The Elder Scrolls Online

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"Immortal Guards" need a boost!

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  • clayandaudrey_ESO
    clayandaudrey_ESO
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    Since when did you gain a bounty by a player seeing you take something? If the NPC doesn't see you someone could follow you all day and not be able to do anything .
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    Indeed.
    This we cannot have.
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    The PVP justice system won't be griefing if the proper tools are implemented. Make it so you can actually stop them and give them a chance to pay the bounty and if they don't that is their choice. Remember we are talking about the same universe where stealing a sweet roll and killing a little chicken are death sentences in the eyes of the law.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • rootimus
    rootimus
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    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Will lead to griefing.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.
    Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
    Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    The PVP justice system won't be griefing if the proper tools are implemented. Make it so you can actually stop them and give them a chance to pay the bounty and if they don't that is their choice. Remember we are talking about the same universe where stealing a sweet roll and killing a little chicken are death sentences in the eyes of the law.
    We are speaking ZoS here.
    You really even hope, this could be done? XD
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Will lead to griefing.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.
    Causing grief to others.
    Alltough it is generally used, this is prone to change from interpretation, from person to person.
    What is griefing to one, is therefor not griefing to others.
    Though a good general definition is to harass people through actions, such as following the person, hindering him in his actions.
    In this specific case: thieving.
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • Zouni
    Zouni
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    I found it to be easy now that I maxed out the ledgerman, however it was much harder as I leveled this skill in the early stages. I think that the balance is well so that hose who are leveling it have to go through some pain and when you max it out it becomes easier.
    Nyxtes - NB
    Nyxta - Sorc
    Mastrofonoss - DK
    Gr Blue - Temp
  • rootimus
    rootimus
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    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    The PVP justice system won't be griefing if the proper tools are implemented. Make it so you can actually stop them and give them a chance to pay the bounty and if they don't that is their choice. Remember we are talking about the same universe where stealing a sweet roll and killing a little chicken are death sentences in the eyes of the law.
    We are speaking ZoS here.
    You really even hope, this could be done? XD
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Will lead to griefing.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.
    Causing grief to others.
    Alltough it is generally used, this is prone to change from interpretation, from person to person.
    What is griefing to one, is therefor not griefing to others.
    Though a good general definition is to harass people through actions, such as following the person, hindering him in his actions.
    In this specific case: thieving.

    Yeah, no. Thieving is part of the game and therefore can't possibly meet any proper definition of griefing. This reminds me of the Eve players who call it griefing when their internet spaceships get non-consentually asploded... in a game about non-consentually asploding internet spaceships.

    As for following someone in a virtual world meeting the standard, that's just bonkers.
    Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
    Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
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    DO NOT BUFF the guards!
    They're already immortal as it is.
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    The PVP justice system won't be griefing if the proper tools are implemented. Make it so you can actually stop them and give them a chance to pay the bounty and if they don't that is their choice. Remember we are talking about the same universe where stealing a sweet roll and killing a little chicken are death sentences in the eyes of the law.
    We are speaking ZoS here.
    You really even hope, this could be done? XD
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Will lead to griefing.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.
    Causing grief to others.
    Alltough it is generally used, this is prone to change from interpretation, from person to person.
    What is griefing to one, is therefor not griefing to others.
    Though a good general definition is to harass people through actions, such as following the person, hindering him in his actions.
    In this specific case: thieving.

    Yeah, no. Thieving is part of the game and therefore can't possibly meet any proper definition of griefing. This reminds me of the Eve players who call it griefing when their internet spaceships get non-consentually asploded... in a game about non-consentually asploding internet spaceships.

    As for following someone in a virtual world meeting the standard, that's just bonkers.
    Wow, did YOU get me wrong!!!
    I never said thieving is griefing, I said PvP-justice system will become griefing.
    Please try to read correctly.
    Volkodav wrote: »
    DO NOT BUFF the guards!
    They're already immortal as it is.
    Impossible, since every sot thinks he's a thief.
    There isn't 1 city not plaundered.
    Reason?
    Thievery is FAR too simple.
    Boost those guards.
    As is, it's geam breaking.
    Edited by dtm_samuraib16_ESO on May 26, 2016 6:22PM
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
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    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    The PVP justice system won't be griefing if the proper tools are implemented. Make it so you can actually stop them and give them a chance to pay the bounty and if they don't that is their choice. Remember we are talking about the same universe where stealing a sweet roll and killing a little chicken are death sentences in the eyes of the law.
    We are speaking ZoS here.
    You really even hope, this could be done? XD
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Will lead to griefing.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.
    Causing grief to others.
    Alltough it is generally used, this is prone to change from interpretation, from person to person.
    What is griefing to one, is therefor not griefing to others.
    Though a good general definition is to harass people through actions, such as following the person, hindering him in his actions.
    In this specific case: thieving.

    Yeah, no. Thieving is part of the game and therefore can't possibly meet any proper definition of griefing. This reminds me of the Eve players who call it griefing when their internet spaceships get non-consentually asploded... in a game about non-consentually asploding internet spaceships.

    As for following someone in a virtual world meeting the standard, that's just bonkers.
    Wow, did YOU get me wrong!!!
    I never said thieving is griefing, I said PvP-justice system will become griefing.
    Please try to read correctly.
    Volkodav wrote: »
    DO NOT BUFF the guards!
    They're already immortal as it is.
    Impossible, since every sot thinks he's a thief.
    There isn't 1 city not plaundered.
    Reason?
    Thievery is FAR too simple.
    Boost those guards.
    As is, it's geam breaking.

    Well,that's my opinion on immortal guards.As to it being game breaking as they are,..umm,..seems to me the game is going along just fine with them as they are.Always has been,..even if I hate immortal guards. XD
  • Whatzituyah
    Whatzituyah
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    Volkodav wrote: »
    DO NOT BUFF the guards!
    They're already immortal as it is.

    @Volkodav Well you can't nerf them either.
    https://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
    PSN: Whatzituyah
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
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    Whatzituyah wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    DO NOT BUFF the guards!
    They're already immortal as it is.

    @Volkodav Well you can't nerf them either.

    Fine. :) I can get away from them,so I dont need them nerfed.Though I have cried that out in a thread or two.Just for the fun of it.
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    Volkodav wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    The PVP justice system won't be griefing if the proper tools are implemented. Make it so you can actually stop them and give them a chance to pay the bounty and if they don't that is their choice. Remember we are talking about the same universe where stealing a sweet roll and killing a little chicken are death sentences in the eyes of the law.
    We are speaking ZoS here.
    You really even hope, this could be done? XD
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Will lead to griefing.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.
    Causing grief to others.
    Alltough it is generally used, this is prone to change from interpretation, from person to person.
    What is griefing to one, is therefor not griefing to others.
    Though a good general definition is to harass people through actions, such as following the person, hindering him in his actions.
    In this specific case: thieving.

    Yeah, no. Thieving is part of the game and therefore can't possibly meet any proper definition of griefing. This reminds me of the Eve players who call it griefing when their internet spaceships get non-consentually asploded... in a game about non-consentually asploding internet spaceships.

    As for following someone in a virtual world meeting the standard, that's just bonkers.
    Wow, did YOU get me wrong!!!
    I never said thieving is griefing, I said PvP-justice system will become griefing.
    Please try to read correctly.
    Volkodav wrote: »
    DO NOT BUFF the guards!
    They're already immortal as it is.
    Impossible, since every sot thinks he's a thief.
    There isn't 1 city not plaundered.
    Reason?
    Thievery is FAR too simple.
    Boost those guards.
    As is, it's geam breaking.

    Well,that's my opinion on immortal guards.As to it being game breaking as they are,..umm,..seems to me the game is going along just fine with them as they are.Always has been,..even if I hate immortal guards. XD
    Whether you like it or not: it's a fact it's game breaking as it is.
    It needs to be addressed.
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • Anhedonie
    Anhedonie
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    Guards really could use some kind of buff. Overpowered guards is a meme tradition of TES.
    Probably, the reason why players would be bad guards - easy to kill.
    Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.
  • C0wrex
    C0wrex
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    Addressed only by a PvP Justice system! We'll find the mechanics for it eventually. Optimism! :)
    "We are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek and not to yield."

    -Tennyson, Ulysses
  • nimander99
    nimander99
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    Yeah, cause the guards in the single player Scrolls games were everywhere and we could never steal anything...
    I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    ∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
    "Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
    "moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
    "MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
    "MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
    "MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???

    Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP450
  • Whatzituyah
    Whatzituyah
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    Speaking of guards I got one shotted by a guard and I didn't do anything but try to pickpocket said guard. I had alot of heat though with a high bounty so much that the whole thing was white. My guild says that could be determined by how much heat you have is that true or did the server just made the guard do it on the first hit?
    https://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
    PSN: Whatzituyah
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
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    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    The PVP justice system won't be griefing if the proper tools are implemented. Make it so you can actually stop them and give them a chance to pay the bounty and if they don't that is their choice. Remember we are talking about the same universe where stealing a sweet roll and killing a little chicken are death sentences in the eyes of the law.
    We are speaking ZoS here.
    You really even hope, this could be done? XD
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Will lead to griefing.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.
    Causing grief to others.
    Alltough it is generally used, this is prone to change from interpretation, from person to person.
    What is griefing to one, is therefor not griefing to others.
    Though a good general definition is to harass people through actions, such as following the person, hindering him in his actions.
    In this specific case: thieving.

    Yeah, no. Thieving is part of the game and therefore can't possibly meet any proper definition of griefing. This reminds me of the Eve players who call it griefing when their internet spaceships get non-consentually asploded... in a game about non-consentually asploding internet spaceships.

    As for following someone in a virtual world meeting the standard, that's just bonkers.
    Wow, did YOU get me wrong!!!
    I never said thieving is griefing, I said PvP-justice system will become griefing.
    Please try to read correctly.
    Volkodav wrote: »
    DO NOT BUFF the guards!
    They're already immortal as it is.
    Impossible, since every sot thinks he's a thief.
    There isn't 1 city not plaundered.
    Reason?
    Thievery is FAR too simple.
    Boost those guards.
    As is, it's geam breaking.

    Well,that's my opinion on immortal guards.As to it being game breaking as they are,..umm,..seems to me the game is going along just fine with them as they are.Always has been,..even if I hate immortal guards. XD
    Whether you like it or not: it's a fact it's game breaking as it is.
    It needs to be addressed.

    How did it break the game? I dont know about your game,but mine's just fine.I play it every day and it isnt broken.I am so sorry your doesnt work at all.
  • GivvumBoane
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    nimander99 wrote: »
    Yeah, cause the guards in the single player Scrolls games were everywhere and we could never steal anything...

    With the single player games specifically Oblivion, ( been years since I played Morrowind. Don't want to state something that may be incorrect) the guards operated on what can best be described as a hive mind. As soon as you were spotted, the guards knew. All of them, everywhere. Your only options were to pay or go to jail. If you set out to steal, it wasn't that hard. The majority of guard run ins were due to accidental thefts. Skyrim changed the entire system, bounty was set on a per hold basis. It was extremely easy to steal in that game. It's pretty bad when you can pickpocket a guard's clothes off his back and he is none the wiser. Maybe that arrow didn't hit him in the knee.
    Edited by GivvumBoane on May 27, 2016 6:50AM
    All hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.
  • SeptimusDova
    SeptimusDova
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    Why do we not have a Jail for the captured to go to? With the same items. One lockpick? In addition to the jail your cellmate is the Adoring Fan!!!
  • GivvumBoane
    GivvumBoane
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    SeptimusDova wrote: »
    Why do we not have a Jail for the captured to go to? With the same items. One lockpick? In addition to the jail your cellmate is the Adoring Fan!!!

    :D forgot about the adoring fan :D
    All hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    C0wrex wrote: »
    Addressed only by a PvP Justice system! We'll find the mechanics for it eventually. Optimism! :)
    We cannot have such a system, it will lead to griefing.
    nimander99 wrote: »
    Yeah, cause the guards in the single player Scrolls games were everywhere and we could never steal anything...
    And THAT was perfect, bring it back, make stealing virtually impossible.
    Fact still is: people make FAR more gold by thieving than with questing.
    Which brings me to that point of my other frikken topic: Questing is NOT REWARDING!!!
    C0wrex wrote: »
    Addressed only by a PvP Justice system! We'll find the mechanics for it eventually. Optimism! :)
    No, since griefing, as said above.
    Volkodav wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Volkodav wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    The PVP justice system won't be griefing if the proper tools are implemented. Make it so you can actually stop them and give them a chance to pay the bounty and if they don't that is their choice. Remember we are talking about the same universe where stealing a sweet roll and killing a little chicken are death sentences in the eyes of the law.
    We are speaking ZoS here.
    You really even hope, this could be done? XD
    rootimus wrote: »
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Will lead to griefing.

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.
    Causing grief to others.
    Alltough it is generally used, this is prone to change from interpretation, from person to person.
    What is griefing to one, is therefor not griefing to others.
    Though a good general definition is to harass people through actions, such as following the person, hindering him in his actions.
    In this specific case: thieving.

    Yeah, no. Thieving is part of the game and therefore can't possibly meet any proper definition of griefing. This reminds me of the Eve players who call it griefing when their internet spaceships get non-consentually asploded... in a game about non-consentually asploding internet spaceships.

    As for following someone in a virtual world meeting the standard, that's just bonkers.
    Wow, did YOU get me wrong!!!
    I never said thieving is griefing, I said PvP-justice system will become griefing.
    Please try to read correctly.
    Volkodav wrote: »
    DO NOT BUFF the guards!
    They're already immortal as it is.
    Impossible, since every sot thinks he's a thief.
    There isn't 1 city not plundered.
    Reason?
    Thievery is FAR too simple.
    Boost those guards.
    As is, it's geam breaking.

    Well,that's my opinion on immortal guards.As to it being game breaking as they are,..umm,..seems to me the game is going along just fine with them as they are.Always has been,..even if I hate immortal guards. XD
    Whether you like it or not: it's a fact it's game breaking as it is.
    It needs to be addressed.

    How did it break the game? I dont know about your game,but mine's just fine.I play it every day and it isnt broken.I am so sorry your doesnt work at all.
    Either you are being knowingly ignorant to get your way for getting the easiest income ever, you are trolling, or you actually miss the whole fact: thieving imbalances the income.
    It removes all and any form of quest reward feeling.
    One makes FAR more stealing for 30 minutes than questing for 3 hours.
    Really?
    For MANY people thieving is their BASE INCOME!!!
    THIS cannot be.
    Don't get me wrong, thieving needs to be lucrative, for frikken sure!, but it needs to be equally dangerous as the income is.
    And this simply is not.
    Result: Guards need a hefty boost.
    GivvumBoane wrote: »
    nimander99 wrote: »
    Yeah, cause the guards in the single player Scrolls games were everywhere and we could never steal anything...

    With the single player games specifically Oblivion, ( been years since I played Morrowind. Don't want to state something that may be incorrect) the guards operated on what can best be described as a hive mind. As soon as you were spotted, the guards knew. All of them, everywhere. Your only options were to pay or go to jail. If you set out to steal, it wasn't that hard. The majority of guard run ins were due to accidental thefts. Skyrim changed the entire system, bounty was set on a per hold basis. It was extremely easy to steal in that game. It's pretty bad when you can pickpocket a guard's clothes off his back and he is none the wiser. Maybe that arrow didn't hit him in the knee.
    Precisely: it hit him in the head.
    Guards are far too dumb.
    Well, all NPC's are, but that's not the topic.
    SeptimusDova wrote: »
    Why do we not have a Jail for the captured to go to? With the same items. One lockpick? In addition to the jail your cellmate is the Adoring Fan!!!
    If we introduce jail, then you should be totally undressed, completely stripped of EVERYTHING (returned to you upon completing jail time), with an unescapable jail.
    Why introduce a flawed system, so you can get even easier away with crime?
    What is the point in that?
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    Remember this post?
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/267246/eso-is-frustrating#latest
    It has DIRECT links with this topic: the income fact.
    Questing should be "the main income" (NOT speaking of trade in any form!!!), not thieving.
    Or, thieving, but with SERIOUS danger attached to it, so you will think twice before doing this.
    Edited by dtm_samuraib16_ESO on May 27, 2016 11:54AM
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • rootimus
    rootimus
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    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Wow, did YOU get me wrong!!!
    I never said thieving is griefing, I said PvP-justice system will become griefing.
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    What is griefing to one, is therefor not griefing to others.
    Though a good general definition is to harass people through actions, such as following the person, hindering him in his actions.
    In this specific case: thieving.

    My reading comprehension is fine.

    As for the now-abandoned PvP component that was supposed to be added to the justice system, that, too, fails to meet any reasonable definition of the word griefing. Furthermore, it's a waste of time even discussing this as Zenimax have clearly opted for the lazy option and completely given up on it. The one thing that would have made justice interesting has been deemed too much ~effort~.
    Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
    Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    But I am not speaking of this justice system, I was speaking of the guards being FAR to dumb, and blind.
    And the fact it is SO easy to get away from them.
    The whole's a joke, they might as well not have been there at all.

    As for this pvp thingy of you, trust me, it WILL run into griefing.
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • chaserstorm16909
    chaserstorm16909
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    Wollust wrote: »
    I think we need PvP justice system to help out these poor guards.

    :trollface:

    It will always be the dream.
  • arena25
    arena25
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    This is where I say "Beware, outlaws...once the PvP Justice System is implemented, the Crimson Sheriff comes for you."

    I think it's getting to the point where we need to implement the PvP justice system...and I can this go in an epic way...someone loots a high value stolen loot item, and it becomes a battle between enforcers and outlaws, with a lot of changes between outlaws and enforcers as each person tries to recover the item him/herself so they can get a huge gold piece purse.

    That would be epic. I would pay $50+ just to see a fight. I would pay $200 just to be IN the fight to recover the item.
    If you can't handle the heat...stay out of the kitchen!
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
    dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    chaserstorm16909 wrote: »
    Wollust wrote: »
    I think we need PvP justice system to help out these poor guards.

    :trollface:

    It will always be the dream.
    Thankfully.
    At least ONE choice of ZoS that's been thought through.
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • Xylphan
    Xylphan
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    dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »
    Remember this post?
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/267246/eso-is-frustrating#latest
    It has DIRECT links with this topic: the income fact.
    Questing should be "the main income" (NOT speaking of trade in any form!!!), not thieving.
    Or, thieving, but with SERIOUS danger attached to it, so you will think twice before doing this.

    Precisely. If you compare the risk/reward of questing vs. the risk/reward for thieving, anyone with handful of functioning brain cells figures out that robbing a city is far more lucrative at far less risk and is far less time consuming. Fencing 50 items is going to get you at least 2000 gold even at level 1. Everything else is just frosting on the cake, and you can run that in less than hour. Ramp up your thieving skills and you can get even more.

    How long would it take questing to return that? Quests give crap gold. They also don't give you much in the way of items either. Most of your items are going to come from pilfering boxes and baskets, and most of those items are going to be food mats. You can spend hours questing at low-mid levels and never get that much gold, even if you sold everything you got. It's a clear imbalance in the game, and one of the main reasons why you see so many "sneaks" running around the more lucrative cities. Once you know the routes (which takes all of a few minutes to figure out) you don't even need to sneak. You can just kill NPCs that attack you since you can easily get out of the city without being caught. Honestly you'll most likely earn enough off what you stole to make paying off the bounty a mere "cost of doing business". You'll still make far more off selling your ill-gotten goods than questing.

    It's not so much the guards needing a boost. It's the imbalance between crime rewards and questing rewards. Crime pays way too well with practically zero risk. So:

    1. Boost quest rewards to better reflect the risk and effort it takes to complete them.
    2. Reduce crime rewards to better reflect the risk and effort it takes to do it.
    3. Implement a system or set of systems that makes crime more difficult/punishing to bring it in line with it's rewards.
    4. Some combination of the 3.

    I'm all for 3, but that would take a while to implement. In the meantime, 1 or 2 could be implemented relatively easily.
  • chaserstorm16909
    chaserstorm16909
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    They should get a buff, but also become killable.
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