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Congrats to Sabre Ali!!
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Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »An MMA fighter or boxer tailors their entire training camp to specifically counter a particular fighter. Yet, no one detracts from the entertainment value or difficulty of those sports because the competitors prepare themselves. They know who they're fighting and what their strengths are. In ESO, If you know you're going to duel a certain person who is going to use certain tactics, why not prepare?
It seems those criticizing Sabre dislike that he prepares himself while they remain predictable. That's their fault, not Sabre's. And this strategy seems lame to you ... well dueling might not be for you. (I don't blame you. Duels in this game detracted away from what I enjoyed the most: random, frantic pvp.)
The difference being that fighters can't train in such a way as to make the other guys punches hurt less, or so that their punches always land. There is a difference in that ESO dueling is more rock - paper - scissors than a straight up fight. A magic sorc is going to lose almost all the time against shieldbreaker etc... It isn't a great analogy. A boxer doesn't suddenly get a whole new skill set and a whole new fighting style and a whole new level of strength and speed to counter his opponent. He can't suddenly take punches that would have knocked him out before. He is still the same boxer, but he will use a different strategy. To compare it to changing skills and CP is like saying that a boxer morphs into a completely different person depending who he is fighting which is obviously not the case.
Do you watch UFC? Great strikers go up against jiu jitsu practitioners and spend training camp training wrestling and jiu jitsu. Then the fight happens and you hear Joe Rogan yelling about how the striker "looks like a completely different fighter", took the jiu jitsu guy to the ground and submitted him.
Your post isn't wrong per se. I'm not saying that. But I have seen many times fighters become different fighters in different fights.
Most of the time a great striker will learn enough ground skills to not get submitted and keep the fight standing where they prefer to fight. The point is that these fighters still have to work with the physical talents they are given. They can't transform to the degree that you can in ESO by changing gear, skills and CP. That isn't even to mention how hard it is to do that in real life. That is months of hard work and dedication in real life. Most fighters can't reinvent themselves like you are saying. That is absolutely the exception. Most people can't break learned habits and skills and pick up new ones between every fight. In ESO, if you allow it, everyone can. It is as simples as a couple button clicks in game. Working with the skills, gear and CP you always have to form new strategies to combat your opponent is more analogous to real fighters than suddenly becoming the exact perfect counter to your opponent.
Edit: my main point is that in real life competitions you can try to become the perfect counter to you opponent, but that is hard to achieve. It takes a lot of effort and knowledge and study. In ESO the number of viable builds are small and their counters well know. It isn't an issue of trying, it is simply doing. Like I said before; ESO dueling is becoming much more of a rock-paper-scissors thing than a contest of real skill amongst the top tier players. This is why people don't want shieldbreaker, malubeth + major mending etc... Those things have no real counters. If you let someone change everything about their character but class and race each time they fight, then they are proving nothing but their meta game knowledge.Edited by Luigi_Vampa on May 23, 2016 8:32PMPC/EU DC1 -
PosternHouse✭✭✭✭Analogies only go so far. But the point it demonstrates is valid. Sure, a video game isn't as nuanced or chaotic as a sanctioned fight. (You actually can train your body to be more resilient by the way. My very first muay thai instructor had all of us bash our shins with kendo sticks for months until we could check kicks without pain or injury.) But fighters know ahead of time what they're going to be encountering and do their best to prepare accordingly. That's not cheap or lame, it's smart. If someone dueling in ESO knows someone is going to take a certain CP layout to counter their build, I think the appropriate responses are build adjustments and an counteractive CP point spread. It seems to me that Sabre just has his metagame on point and other people should get the memo.1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I see your point. All I'm really saying is that Sypher came here, congratulated Sabre but added an asterisk saying Sabre is known to change things up fight to fight and that's the reason he hates duels in ESO. It really means nothing because there is no evidence Sabre changed anything for this tournament.
I can see the point Sypher is making to a degree on a macro level. But on topic of this thread specifically, I can't convict Sabre in the courts of COVENANT law without evidence.
This thread should from this point on continue being about congratulating Sabre Ali.2 -
KisoValley✭✭✭✭✭PosternHouse wrote: »An MMA fighter or boxer tailors their entire training camp to specifically counter a particular fighter. Yet, no one detracts from the entertainment value or difficulty of those sports because the competitors prepare themselves. They know who they're fighting and what their strengths are. In ESO, If you know you're going to duel a certain person who is going to use certain tactics, why not prepare?
It seems those criticizing Sabre dislike that he prepares himself while they remain predictable. That's their fault, not Sabre's. And this strategy seems lame to you ... well dueling might not be for you. (I don't blame you. Duels in this game detracted away from what I enjoyed the most: random, frantic pvp.)
Right because an MMA fighter preparing for a fight and a stam build running shield breaker spamming light attacks vs a sorc where he can't do *** but watch himself die is the same thing.
I agree, it was the fault of whoever organized the tournament for not putting in rules. No shieldbreaker, no malubeths on classes with major mending, no cp changing, no gear changing, no skill changing etc. would mean none of this NA drama would happen.Edited by KisoValley on May 23, 2016 9:45PM1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KisoValley wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »An MMA fighter or boxer tailors their entire training camp to specifically counter a particular fighter. Yet, no one detracts from the entertainment value or difficulty of those sports because the competitors prepare themselves. They know who they're fighting and what their strengths are. In ESO, If you know you're going to duel a certain person who is going to use certain tactics, why not prepare?
It seems those criticizing Sabre dislike that he prepares himself while they remain predictable. That's their fault, not Sabre's. And this strategy seems lame to you ... well dueling might not be for you. (I don't blame you. Duels in this game detracted away from what I enjoyed the most: random, frantic pvp.)
Right because an MMA fighter preparing for a fight and a stam build running shield breaker spamming light attacks vs a sorc where he can't do *** but watch himself die is the same thing.
Point 1: I agree, it was the fault of whoever organized the tournament for not putting in rules. Point 2: No shieldbreaker, no malubeths on classes with major mending, no cp changing, no gear changing, no skill changing etc. would mean none of this NA drama would happen.
Point 1.) You are right. CEO's are always held responsible in the end. Sypher MUST step down from Legend and Lord Commander FENGRUSH take command.
Point 2.) Yes, but again, there is NO EVIDENCE Sabre did anything. Mostly fabricated drama.Edited by Publius_Scipio on May 23, 2016 10:07PM0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »
This thread should from this point on continue being about congratulating Sabre Ali.
Yeah, I think discussing analogies is a bit beyond the scope of this thread.
PC/EU DC3 -
Yoyuyi999✭✭✭✭lol, sabre literally changed his cp for half the fights. jordaen tested his damage on sabre before fights, almost all of his values were different each fight which is just one thing to confirm he changed cp.Edited by Yoyuyi999 on May 24, 2016 4:13PMCharacters:
Magicka Dragonknight, Yoyuyi
Stamina Dragonknight, -Jombo
Magicka Templar, -Dombo
Magicka Sorceror, -Mombo
Magicka Nightblade, -Wombo
Magicka Dragonknight, -Combo
~~~
Youtube
Twitch
~~~
Former GM of Mighty
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http://imgur.com/a/RWZZ77 -
LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gratz to Sabre for winning the tourney, I fought him a few times and he is definitely a strong player.Pretty sure most of NA enjoys the EU drama of LegMage vs Everyone else.
I already beat up pretty much everyone on EU who duels regularly so many times, I can't count. People will be hating for as long as they are playing, don't take it seriously - it's just pvp tears really...
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PrinceFabious✭✭✭✭✭
The proof is the fact that he said Jordaen.. If you have ever been in cyrodil trying to do an organized event. Chief will make sure to hit you with a WB before it begins lolololSleepyTroll wrote: »
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Yoyuyi999✭✭✭✭SleepyTroll wrote: »
I mean i really dont have proof for that specific moment, but i was there and so were a lot of others. Despite that, there's plenty of proof on syphers stream when he dueled sabre.PrinceFabious wrote: »
The proof is the fact that he said Jordaen.. If you have ever been in cyrodil trying to do an organized event. Chief will make sure to hit you with a WB before it begins lolololSleepyTroll wrote: »
Lolo truCharacters:
Magicka Dragonknight, Yoyuyi
Stamina Dragonknight, -Jombo
Magicka Templar, -Dombo
Magicka Sorceror, -Mombo
Magicka Nightblade, -Wombo
Magicka Dragonknight, -Combo
~~~
Youtube
Twitch
~~~
Former GM of Mighty
~~~
http://imgur.com/a/RWZZ70 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Skilled dueling would be getting queued into a 1v1 arena with no idea who your opponent is until the match begins.
With certain features being disabled, like changing CP.6 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭SleepyTroll wrote: »
Wait so no one *** about me in zone because I'm a piece of *** who begs for gold to do giveaways on stream? oh darn.
@Sypher has done more for the ESO community than you have. I would define that as relevant.
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KisoValley✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »KisoValley wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »An MMA fighter or boxer tailors their entire training camp to specifically counter a particular fighter. Yet, no one detracts from the entertainment value or difficulty of those sports because the competitors prepare themselves. They know who they're fighting and what their strengths are. In ESO, If you know you're going to duel a certain person who is going to use certain tactics, why not prepare?
It seems those criticizing Sabre dislike that he prepares himself while they remain predictable. That's their fault, not Sabre's. And this strategy seems lame to you ... well dueling might not be for you. (I don't blame you. Duels in this game detracted away from what I enjoyed the most: random, frantic pvp.)
Right because an MMA fighter preparing for a fight and a stam build running shield breaker spamming light attacks vs a sorc where he can't do *** but watch himself die is the same thing.
Point 1: I agree, it was the fault of whoever organized the tournament for not putting in rules. Point 2: No shieldbreaker, no malubeths on classes with major mending, no cp changing, no gear changing, no skill changing etc. would mean none of this NA drama would happen.
Point 1.) You are right. CEO's are always held responsible in the end. Sypher MUST step down from Legend and Lord Commander FENGRUSH take command.
Point 2.) Yes, but again, there is NO EVIDENCE Sabre did anything. Mostly fabricated drama.
Not saying he did it. I'm saying with those rules, which should be standard for a duel let alone a dueling tournament would mean none of this drama would happen.1 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KisoValley wrote: »Rofl @ NA drama.
Mythical didn't allow shieldbreaker, no malubeths on classes with major mending, no cp/skill changes and it ran as smooth as possible with no complaints after only 2 weekends ago or whenever their tournament was held (Only time skill changes were allowed was in Shey vs Malcolm Sorc vs Sorc semi finals, where Dusk made them fight without shields because the fight was never going to end otherwise).
Meanwhile I'm hearing the winner of this tournament won based off a cheese item set and changes CP/skills based on who he fights? Sick. Not surprised about the outcome of the tournament or the arguing lol.
NA dueling guilds should probably take a page from Mythicals book, and I'm not saying that just because I'm from EU, it would just cause a lot less drama and more accurate results instead of the winner unsurprisingly wearing shieldbreaker.
Grats to Sabre anyway, I know you're considered a top dueler so well played.
Simple rules, sexy gameplay.
Quick question: Do you guys over there even eat popcorn to fully enjoy our NA drama? Lol
We do. Especially with all the delicious salt here.
Pretty sure most of NA enjoys the EU drama of LegMage vs Everyone else.
Of course. EU is not short on drama either. SALT EVERYWHERESusano'o
Zerg Squad2 -
Lisbette✭✭✭You really can tell the men from the boys in this thread. The men congratulate Sabre on a job well done, the boys find excuses on why they lost.
FWIW the last Legend tourney (in which Sabre also won) was done when there was NO CP CAP. Sabre playing sparsely had around 200 CP at the time of the duel and beat out many duelers with 2-5 times the CP he had. Just food for thought.
-Tam Tam2 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭Wasnt saber the guy LoS and spamming SB on pts duels against Sypher?
And fighting a good sorc without SB on live is ***. They go panic mode at 50% health and healing ward/hardend spam until healing ward procs to resume. Real lame to fight against, and real lame because they get melted oherwise, like every other class0 -
KisoValley✭✭✭✭✭Wasnt saber the guy LoS and spamming SB on pts duels against Sypher?
And fighting a good sorc without SB on live is ***. They go panic mode at 50% health and healing ward/hardend spam until healing ward procs to resume. Real lame to fight against, and real lame because they get melted oherwise, like every other class
Seen plenty of good sorcs lose to non SB spammers in duels on PC EU. Not sure what happens on PC NA in duels vs good sorcs.Edited by KisoValley on May 24, 2016 2:17AM2 -
Tsar_Bogatyr✭✭✭KisoValley wrote: »Wasnt saber the guy LoS and spamming SB on pts duels against Sypher?
And fighting a good sorc without SB on live is ***. They go panic mode at 50% health and healing ward/hardend spam until healing ward procs to resume. Real lame to fight against, and real lame because they get melted oherwise, like every other class
Seen plenty of good sorcs lose to non SB spammers in duels on PC EU. Not sure what happens on PC NA in duels vs good sorcs.
btw, shieldbreaker isnt banned on eu, wasnt banned even on tournament1 -
SleepyTroll✭✭✭✭✭
✭SleepyTroll wrote: »
I mean i really dont have proof for that specific moment, but i was there and so were a lot of others. Despite that, there's plenty of proof on syphers stream when he dueled sabre.PrinceFabious wrote: »
The proof is the fact that he said Jordaen.. If you have ever been in cyrodil trying to do an organized event. Chief will make sure to hit you with a WB before it begins lolololSleepyTroll wrote: »
Lolo tru
Sabre allready said he did it on pts because he was testing on the test server. As far as the the tourney goes it is a classic he said she said.1 -
KisoValley✭✭✭✭✭Tsar_Bogatyr wrote: »KisoValley wrote: »Wasnt saber the guy LoS and spamming SB on pts duels against Sypher?
And fighting a good sorc without SB on live is ***. They go panic mode at 50% health and healing ward/hardend spam until healing ward procs to resume. Real lame to fight against, and real lame because they get melted oherwise, like every other class
Seen plenty of good sorcs lose to non SB spammers in duels on PC EU. Not sure what happens on PC NA in duels vs good sorcs.
btw, shieldbreaker isnt banned on eu, wasnt banned even on tournament
Almost certain it is because at my first duels with Mythical I got told to take it off, same way I got told to take Malubeths off when I was on my DK because I already had major mending. After Shey got SB spammed in the 2v2 tournament I'm 99% sure I saw it wasn't allowed in the rules on Mythicals message of the day when promoting the 1v1 tournament for like 2 weeks straight.
If I'm mistaken on SB, then it says a lot about how the stam players decided to not cheese their way to easy victories thanks to a broken set like Sabre has done lol.4 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lol, sabre literally changed his cp for half the fights. jordaen tested his damage on slaygod before fights, almost all of his values were different each fight which is just one thing to confirm he changed cp.
Haha, and if that;s all sabre did that would be probably ok.
I mean were not talking about a player on the up and up here.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »PosternHouse wrote: »An MMA fighter or boxer tailors their entire training camp to specifically counter a particular fighter. Yet, no one detracts from the entertainment value or difficulty of those sports because the competitors prepare themselves. They know who they're fighting and what their strengths are. In ESO, If you know you're going to duel a certain person who is going to use certain tactics, why not prepare?
It seems those criticizing Sabre dislike that he prepares himself while they remain predictable. That's their fault, not Sabre's. And this strategy seems lame to you ... well dueling might not be for you. (I don't blame you. Duels in this game detracted away from what I enjoyed the most: random, frantic pvp.)
This might be one of the most significant posts in this whole thread. Quite possibly sinking Sypher's battleship this time around. If not sunk, then definitely a huge gaping hole in the hull and water rushing in. Sometimes you have to concede defeat.
On top of that, it seems the EU players are much more smart by instating tournament rules. If Sabre did change CP and gear around, and there was no rule against it, can't fault him. Maybe those who fell to Sabre were the fools for not changing things up to stop Sabre. And if you agree there, then I can make the argument that a COVENANT SOLDIER outsmarted the elves and drunks and won! MAKE RULES PEOPLE!!!!
There where rules. and unspoken codes of conduct as well.
1.What you start dueling with, You stick with. No changes to anything.
2. No lightning staves
3. No exploiting
unspoken agreement among duelers : No immovables, no LOS, No perma stealthing and purposely prolonging the matches.
No lightning staves wat?
That´s something i´ve heared for the very first time.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shield breaker is a legit set, as legit as camping mines and spamming shields. A sorc who cannot defend himself vs shield breaker in a 1v1 doesn`t deserve any tournament win imo. It is close to impossible to kill a top level sorc when not running shield breaker as a balanced stam build (not min/maxing damage, i.e. offensive heavy setups)
EU dueling rules are onesided as hell and ignore some of the strongest offender (vmsa wpns, axes in particular) to meaningful outcomes. I mean, how can weapons that auto-apply bleeds which potentially make up 50%+ of the death recap be allowed but not shield breaker?Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy7 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭After all this time I still don't get the QQ about shieldbreaker.
Good Sorcs were always able to hold against it. I mean if you're not allowed to change gear, a stamina build using shield breaker will have a useless set bonus against players not using shields.
Shield breaker certainly helps in a fight against Sorcs, but a Sorc losing solely t the set didn't deserve a win anyway.
If you forbid shield breaker, also forbid mine camping. That tactic is even cheesier than the usage of shield breaker.R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -10 -
Iyas✭✭✭✭✭
✭The drama isnt enough. Thread is still open. An EU thread wont last longer than 2 pages!0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭Shieldbreaker is a great execute for a sorc. They are almost impossible to kill otherwise, unless you're a NB with stupid amounts of burst. But my super effective dk dots are negated completely by the shieldspam.2
This discussion has been closed.