Major Brutality - Make It More Accessible Please

DDuke

Current sources of Major Brutality:

Rally - 33s duration, can be cast any time, heal over time (instant heal on 2nd activation) or Forward Momentum, 33s duration, can be cast any time (8s snare/root immunity on activation) | 2H Exclusive

Critical Surge - 33s duration, can be cast any time, heals on critical hits | Sorcerer Exclusive

Igneous Weapons - 39,6s duration, can be cast any time, does nothing [ Dragonknight Exclusive

Flying Blade - 20s duration, requires you hit a target with it, flying projectile that deals dmg & snares | DW Exclusive

Power Extraction - 20s duration, requires you to hit a target with it at melee range, deals AoE damage [ NB Exclusive

---

If I play a stealthy character & I want to buff myself as Nightblade or Templar, I am forced to equip a 2H weapon for Rally, because every other option either pulls me out of stealth before I engage or is simply not available to my class.

Furthermore, if I play a bow build (not even a stealth oriented one), my only good choice is to equip a 2H weapon - why would you slot a ranged skill such as Flying Blade on Dual Wield bar, when the other bar (Bow) is full of those ranged skills?


I hope you see the problem here.
All the alternatives available to Templars & Nightblades have pre-requisites that make them unusable with many popular playstyles.


For magicka builds it is much simpler, they get Major Sorcery from Degeneration, which is not tied to any specific weapon skill line.


If I want to play an effective physical damage dealer, I do not want to be forced to equip a two-handed weapon.


One very simple solution would be adding Major Brutality to Evil Hunter (or Camouflaged Hunter), making it a viable alternative to Rally/Forward Momentum or Crit Surge.


This is not the first time I make a topic about this, and I'm just afraid it won't be the last.

@Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert

Kayrne

take a potion ...

DDuke

Kayrne wrote: »

take a potion ...

Not only is that extremely expensive, but also restricts you from using Major Vitality granting potions that keep you alive.

Not something that is a problem for 2H user.

Lynx7386

Personally, I would swap the major brutality and minor berserk on nightblades from power extraction / grim focus (and morphs).

This way, you could use grim focus / unrelenting focus / merciless resolve to gain major brutality, and it's a self buff that can be activated while stealthed. Power extraction would instead provide minor berserk (currently provided by grim focus and morphs) for an 8% damage increase. The minor berserk could also possibly be applied to sap essence as well so magicka builds still have access to it - it might even be nice to have the magicka version of focus provide major sorcery as well, and take that away from sap essence.

Templars are kinda screwed either way. They're one of only two classes that get major mending (and have a far better version of it than dragon knights), and they get the major prophecy/savagery which is something the other classes dont have access to through class skills. In light of that, I think it's fair that templars not have access to major brutality or sorcery via class skills.

If they want to add brutality/sorcery to temps, they need to remove the easy access to savagery/prophecy. If they made that change, I'd suggest adding major brutality and sorcery to the effects provided by either sun shield or rune focus.

DDuke

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Personally, I would swap the major brutality and minor berserk on nightblades from power extraction / grim focus (and morphs).

This way, you could use grim focus / unrelenting focus / merciless resolve to gain major brutality, and it's a self buff that can be activated while stealthed. Power extraction would instead provide minor berserk (currently provided by grim focus and morphs) for an 8% damage increase. The minor berserk could also possibly be applied to sap essence as well so magicka builds still have access to it.

Templars are kinda screwed either way. They're one of only two classes that get major mending (and have a far better version of it than dragon knights), and they get the major prophecy/savagery which is something the other classes dont have access to through class skills. In light of that, I think it's fair that templars not have access to major brutality or sorcery via class skills.

If they want to add brutality/sorcery to temps, they need to remove the easy access to savagery/prophecy. If they made that change, I'd suggest adding major brutality and sorcery to the effects provided by either sun shield or rune focus.

Well, that is one solution - I'm not sure what to think of it though. It would certainly make me use Power Extraction over Steel Tornado in PvP.

The problem with Templars is, at the moment they do get that Major Brutality by using 2H weapon. They don't lose anything by doing so, except build diversity - 2H is extremely strong & allows for big burst combos with Wrecking Blow+DBOS & one of the only instant heals available to stamina builds (or 8s snare/root immunity).

Meanwhile, anyone who wants access to more critical strike chance can slot Evil Hunter from Fighters Guild - regardless of which weapon they're using.

AfkNinja

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Personally, I would swap the major brutality and minor berserk on nightblades from power extraction / grim focus (and morphs).

This way, you could use grim focus / unrelenting focus / merciless resolve to gain major brutality, and it's a self buff that can be activated while stealthed. Power extraction would instead provide minor berserk (currently provided by grim focus and morphs) for an 8% damage increase. The minor berserk could also possibly be applied to sap essence as well so magicka builds still have access to it - it might even be nice to have the magicka version of focus provide major sorcery as well, and take that away from sap essence.

Templars are kinda screwed either way. They're one of only two classes that get major mending (and have a far better version of it than dragon knights), and they get the major prophecy/savagery which is something the other classes dont have access to through class skills. In light of that, I think it's fair that templars not have access to major brutality or sorcery via class skills.

If they want to add brutality/sorcery to temps, they need to remove the easy access to savagery/prophecy. If they made that change, I'd suggest adding major brutality and sorcery to the effects provided by either sun shield or rune focus.

I'd make that deal as Camo Hunter/Evil Hunter is awesome anyway. Would open up my 1hShield/Bow build quite nicely.

staracino_ESO

Yes; I do not like having a major buff/debuff on a main spam dps ability, anyways. They should rework all of the abilities that do this so that using more than one ability becomes more important for success.

Recremen

DDuke wrote: »

Current sources of Major Brutality:

Igneous Weapons - 39,6s duration, can be cast any time, DOES NOTHING [ Dragonknight Exclusive

Highlighted for emphasis. I still run the "magicka" morph on my stam DK because who the heck is passing up a unique 40% bonus on heavy attacks just for a group Major Brutality buff? Chumps is who. :-|

STEVIL

As Syndrome said "once everyone has major brutality, nobody has major brutality."
Syndrome from the Incredibles (I think)

yes, if you make multiple decisions that take all the various ways you CAN get MajBru off the table, then you can't get MajBru.

"Play as you want" doesn't mean "your choices dont matter bc everyone gets all the same stuff no mater what they choose."

Also, it is nowhere written or needed for everyone to have majbru. if you dont choose a style that gave you Majbru, then what did you get and how does that help you? go berserk, not brutal.

or, hey, lets give every char a 20% raise in damage for all types and drop both majbru and majsor since we want to set it up so everyone gets them no mater what path they choose.

if you get everything anyway no matter what you choose you are as irrelevant to the outcome as Indian Jones in Raiders.

"Why does it always have to be Major Brutality"
Indiana jones from Raiders (i think.)

Calboy

Get rid of major brutality/ sorcery. What's the point of such a mandatory buff?

Jar_Ek

Actually I think rather than make it available to all classes it should be way more restricted - maybe to sorcerers only.

ElliottXO

Calboy wrote: »

Get rid of major brutality/ sorcery. What's the point of such a mandatory buff?

Agree. They need to rework this and also major mending for healers.

Minor brutality 5%, major 10%.

Aspi90

ElliottXO wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Get rid of major brutality/ sorcery. What's the point of such a mandatory buff?

Agree. They need to rework this and also major mending for healers.

Minor brutality 5%, major 10%.

I am the same opinion. What is the point of a buff, when everyone is using it? No one is gonna miss out of the 20% more damage. And when everyone is using it (via Rally/Entropie) you can just remove it and everyone is happy cause they have one slot more and are not forced to use a 2h.

Or, as above said, make it more accesable.

Ashamray

+1 Remove mandatory buffs.
Change skills that require slotting on both panels. We have only 10+2 slots. We want them all active and unique.

Recremen

Aspi90 wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Get rid of major brutality/ sorcery. What's the point of such a mandatory buff?

Agree. They need to rework this and also major mending for healers.

Minor brutality 5%, major 10%.

I am the same opinion. What is the point of a buff, when everyone is using it? No one is gonna miss out of the 20% more damage. And when everyone is using it (via Rally/Entropie) you can just remove it and everyone is happy cause they have one slot more and are not forced to use a 2h.

Or, as above said, make it more accesable.

Nothing wrong with mandatory buffs so long as there's some kind of additional functionality to the skills and there's sufficient variety to the skills available. I'm totes in agreement that there is currently insufficient variety, however.

Lynx7386

Removing it will just cause everyone to find the next "mandatory" skill and this argument will begin anew.

Shelgon

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Removing it will just cause everyone to find the next "mandatory" skill and this argument will begin anew.

Possibly, but the only reason Major Brutality/Sorcery is mandatory is because 20% is a REALLY big number, something like 5% wouldn't have the same effect.

STEVIL

Shelgon wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Removing it will just cause everyone to find the next "mandatory" skill and this argument will begin anew.

Possibly, but the only reason Major Brutality/Sorcery is mandatory is because 20% is a REALLY big number, something like 5% wouldn't have the same effect.

uhhhh... really?

You dont follow the item traits threads much, huh?

The diff between even 1% is to some MAJOR MAJOR GAME BREAKING.

GreenSoup2HoT

I'd like to see a tweak to rally healing in general. It's too good.

Drain power should give you major brutality/sorcery on use. However this mean's other classes are still restricted to 2h for the buff.

Giving Major Brutality to Expert Hunter is a good idea but it already give's you Minor Beserk. Would you be fine with getting 2 damage buffs from one ability?

Many players have suggested move Rally over to fighter guild to make it universal with all weapon classes and give 2H a new ability. Such as that Tornado spin channel ability sewer bosses use.

Overall i think your suggestion is a good one. Many people have asked for it.

Lynx7386

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I'd like to see a tweak to rally healing in general. It's too good.

Considering stamina characters only have two heals in this game, and rally is one of them, I disagree.

They're trying to add more healing to other weapon lines, with the heal applied to bow's draining shot and the new flurry healing morph (and blood craze), so hopefully 2h wont be relied on quite so much for healing anymore.

Drain power should give you major brutality/sorcery on use. However this mean's other classes are still restricted to 2h for the buff.

As I said, they should swap the major brutality / sorcery on power extraction and sap essence with the minor berserk on grim focus and its morphs. Make one morph apply brutality (relentless focus) and the other apply sorcery. Power extraction can provide minor berserk on use.

The only other class that relies on 2h for the buff is templar, which also happens to have access to major mending, major savagery, and major prophecy. I think templars are fine without a class based brutality/sorcery buff, considering what else they have that other classes have no access to.

Giving Major Brutality to Expert Hunter is a good idea but it already give's you Minor Beserk. Would you be fine with getting 2 damage buffs from one ability?

Expert hunter and morphs grant major savagery while slotted, they dont need brutality added to it. They're meant to be an equivalent to magelight, and fill that role fine currently (with the DB changes).

Many players have suggested move Rally over to fighter guild to make it universal with all weapon classes and give 2H a new ability. Such as that Tornado spin channel ability sewer bosses use.

While I, being a 2h nb, wouldnt mind having a new attack, I dont think this is necessary at all. Rally is no longer a requirement for the buff, and hasnt been for some time. Healing is being added to other stamina weapon lines, and so rally is no longer required for the heal.

Leave it be.

OrphanHelgen

Igneous Weapons - 39,6s duration, can be cast any time, does nothing..

..


Here is what igneous weapons give:

Major sorcery to team
Major brutality to team
Minor brutality to team
3 ultimate
5% stamina back

timidobserver

5 piece dreugh king = perma major brutality next update.

GreenSoup2HoT

Leave it be.

@Lynx7386

This is the problem. I personally do not want to leave it be. Rally need's to be tweaked. It's literally a must have skill and it sicken's me. Stamina has to use two handed because of this crutch heal/buff.

It's about time we got percentage's tweaks to skill's. Just like what happened to Teleport strike and Death Stroke in pts 2.4.3 patch notes.

Sure Flurry heal and draining shot heal are nice but it won't change anything. Which is why Rally's burst heal specifically should be toned down so it's not so reliable.

Overall, when it come's down to it, it's Rally that is over-performing and over-shadow's all other weapon class heals/buff's. It's the sole reason why OP is having this argument. Regardless of your build on a stamina user, 2h with Rally must be present and that in my opinion is the problem.

DDuke

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Igneous Weapons - 39,6s duration, can be cast any time, does nothing..

..


Here is what igneous weapons give:

Major sorcery to team
Major brutality to team
Minor brutality to team
3 ultimate
5% stamina back

What it actually does:

Major sorcery to team team has Major Sorcery from Degeneration, Sap Essence or Molten Armaments already (or potions if talking about PvE)
Major brutality to team team has Major Brutality from Rally or Crit Surge already (or potions if talking about PvE)
Minor brutality to team team already has Minor Brutality from the more useful Igneous Shield, Fossilize, Eruption, Stonefist you casted (see above)
3 ultimate you already got the 3 ultimate from the more useful Igneous Shield, Fossilize, Eruption, Stonefist you casted (see above)
5% stamina back you already got 5% stamina back from the cheaper Igneous Shield, Fossilize, Eruption, Stonefist you casted

---

Another solution that could somewhat help with the situation is adding Major Brutality to Blade Cloak (and morphs). This self buff is so specific currently that it rarely sees use anywhere. Adding Major Brutality to it (and making it not break stealth when cast like it currently does) would add an interesting alternative to Rally that doesn't have any of the pre-requisites (e.g. having to hit a target) that make current existing alternatives unviable.

Bow/S&B & Bow/Bow builds would still be SOL though when it comes to buffing their damage.

GreenSoup2HoT

@DDuke

Another solution that could somewhat help with the situation is adding Major Brutality to Blade Cloak (and morphs). This self buff is so specific currently that it rarely sees use anywhere. Adding Major Brutality to it (and making it not break stealth when cast like it currently does) would add an interesting alternative to Rally that doesn't have any of the pre-requisites (e.g. having to hit a target) that make current existing alternatives unviable.

This should have happened age's ago when Imperial City DLC came out. Instead of Hidden Blade getting Major Brutality it should have been Blade Cloak.

I personally use Blade Cloak since we live in a magicka det / VD meta. The speed Quick Cloak grant's is great too since i don't use a Bow for Hasty Retreat. The damage it deal's should be removed and grant Minor Evasion or something else. The damage it deal's is laughable and pretty much worthless.

Personally i could really care less about the ability working in stealth. The new alliance war potion's that give you major brutality tied in with clever alchemist is how i gank anyways... but an alternative to Rally would be very nice. Not saying i disagree though. If Blade Cloak was cast-able from stealth, i could use a variety of potion's instead of being sucked into one type of potion.

Lynx7386

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Leave it be.

@Lynx7386

This is the problem. I personally do not want to leave it be. Rally need's to be tweaked. It's literally a must have skill and it sicken's me. Stamina has to use two handed because of this crutch heal/buff.

It's about time we got percentage's tweaks to skill's. Just like what happened to Teleport strike and Death Stroke in pts 2.4.3 patch notes.

Sure Flurry heal and draining shot heal are nice but it won't change anything. Which is why Rally's burst heal specifically should be toned down so it's not so reliable.

Overall, when it come's down to it, it's Rally that is over-performing and over-shadow's all other weapon class heals/buff's. It's the sole reason why OP is having this argument. Regardless of your build on a stamina user, 2h with Rally must be present and that in my opinion is the problem.

No, the problem is that you people are stuck on rally. An identical skill could be put in every other weapon line and you would still have this misconception that rally is necessary. Turn off the tunnel vision already

Recremen

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Igneous Weapons - 39,6s duration, can be cast any time, does nothing..

..


Here is what igneous weapons give:

Major sorcery to team
Major brutality to team
Minor brutality to team
3 ultimate
5% stamina back

If someone on your team is relying on the DK for their sorcery or brutality then they need to go through Build Camp or something because every self-buff option available has fantastic additional effects.

Ep1kMalware

You can run around cold harbor for 20 minutes and gather the mats to make potions that both heal and buff. Every class, and 2/3 weapon skill lines have this available. I had to perform some incredible mental gymnastics to see this from your point of view, and even then it doesn't hold any water.

Recremen

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Leave it be.

@Lynx7386

This is the problem. I personally do not want to leave it be. Rally need's to be tweaked. It's literally a must have skill and it sicken's me. Stamina has to use two handed because of this crutch heal/buff.

It's about time we got percentage's tweaks to skill's. Just like what happened to Teleport strike and Death Stroke in pts 2.4.3 patch notes.

Sure Flurry heal and draining shot heal are nice but it won't change anything. Which is why Rally's burst heal specifically should be toned down so it's not so reliable.

Overall, when it come's down to it, it's Rally that is over-performing and over-shadow's all other weapon class heals/buff's. It's the sole reason why OP is having this argument. Regardless of your build on a stamina user, 2h with Rally must be present and that in my opinion is the problem.

Rally is honestly way overrated compared to Forward Momentum, and that's before the PTS buff. Everyone complaining about bombard spam is clearly not using the superior morph of that skill, IMHO.

Tannus15

timidobserver wrote: »

5 piece dreugh king = perma major brutality next update.

This is really cool, except you're running at least 3 heavy, maybe 4 if you're not using the 2-h sword. And if you'e using the 2-h sword then you've got Rally anyway.

So it's a really cool set for anyone thinking about doing a heavy armour dps build...

GreenSoup2HoT

Lynx7386 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Leave it be.

@Lynx7386

This is the problem. I personally do not want to leave it be. Rally need's to be tweaked. It's literally a must have skill and it sicken's me. Stamina has to use two handed because of this crutch heal/buff.

It's about time we got percentage's tweaks to skill's. Just like what happened to Teleport strike and Death Stroke in pts 2.4.3 patch notes.

Sure Flurry heal and draining shot heal are nice but it won't change anything. Which is why Rally's burst heal specifically should be toned down so it's not so reliable.

Overall, when it come's down to it, it's Rally that is over-performing and over-shadow's all other weapon class heals/buff's. It's the sole reason why OP is having this argument. Regardless of your build on a stamina user, 2h with Rally must be present and that in my opinion is the problem.

No, the problem is that you people are stuck on rally. An identical skill could be put in every other weapon line and you would still have this misconception that rally is necessary. Turn off the tunnel vision already

"You people". What's that suppose to mean? I'll i'm stating is Rally is over-performing. There's nothing wrong with criticism about a specific ability. It's not hard to see this ability is too good to pass up on.

Tunnel vision? Like all stam build's these day's using rally? Sure there are other alternative's but that will not change the fact, to be competitive you are going to use Rally. Just like how players in cryodill use Magicka Det and Vicious Death.

The point of this thread is to close the gap in competitiveness between stamina build's with Rally and without because in almost every circumstance, the player using Rally win's.

Player's like me, like balance. When i mention something need's to be looked at, it's with a fine touch. Not the nerf bat.


@Recremen I use Forward Momentum as well. It work's best with Double Take so i have speed in stealth and still an option to get away from snares with the added benefit of immobilizes. Looking forward to the buff it's getting in DB, 3.5 seconds to 8 seconds is very nice. People don't realize how cheap the ability is compared to Shuffle or Rapid Maneuver's, which is why it's so good.