka build) & multiple PvP builds.
But they don't need them for the force puls as well. I didn't say that all skills of the destruction skill line are useless just the ones we have to spam. Didn't mention wall of elements anyway. But yeah you have understand the problem again...
Why are you here again? Just want to be sure, that sorcs problems are not addressed?
Just being here as a voice of reason and providing an ounce of common sense to this thread.
Rather than overdramatizing everything about Sorcerer (like certain people tend to do every single patch) & complaining about the answers you get, you (and everyone else) should focus on providing constructive & useful feedback.
Kicking and screaming about things isn't going to do any good for anyone, if you come up with mathematical proof as to why Sorcerers are underperforming and logical arguments rather than blunt, unfounded statements, you'd have a much better chance at making a difference.
After all this hatred & toxicity, I wonder if they'll ever do this Q&A for other classes at all.2 -
Natas013✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »
yeah, but it is all the same. We have just one skill even if you equip a other staff (which should change your playstyle acording to Mr. Wroble)SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
[...]
It is a sorc issue, because we are the only ones, which are tied to destruction staff... And wie are tied to the destruction stuff, we get no extra bonus of our passives for...
I am sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I get the feeling, that the whole discussion went way over your head. Do you really not see the conections?
we are forced to use the staff like no other class (you find it good that way) but if we speak about the problems of the destruction staff you mention, thats a problem of all classes... that is nonsense dude...[...]
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
[...]
Just it would be nice to have a destruction staff skill line it doesn't mean it has to be used if there is an destruction staff skill line even if it is useless...
Except you aren't the only class "tied" to destruction staves for the very same reasons destruction staff skill line isn't useless. You'd know this if you were familiar with high end PvE (where Wall of Elements is a must for every magicka build) & multiple PvP builds.
But they don't need them for the force puls as well. I didn't say that all skills of the destruction skill line are useless just the ones we have to spam. Didn't mention wall of elements anyway. But yeah you have understand the problem again...
Why are you here again? Just want to be sure, that sorcs problems are not addressed?
Just being here as a voice of reason and providing an ounce of common sense to this thread.
Rather than overdramatizing everything about Sorcerer (like certain people tend to do every single patch) & complaining about the answers you get, you (and everyone else) should focus on providing constructive & useful feedback.
Kicking and screaming about things isn't going to do any good for anyone, if you come up with mathematical proof as to why Sorcerers are underperforming and logical arguments rather than blunt, unfounded statements, you'd have a much better chance at making a difference.
After all this hatred & toxicity, I wonder if they'll ever do this Q&A for other classes at all.
I for one hope they never do, no class should be subjected to being told your concerns are duly noted and found to be valid, but we have no plans to address them at this time. If we as a player base as a whole let this stand and take this lying down, then the whole game runs the risk of becoming play as we say instead of play as you like. There's plenty of games like that, and those are more balanced and polished. So why play eso? Licensing and name recognition can only take you so far. Our rage is founded as each of us love this game and don't want to see it destroyed by this father knows best mentality we're fed at the behest of the average whining majority.
I'll admit I'm average, slightly above at best. Yet I don't QQ about this being OP and nerf that because I know there's a skill gap that I'm striving to overcome. All these whiners need to suck it up. This isn't grade school, everybody doesn't get a trophy. You want to get where you want in the game? Then L2P, that's what I'm doing. What these whiners are doing is making them change the rules constantly, making L2P harder on the average player, while within weeks if that long, the elite will still be elite.
So yea I'm kicking and screaming. Yea I'm filled with hatred and toxicity. I feel the situation warrants it. I've tried to maintain a cool head. This whole patch made me want to sock who ever came up with these garbage changes in the face. I've maintained decorum and a level of civility better than others, that I'm sure feel the same way, up to this point. Though the longer this all stews the worse it gets, and the more it becomes evident that they… well let's just say they don't give something that rhymes with a truck.RIP Ellania Delome
June 9, 2015-June 14, 2016
A skilled crafter, competent sorcerer, and denizen of the night
Along came the Dark Brotherhood and summarily ended it all7 -
SorataArisugawa✭✭✭✭✭
I am sorry, but the voice of reason should know about simple logical structures and are used to apply them in a discussion. I turning left and right just to "prove" there is no problem with the sorc, providing several logical flaws. Several people (including myself) showed you the problems of the class called sorcerer. But you neglect the logical failures in the class design as good as you neglect the logic in your posts. Every attempt for changing concept is called "not needed" by you. And after this you stand here and say: focus at constructive feedback. Like you would do that! DDuke the voice of reason... I get the feeling you are here with your voice for an other reason...SorataArisugawa wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »
yeah, but it is all the same. We have just one skill even if you equip a other staff (which should change your playstyle acording to Mr. Wroble)SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
[...]
It is a sorc issue, because we are the only ones, which are tied to destruction staff... And wie are tied to the destruction stuff, we get no extra bonus of our passives for...
I am sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I get the feeling, that the whole discussion went way over your head. Do you really not see the conections?
we are forced to use the staff like no other class (you find it good that way) but if we speak about the problems of the destruction staff you mention, thats a problem of all classes... that is nonsense dude...[...]
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
[...]
Just it would be nice to have a destruction staff skill line it doesn't mean it has to be used if there is an destruction staff skill line even if it is useless...
Except you aren't the only class "tied" to destruction staves for the very same reasons destruction staff skill line isn't useless. You'd know this if you were familiar with high end PvE (where Wall of Elements is a must for every magicka build) & multiple PvP builds.
But they don't need them for the force puls as well. I didn't say that all skills of the destruction skill line are useless just the ones we have to spam. Didn't mention wall of elements anyway. But yeah you have understand the problem again...
Why are you here again? Just want to be sure, that sorcs problems are not addressed?
Just being here as a voice of reason and providing an ounce of common sense to this thread.
Rather than overdramatizing everything about Sorcerer (like certain people tend to do every single patch) & complaining about the answers you get, you (and everyone else) should focus on providing constructive & useful feedback.
Who is kicking and screaming? And unfounded are the assumptions you make regarding how the sorcerer should be designed and how it should play. You don't play it. Your comments proved this already. So maybe you better go hence...Kicking and screaming about things isn't going to do any good for anyone, if you come up with mathematical proof as to why Sorcerers are underperforming and logical arguments rather than blunt, unfounded statements, you'd have a much better chance at making a difference.
Now you show the true colors... Do you think a special class needs more attention? Just asking... I guess, you have a realy realy important issue with the class you are actual playing. Should it be so simple? ...After all this hatred & toxicity, I wonder if they'll ever do this Q&A for other classes at all.
Nevertheless I am going to participate at this thread again.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3001281#Comment_3001281
It is not as fruitless as the discussion here. There are so much suggestions in the thread, sadly Wroble won't use any of them. It would be nice to see, how you argue against all of the overwhelming number of suggestions this thread @DDuke PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
WitchyWarrior✭✭✭✭So another Wroble thread where he makes one post and never returns?
Fantastic. I know he hates Mag Sorcs, but come on......2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Omg we USED DW because WE HAD TO for dps! NOT because we just didn't want to be the stereotypical mage!
Many MANY top players have proven Sorc can ONLY compare in DPS in Overload mode! That's PRIOR to the changes.
D staff - a single weapon tree line - even if it was great - PIGEONHOLED, it's ONE tree line. Sorcs have MANY slots that are extremely NICHE and dedicated. Passives that ONLY effect LIGHTNING - PIGEONHOLED
we have seriously have 5 abilities that deal damage in all skill lines. Over half are Re-Active in nature (just like our shields are suppose to be?)
Re-Acting is the Antithesis of DPS and Offense. For A LIGHT ARMOR OFFENSIVE Class, RE ACTING is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.
Maybe we can understand the fundamental issue with these changes yes?Edited by Waffennacht on May 30, 2016 5:41PM2 -
Cambion✭Being tied to the destruction staff for our main DPS is wrong, no other class is tied to a specific weapon. In fact the destruction staff should be there to allow other classes access to magicka abilities, as a sorcerer shouldn't need it. By default a weapon on a sorcerer should be their back up, as their main skills are from themselves.
I think that they should just get rid of pets full stop, they are a waste of slots and the fact that they just go off on their own is just stupid. In fact I think that a change of the whole Daedric Summoning tree would be a good idea.
Overload should be replaced, maybe with that big lightning storm from the last boss in Crypt of Hearts.
If every class is supposed to be unique, what are we? Make us AoE specialists of something, we as sorcerers are left alone in the wild, while slowly being nerfed into oblivion.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Being tied to the destruction staff for our main DPS is wrong, no other class is tied to a specific weapon. In fact the destruction staff should be there to allow other classes access to magicka abilities, as a sorcerer shouldn't need it. By default a weapon on a sorcerer should be their back up, as their main skills are from themselves.
I think that they should just get rid of pets full stop, they are a waste of slots and the fact that they just go off on their own is just stupid. In fact I think that a change of the whole Daedric Summoning tree would be a good idea.
Overload should be replaced, maybe with that big lightning storm from the last boss in Crypt of Hearts.
If every class is supposed to be unique, what are we? Make us AoE specialists of something, we as sorcerers are left alone in the wild, while slowly being nerfed into oblivion.
Leave the Pets Imo I love them. For console make the target highlight command them. Simple. Now we don't need to many moves dedicated to them though.
Or there's a concept:
Make each staff have it's own skill line like you did with other weapons.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »
yeah, but it is all the same. We have just one skill even if you equip a other staff (which should change your playstyle acording to Mr. Wroble)SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
[...]
It is a sorc issue, because we are the only ones, which are tied to destruction staff... And wie are tied to the destruction stuff, we get no extra bonus of our passives for...
I am sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I get the feeling, that the whole discussion went way over your head. Do you really not see the conections?
we are forced to use the staff like no other class (you find it good that way) but if we speak about the problems of the destruction staff you mention, thats a problem of all classes... that is nonsense dude...[...]
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
[...]
Just it would be nice to have a destruction staff skill line it doesn't mean it has to be used if there is an destruction staff skill line even if it is useless...
Except you aren't the only class "tied" to destruction staves for the very same reasons destruction staff skill line isn't useless. You'd know this if you were familiar with high end PvE (where Wall of Elements is a must for every magicka build) & multiple PvP builds.
But they don't need them for the force puls as well. I didn't say that all skills of the destruction skill line are useless just the ones we have to spam. Didn't mention wall of elements anyway. But yeah you have understand the problem again...
Why are you here again? Just want to be sure, that sorcs problems are not addressed?
Just being here as a voice of reason and providing an ounce of common sense to this thread.
That went out of the window in the case of buffing suprise attack for nightblades?
I mean you literally asked for one of the best stamina attacks (admittedly due to passives also) to be buffed to not only offer a plenthora of debuffs, selfbuffs and the ability to play a weapon of choice with it. No you also wanted that move to offer competetive DPS to rapid strikes (because that was what made stamblade special).
I can´t be the only one seeing the irony in that (i do know the DPS of stamblade isn´t competetive - but you don´t fix that by buffing an anytimer).<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 505 -
NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭Why can't we start with simple things? Remove sorc toggle abilities. Bound armor, clannfear, twilight... -3 slots on each bar. So how sorcs are supposed to use their class skills, when they also need at least 2 destro staff skills (force pulse and wall of elements)? Sorcs would use pets in pve if they wouldn't take 4 damn slots, and it's not a hard / game breaking change.
Here we have one more issure: pets have no scale with Campion Points.
If they make pets strong to match 501 CP, they will be OP for 0 CP.
If they make pets OK for 0 CP, they will not be valuable for 501 CP.
Speaking of pets... I was doing a max stat experiment here...
Look at the "pet damage" at 95k magicka.
1.6k regular, 2.4k crit
To make pets WORTH the slots they take up, we'd literally have to have around 300k magicka. That is how underpowered they are x.x650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
Broken'Stick North American Server
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks6 -
exiledtyrant✭✭✭I have been thinking over these answers for past few days and here is my feedback so far.We wanted to make the Surge ability a more universal tool in the Sorcerer kit. It wasn’t intended as a nerf, except in the case of Overload because we felt that Synergy was over-performing compared to others, such as Strife and Puncturing Strikes. We’re still working out the balance of the final numbers, so expect to see a sizable increase in Surge healing for Dark Brotherhood’s release.
It’s been a longstanding issue that Surge doesn’t play well with DoT builds, thus limiting the number of options for Sorcerers. Abilities such as Crushing Shock deal damage in 3 separate attacks and Flurry never procced the heal. Surge is now more effective for tank characters since it no longer scales off of damage done. These changes make surge more desirable for a wider number of builds and reduced its power when combined with Overload.
Surge now feels like a sustain ability instead of a spike heal ability. This design makes more sense for the ability because the procs are random. Big burst heals are something you want to be able to use with reliability when you need them. Getting a big Surge heal when you are at full health and getting no heal when you are low on health can lead to frustrating situations.
Surge has a stronger synergy with damage shields now. The shields help stop big bursts of damage and Surge helps to top off your health bar and keep you sustained through long battles. The healing values on Surge will be balanced against other popular sustain abilities such as Strife and Puncturing Strikes.
I like the universal approach to class abilities. This is actually a major problem I have with sorcerer abilities in general as they seem to shut out one type of game play vs another far to much. I think critical strike chance was an eloquent way of handling the issue without creating an issue between which resource a build depends on. It is very easy to get a static 32% critical strike chance with little to no effort. Most builds are hitting at least 3 times a second so the chance of getting a proc is fairly high already. Factor in that proc chance scales up with group size and it seems like the best way to balance it.
That being said I wish surge could have been more than just an ability that offers bigger heals. I think this current iteration misses a chance for some truly risky design. This however is a small gripe. Going forward I hope that more sorcerer skills are designed in a way that reflects the design goal of surge. Pets and the dark magic line in general feel fairly restrictive.Cast time abilities add a risk/reward mechanic that makes combat more varied and interesting. They are harder to fire off, but the payoff should make the cast time worthwhile. Some examples of abilities we feel are worth the risk are Dark Flare and Radiant Destruction. These abilities have counter play, but feel extremely powerful when executed without interruption. Finding this balance point is challenging, but it’s something we’re pursuing in an effort to make the gameplay more varied and fun.
We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome since it’s difficult to do. Our first cut at this was to double the healing it provided, a substantial improvement but not enough. For Dark Brotherhood launch we’re also significantly improving the number of resources returned. We aren’t 100% against making this ability instant cast, but we’d like to further investigate the cast time option first. We think different classes should have different mechanics for resource restoration.
I again can appreciate the fact that dark deal has the potential to be good on any build you play because it doesn't scale on resource or weapon stats. That being said the cast time makes it hard to dig myself out of a hole when I drop to low health.
Instead of removing the cast time, has there been any consideration to adding game play options to work around the cast time? For instance instead of having the exploitation passive in the Dark magic line it could be replaced with a passive called "Dark Prophecy".
Dark Prophecy would read as:
Dark Prophecy - The Sorcerer and up to 5 other players in their group can receive a stack of Dark prophecy when they block or dodge an attack. Each stack of Dark prophecy reduces the cast time of their next ability by 25/50%. Dark prophecy stacks up to 2 times and last for 5 seconds.
Active ways to reduce cast time would still allow for risk vs reward without the risk always feeling so one side. I like being able to plan ahead and dark conversion doesn't really allow for that. With Dark Prophecy a player would have to risk blocking or dodging at the right time along with the resource drain this entails. If they do succeed on the risk however they are rewarded with an instant cast spell.We want every class to feel different; they all have unique pros and cons. For example DKs also don’t have a spammable Stamina-based ability. They instead have damage-over-time Stamina abilities from Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath. Hurricane is the Sorcerer class’ Stamina-based damage ability. We made significant updates to this ability for Dark Brotherhood:- Now deals physical damage so it scales with your physical damage stats
- Deals increasing damage-over-time
- Damage per cast on this ability is now extremely high
- Increases in size over time
- Cool new FX!
- Now grants the Minor Expedition buff
I definitely agree that classes need to play different to feel different. The hurricane changes overall have been great. I do wish there were more ways to gain major expedition as a sorcerer. Quick cloak and bow dodge rolling are competent at what they do, but I would have liked an even easier way to access the buff if not have it be totally exclusive.
For stamina Sorcerer in general I find myself moving around and buffing a lot. I think it would be great if my gameplay decisions were more focused around these two activities. Rewarding me for buffing and utilizing my speed could offer unique and fun gameplay moving forward.
Two examples of gameplay that would reward buffing would be a reworked blood magic and rebate passive.
Blood magic could read:
Blood Magic - Gain X%/X% of your max health each time a buff is cast on the sorcerer
Rebate could read:
Rebate - Gain X/X% of you highest resource when a buff ends.
An example of rewarding movement could be a new bound aegis active.
Bound Aegis could read:
Bound Aegis: Grants Minor ward/resolve while slotted. When activated the sorcerer's armor begins to gather the latent magicka around them. After moving X distance their armor produces a damage shield that absorbs X damage for X seconds.We’re adding a damage limit to pets so they can’t be 1-shot. This should give you more time to shield them reactively instead of proactively. Also keep in mind that pets take less damage from AoE attacks to make up for the fact that they can’t intelligently move out of red telegraphs.
Does this mean pets with basically have permanent Magma Armor? If the extra damage reduction does not pan out will the pets receive a health raise, gain CP bonuses, or even a mixture of both?We think this is a fun idea. However, there is much deliberation when considering if an ability should be converted to Magicka or Stamina. The Clannfear’s heal currently scale off the player’s max Health, meaning this is an ideal ability for a tank. Tanks generally spend the majority of their Stamina blocking, and then use their Magicka for utility abilities and heals. This change would put a further tax on the tank’s Stamina resource which is at odds with the new change to constitution where tanks now get back more Magicka each time they are hit. On the whole, converting an ability is exciting because new builds are created, however it can be frustrating as old builds are destroyed.
I am fine with the pet skills costing magicka. It is their scaling on magicka that puts me off. Current scaling only really benefits pure magicka DPS or Healers. I feel cut off from my pets when I play as a stamina sorcerer. I think clannfear could become a unique form of Sorcerer only mitigation and that Winged Twilight could offer more sustained damage for both resource types. For that to happen though I think pets need to be looked at in the same lens that Surge fell under.
******************************************************************
With all that said I have three questions about skills I just can't ever find myself wanting to use:
1. Encase - What's up with this skill? It has never felt right to me. Even a small change like making it a PBOE from the caster's position would be a massive improvement in my opinion. It's morphs feel equally underwhelming.
2. Daedric Tomb - I liked the newest iteration of this morph. Mines still feel awkward in PvE though and Magicka Sorcerers seems pretty content with Daedric Minefield. I don't feel this morph pushes back enough to make itself a competitive morph.
3. Mages Fury - Will this skill ever scale for stamina and magicka users equally? Does implosion/disintegrate hold this skill back? Implosion/Disintegrate proccing together with Mages Fury can lead to a lot of burst damage however they are far from guaranteed.
The execution threshold for sorc feels like it takes forever to get to. I always picture an execute as an overwhelming skill that turns on at a % threshold of health. Mage's fury never really made me feel like that whether I used it as a magicka or hybrid build.Edited by exiledtyrant on May 30, 2016 6:57PMIf all are brethren
How could my hands not tremble
As breath fled my prey?
What blinds my vision?
My hands are tools; it must be
The haze of blossoms
-Salous the Penitent0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »
yeah, but it is all the same. We have just one skill even if you equip a other staff (which should change your playstyle acording to Mr. Wroble)SorataArisugawa wrote: »
[...]
and since you brought it up, one more:- Sorcs should get access to a magicka melee (not ranged spammable, I still think there's a reason why destruction staff skill line exists) skill as well in order to increase build diversity.
See, I can be constructive. I just happen to disagree with one complaint people have and the general toxic attitude in this thread.
We could talk about it, if force pulse would use a special element with the same DMG as now. Further all 3 staffs have to be able to weave and should provide a similar amount of DMG at a single target over all.
Otherwise the sorc has to change. Even if you "think, that the destruction staff skill line for a reason" or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but guys who play the sorc all the time and in comparison to other players with other classes aren't satisfied with a methaporical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line...
I assume we're talking of PvE now.
What's wrong with Force Pulse dealing all 3 types of damage? it's a good thing, you get to proc more status effects.
Sure, i agree that frost/lightning staves should deal similar DPS to Fire - but that's not a Sorc issue, it's an universal one. Do you think the other classes aren't using inferno staff in PvE? Wall of Elements is a must use skill in PvE for all magicka builds aiming to do good DPS.
[...]
It is a sorc issue, because we are the only ones, which are tied to destruction staff... And wie are tied to the destruction stuff, we get no extra bonus of our passives for...
I am sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I get the feeling, that the whole discussion went way over your head. Do you really not see the conections?
we are forced to use the staff like no other class (you find it good that way) but if we speak about the problems of the destruction staff you mention, thats a problem of all classes... that is nonsense dude...[...]
And I have no idea what you mean by "metaphorical value of the existence of the destruction staff skill line" - that went way over my head, sorry.
[...]
Just it would be nice to have a destruction staff skill line it doesn't mean it has to be used if there is an destruction staff skill line even if it is useless...
Except you aren't the only class "tied" to destruction staves for the very same reasons destruction staff skill line isn't useless. You'd know this if you were familiar with high end PvE (where Wall of Elements is a must for every magicka build) & multiple PvP builds.
But they don't need them for the force puls as well. I didn't say that all skills of the destruction skill line are useless just the ones we have to spam. Didn't mention wall of elements anyway. But yeah you have understand the problem again...
Why are you here again? Just want to be sure, that sorcs problems are not addressed?
Just being here as a voice of reason and providing an ounce of common sense to this thread.
That went out of the window in the case of buffing suprise attack for nightblades?
I mean you literally asked for one of the best stamina attacks (admittedly due to passives also) to be buffed to not only offer a plenthora of debuffs, selfbuffs and the ability to play a weapon of choice with it. No you also wanted that move to offer competetive DPS to rapid strikes (because that was what made stamblade special).
I can´t be the only one seeing the irony in that (i do know the DPS of stamblade isn´t competetive - but you don´t fix that by buffing an anytimer).
Well, there are ways of buffing skills & their DPS without them affecting PvP too much, but it's good you brought up stamina nightblades. That is one community that is in much, much worse spot than magicka sorcerers when it comes to both PvP & PvE, yet we remain the capacity of calmly discussing our class & suggest improvements that are backed up by both math & logic.
To people saying magicka sorcs can't compete in PvE: there's videos of a sorc pulling 39k DPS at vMoL 2nd bosses - more than magicka NBs, slightly less than magplars
To people saying magicka sorcs suck in PvP (lol): look who won the last EU dueling tournament
Not saying there aren't issues with the sorc class, or that some improvements aren't needed but... some people just overdramatize the situation. There are classes & builds with twice the amount of issues, and they dont rage & complain half as much.Edited by DDuke on May 30, 2016 7:18PM0 -
Feynn✭✭✭
We based this decision on extensive playtesting, player feedback, and data from the Maelstrom Arena leaderboards. It was our intent to make Sorcerers increase investment in maintaining their current levels of survivability.Why did we receive so many defensive nerfs without a single usable buff to our defense / sustainability? (Shields and Surge.)
@Wrobel , I wonder what sort of player feedback you received. Right now the feeling among all the high-end PvE players I've spoken to is this: "I only use my Sorcerer as a Maestrom bot, because that's all he's good for. When I do any kind of group content I bring one of my other characters from other classes." Now that you are removing the things that made Sorcerer a good class for Maelstrom, you are basically removing the only thing Sorcerers were good for. You are simply telling us to stop playing Sorcerer, and if you are able to look at the data after the next patch goes live I am sure you will see that fewer and fewer people will be playing the class, especially as magicka sorcerers.
You are saying that your intent is to make Sorcerers increase investment in maintaining current levels of survivability. That means necessarily that Sorcerers will need to decrease their current investment in other things, like DPS. But Sorcerers already lag behind in sustained DPS compared to other classes, they are only good at short bursts of damage, purely thanks to Overload.
The classes are only "balanced" when, if you have to make a new character, you would feel that all classes are on the same level and it wouldn't really matter which class you picked. Nowadays, if you one of your friends were to start playing the game, would you ever recommend them to play a Sorcerer? Honestly, Wrobel, if you had to roll a new character today, would you roll a Sorc? I didn't think so.
Join us on Stormhaven RP! The largest TESO roleplay community of the Daggerfall Covenant, EU Megaserver.5 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is frustrating.
Will we see a class-change in future?
I don't want my main to be sorcerer any more. He is bad in trials now and we will not get meaningful changes for this class in nearest future. My point of view at sorcerer is directly opposite with devs. I guess I just need to accept this after more than 2 years of maining sorcerer and hoping for better place for my beloved class in high end trial PvE, witch is my only love in MMO.
I just feel sad for all achievements I have on him.
I feel your pain. So much time on my character and pretty much every achievement except fishing completed... It feels like a waste of time now that the character is useless...
I feel the same way Ive done just about everything but VMOL and Fishing with my Sorc and I'm finding my Templar just feels like a complete class.Edited by RebornV3x on May 30, 2016 11:39PMXbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
We based this decision on extensive playtesting, player feedback, and data from the Maelstrom Arena leaderboards. It was our intent to make Sorcerers increase investment in maintaining their current levels of survivability.Why did we receive so many defensive nerfs without a single usable buff to our defense / sustainability? (Shields and Surge.)
@Wrobel , I wonder what sort of player feedback you received. Right now the feeling among all the high-end PvE players I've spoken to is this: "I only use my Sorcerer as a Maestrom bot, because that's all he's good for. When I do any kind of group content I bring one of my other characters from other classes." Now that you are removing the things that made Sorcerer a good class for Maelstrom, you are basically removing the only thing Sorcerers were good for. You are simply telling us to stop playing Sorcerer, and if you are able to look at the data after the next patch goes live I am sure you will see that fewer and fewer people will be playing the class, especially as magicka sorcerers.
You are saying that your intent is to make Sorcerers increase investment in maintaining current levels of survivability. That means necessarily that Sorcerers will need to decrease their current investment in other things, like DPS. But Sorcerers already lag behind in sustained DPS compared to other classes, they are only good at short bursts of damage, purely thanks to Overload.
The classes are only "balanced" when, if you have to make a new character, you would feel that all classes are on the same level and it wouldn't really matter which class you picked. Nowadays, if you one of your friends were to start playing the game, would you ever recommend them to play a Sorcerer? Honestly, Wrobel, if you had to roll a new character today, would you roll a Sorc? I didn't think so.
I am not convinced that matters for his playstyle.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
ListerJMC✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm still not happy about the surge change. I really hope there is a "sizeable increase in surge healing" if this change really isn't being reverted, percentage-based surge healing made the class more exciting and dynamic to play for me.
And now it seems we have to use DoTs to increase our chances at getting healing, it sounds like it just made frost staves in particular less viable than they already were. It'd be nice if the other staves would get some love, it's exceptionally boring having everyone use a fire staff.
Edit: Updating to say I'm still not a fan of the change, I feel like I'm healing for much less than I was, but I'm managing it.Edited by ListerJMC on August 22, 2016 2:49PMPC NA & EU || Mammoth Guilds - Victory or Valhalla || Altmer sorcerer main
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, Sorc is going to be the undeniable worst class next patch
It takes plenty of tunnel vision to avoid realizing this. However.....
• I will still play Sorcerer (my main). No hopping on the FotM Stam DK/NB bandwagon
• My Stam Sorc is leveling for next patch
• It will become rarer to see Stamina or Magicka Sorcs, so I get to be unique
On the bright side, all three of the other classes are much more balanced and competitive with each other, and only Sorc really needs to be reworked.
Besides Hurricane, and clever use of one or two skills in my Stam Sorc builds, I will pretty much feel like I forgot to pick a class. Lol! That's pretty "awesome" if Dark Exchange wasn't...Edited by Vaoh on May 31, 2016 2:02AM2 -
mistermutiny89✭✭✭✭✭Nearly all these answers are so unsatisfactory.
The devs thought processes are so one dimensional. Really disappointing. Reading that was giving me a headache.
Sorry for the lack of constructivity but.... Never mind. Answers like those are all the explanation we need for why balance in this game is so uncouth.Guild Leader : Defenders Of Miley
XB1 EU
EP | VR16 Breton NB -mistermutiny
AD | VR16 Dunmer DK - Grigori
AD | VR16 Altmer Sorcerer - Isvoleet
AD | VR16 Imperial DK - Leonidas
AD | VR16 Bosmer NB - Hood
AD | VR16 Breton Templar - Dante
AD | VR16 Redguard Sorcerer - Raiden
AD | VR7 Khajiit Templar - Ike'ilyew
DC | 160 Breton NB - Vergil
"Hmmm... Very convincing.. Does the illusion apply to.. Everywhere? Perhaps this one should have a moment alone in private to double check" - Razum'Dar0
