Can we get a class change since sorcs are dead next patch?

NativeJoe

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

And the dps of everyone else in that fight?
Be buffed by an entire raid group is one thing... I've seen 4 man groups with a NB's pulling 15k higher dps then that.
he also is not shielding at all "had to cut his shield to increase his dps" which sometimes just isn't possible in some content because we lack other classes mitigation techniques.
He's literally running 6 attacks, with innerlight and bound armor.
No self buffs/group buffs, wearing molag kena and x5 piece twice born.

It's all glass cannon, and completely dependent on others for support, and not a realistic scenerio in the least for judging a class.

What would a Nb, dk, or templar get from their builds if they went glass cannon all in it for themselves? I know other classes can achieve higher numbers without sacrificing everything for damage spamming.

SirAndy

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have literally nothing left to be good at that other classes can't do better so can you guys at zenimax just put the class out of it's misery and delete it and let sorc players choose another class?

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

DDuke

NativeJoe wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

And the dps of everyone else in that fight?
Be buffed by an entire raid group is one thing... I've seen 4 man groups with a NB's pulling 15k higher dps then that.
he also is not shielding at all "had to cut his shield to increase his dps" which sometimes just isn't possible in some content because we lack other classes mitigation techniques.
He's literally running 6 attacks, with innerlight and bound armor.
No self buffs/group buffs, wearing molag kena and x5 piece twice born.

It's all glass cannon, and completely dependent on others for support, and not a realistic scenerio in the least for judging a class.

What would a Nb, dk, or templar get from their builds if they went glass cannon all in it for themselves? I know other classes can achieve higher numbers without sacrificing everything for damage spamming.

You've seen 4-man groups pull 55k DPS avg at second bosses in vMoL? I'd be interested in seeing proof of that.

Also, if you're running shields in group content and not tanking anything, you're doing something seriously wrong.

This is DPS in the current highest difficulty content, you don't run pug setups there - save those for Spindleclutch or whatever have you.

Mojmir

lol no,suffer like templars.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

SirAndy wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have literally nothing left to be good at that other classes can't do better so can you guys at zenimax just put the class out of it's misery and delete it and let sorc players choose another class?

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Just being a realist, all other classes do more dps, have better migation, group utility and healing, they can tank better too. So really, except for having the most toggles in the entire game, what are they really good for that another class can't do better?

Lava_Croft

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

So 39.3k while doing nothing at all in utility for the group? I'd still say other classes are better since they got some kind of utility to help the group out while doing pretty much the same amount of dps.

So all in all, the DPS isn't really the problem even though you and many others do nothing but complain about the DPS.

Problem now is group utility? So the whining about DPS will be over?

DDuke

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have literally nothing left to be good at that other classes can't do better so can you guys at zenimax just put the class out of it's misery and delete it and let sorc players choose another class?

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Just being a realist, all other classes do more dps, have better migation, group utility and healing, they can tank better too. So really, except for having the most toggles in the entire game, what are they really good for that another class can't do better?

Show me stamina nightblade or stamina sorcerer doing 40k at vMoL 2nd bosses, or stop talking rubbish.

Grao

NativeJoe wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

And the dps of everyone else in that fight?
Be buffed by an entire raid group is one thing... I've seen 4 man groups with a NB's pulling 15k higher dps then that.
he also is not shielding at all "had to cut his shield to increase his dps" which sometimes just isn't possible in some content because we lack other classes mitigation techniques.
He's literally running 6 attacks, with innerlight and bound armor.
No self buffs/group buffs, wearing molag kena and x5 piece twice born.

It's all glass cannon, and completely dependent on others for support, and not a realistic scenerio in the least for judging a class.

What would a Nb, dk, or templar get from their builds if they went glass cannon all in it for themselves? I know other classes can achieve higher numbers without sacrificing everything for damage spamming.

Ding Ding Ding

Grao

DDuke wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

So 39.3k while doing nothing at all in utility for the group? I'd still say other classes are better since they got some kind of utility to help the group out while doing pretty much the same amount of dps.

The zero utility (and dps ) stamina nightblade would like to say hi (stam sorcs are even worse off atm).

You'd be lucky to hit 30k at that boss (well, bosses) as a stamblade.

I am sorry, you always have Veil and that is always useful. If you don't have Veil that is your mistake there. Sorcerers as a class have nearly no utility that is actually useful as Negate was bashed to really small pieces a couple of patches back. I have some hopes this new buffs will be enough of a significant improvement to return some utility to the class, but I haven't been able to perform extensive tests.

DDuke

Grao wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

So 39.3k while doing nothing at all in utility for the group? I'd still say other classes are better since they got some kind of utility to help the group out while doing pretty much the same amount of dps.

The zero utility (and dps ) stamina nightblade would like to say hi (stam sorcs are even worse off atm).

You'd be lucky to hit 30k at that boss (well, bosses) as a stamblade.

I am sorry, you always have Veil and that is always useful. If you don't have Veil that is your mistake there. Sorcerers as a class have nearly no utility that is actually useful as Negate was bashed to really small pieces a couple of patches back. I have some hopes this new buffs will be enough of a significant improvement to return some utility to the class, but I haven't been able to perform extensive tests.

You don't use veil if you want to do good DPS (on stamblade standards...) as stamblade, you use Shooting Star.

I'd like to use veil though, that's why I made this suggestion on the Nightblade feedback thread:

Veil of Blades

Make this a Physical (or Poison/Disease) Damage dealing morph, so stamina nightblades have another option outside Ice Comet/Shooting Star as their offensive ultimate.

This will not increase the burst damage of stamblades & will help their highly sub-par DPS in PvE. Note: I am aware that it is sometimes used in Trials to help survive some mechanics. Making this a Physical Damage dealing ultimate would also perhaps provide Bow using NBs a nice area denial, which is what bow builds sorely lack at the moment.

Optional: increase the radius too by a little.

This would not affect magicka nightblades too much, because they're already using Ice Comet/Shooting Star as well as damaging ultimate, and Veil of Blades rarely sees use in PvP (Soul Tether & Soul Harvest are the go-to ultimates there).

Bolstering Darkness could remain as the tanking ultimate.


Another option: give the Nightblade using the ultimate invisibility while within the Veil of Blades, similar to Batswarm. This would also make it more appealing thanks to the bonus damage you get while in stealth/invisible. In PvP, it could be countered by throwing AoE at the Veil, or shooting a Flare there. Also, you'd only have the invisibility within the circle.

You have atronach as sorcs, which you can drop for a +25% damage buff to people synergizing it. Sadly, it's also a DPS loss to use it from what I've heard.

dodgehopper_ESO

Just stick with it. Nightblades did, and they were certainly disadvantaged early on (but I knew they'd one day be awesome, based on their general design philosophy). Templars have been through the ringer as well. Pay your dues, stick with your character if you like it, eventually it will get sorted. There's only 4 classes, and 12 specs if you consider the basic: Magic, Stamina, And Tank design philosophies. It isn't that much for them to sort out. It may take a little while, but honestly be patient. You have time to make something different in the interim which is good anyway in an MMO like this. There's a reason I built a v16 of each class.

Grao

Doncellius wrote: »

I play every class.

Comparing all of them to each other, along with lots of theorycrafting toward Sorcerer builds..... It's actually really bad atm. Not to mention shieldspam every 6 seconds is unfun and will cause most Magicka Sorcerers to reroll.

Sorcs don't have many ways to build themselves. They already have few viable build options.

Not sure if it's an oversight, but Conjured Ward is what keeps Pets alive for Pet Sorcs (the ONE other unique Sorc playstyle possible). With the duration nerf, Pet Sorcs wil notice the Wards collapse immediately before the damage decides hit and it'll become impossible to manage without constantly spamming Conjured Ward.

All Sorc builds get a heavy nerf, but moreso those which were never considered strong. Meanwhile, my PvP Sorc will mainly gain more defense vs Physical damage while only being more susceptible to ganking when mounted.

You can list out the exact gear/skill setup of any given Magicka Sorc now due to the tiny amount of viability anything besides the cookie cutter Sorc layouts have.

I just struggle to understand why my DK, Templar, and NB can do so many different things and remain very powerful, yet my Sorc cannot do this.

EDIT: In terms of PvE DPS.... that annoying, buggy Overload is the only reason for that "40K" DPS. Personally, I think it should be reworked entirely and Sorc should have other options to achieve high DPS.

TLDR: Pick any other class besides Sorcerer. You simply will not have fun playing one anymore.

And thus my suggestion to make so that Ward not only shields the pet, but also heals them for a good amount. That coupled with an increase in pet health would considerably improve the pet play style as you'd actually need to pay attention to your pet's health and heal it from time to time. It would also encourage using the Tormentor leaving Matriarch for utility builds and healer builds.

Giving sorcerers as Spammable ability to replace Useless Exchange (I renamed Dark Exchange) would give us extra sustain and an entire new play style, not to mention unlock us from needing to have a Destro Staff for our main weapon. One melee morph that does more damage, one ranged morph that returns a percent of the damage done as Magicka (for those that know TESO lore, sorcerers are known for draining Magicka from enemies, so this fits. It also fits the original intention of this skill, to exchange something for more power or fuel.)

Spamming this ability would activate Blood Magic witch would take care of some sustain issues introduced by the nerf to Surge. It would heal about 1000 health per attack, which is not amazing, but it is okish. The ability could have an additional sustain condition if this numbers proved insufficient.

The existence of such skill would also buff Overload allowing sustained DPS with that ultimate to show its true potential. Currently extended fights with Overload can be a loss of DPS< specially if the Ult bugs as it tend to do after repetitive light attack spamming. Having a skill that we can weave with the empowered light attacks would feel awesome.

You are likely right about PvP sorcerers as Annulment was made more powerful and a good player will be able to shield them selves when they need to with an even more powerful bubble than before. Only surprise attacks will get to us...

Grao

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

You really think 39 K is the best DPS in this game? Ok...

Well, I've been saying sorcerers can pull up to 40k so your video doesn't change my opinions at all or arguments. That is still bellow what the best players of other classes can pull with their characters. Considerably bellow actually as their DPS ranges from 45k to 55 k DPS depending on buffs and how focused they are in being a glass cannon.

Couple that with the fact Sorcerers have the worse utility of all classes and are often asked to run Warhorn, Barrier and Meteor because their class ultimates are horrible for group content and you get a class that has no appeal for raid leaders in competitive play.

Grao

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

So 39.3k while doing nothing at all in utility for the group? I'd still say other classes are better since they got some kind of utility to help the group out while doing pretty much the same amount of dps.

The zero utility (and dps ) stamina nightblade would like to say hi (stam sorcs are even worse off atm).

You'd be lucky to hit 30k at that boss (well, bosses) as a stamblade.

I am sorry, you always have Veil and that is always useful. If you don't have Veil that is your mistake there. Sorcerers as a class have nearly no utility that is actually useful as Negate was bashed to really small pieces a couple of patches back. I have some hopes this new buffs will be enough of a significant improvement to return some utility to the class, but I haven't been able to perform extensive tests.

You don't use veil if you want to do good DPS (on stamblade standards...) as stamblade, you use Shooting Star.

I'd like to use veil though, that's why I made this suggestion on the Nightblade feedback thread:

Veil of Blades

Make this a Physical (or Poison/Disease) Damage dealing morph, so stamina nightblades have another option outside Ice Comet/Shooting Star as their offensive ultimate.

This will not increase the burst damage of stamblades & will help their highly sub-par DPS in PvE. Note: I am aware that it is sometimes used in Trials to help survive some mechanics. Making this a Physical Damage dealing ultimate would also perhaps provide Bow using NBs a nice area denial, which is what bow builds sorely lack at the moment.

Optional: increase the radius too by a little.

This would not affect magicka nightblades too much, because they're already using Ice Comet/Shooting Star as well as damaging ultimate, and Veil of Blades rarely sees use in PvP (Soul Tether & Soul Harvest are the go-to ultimates there).

Bolstering Darkness could remain as the tanking ultimate.


Another option: give the Nightblade using the ultimate invisibility while within the Veil of Blades, similar to Batswarm. This would also make it more appealing thanks to the bonus damage you get while in stealth/invisible. In PvP, it could be countered by throwing AoE at the Veil, or shooting a Flare there. Also, you'd only have the invisibility within the circle.

You have atronach as sorcs, which you can drop for a +25% damage buff to people synergizing it. Sadly, it's also a DPS loss to use it from what I've heard.

You were talking utility, NBs have an excellent Utility Ultimate that is NEEDED in every raid group no matter what. The fact NBs have Veil is enough reason to bring nightblades into a group.

Sorcerers have nothing. Negate was negated a few patches back and really? Atronach? Our worse Ultimate even if you have a full set pet build? Its DPS is not good enough, its buff applies to only one person and it doesn't benefit the sorcerer... 25% damage to one guy is not utility for a raid... It is a buff to one random dude that clicks the synergy button. By the way, since you have to drop it in melee range of the boss or very close range it often happen of the tank synergising with it.

Grao

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Just stick with it. Nightblades did, and they were certainly disadvantaged early on (but I knew they'd one day be awesome, based on their general design philosophy). Templars have been through the ringer as well. Pay your dues, stick with your character if you like it, eventually it will get sorted. There's only 4 classes, and 12 specs if you consider the basic: Magic, Stamina, And Tank design philosophies. It isn't that much for them to sort out. It may take a little while, but honestly be patient. You have time to make something different in the interim which is good anyway in an MMO like this. There's a reason I built a v16 of each class.

Yes, NIghtblades were in a horrible spot early. But you guys were still needed in raid groups because of Veil. There is no reason to bring a sorc to end game PvE... We have poor DPS, not Utility, we are the worse class for tanking and our heals rely on a pet surviving... Guess what? It never survives...

SanTii.92

Grao wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

You really think 39 K is the best DPS in this game? Ok...

No one said that, we all know stam dks are top dog, but saying mag Sorcs are 'dead' when you are actually 4th out of 8 in the dps chain is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Grao

sAnn92 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

You really think 39 K is the best DPS in this game? Ok...

No one said that, we all know stam dks are top dog, but saying mag Sorcs are 'dead' when you are actually 4th out of 8 in the dps chain is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

You compare DPS among compatible builds. Magicka DPS compared to Magicka DPS. Then again, I am all for stamina builds getting buffs and they are getting those. At the same time, sorcerers, particularly magicka sorcerers are only seeing nerfs.

Classes that were always excellent as tanks and healers are now also the best in DPS. How is that balanced at all? It isn't Every class should shine on something and I will tell you, Magicka sorcerers shine at nothing, we are bad tanks, bad DPS, bad utility, heals that die.

By the way, stamina sorcerers are also the bottom of the Stamina DPS pyramid.

DDuke

Grao wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

The good sorcs have been sticking with the class and have watched its 2 years long agonizing march to death. It is finally here, it is called the Dark Brotherhood.

I guess that why shieldstacking sorcs are so OP that were forced to play without any shields in EU tournament.

Again, you are talking about PvP, not PvE. That is only half of the game, half of the story and thus a very narrow vision.

Yes, sorcerers have good burst and they had good survivability with their shields in PvP, but in PvE we have worst DPS registered, near to no utility for a raid, we can't heal efficiently and we can't tank nearly as well as other classes. That is the sorcerer reality, not some colored version of a competition in Europe which happened before all this nerfs hit this already agonizing class.

Worst DPS registered, yeah... right

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4

You really think 39 K is the best DPS in this game? Ok...

Well, I've been saying sorcerers can pull up to 40k so your video doesn't change my opinions at all or arguments. That is still bellow what the best players of other classes can pull with their characters. Considerably bellow actually as their DPS ranges from 45k to 55 k DPS depending on buffs and how focused they are in being a glass cannon.

Couple that with the fact Sorcerers have the worse utility of all classes and are often asked to run Warhorn, Barrier and Meteor because their class ultimates are horrible for group content and you get a class that has no appeal for raid leaders in competitive play.

No, who says it's the best in this game? Stam DKs can pull off close to 50k DPS at Rakkhat.

I'm saying it's better than stamina nightblades & stamina sorcerers for sure, since those are lucky to get even 30k DPS.

Also, I've never seen a video of someone pulling 55k in vMoL boss fights. Maybe you'd like to link a video to prove your point?


Or are you talking about 55k in Spindleclutch? You can leave those noob dungeons straight out of all talk of PvE DPS.

Also, every DPS in end game PvE (talking of vMoL, not vet dungeons) is a glass cannon, every single one. You are focused on maximizing your DPS - this requires sacrificing as much defense as possible, without having unavoidable mechanics instagib you.

iam117

Grao wrote: »

You really think 39 K is the best DPS in this game? Ok...

Well, I've been saying sorcerers can pull up to 40k so your video doesn't change my opinions at all or arguments. That is still bellow what the best players of other classes can pull with their characters. Considerably bellow actually as their DPS ranges from 45k to 55 k DPS depending on buffs and how focused they are in being a glass cannon.

Couple that with the fact Sorcerers have the worse utility of all classes and are often asked to run Warhorn, Barrier and Meteor because their class ultimates are horrible for group content and you get a class that has no appeal for raid leaders in competitive play.

your missing the point, just like you missed mine earlier. his comment is likely specific to that fight/vmol. that is a great parse for that fight. please post up actual parses of people who are gettting 45-55k dps on THAT fight. or do you not run that content? who gets super duper op dps when they dont go all into their build? every dps build in order to achieve high numbers, has to have every skill filled in order to do it in pve. without a shield. every magicka build that is dps focused for the most part uses meteor, its a great skill available to all classes, its not the dps's job to run mitigation. your playing with the wrong groups if they are asking you to slot mitigation instead of damage.

no one has said 39k is the best in the game, its not. the highest sustained dps currently is sitting somewhere around 45k+/-. sure burst can get higher (under 1min), well and overload sorc can get over 45k on plenty of boss fights in the game, so im unsure where you think they can only do 40k with overload?

yeah sorcs have bad utility, and ultimates, yeah they need more utility and ultis need buffed, but running meteor shouldnt be a downfall for you, it actually nets basically every magicka build more dps, not just sorcs.

your comparing apples to oranges, have you been in vmol? you cant see a sub 40k parse there and say it is not good because the fight lasted more than 60 seconds. what are you getting in 5+ minute fights?

#itsthepuglife

Grao

You guys seem to be completely misunderstanding me. I am not ever saying Magicka sorcerers are the worse, I am saying sorcerers as a whole are the worse class in the game. Every other class has a role they play in which they are pretty much the best or at least not the worse, all except sorcerers.

We are the worse Tanks, specially with changes to Ward.
We are the worse healers as maintaining our healer pet alive was already nearly impossible before the changes to Ward.
We are the lowest of the Magicka DPS, even when using Overload.
We are the lowest Stamina DPS and will likely remain so even with this buffs.
We are the worse class when it comes to group utility.

How is that balanced? How can you argue that is not simply bad design?

I am not saying other classes don't need buffs on certain areas to be competitive in those areas, I am saying that the other classes have strong points in which they exceed. In which they are great. In which they are needed. Sorcerer don't have that.

dodgehopper_ESO

I thought they were improving Negate this patch? Negate use to be a staple for me in Cyrodiil, and I know they mucked it up a good while ago. I'm hopeful the improvements they're looking at for this skill will start to take hold. You make a good point about the pets, particularly where there is the cast time involved and their short lifespans. I suggest you not give up on the class, the Sorcerer might well be in a goofy phase, but I'm pretty sure it will get sorted eventually. Just give constructive feedback.

Grao

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I thought they were improving Negate this patch? Negate use to be a staple for me in Cyrodiil, and I know they mucked it up a good while ago. I'm hopeful the improvements they're looking at for this skill will start to take hold. You make a good point about the pets, particularly where there is the cast time involved and their short lifespans. I suggest you not give up on the class, the Sorcerer might well be in a goofy phase, but I'm pretty sure it will get sorted eventually. Just give constructive feedback.

Yes, they buffed Negate so I am holding back on bashing that particular ultimate for now until I am able to run Raid tests with it. One of the new morphs heals those within and the other damages enemies within. I am particularly interested in the healing version and if it comes even close to Nova it should be what the sorcerers need in ways of Utility Ultimate.

As for constructive feedback, I've been doing that for several patches. I made an extensive analyses of every sorcerer ability proposing certain changes in the Sorcerer Official feedback thread a couple of weeks ago, unfortunately it is clear each and every suggestion we give is completely ignored as we are seeing yet another patch in which the class as a whole is likely to come out worse balance wise than when they went in.

KenaPKK

lol

This thread amuses me.

This won't be a popular opinion (but what does the general populace tend to know anyway?).

Anyone who thinks sorc is "dead" next patch is a moron. There, I said it.

You are getting huge buffs to Harness Magicka and Negate. Literally all you have to do differently is slot meteor or the damage morph of negate instead of Dawnbreaker and time your shields a little bit more deliberately before you anticipate taking damage.

I've been running around on a sorc with all sustain sets and no undaunted using just Hardened Ward for a long time, and I do just fine in solo / 1vX PvP. I consider this a huge buff to good sorcs, and good riddance to bad sorcs. The shields are still too big, but I expect people will just start using the new Harness instead of both, which is pretty alright imo.

Damage increasing, mobility unchanged, defense technically buffed but harder to pull off = sorcs overall buffed this patch. Stop being sheeple.

Grao

KenaPKK wrote: »

lol

This thread amuses me.

This won't be a popular opinion (but what does the general populace tend to know anyway?).

Anyone who thinks sorc is "dead" next patch is a moron. There, I said it.

You are getting huge buffs to Harness Magicka and Negate. Literally all you have to do differently is slot meteor or the damage morph of negate instead of Dawnbreaker and time your shields a little bit more deliberately before you anticipate taking damage.

I've been running around on a sorc with all sustain sets and no undaunted using just Hardened Ward for a long time, and I do just fine in solo / 1vX PvP. I consider this a huge buff to good sorcs, and good riddance to bad sorcs. The shields are still too big, but I expect people will just start using the new Harness instead of both, which is pretty alright imo.

Damage increasing, mobility unchanged, defense technically buffed but harder to pull off = sorcs overall buffed this patch. Stop being sheeple.

Woot, more PvP opinion when our main concern and complain about sorcerers is PvE...

Minalan

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

@Roymachine

Please take a look at the vet maelstrom thread on the PTS here. The numbers are all there. This isn't an L2P issue, it's a find a new game to play problem.

Grao

Minalan wrote: »

Roymachine wrote: »

So dramatic. The good sorcs who stick with it will learn to adapt and move on.

@Roymachine

Please take a look at the vet maelstrom thread on the PTS here. The numbers are all there. This isn't an L2P issue, it's a find a new game to play problem.

Hey, but we are still viable in PvP! Isn't that awesome? That balances everything doesn't it?

Vaoh

Grao wrote: »

You guys seem to be completely misunderstanding me. I am not ever saying Magicka sorcerers are the worse, I am saying sorcerers as a whole are the worse class in the game. Every other class has a role they play in which they are pretty much the best or at least not the worse, all except sorcerers.

We are the worse Tanks, specially with changes to Ward.
We are the worse healers as maintaining our healer pet alive was already nearly impossible before the changes to Ward.
We are the lowest of the Magicka DPS, even when using Overload.
We are the lowest Stamina DPS and will likely remain so even with this buffs.
We are the worse class when it comes to group utility.

How is that balanced? How can you argue that is not simply bad design?

I am not saying other classes don't need buffs on certain areas to be competitive in those areas, I am saying that the other classes have strong points in which they exceed. In which they are great. In which they are needed. Sorcerer don't have that.

There is the stigma amongst the forum community that the Sorcerer class is freakishly OP.

That will not go away, as we have players who stick solely to one class and could care less if another class became a mess. Easier AP for them in PvP and generally not their problem to deal with.

KenaPKK wrote: »

lol

This thread amuses me.

This won't be a popular opinion (but what does the general populace tend to know anyway?).

Anyone who thinks sorc is "dead" next patch is a moron. There, I said it.

You are getting huge buffs to Harness Magicka and Negate. Literally all you have to do differently is slot meteor or the damage morph of negate instead of Dawnbreaker and time your shields a little bit more deliberately before you anticipate taking damage.

I've been running around on a sorc with all sustain sets and no undaunted using just Hardened Ward for a long time, and I do just fine in solo / 1vX PvP. I consider this a huge buff to good sorcs, and good riddance to bad sorcs. The shields are still too big, but I expect people will just start using the new Harness instead of both, which is pretty alright imo.

Damage increasing, mobility unchanged, defense technically buffed but harder to pull off = sorcs overall buffed this patch. Stop being sheeple.

You should not have to be a good player to use your only defense as a Magicka Sorcerer. If you're a really good player, then you will do well no matter what class spec you play.

Most Magicka Sorcs are bad Sorcs, and will get absolutely crushed by this change, until they use another character. Sorcerer will become the "uncommon/rare" class. How is DB going to buff Sorcs in PvP if only a handful of them can even use the class anymore without getting slaughtered?

Not even going to start on how unnecessary the entire Sorc class will become in PvE content

Grao

Doncellius wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You guys seem to be completely misunderstanding me. I am not ever saying Magicka sorcerers are the worse, I am saying sorcerers as a whole are the worse class in the game. Every other class has a role they play in which they are pretty much the best or at least not the worse, all except sorcerers.

We are the worse Tanks, specially with changes to Ward.
We are the worse healers as maintaining our healer pet alive was already nearly impossible before the changes to Ward.
We are the lowest of the Magicka DPS, even when using Overload.
We are the lowest Stamina DPS and will likely remain so even with this buffs.
We are the worse class when it comes to group utility.

How is that balanced? How can you argue that is not simply bad design?

I am not saying other classes don't need buffs on certain areas to be competitive in those areas, I am saying that the other classes have strong points in which they exceed. In which they are great. In which they are needed. Sorcerer don't have that.

There is the stigma amongst the forum community that the Sorcerer class is freakishly OP.

That will not go away, as we have players who stick solely to one class and could care less if another class became a mess. Easier AP for them in PvP and generally not their problem to deal with.

KenaPKK wrote: »

lol

This thread amuses me.

This won't be a popular opinion (but what does the general populace tend to know anyway?).

Anyone who thinks sorc is "dead" next patch is a moron. There, I said it.

You are getting huge buffs to Harness Magicka and Negate. Literally all you have to do differently is slot meteor or the damage morph of negate instead of Dawnbreaker and time your shields a little bit more deliberately before you anticipate taking damage.

I've been running around on a sorc with all sustain sets and no undaunted using just Hardened Ward for a long time, and I do just fine in solo / 1vX PvP. I consider this a huge buff to good sorcs, and good riddance to bad sorcs. The shields are still too big, but I expect people will just start using the new Harness instead of both, which is pretty alright imo.

Damage increasing, mobility unchanged, defense technically buffed but harder to pull off = sorcs overall buffed this patch. Stop being sheeple.

You should not have to be a good player to use your only defense as a Magicka Sorcerer. If you're a really good player, then you will do well no matter what class spec you play.

Most Magicka Sorcs are bad Sorcs, and will get absolutely crushed by this change, until they use another character. Sorcerer will become the "uncommon/rare" class. How is DB going to buff Sorcs in PvP if only a handful of them can even use the class anymore without getting slaughtered?

Not even going to start on how unnecessary the entire Sorc class will become in PvE content

That stigma comes from the start of the game when sorcerers were incredibly powerful and were the class with least bugged abilities. Since then though, other classes were heavily buffed, bugs in skills were fixed and sorcerers saw a huge amount of nerfs to everything they used. It is about time that stigma dies out and reality sets in, the sorcerer class is without a doubt underpowered as they are not really good in any role, at least when it comes to PvE.

PvP is another matter, the class fairs far better in PvP because our skills allow for strong burst combos. Unfortunately that does nothing for PvE except prevent ZoS from buffing abilities that really could use some tweaking. Actually, PvP is one of those reasons sorcerers see nerf after nerf not only of their damage, but now their shields, self heals and ults.

Vaoh

Grao wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You guys seem to be completely misunderstanding me. I am not ever saying Magicka sorcerers are the worse, I am saying sorcerers as a whole are the worse class in the game. Every other class has a role they play in which they are pretty much the best or at least not the worse, all except sorcerers.

We are the worse Tanks, specially with changes to Ward.
We are the worse healers as maintaining our healer pet alive was already nearly impossible before the changes to Ward.
We are the lowest of the Magicka DPS, even when using Overload.
We are the lowest Stamina DPS and will likely remain so even with this buffs.
We are the worse class when it comes to group utility.

How is that balanced? How can you argue that is not simply bad design?

I am not saying other classes don't need buffs on certain areas to be competitive in those areas, I am saying that the other classes have strong points in which they exceed. In which they are great. In which they are needed. Sorcerer don't have that.

There is the stigma amongst the forum community that the Sorcerer class is freakishly OP.

That will not go away, as we have players who stick solely to one class and could care less if another class became a mess. Easier AP for them in PvP and generally not their problem to deal with.

KenaPKK wrote: »

lol

This thread amuses me.

This won't be a popular opinion (but what does the general populace tend to know anyway?).

Anyone who thinks sorc is "dead" next patch is a moron. There, I said it.

You are getting huge buffs to Harness Magicka and Negate. Literally all you have to do differently is slot meteor or the damage morph of negate instead of Dawnbreaker and time your shields a little bit more deliberately before you anticipate taking damage.

I've been running around on a sorc with all sustain sets and no undaunted using just Hardened Ward for a long time, and I do just fine in solo / 1vX PvP. I consider this a huge buff to good sorcs, and good riddance to bad sorcs. The shields are still too big, but I expect people will just start using the new Harness instead of both, which is pretty alright imo.

Damage increasing, mobility unchanged, defense technically buffed but harder to pull off = sorcs overall buffed this patch. Stop being sheeple.

You should not have to be a good player to use your only defense as a Magicka Sorcerer. If you're a really good player, then you will do well no matter what class spec you play.

Most Magicka Sorcs are bad Sorcs, and will get absolutely crushed by this change, until they use another character. Sorcerer will become the "uncommon/rare" class. How is DB going to buff Sorcs in PvP if only a handful of them can even use the class anymore without getting slaughtered?

Not even going to start on how unnecessary the entire Sorc class will become in PvE content

That stigma comes from the start of the game when sorcerers were incredibly powerful and were the class with least bugged abilities. Since then though, other classes were heavily buffed, bugs in skills were fixed and sorcerers saw a huge amount of nerfs to everything they used. It is about time that stigma dies out and reality sets in, the sorcerer class is without a doubt underpowered as they are not really good in any role, at least when it comes to PvE.

PvP is another matter, the class fairs far better in PvP because our skills allow for strong burst combos. Unfortunately that does nothing for PvE except prevent ZoS from buffing abilities that really could use some tweaking. Actually, PvP is one of those reasons sorcerers see nerf after nerf not only of their damage, but now their shields, self heals and ults.

Come Dark Brotherhood, Sorcs that are any good will be few and far in between.

Believe me, Magicka Sorcs will be uncommon and Stamina Sorcs just as rare. Unless you are a truly good player, it won't even be competitive anymore.

The nerfs to Sorc in the coming patch not only solidify them as the worst PvE class, but allows strong players to remain the same in PvP when it comes to shielding. Not to mention the heavy lack of build diversity amongst Magicka Sorcs becoming even worse with the removal of Dual Wield Sorcs.

Grao

Doncellius wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You guys seem to be completely misunderstanding me. I am not ever saying Magicka sorcerers are the worse, I am saying sorcerers as a whole are the worse class in the game. Every other class has a role they play in which they are pretty much the best or at least not the worse, all except sorcerers.

We are the worse Tanks, specially with changes to Ward.
We are the worse healers as maintaining our healer pet alive was already nearly impossible before the changes to Ward.
We are the lowest of the Magicka DPS, even when using Overload.
We are the lowest Stamina DPS and will likely remain so even with this buffs.
We are the worse class when it comes to group utility.

How is that balanced? How can you argue that is not simply bad design?

I am not saying other classes don't need buffs on certain areas to be competitive in those areas, I am saying that the other classes have strong points in which they exceed. In which they are great. In which they are needed. Sorcerer don't have that.

There is the stigma amongst the forum community that the Sorcerer class is freakishly OP.

That will not go away, as we have players who stick solely to one class and could care less if another class became a mess. Easier AP for them in PvP and generally not their problem to deal with.

KenaPKK wrote: »

lol

This thread amuses me.

This won't be a popular opinion (but what does the general populace tend to know anyway?).

Anyone who thinks sorc is "dead" next patch is a moron. There, I said it.

You are getting huge buffs to Harness Magicka and Negate. Literally all you have to do differently is slot meteor or the damage morph of negate instead of Dawnbreaker and time your shields a little bit more deliberately before you anticipate taking damage.

I've been running around on a sorc with all sustain sets and no undaunted using just Hardened Ward for a long time, and I do just fine in solo / 1vX PvP. I consider this a huge buff to good sorcs, and good riddance to bad sorcs. The shields are still too big, but I expect people will just start using the new Harness instead of both, which is pretty alright imo.

Damage increasing, mobility unchanged, defense technically buffed but harder to pull off = sorcs overall buffed this patch. Stop being sheeple.

You should not have to be a good player to use your only defense as a Magicka Sorcerer. If you're a really good player, then you will do well no matter what class spec you play.

Most Magicka Sorcs are bad Sorcs, and will get absolutely crushed by this change, until they use another character. Sorcerer will become the "uncommon/rare" class. How is DB going to buff Sorcs in PvP if only a handful of them can even use the class anymore without getting slaughtered?

Not even going to start on how unnecessary the entire Sorc class will become in PvE content

That stigma comes from the start of the game when sorcerers were incredibly powerful and were the class with least bugged abilities. Since then though, other classes were heavily buffed, bugs in skills were fixed and sorcerers saw a huge amount of nerfs to everything they used. It is about time that stigma dies out and reality sets in, the sorcerer class is without a doubt underpowered as they are not really good in any role, at least when it comes to PvE.

PvP is another matter, the class fairs far better in PvP because our skills allow for strong burst combos. Unfortunately that does nothing for PvE except prevent ZoS from buffing abilities that really could use some tweaking. Actually, PvP is one of those reasons sorcerers see nerf after nerf not only of their damage, but now their shields, self heals and ults.

Come Dark Brotherhood, Sorcs that are any good will be few and far in between.

Believe me, Magicka Sorcs will be uncommon and Stamina Sorcs just as rare. Unless you are a truly good player, it won't even be competitive anymore.

The nerfs to Sorc in the coming patch not only solidify them as the worst PvE class, but allows strong players to remain the same in PvP when it comes to shielding. Not to mention the heavy lack of build diversity amongst Magicka Sorcs becoming even worse with the removal of Dual Wield Sorcs.

Agreed, sadly. That they turned Trapping Webs into a stamina ability was so frustrating... It means back ot the stupid destro staff again >.<