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Make Stamina NBs viable in PvE!!!!!!
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luxfreak✭✭✭I just laughed about "the lack of sustain" stamina NBs have. Maybe we should compare sustain from all classes:
Stamina NB
- Refreshing Shadows: increase all regeneration by 15%
- Siphoning Attacks: light and heavy attacks (everyone should weave them in anyways) restore 999 magicka and stamina, all other direct dmg got a 10% chance to restore 1999 magicka and stamina (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Temp
- Restoring Spirit: reduces magicka, stamina and ultimate costs by 4%
- Repentance: restores 795 health and stamina to you from corpses to you AND your allies, not usefull during most bossfights because you need corpses and since healers are running this, every stam build gets the benefit (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Sorc
- Unholy Knowledge: reduces magicka and stamina costs by 5%
- Daedric Protection: increases health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning abillity slotted
Stamina DK
- Battleroar: activating an ultimate restores 70% of the ultimates cost as health, magicka and stamina
- Helping Hands: activating an Earthen Heart abillity restores 5% stamina
Yes, DK passives gives awesome sustain and they don't have to waste time for activating a skill like NBs have to. But comparing Temps and Sorcs with NBs, the NB has way better sustain imo. 1k ressources everytime you light attack? So basiclly everytime you are using a skill because of weaving. Thats an awesome sustain tool and I would trade in every passive Temps or Sorcs have in terms of sustain everytime.
Oh and comparing damage would end in a similar way. Yes stam DKs are OP but temps? What's giving them good dmg? Jbs is outdps'ed by flurry. Power of the Light? Nice skill but nothing that would make them OP. And stamsorc with Hurricane? It's a nice skill, especially for AoE but it's not that good that you can say sorcs would have better dps then stam NBs. And for the passives: temps have the same critt multiplier then NBs +6% weapon dmg but NBs have more critt with Pressure Points. Sorcs have 5% more physical dmg and more stamina with Bound Armaments. And for group buffs: NBs have Hemorrhage, every other stam build benefits from this buff.
Here's the thing, you're mostly comparing an active ability you have to slot to passives.
Slotting Siphoning Attacks does not give you any DPS increase whatsoever & in fact if you rely on it for sustain, you lose DPS every 15 seconds because you spend a GCD buffing yourself.
When you compare the passives alone, NB is the clear loser when it comes to sustain (well, kinda close with Templars).
Not that sustain really matters, just reroll Redguard & you'll never run out of stamina...
As for why other classes are better DPS, it's really simple: they have better offensive passives.
Here's how the passives boost DPS for each class:
Nightblade- +10% Weapon/Spell Damage while sneaking/invisible - never active in PvE.
- +2% Crit for slotting an Assassination ability - only one worth slotting on main bar is Killer's Blade, so +2% crit
- +10% Critical Strike Damage
- 20 Ultimate after drinking a potion - 2.25 ulti/s
- 2 Ultimate after using a Siphoning Ability, 4s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - no Siphoning abilities that boost your DPS as stamblade
Templar- 10% Critical Strike Damage
- +6% Weapon Damage
- +3 Ultimate after using a Dawn's Wrath Ability, 6s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - activated with Power of the Light
- -4% Ultimate costs
Sorcerer- -15% Ultimate Costs
- +5% Physical Damage
- Between 30-50% chance every second of passively proccing a 20k+ tooltip execute (more damage than a Killer's Blade cast) when target is at 15% or below
- +4% weapon damage (for having Hurricane & Bound Armaments slotted)
- +8% Max Stamina (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
- +11% Heavy Attack Damage (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
Skills wise, the only thing worth slotting from Nightblade skills is Killer's Blade, an execute that deals less damage (even at <25% health) than Executioner. A stamblade DPS from 25%->0% is less than Stam DK DPS from 100%->0%. 'Nuf said.
Note: you also want to slot Relentless Focus on 2nd bar to activate the +10% Critical Strike damage passive, but it's not worth actually casting if you want to increase your DPS.
Other than that, we're the same as other classes - except with worse passives.
Ok, heres the thing: Relentless Fcosu Sclaes somehow with max Stats, means, its damage increases when i use a Weapon Damage
Pot. Thats on live. It Hits for ~15k per tooltip. Next Patch it scales with Mighty and Armor Pen, so it Hits for ~20-25k.
Then its always worth to have the 8% Overall Daage Buff up. Nw you may say 'Combat Prayer'. I say: YOu cant depend on Combat Praer to be Activ 100%, especially in Raids, where the Healers have other stuff to do then spamming Combat Prayer.
Next thing, we Stamblades get Incap Strike with Disease Damage. That may be a Nuff for mainly PVP, but stam blades in PVE als can use it. it hits for around 25k i guess. and it gives you a 6 second major Damage Buff.
You can use it like every 20 seconds i guess. I think its worth Slotting it in the 2nd Bar, and use in in Singlearget Situations.
If there is more then 1 enemy, ofc, Dawnbreaker is Stronger.
Means we have a Choice.
So for the Title:
i think Stam Blades are viable in PVE, only not as strong as Stam dks, or Magika Builds.
But a good player can probably with ease Produce 30k+ DPS against eg. a Mantikora.
Casting Relentless Focus is a DPS loss, here is why (from Nightblade feedback thread) and a solution on how to make it a viable part of DPS rotation:Elevenstorm wrote: »In competitive trial groups relentless focus and their morphs are always a dps loss. Healers are giving you the same buff you get from that ability. This is where stamblades need the most help! Competitive end game trials. Our dps is too low to be competitive so we need something to augment it. As a redguard I do not ever have problems with stamina and I run 3 wep damage glyphs on my jewelry. Stamblades need higher single target sustained dps without buffing the burst potential as we are already too strong at that. Agreed that the passives could be looked at to help us in this arena as a couple could be changed to help stamina as well as in their current state of only magicka.
It's a DPS loss because you need to rebuff after using the proc. If you didn't have to rebuff yourself after using it, it would be a DPS increase as it deals quite a lot of damage (especially now that they made it scale with MIghty).
For comparison's sake, here's Rapid Strikes:
The cast time is actually 0.9 seconds, there is a tooltip error I believe - so the DPS I get by casting it is:
1234+(1234+3%)+(1271+3%)+(1309+3%)+(1348+303%)=10 596 +10% (0.9s cast speed)->11 655,6 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Now here's Relentless Focus with the same gear etc:
17 808 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Problem is, at the moment you have to recast it again after using it, which means for every Assassin's Scourge you cast you spend another GCD doing no damage recasting the Relentless Focus. This means we cut in half the 17 808, leaving us with 8904 DPS.
If it didn't require recasting the ability after using the proc, we'd gain a significant DPS boost after every 4 light attacks - this would mesh well with the "burst damage" playstyle of stamina nightblade, without really affecting PvP too much.
How much exactly would our DPS increase by? Well, if we do one Rapid Strikes+LA rotation roughly every 1,2 seconds, it'd take 4,8 seconds to get a proc of Relentless Focus - which deals 6152.4 DPS more (11 655,6-17 808) than a Rapid Strikes rotation.
Divided by 4,8, that'd result in an average of 1281.75 DPS increase.
Not counting mitigation/crits.
It's a start.
Simple Solution: Cast it only once every 20 seconds, and shoot it once, when your on your offbar anyway.
Its always worth having it up, with minor berserk and minor endurance.
I think it would be an aweasome Damage increase, if we can shoot it multiple times. But i thin its not a damage loss if you just keep it up, instead of recasting it after every shot.
Thats the way i play it right now, and its alredy a DPS win.Tank/DD with Hof HM clear1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I just laughed about "the lack of sustain" stamina NBs have. Maybe we should compare sustain from all classes:
Stamina NB
- Refreshing Shadows: increase all regeneration by 15%
- Siphoning Attacks: light and heavy attacks (everyone should weave them in anyways) restore 999 magicka and stamina, all other direct dmg got a 10% chance to restore 1999 magicka and stamina (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Temp
- Restoring Spirit: reduces magicka, stamina and ultimate costs by 4%
- Repentance: restores 795 health and stamina to you from corpses to you AND your allies, not usefull during most bossfights because you need corpses and since healers are running this, every stam build gets the benefit (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Sorc
- Unholy Knowledge: reduces magicka and stamina costs by 5%
- Daedric Protection: increases health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning abillity slotted
Stamina DK
- Battleroar: activating an ultimate restores 70% of the ultimates cost as health, magicka and stamina
- Helping Hands: activating an Earthen Heart abillity restores 5% stamina
Yes, DK passives gives awesome sustain and they don't have to waste time for activating a skill like NBs have to. But comparing Temps and Sorcs with NBs, the NB has way better sustain imo. 1k ressources everytime you light attack? So basiclly everytime you are using a skill because of weaving. Thats an awesome sustain tool and I would trade in every passive Temps or Sorcs have in terms of sustain everytime.
Oh and comparing damage would end in a similar way. Yes stam DKs are OP but temps? What's giving them good dmg? Jbs is outdps'ed by flurry. Power of the Light? Nice skill but nothing that would make them OP. And stamsorc with Hurricane? It's a nice skill, especially for AoE but it's not that good that you can say sorcs would have better dps then stam NBs. And for the passives: temps have the same critt multiplier then NBs +6% weapon dmg but NBs have more critt with Pressure Points. Sorcs have 5% more physical dmg and more stamina with Bound Armaments. And for group buffs: NBs have Hemorrhage, every other stam build benefits from this buff.
Here's the thing, you're mostly comparing an active ability you have to slot to passives.
Slotting Siphoning Attacks does not give you any DPS increase whatsoever & in fact if you rely on it for sustain, you lose DPS every 15 seconds because you spend a GCD buffing yourself.
When you compare the passives alone, NB is the clear loser when it comes to sustain (well, kinda close with Templars).
Not that sustain really matters, just reroll Redguard & you'll never run out of stamina...
As for why other classes are better DPS, it's really simple: they have better offensive passives.
Here's how the passives boost DPS for each class:
Nightblade- +10% Weapon/Spell Damage while sneaking/invisible - never active in PvE.
- +2% Crit for slotting an Assassination ability - only one worth slotting on main bar is Killer's Blade, so +2% crit
- +10% Critical Strike Damage
- 20 Ultimate after drinking a potion - 2.25 ulti/s
- 2 Ultimate after using a Siphoning Ability, 4s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - no Siphoning abilities that boost your DPS as stamblade
Templar- 10% Critical Strike Damage
- +6% Weapon Damage
- +3 Ultimate after using a Dawn's Wrath Ability, 6s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - activated with Power of the Light
- -4% Ultimate costs
Sorcerer- -15% Ultimate Costs
- +5% Physical Damage
- Between 30-50% chance every second of passively proccing a 20k+ tooltip execute (more damage than a Killer's Blade cast) when target is at 15% or below
- +4% weapon damage (for having Hurricane & Bound Armaments slotted)
- +8% Max Stamina (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
- +11% Heavy Attack Damage (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
Skills wise, the only thing worth slotting from Nightblade skills is Killer's Blade, an execute that deals less damage (even at <25% health) than Executioner. A stamblade DPS from 25%->0% is less than Stam DK DPS from 100%->0%. 'Nuf said.
Note: you also want to slot Relentless Focus on 2nd bar to activate the +10% Critical Strike damage passive, but it's not worth actually casting if you want to increase your DPS.
Other than that, we're the same as other classes - except with worse passives.
Ok, heres the thing: Relentless Fcosu Sclaes somehow with max Stats, means, its damage increases when i use a Weapon Damage
Pot. Thats on live. It Hits for ~15k per tooltip. Next Patch it scales with Mighty and Armor Pen, so it Hits for ~20-25k.
Then its always worth to have the 8% Overall Daage Buff up. Nw you may say 'Combat Prayer'. I say: YOu cant depend on Combat Praer to be Activ 100%, especially in Raids, where the Healers have other stuff to do then spamming Combat Prayer.
Next thing, we Stamblades get Incap Strike with Disease Damage. That may be a Nuff for mainly PVP, but stam blades in PVE als can use it. it hits for around 25k i guess. and it gives you a 6 second major Damage Buff.
You can use it like every 20 seconds i guess. I think its worth Slotting it in the 2nd Bar, and use in in Singlearget Situations.
If there is more then 1 enemy, ofc, Dawnbreaker is Stronger.
Means we have a Choice.
So for the Title:
i think Stam Blades are viable in PVE, only not as strong as Stam dks, or Magika Builds.
But a good player can probably with ease Produce 30k+ DPS against eg. a Mantikora.
Casting Relentless Focus is a DPS loss, here is why (from Nightblade feedback thread) and a solution on how to make it a viable part of DPS rotation:Elevenstorm wrote: »In competitive trial groups relentless focus and their morphs are always a dps loss. Healers are giving you the same buff you get from that ability. This is where stamblades need the most help! Competitive end game trials. Our dps is too low to be competitive so we need something to augment it. As a redguard I do not ever have problems with stamina and I run 3 wep damage glyphs on my jewelry. Stamblades need higher single target sustained dps without buffing the burst potential as we are already too strong at that. Agreed that the passives could be looked at to help us in this arena as a couple could be changed to help stamina as well as in their current state of only magicka.
It's a DPS loss because you need to rebuff after using the proc. If you didn't have to rebuff yourself after using it, it would be a DPS increase as it deals quite a lot of damage (especially now that they made it scale with MIghty).
For comparison's sake, here's Rapid Strikes:
The cast time is actually 0.9 seconds, there is a tooltip error I believe - so the DPS I get by casting it is:
1234+(1234+3%)+(1271+3%)+(1309+3%)+(1348+303%)=10 596 +10% (0.9s cast speed)->11 655,6 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Now here's Relentless Focus with the same gear etc:
17 808 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Problem is, at the moment you have to recast it again after using it, which means for every Assassin's Scourge you cast you spend another GCD doing no damage recasting the Relentless Focus. This means we cut in half the 17 808, leaving us with 8904 DPS.
If it didn't require recasting the ability after using the proc, we'd gain a significant DPS boost after every 4 light attacks - this would mesh well with the "burst damage" playstyle of stamina nightblade, without really affecting PvP too much.
How much exactly would our DPS increase by? Well, if we do one Rapid Strikes+LA rotation roughly every 1,2 seconds, it'd take 4,8 seconds to get a proc of Relentless Focus - which deals 6152.4 DPS more (11 655,6-17 808) than a Rapid Strikes rotation.
Divided by 4,8, that'd result in an average of 1281.75 DPS increase.
Not counting mitigation/crits.
It's a start.
Simple Solution: Cast it only once every 20 seconds, and shoot it once, when your on your offbar anyway.
Its always worth having it up, with minor berserk and minor endurance.
I think it would be an aweasome Damage increase, if we can shoot it multiple times. But i thin its not a damage loss if you just keep it up, instead of recasting it after every shot.
Thats the way i play it right now, and its alredy a DPS win.
Or just have your healers combat prayer you - if they're good and your raid is organized, it's up 24/7 & you don't waste DPS by casting Relentless Focus.2 -
luxfreak✭✭✭I just laughed about "the lack of sustain" stamina NBs have. Maybe we should compare sustain from all classes:
Stamina NB
- Refreshing Shadows: increase all regeneration by 15%
- Siphoning Attacks: light and heavy attacks (everyone should weave them in anyways) restore 999 magicka and stamina, all other direct dmg got a 10% chance to restore 1999 magicka and stamina (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Temp
- Restoring Spirit: reduces magicka, stamina and ultimate costs by 4%
- Repentance: restores 795 health and stamina to you from corpses to you AND your allies, not usefull during most bossfights because you need corpses and since healers are running this, every stam build gets the benefit (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Sorc
- Unholy Knowledge: reduces magicka and stamina costs by 5%
- Daedric Protection: increases health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning abillity slotted
Stamina DK
- Battleroar: activating an ultimate restores 70% of the ultimates cost as health, magicka and stamina
- Helping Hands: activating an Earthen Heart abillity restores 5% stamina
Yes, DK passives gives awesome sustain and they don't have to waste time for activating a skill like NBs have to. But comparing Temps and Sorcs with NBs, the NB has way better sustain imo. 1k ressources everytime you light attack? So basiclly everytime you are using a skill because of weaving. Thats an awesome sustain tool and I would trade in every passive Temps or Sorcs have in terms of sustain everytime.
Oh and comparing damage would end in a similar way. Yes stam DKs are OP but temps? What's giving them good dmg? Jbs is outdps'ed by flurry. Power of the Light? Nice skill but nothing that would make them OP. And stamsorc with Hurricane? It's a nice skill, especially for AoE but it's not that good that you can say sorcs would have better dps then stam NBs. And for the passives: temps have the same critt multiplier then NBs +6% weapon dmg but NBs have more critt with Pressure Points. Sorcs have 5% more physical dmg and more stamina with Bound Armaments. And for group buffs: NBs have Hemorrhage, every other stam build benefits from this buff.
Here's the thing, you're mostly comparing an active ability you have to slot to passives.
Slotting Siphoning Attacks does not give you any DPS increase whatsoever & in fact if you rely on it for sustain, you lose DPS every 15 seconds because you spend a GCD buffing yourself.
When you compare the passives alone, NB is the clear loser when it comes to sustain (well, kinda close with Templars).
Not that sustain really matters, just reroll Redguard & you'll never run out of stamina...
As for why other classes are better DPS, it's really simple: they have better offensive passives.
Here's how the passives boost DPS for each class:
Nightblade- +10% Weapon/Spell Damage while sneaking/invisible - never active in PvE.
- +2% Crit for slotting an Assassination ability - only one worth slotting on main bar is Killer's Blade, so +2% crit
- +10% Critical Strike Damage
- 20 Ultimate after drinking a potion - 2.25 ulti/s
- 2 Ultimate after using a Siphoning Ability, 4s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - no Siphoning abilities that boost your DPS as stamblade
Templar- 10% Critical Strike Damage
- +6% Weapon Damage
- +3 Ultimate after using a Dawn's Wrath Ability, 6s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - activated with Power of the Light
- -4% Ultimate costs
Sorcerer- -15% Ultimate Costs
- +5% Physical Damage
- Between 30-50% chance every second of passively proccing a 20k+ tooltip execute (more damage than a Killer's Blade cast) when target is at 15% or below
- +4% weapon damage (for having Hurricane & Bound Armaments slotted)
- +8% Max Stamina (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
- +11% Heavy Attack Damage (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
Skills wise, the only thing worth slotting from Nightblade skills is Killer's Blade, an execute that deals less damage (even at <25% health) than Executioner. A stamblade DPS from 25%->0% is less than Stam DK DPS from 100%->0%. 'Nuf said.
Note: you also want to slot Relentless Focus on 2nd bar to activate the +10% Critical Strike damage passive, but it's not worth actually casting if you want to increase your DPS.
Other than that, we're the same as other classes - except with worse passives.
Ok, heres the thing: Relentless Fcosu Sclaes somehow with max Stats, means, its damage increases when i use a Weapon Damage
Pot. Thats on live. It Hits for ~15k per tooltip. Next Patch it scales with Mighty and Armor Pen, so it Hits for ~20-25k.
Then its always worth to have the 8% Overall Daage Buff up. Nw you may say 'Combat Prayer'. I say: YOu cant depend on Combat Praer to be Activ 100%, especially in Raids, where the Healers have other stuff to do then spamming Combat Prayer.
Next thing, we Stamblades get Incap Strike with Disease Damage. That may be a Nuff for mainly PVP, but stam blades in PVE als can use it. it hits for around 25k i guess. and it gives you a 6 second major Damage Buff.
You can use it like every 20 seconds i guess. I think its worth Slotting it in the 2nd Bar, and use in in Singlearget Situations.
If there is more then 1 enemy, ofc, Dawnbreaker is Stronger.
Means we have a Choice.
So for the Title:
i think Stam Blades are viable in PVE, only not as strong as Stam dks, or Magika Builds.
But a good player can probably with ease Produce 30k+ DPS against eg. a Mantikora.
Casting Relentless Focus is a DPS loss, here is why (from Nightblade feedback thread) and a solution on how to make it a viable part of DPS rotation:Elevenstorm wrote: »In competitive trial groups relentless focus and their morphs are always a dps loss. Healers are giving you the same buff you get from that ability. This is where stamblades need the most help! Competitive end game trials. Our dps is too low to be competitive so we need something to augment it. As a redguard I do not ever have problems with stamina and I run 3 wep damage glyphs on my jewelry. Stamblades need higher single target sustained dps without buffing the burst potential as we are already too strong at that. Agreed that the passives could be looked at to help us in this arena as a couple could be changed to help stamina as well as in their current state of only magicka.
It's a DPS loss because you need to rebuff after using the proc. If you didn't have to rebuff yourself after using it, it would be a DPS increase as it deals quite a lot of damage (especially now that they made it scale with MIghty).
For comparison's sake, here's Rapid Strikes:
The cast time is actually 0.9 seconds, there is a tooltip error I believe - so the DPS I get by casting it is:
1234+(1234+3%)+(1271+3%)+(1309+3%)+(1348+303%)=10 596 +10% (0.9s cast speed)->11 655,6 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Now here's Relentless Focus with the same gear etc:
17 808 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Problem is, at the moment you have to recast it again after using it, which means for every Assassin's Scourge you cast you spend another GCD doing no damage recasting the Relentless Focus. This means we cut in half the 17 808, leaving us with 8904 DPS.
If it didn't require recasting the ability after using the proc, we'd gain a significant DPS boost after every 4 light attacks - this would mesh well with the "burst damage" playstyle of stamina nightblade, without really affecting PvP too much.
How much exactly would our DPS increase by? Well, if we do one Rapid Strikes+LA rotation roughly every 1,2 seconds, it'd take 4,8 seconds to get a proc of Relentless Focus - which deals 6152.4 DPS more (11 655,6-17 808) than a Rapid Strikes rotation.
Divided by 4,8, that'd result in an average of 1281.75 DPS increase.
Not counting mitigation/crits.
It's a start.
Simple Solution: Cast it only once every 20 seconds, and shoot it once, when your on your offbar anyway.
Its always worth having it up, with minor berserk and minor endurance.
I think it would be an aweasome Damage increase, if we can shoot it multiple times. But i thin its not a damage loss if you just keep it up, instead of recasting it after every shot.
Thats the way i play it right now, and its alredy a DPS win.
Or just have your healers combat prayer you - if they're good and your raid is organized, it's up 24/7 & you don't waste DPS by casting Relentless Focus.
lmao, so, do you rely on your tank to give you your Magic Damage Buff?
Ofc its true that in an optimal Situation, you would have 100% Uptime of Combat Prayer, but that would require 2 Healers(which we dont even have in ALL Sitations) And Stacking, or for the Healer to use combat Prayer excessivly.
So in real, you will have an avarage of about 50-70% Uptime for Prayer, Depending on your Healers skill and dedication.
I dont believe there is ANY groupe, that has 100% Uptime Combat Prayer over all 10-8 DDs, especially in the new Trial.
So beeing self reliant is quite a good choice, and will boost your DPS in most Situations.
The 10% Stam Reg Buff is quite nice as well.
And that one Damage cast should make up for casting Focus once every 20 Seconds.
It wont be a Huge DPS Win, but the Buffs will, in the end, probably boost your DPS.
And even if you get 100% Uptime Combat Prayer, the one time Hit and the Stam Reg should make up for the Cast Time, especially as you can swap cancle it.Tank/DD with Hof HM clear0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I just laughed about "the lack of sustain" stamina NBs have. Maybe we should compare sustain from all classes:
Stamina NB
- Refreshing Shadows: increase all regeneration by 15%
- Siphoning Attacks: light and heavy attacks (everyone should weave them in anyways) restore 999 magicka and stamina, all other direct dmg got a 10% chance to restore 1999 magicka and stamina (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Temp
- Restoring Spirit: reduces magicka, stamina and ultimate costs by 4%
- Repentance: restores 795 health and stamina to you from corpses to you AND your allies, not usefull during most bossfights because you need corpses and since healers are running this, every stam build gets the benefit (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Sorc
- Unholy Knowledge: reduces magicka and stamina costs by 5%
- Daedric Protection: increases health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning abillity slotted
Stamina DK
- Battleroar: activating an ultimate restores 70% of the ultimates cost as health, magicka and stamina
- Helping Hands: activating an Earthen Heart abillity restores 5% stamina
Yes, DK passives gives awesome sustain and they don't have to waste time for activating a skill like NBs have to. But comparing Temps and Sorcs with NBs, the NB has way better sustain imo. 1k ressources everytime you light attack? So basiclly everytime you are using a skill because of weaving. Thats an awesome sustain tool and I would trade in every passive Temps or Sorcs have in terms of sustain everytime.
Oh and comparing damage would end in a similar way. Yes stam DKs are OP but temps? What's giving them good dmg? Jbs is outdps'ed by flurry. Power of the Light? Nice skill but nothing that would make them OP. And stamsorc with Hurricane? It's a nice skill, especially for AoE but it's not that good that you can say sorcs would have better dps then stam NBs. And for the passives: temps have the same critt multiplier then NBs +6% weapon dmg but NBs have more critt with Pressure Points. Sorcs have 5% more physical dmg and more stamina with Bound Armaments. And for group buffs: NBs have Hemorrhage, every other stam build benefits from this buff.
Here's the thing, you're mostly comparing an active ability you have to slot to passives.
Slotting Siphoning Attacks does not give you any DPS increase whatsoever & in fact if you rely on it for sustain, you lose DPS every 15 seconds because you spend a GCD buffing yourself.
When you compare the passives alone, NB is the clear loser when it comes to sustain (well, kinda close with Templars).
Not that sustain really matters, just reroll Redguard & you'll never run out of stamina...
As for why other classes are better DPS, it's really simple: they have better offensive passives.
Here's how the passives boost DPS for each class:
Nightblade- +10% Weapon/Spell Damage while sneaking/invisible - never active in PvE.
- +2% Crit for slotting an Assassination ability - only one worth slotting on main bar is Killer's Blade, so +2% crit
- +10% Critical Strike Damage
- 20 Ultimate after drinking a potion - 2.25 ulti/s
- 2 Ultimate after using a Siphoning Ability, 4s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - no Siphoning abilities that boost your DPS as stamblade
Templar- 10% Critical Strike Damage
- +6% Weapon Damage
- +3 Ultimate after using a Dawn's Wrath Ability, 6s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - activated with Power of the Light
- -4% Ultimate costs
Sorcerer- -15% Ultimate Costs
- +5% Physical Damage
- Between 30-50% chance every second of passively proccing a 20k+ tooltip execute (more damage than a Killer's Blade cast) when target is at 15% or below
- +4% weapon damage (for having Hurricane & Bound Armaments slotted)
- +8% Max Stamina (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
- +11% Heavy Attack Damage (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
Skills wise, the only thing worth slotting from Nightblade skills is Killer's Blade, an execute that deals less damage (even at <25% health) than Executioner. A stamblade DPS from 25%->0% is less than Stam DK DPS from 100%->0%. 'Nuf said.
Note: you also want to slot Relentless Focus on 2nd bar to activate the +10% Critical Strike damage passive, but it's not worth actually casting if you want to increase your DPS.
Other than that, we're the same as other classes - except with worse passives.
Ok, heres the thing: Relentless Fcosu Sclaes somehow with max Stats, means, its damage increases when i use a Weapon Damage
Pot. Thats on live. It Hits for ~15k per tooltip. Next Patch it scales with Mighty and Armor Pen, so it Hits for ~20-25k.
Then its always worth to have the 8% Overall Daage Buff up. Nw you may say 'Combat Prayer'. I say: YOu cant depend on Combat Praer to be Activ 100%, especially in Raids, where the Healers have other stuff to do then spamming Combat Prayer.
Next thing, we Stamblades get Incap Strike with Disease Damage. That may be a Nuff for mainly PVP, but stam blades in PVE als can use it. it hits for around 25k i guess. and it gives you a 6 second major Damage Buff.
You can use it like every 20 seconds i guess. I think its worth Slotting it in the 2nd Bar, and use in in Singlearget Situations.
If there is more then 1 enemy, ofc, Dawnbreaker is Stronger.
Means we have a Choice.
So for the Title:
i think Stam Blades are viable in PVE, only not as strong as Stam dks, or Magika Builds.
But a good player can probably with ease Produce 30k+ DPS against eg. a Mantikora.
Casting Relentless Focus is a DPS loss, here is why (from Nightblade feedback thread) and a solution on how to make it a viable part of DPS rotation:Elevenstorm wrote: »In competitive trial groups relentless focus and their morphs are always a dps loss. Healers are giving you the same buff you get from that ability. This is where stamblades need the most help! Competitive end game trials. Our dps is too low to be competitive so we need something to augment it. As a redguard I do not ever have problems with stamina and I run 3 wep damage glyphs on my jewelry. Stamblades need higher single target sustained dps without buffing the burst potential as we are already too strong at that. Agreed that the passives could be looked at to help us in this arena as a couple could be changed to help stamina as well as in their current state of only magicka.
It's a DPS loss because you need to rebuff after using the proc. If you didn't have to rebuff yourself after using it, it would be a DPS increase as it deals quite a lot of damage (especially now that they made it scale with MIghty).
For comparison's sake, here's Rapid Strikes:
The cast time is actually 0.9 seconds, there is a tooltip error I believe - so the DPS I get by casting it is:
1234+(1234+3%)+(1271+3%)+(1309+3%)+(1348+303%)=10 596 +10% (0.9s cast speed)->11 655,6 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Now here's Relentless Focus with the same gear etc:
17 808 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Problem is, at the moment you have to recast it again after using it, which means for every Assassin's Scourge you cast you spend another GCD doing no damage recasting the Relentless Focus. This means we cut in half the 17 808, leaving us with 8904 DPS.
If it didn't require recasting the ability after using the proc, we'd gain a significant DPS boost after every 4 light attacks - this would mesh well with the "burst damage" playstyle of stamina nightblade, without really affecting PvP too much.
How much exactly would our DPS increase by? Well, if we do one Rapid Strikes+LA rotation roughly every 1,2 seconds, it'd take 4,8 seconds to get a proc of Relentless Focus - which deals 6152.4 DPS more (11 655,6-17 808) than a Rapid Strikes rotation.
Divided by 4,8, that'd result in an average of 1281.75 DPS increase.
Not counting mitigation/crits.
It's a start.
Simple Solution: Cast it only once every 20 seconds, and shoot it once, when your on your offbar anyway.
Its always worth having it up, with minor berserk and minor endurance.
I think it would be an aweasome Damage increase, if we can shoot it multiple times. But i thin its not a damage loss if you just keep it up, instead of recasting it after every shot.
Thats the way i play it right now, and its alredy a DPS win.
Or just have your healers combat prayer you - if they're good and your raid is organized, it's up 24/7 & you don't waste DPS by casting Relentless Focus.
lmao, so, do you rely on your tank to give you your Magic Damage Buff?
Ofc its true that in an optimal Situation, you would have 100% Uptime of Combat Prayer, but that would require 2 Healers(which we dont even have in ALL Sitations) And Stacking, or for the Healer to use combat Prayer excessivly.
So in real, you will have an avarage of about 50-70% Uptime for Prayer, Depending on your Healers skill and dedication.
I dont believe there is ANY groupe, that has 100% Uptime Combat Prayer over all 10-8 DDs, especially in the new Trial.
So beeing self reliant is quite a good choice, and will boost your DPS in most Situations.
The 10% Stam Reg Buff is quite nice as well.
And that one Damage cast should make up for casting Focus once every 20 Seconds.
It wont be a Huge DPS Win, but the Buffs will, in the end, probably boost your DPS.
And even if you get 100% Uptime Combat Prayer, the one time Hit and the Stam Reg should make up for the Cast Time, especially as you can swap cancle it.
It doesn't though, I laid out the math on my previous post. "Swap cancel" makes no difference, you still get that 1s global cooldown between using skills.
You'd have to make up for 2752 worth of damage (11 655.6-8904) with that +8% damage buff (and not have it from your healers already) for it to be a DPS increase. Granted, this is quite easy to do if your base DPS without it is around the 25k~ marker, it'd only take 2 seconds of uptime with that buff.
The only times it's really worth casting is when you're not in melee range of a boss (e.g. when swapping sides at 2nd bosses in vMoL). There are quite a few of these cases to be honest, but the ability is still not as useful as it should be (when compared to other classes abilities that grant a significant DPS boost, e.g. Venomous Claw or Hurricane.
I don't understand why it can't refresh the duration when you land the skill, Burning Embers works this way, as does Rally.1 -
luxfreak✭✭✭I just laughed about "the lack of sustain" stamina NBs have. Maybe we should compare sustain from all classes:
Stamina NB
- Refreshing Shadows: increase all regeneration by 15%
- Siphoning Attacks: light and heavy attacks (everyone should weave them in anyways) restore 999 magicka and stamina, all other direct dmg got a 10% chance to restore 1999 magicka and stamina (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Temp
- Restoring Spirit: reduces magicka, stamina and ultimate costs by 4%
- Repentance: restores 795 health and stamina to you from corpses to you AND your allies, not usefull during most bossfights because you need corpses and since healers are running this, every stam build gets the benefit (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Sorc
- Unholy Knowledge: reduces magicka and stamina costs by 5%
- Daedric Protection: increases health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning abillity slotted
Stamina DK
- Battleroar: activating an ultimate restores 70% of the ultimates cost as health, magicka and stamina
- Helping Hands: activating an Earthen Heart abillity restores 5% stamina
Yes, DK passives gives awesome sustain and they don't have to waste time for activating a skill like NBs have to. But comparing Temps and Sorcs with NBs, the NB has way better sustain imo. 1k ressources everytime you light attack? So basiclly everytime you are using a skill because of weaving. Thats an awesome sustain tool and I would trade in every passive Temps or Sorcs have in terms of sustain everytime.
Oh and comparing damage would end in a similar way. Yes stam DKs are OP but temps? What's giving them good dmg? Jbs is outdps'ed by flurry. Power of the Light? Nice skill but nothing that would make them OP. And stamsorc with Hurricane? It's a nice skill, especially for AoE but it's not that good that you can say sorcs would have better dps then stam NBs. And for the passives: temps have the same critt multiplier then NBs +6% weapon dmg but NBs have more critt with Pressure Points. Sorcs have 5% more physical dmg and more stamina with Bound Armaments. And for group buffs: NBs have Hemorrhage, every other stam build benefits from this buff.
Here's the thing, you're mostly comparing an active ability you have to slot to passives.
Slotting Siphoning Attacks does not give you any DPS increase whatsoever & in fact if you rely on it for sustain, you lose DPS every 15 seconds because you spend a GCD buffing yourself.
When you compare the passives alone, NB is the clear loser when it comes to sustain (well, kinda close with Templars).
Not that sustain really matters, just reroll Redguard & you'll never run out of stamina...
As for why other classes are better DPS, it's really simple: they have better offensive passives.
Here's how the passives boost DPS for each class:
Nightblade- +10% Weapon/Spell Damage while sneaking/invisible - never active in PvE.
- +2% Crit for slotting an Assassination ability - only one worth slotting on main bar is Killer's Blade, so +2% crit
- +10% Critical Strike Damage
- 20 Ultimate after drinking a potion - 2.25 ulti/s
- 2 Ultimate after using a Siphoning Ability, 4s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - no Siphoning abilities that boost your DPS as stamblade
Templar- 10% Critical Strike Damage
- +6% Weapon Damage
- +3 Ultimate after using a Dawn's Wrath Ability, 6s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - activated with Power of the Light
- -4% Ultimate costs
Sorcerer- -15% Ultimate Costs
- +5% Physical Damage
- Between 30-50% chance every second of passively proccing a 20k+ tooltip execute (more damage than a Killer's Blade cast) when target is at 15% or below
- +4% weapon damage (for having Hurricane & Bound Armaments slotted)
- +8% Max Stamina (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
- +11% Heavy Attack Damage (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
Skills wise, the only thing worth slotting from Nightblade skills is Killer's Blade, an execute that deals less damage (even at <25% health) than Executioner. A stamblade DPS from 25%->0% is less than Stam DK DPS from 100%->0%. 'Nuf said.
Note: you also want to slot Relentless Focus on 2nd bar to activate the +10% Critical Strike damage passive, but it's not worth actually casting if you want to increase your DPS.
Other than that, we're the same as other classes - except with worse passives.
Ok, heres the thing: Relentless Fcosu Sclaes somehow with max Stats, means, its damage increases when i use a Weapon Damage
Pot. Thats on live. It Hits for ~15k per tooltip. Next Patch it scales with Mighty and Armor Pen, so it Hits for ~20-25k.
Then its always worth to have the 8% Overall Daage Buff up. Nw you may say 'Combat Prayer'. I say: YOu cant depend on Combat Praer to be Activ 100%, especially in Raids, where the Healers have other stuff to do then spamming Combat Prayer.
Next thing, we Stamblades get Incap Strike with Disease Damage. That may be a Nuff for mainly PVP, but stam blades in PVE als can use it. it hits for around 25k i guess. and it gives you a 6 second major Damage Buff.
You can use it like every 20 seconds i guess. I think its worth Slotting it in the 2nd Bar, and use in in Singlearget Situations.
If there is more then 1 enemy, ofc, Dawnbreaker is Stronger.
Means we have a Choice.
So for the Title:
i think Stam Blades are viable in PVE, only not as strong as Stam dks, or Magika Builds.
But a good player can probably with ease Produce 30k+ DPS against eg. a Mantikora.
Casting Relentless Focus is a DPS loss, here is why (from Nightblade feedback thread) and a solution on how to make it a viable part of DPS rotation:Elevenstorm wrote: »In competitive trial groups relentless focus and their morphs are always a dps loss. Healers are giving you the same buff you get from that ability. This is where stamblades need the most help! Competitive end game trials. Our dps is too low to be competitive so we need something to augment it. As a redguard I do not ever have problems with stamina and I run 3 wep damage glyphs on my jewelry. Stamblades need higher single target sustained dps without buffing the burst potential as we are already too strong at that. Agreed that the passives could be looked at to help us in this arena as a couple could be changed to help stamina as well as in their current state of only magicka.
It's a DPS loss because you need to rebuff after using the proc. If you didn't have to rebuff yourself after using it, it would be a DPS increase as it deals quite a lot of damage (especially now that they made it scale with MIghty).
For comparison's sake, here's Rapid Strikes:
The cast time is actually 0.9 seconds, there is a tooltip error I believe - so the DPS I get by casting it is:
1234+(1234+3%)+(1271+3%)+(1309+3%)+(1348+303%)=10 596 +10% (0.9s cast speed)->11 655,6 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Now here's Relentless Focus with the same gear etc:
17 808 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Problem is, at the moment you have to recast it again after using it, which means for every Assassin's Scourge you cast you spend another GCD doing no damage recasting the Relentless Focus. This means we cut in half the 17 808, leaving us with 8904 DPS.
If it didn't require recasting the ability after using the proc, we'd gain a significant DPS boost after every 4 light attacks - this would mesh well with the "burst damage" playstyle of stamina nightblade, without really affecting PvP too much.
How much exactly would our DPS increase by? Well, if we do one Rapid Strikes+LA rotation roughly every 1,2 seconds, it'd take 4,8 seconds to get a proc of Relentless Focus - which deals 6152.4 DPS more (11 655,6-17 808) than a Rapid Strikes rotation.
Divided by 4,8, that'd result in an average of 1281.75 DPS increase.
Not counting mitigation/crits.
It's a start.
Simple Solution: Cast it only once every 20 seconds, and shoot it once, when your on your offbar anyway.
Its always worth having it up, with minor berserk and minor endurance.
I think it would be an aweasome Damage increase, if we can shoot it multiple times. But i thin its not a damage loss if you just keep it up, instead of recasting it after every shot.
Thats the way i play it right now, and its alredy a DPS win.
Or just have your healers combat prayer you - if they're good and your raid is organized, it's up 24/7 & you don't waste DPS by casting Relentless Focus.
lmao, so, do you rely on your tank to give you your Magic Damage Buff?
Ofc its true that in an optimal Situation, you would have 100% Uptime of Combat Prayer, but that would require 2 Healers(which we dont even have in ALL Sitations) And Stacking, or for the Healer to use combat Prayer excessivly.
So in real, you will have an avarage of about 50-70% Uptime for Prayer, Depending on your Healers skill and dedication.
I dont believe there is ANY groupe, that has 100% Uptime Combat Prayer over all 10-8 DDs, especially in the new Trial.
So beeing self reliant is quite a good choice, and will boost your DPS in most Situations.
The 10% Stam Reg Buff is quite nice as well.
And that one Damage cast should make up for casting Focus once every 20 Seconds.
It wont be a Huge DPS Win, but the Buffs will, in the end, probably boost your DPS.
And even if you get 100% Uptime Combat Prayer, the one time Hit and the Stam Reg should make up for the Cast Time, especially as you can swap cancle it.
It doesn't though, I laid out the math on my previous post. "Swap cancel" makes no difference, you still get that 1s global cooldown between using skills.
You'd have to make up for 2752 worth of damage (11 655.6-8904) with that +8% damage buff (and not have it from your healers already) for it to be a DPS increase. Granted, this is quite easy to do if your base DPS without it is around the 25k~ marker, it'd only take 2 seconds of uptime with that buff.
The only times it's really worth casting is when you're not in melee range of a boss (e.g. when swapping sides at 2nd bosses in vMoL). There are quite a few of these cases to be honest, but the ability is still not as useful as it should be (when compared to other classes abilities that grant a significant DPS boost, e.g. Venomous Claw or Hurricane.
I don't understand why it can't refresh the duration when you land the skill, Burning Embers works this way, as does Rally.
Probably because the secondary effects of Burning Embers and Rally work different and are healing effects, not damage effects.
By different i mean that Rally and Embers would give that heal anyway, after its running out. Focus not.
My guess is just that they dont want Focus to be a damage spell, but a buff spell.
And in PVP, that 8% Dmg and 10% Reg are already good
. Tank/DD with Hof HM clear0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just laughed about "the lack of sustain" stamina NBs have. Maybe we should compare sustain from all classes:
Stamina NB
- Refreshing Shadows: increase all regeneration by 15%
- Siphoning Attacks: light and heavy attacks (everyone should weave them in anyways) restore 999 magicka and stamina, all other direct dmg got a 10% chance to restore 1999 magicka and stamina (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Temp
- Restoring Spirit: reduces magicka, stamina and ultimate costs by 4%
- Repentance: restores 795 health and stamina to you from corpses to you AND your allies, not usefull during most bossfights because you need corpses and since healers are running this, every stam build gets the benefit (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Sorc
- Unholy Knowledge: reduces magicka and stamina costs by 5%
- Daedric Protection: increases health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning abillity slotted
Stamina DK
- Battleroar: activating an ultimate restores 70% of the ultimates cost as health, magicka and stamina
- Helping Hands: activating an Earthen Heart abillity restores 5% stamina
Yes, DK passives gives awesome sustain and they don't have to waste time for activating a skill like NBs have to. But comparing Temps and Sorcs with NBs, the NB has way better sustain imo. 1k ressources everytime you light attack? So basiclly everytime you are using a skill because of weaving. Thats an awesome sustain tool and I would trade in every passive Temps or Sorcs have in terms of sustain everytime.
Oh and comparing damage would end in a similar way. Yes stam DKs are OP but temps? What's giving them good dmg? Jbs is outdps'ed by flurry. Power of the Light? Nice skill but nothing that would make them OP. And stamsorc with Hurricane? It's a nice skill, especially for AoE but it's not that good that you can say sorcs would have better dps then stam NBs. And for the passives: temps have the same critt multiplier then NBs +6% weapon dmg but NBs have more critt with Pressure Points. Sorcs have 5% more physical dmg and more stamina with Bound Armaments. And for group buffs: NBs have Hemorrhage, every other stam build benefits from this buff.
Here's the thing, you're mostly comparing an active ability you have to slot to passives.
Slotting Siphoning Attacks does not give you any DPS increase whatsoever & in fact if you rely on it for sustain, you lose DPS every 15 seconds because you spend a GCD buffing yourself.
When you compare the passives alone, NB is the clear loser when it comes to sustain (well, kinda close with Templars).
Not that sustain really matters, just reroll Redguard & you'll never run out of stamina...
As for why other classes are better DPS, it's really simple: they have better offensive passives.
Here's how the passives boost DPS for each class:
Nightblade- +10% Weapon/Spell Damage while sneaking/invisible - never active in PvE.
- +2% Crit for slotting an Assassination ability - only one worth slotting on main bar is Killer's Blade, so +2% crit
- +10% Critical Strike Damage
- 20 Ultimate after drinking a potion - 2.25 ulti/s
- 2 Ultimate after using a Siphoning Ability, 4s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - no Siphoning abilities that boost your DPS as stamblade
Templar- 10% Critical Strike Damage
- +6% Weapon Damage
- +3 Ultimate after using a Dawn's Wrath Ability, 6s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - activated with Power of the Light
- -4% Ultimate costs
Sorcerer- -15% Ultimate Costs
- +5% Physical Damage
- Between 30-50% chance every second of passively proccing a 20k+ tooltip execute (more damage than a Killer's Blade cast) when target is at 15% or below
- +4% weapon damage (for having Hurricane & Bound Armaments slotted)
- +8% Max Stamina (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
- +11% Heavy Attack Damage (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
Skills wise, the only thing worth slotting from Nightblade skills is Killer's Blade, an execute that deals less damage (even at <25% health) than Executioner. A stamblade DPS from 25%->0% is less than Stam DK DPS from 100%->0%. 'Nuf said.
Note: you also want to slot Relentless Focus on 2nd bar to activate the +10% Critical Strike damage passive, but it's not worth actually casting if you want to increase your DPS.
Other than that, we're the same as other classes - except with worse passives.
Ok, heres the thing: Relentless Fcosu Sclaes somehow with max Stats, means, its damage increases when i use a Weapon Damage
Pot. Thats on live. It Hits for ~15k per tooltip. Next Patch it scales with Mighty and Armor Pen, so it Hits for ~20-25k.
Then its always worth to have the 8% Overall Daage Buff up. Nw you may say 'Combat Prayer'. I say: YOu cant depend on Combat Praer to be Activ 100%, especially in Raids, where the Healers have other stuff to do then spamming Combat Prayer.
Next thing, we Stamblades get Incap Strike with Disease Damage. That may be a Nuff for mainly PVP, but stam blades in PVE als can use it. it hits for around 25k i guess. and it gives you a 6 second major Damage Buff.
You can use it like every 20 seconds i guess. I think its worth Slotting it in the 2nd Bar, and use in in Singlearget Situations.
If there is more then 1 enemy, ofc, Dawnbreaker is Stronger.
Means we have a Choice.
So for the Title:
i think Stam Blades are viable in PVE, only not as strong as Stam dks, or Magika Builds.
But a good player can probably with ease Produce 30k+ DPS against eg. a Mantikora.
Casting Relentless Focus is a DPS loss, here is why (from Nightblade feedback thread) and a solution on how to make it a viable part of DPS rotation:Elevenstorm wrote: »In competitive trial groups relentless focus and their morphs are always a dps loss. Healers are giving you the same buff you get from that ability. This is where stamblades need the most help! Competitive end game trials. Our dps is too low to be competitive so we need something to augment it. As a redguard I do not ever have problems with stamina and I run 3 wep damage glyphs on my jewelry. Stamblades need higher single target sustained dps without buffing the burst potential as we are already too strong at that. Agreed that the passives could be looked at to help us in this arena as a couple could be changed to help stamina as well as in their current state of only magicka.
It's a DPS loss because you need to rebuff after using the proc. If you didn't have to rebuff yourself after using it, it would be a DPS increase as it deals quite a lot of damage (especially now that they made it scale with MIghty).
For comparison's sake, here's Rapid Strikes:
The cast time is actually 0.9 seconds, there is a tooltip error I believe - so the DPS I get by casting it is:
1234+(1234+3%)+(1271+3%)+(1309+3%)+(1348+303%)=10 596 +10% (0.9s cast speed)->11 655,6 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Now here's Relentless Focus with the same gear etc:
17 808 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Problem is, at the moment you have to recast it again after using it, which means for every Assassin's Scourge you cast you spend another GCD doing no damage recasting the Relentless Focus. This means we cut in half the 17 808, leaving us with 8904 DPS.
If it didn't require recasting the ability after using the proc, we'd gain a significant DPS boost after every 4 light attacks - this would mesh well with the "burst damage" playstyle of stamina nightblade, without really affecting PvP too much.
How much exactly would our DPS increase by? Well, if we do one Rapid Strikes+LA rotation roughly every 1,2 seconds, it'd take 4,8 seconds to get a proc of Relentless Focus - which deals 6152.4 DPS more (11 655,6-17 808) than a Rapid Strikes rotation.
Divided by 4,8, that'd result in an average of 1281.75 DPS increase.
Not counting mitigation/crits.
It's a start.
Simple Solution: Cast it only once every 20 seconds, and shoot it once, when your on your offbar anyway.
Its always worth having it up, with minor berserk and minor endurance.
I think it would be an aweasome Damage increase, if we can shoot it multiple times. But i thin its not a damage loss if you just keep it up, instead of recasting it after every shot.
Thats the way i play it right now, and its alredy a DPS win.
Or just have your healers combat prayer you - if they're good and your raid is organized, it's up 24/7 & you don't waste DPS by casting Relentless Focus.
lmao, so, do you rely on your tank to give you your Magic Damage Buff?
Ofc its true that in an optimal Situation, you would have 100% Uptime of Combat Prayer, but that would require 2 Healers(which we dont even have in ALL Sitations) And Stacking, or for the Healer to use combat Prayer excessivly.
So in real, you will have an avarage of about 50-70% Uptime for Prayer, Depending on your Healers skill and dedication.
I dont believe there is ANY groupe, that has 100% Uptime Combat Prayer over all 10-8 DDs, especially in the new Trial.
So beeing self reliant is quite a good choice, and will boost your DPS in most Situations.
The 10% Stam Reg Buff is quite nice as well.
And that one Damage cast should make up for casting Focus once every 20 Seconds.
It wont be a Huge DPS Win, but the Buffs will, in the end, probably boost your DPS.
And even if you get 100% Uptime Combat Prayer, the one time Hit and the Stam Reg should make up for the Cast Time, especially as you can swap cancle it.
It doesn't though, I laid out the math on my previous post. "Swap cancel" makes no difference, you still get that 1s global cooldown between using skills.
You'd have to make up for 2752 worth of damage (11 655.6-8904) with that +8% damage buff (and not have it from your healers already) for it to be a DPS increase. Granted, this is quite easy to do if your base DPS without it is around the 25k~ marker, it'd only take 2 seconds of uptime with that buff.
The only times it's really worth casting is when you're not in melee range of a boss (e.g. when swapping sides at 2nd bosses in vMoL). There are quite a few of these cases to be honest, but the ability is still not as useful as it should be (when compared to other classes abilities that grant a significant DPS boost, e.g. Venomous Claw or Hurricane.
I don't understand why it can't refresh the duration when you land the skill, Burning Embers works this way, as does Rally.
Probably because the secondary effects of Burning Embers and Rally work different and are healing effects, not damage effects.
By different i mean that Rally and Embers would give that heal anyway, after its running out. Focus not.
My guess is just that they dont want Focus to be a damage spell, but a buff spell.
And in PVP, that 8% Dmg and 10% Reg are already good.
The 8% Dmg is always on in any good PvE group anyway and the 10% Reg is also available to all classes through Guild skills as well as weapon skills.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I just laughed about "the lack of sustain" stamina NBs have. Maybe we should compare sustain from all classes:
Stamina NB
- Refreshing Shadows: increase all regeneration by 15%
- Siphoning Attacks: light and heavy attacks (everyone should weave them in anyways) restore 999 magicka and stamina, all other direct dmg got a 10% chance to restore 1999 magicka and stamina (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Temp
- Restoring Spirit: reduces magicka, stamina and ultimate costs by 4%
- Repentance: restores 795 health and stamina to you from corpses to you AND your allies, not usefull during most bossfights because you need corpses and since healers are running this, every stam build gets the benefit (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Sorc
- Unholy Knowledge: reduces magicka and stamina costs by 5%
- Daedric Protection: increases health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning abillity slotted
Stamina DK
- Battleroar: activating an ultimate restores 70% of the ultimates cost as health, magicka and stamina
- Helping Hands: activating an Earthen Heart abillity restores 5% stamina
Yes, DK passives gives awesome sustain and they don't have to waste time for activating a skill like NBs have to. But comparing Temps and Sorcs with NBs, the NB has way better sustain imo. 1k ressources everytime you light attack? So basiclly everytime you are using a skill because of weaving. Thats an awesome sustain tool and I would trade in every passive Temps or Sorcs have in terms of sustain everytime.
Oh and comparing damage would end in a similar way. Yes stam DKs are OP but temps? What's giving them good dmg? Jbs is outdps'ed by flurry. Power of the Light? Nice skill but nothing that would make them OP. And stamsorc with Hurricane? It's a nice skill, especially for AoE but it's not that good that you can say sorcs would have better dps then stam NBs. And for the passives: temps have the same critt multiplier then NBs +6% weapon dmg but NBs have more critt with Pressure Points. Sorcs have 5% more physical dmg and more stamina with Bound Armaments. And for group buffs: NBs have Hemorrhage, every other stam build benefits from this buff.
Here's the thing, you're mostly comparing an active ability you have to slot to passives.
Slotting Siphoning Attacks does not give you any DPS increase whatsoever & in fact if you rely on it for sustain, you lose DPS every 15 seconds because you spend a GCD buffing yourself.
When you compare the passives alone, NB is the clear loser when it comes to sustain (well, kinda close with Templars).
Not that sustain really matters, just reroll Redguard & you'll never run out of stamina...
As for why other classes are better DPS, it's really simple: they have better offensive passives.
Here's how the passives boost DPS for each class:
Nightblade- +10% Weapon/Spell Damage while sneaking/invisible - never active in PvE.
- +2% Crit for slotting an Assassination ability - only one worth slotting on main bar is Killer's Blade, so +2% crit
- +10% Critical Strike Damage
- 20 Ultimate after drinking a potion - 2.25 ulti/s
- 2 Ultimate after using a Siphoning Ability, 4s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - no Siphoning abilities that boost your DPS as stamblade
Templar- 10% Critical Strike Damage
- +6% Weapon Damage
- +3 Ultimate after using a Dawn's Wrath Ability, 6s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - activated with Power of the Light
- -4% Ultimate costs
Sorcerer- -15% Ultimate Costs
- +5% Physical Damage
- Between 30-50% chance every second of passively proccing a 20k+ tooltip execute (more damage than a Killer's Blade cast) when target is at 15% or below
- +4% weapon damage (for having Hurricane & Bound Armaments slotted)
- +8% Max Stamina (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
- +11% Heavy Attack Damage (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
Skills wise, the only thing worth slotting from Nightblade skills is Killer's Blade, an execute that deals less damage (even at <25% health) than Executioner. A stamblade DPS from 25%->0% is less than Stam DK DPS from 100%->0%. 'Nuf said.
Note: you also want to slot Relentless Focus on 2nd bar to activate the +10% Critical Strike damage passive, but it's not worth actually casting if you want to increase your DPS.
Other than that, we're the same as other classes - except with worse passives.
Ok, heres the thing: Relentless Fcosu Sclaes somehow with max Stats, means, its damage increases when i use a Weapon Damage
Pot. Thats on live. It Hits for ~15k per tooltip. Next Patch it scales with Mighty and Armor Pen, so it Hits for ~20-25k.
Then its always worth to have the 8% Overall Daage Buff up. Nw you may say 'Combat Prayer'. I say: YOu cant depend on Combat Praer to be Activ 100%, especially in Raids, where the Healers have other stuff to do then spamming Combat Prayer.
Next thing, we Stamblades get Incap Strike with Disease Damage. That may be a Nuff for mainly PVP, but stam blades in PVE als can use it. it hits for around 25k i guess. and it gives you a 6 second major Damage Buff.
You can use it like every 20 seconds i guess. I think its worth Slotting it in the 2nd Bar, and use in in Singlearget Situations.
If there is more then 1 enemy, ofc, Dawnbreaker is Stronger.
Means we have a Choice.
So for the Title:
i think Stam Blades are viable in PVE, only not as strong as Stam dks, or Magika Builds.
But a good player can probably with ease Produce 30k+ DPS against eg. a Mantikora.
Casting Relentless Focus is a DPS loss, here is why (from Nightblade feedback thread) and a solution on how to make it a viable part of DPS rotation:Elevenstorm wrote: »In competitive trial groups relentless focus and their morphs are always a dps loss. Healers are giving you the same buff you get from that ability. This is where stamblades need the most help! Competitive end game trials. Our dps is too low to be competitive so we need something to augment it. As a redguard I do not ever have problems with stamina and I run 3 wep damage glyphs on my jewelry. Stamblades need higher single target sustained dps without buffing the burst potential as we are already too strong at that. Agreed that the passives could be looked at to help us in this arena as a couple could be changed to help stamina as well as in their current state of only magicka.
It's a DPS loss because you need to rebuff after using the proc. If you didn't have to rebuff yourself after using it, it would be a DPS increase as it deals quite a lot of damage (especially now that they made it scale with MIghty).
For comparison's sake, here's Rapid Strikes:
The cast time is actually 0.9 seconds, there is a tooltip error I believe - so the DPS I get by casting it is:
1234+(1234+3%)+(1271+3%)+(1309+3%)+(1348+303%)=10 596 +10% (0.9s cast speed)->11 655,6 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Now here's Relentless Focus with the same gear etc:
17 808 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Problem is, at the moment you have to recast it again after using it, which means for every Assassin's Scourge you cast you spend another GCD doing no damage recasting the Relentless Focus. This means we cut in half the 17 808, leaving us with 8904 DPS.
If it didn't require recasting the ability after using the proc, we'd gain a significant DPS boost after every 4 light attacks - this would mesh well with the "burst damage" playstyle of stamina nightblade, without really affecting PvP too much.
How much exactly would our DPS increase by? Well, if we do one Rapid Strikes+LA rotation roughly every 1,2 seconds, it'd take 4,8 seconds to get a proc of Relentless Focus - which deals 6152.4 DPS more (11 655,6-17 808) than a Rapid Strikes rotation.
Divided by 4,8, that'd result in an average of 1281.75 DPS increase.
Not counting mitigation/crits.
It's a start.
Simple Solution: Cast it only once every 20 seconds, and shoot it once, when your on your offbar anyway.
Its always worth having it up, with minor berserk and minor endurance.
I think it would be an aweasome Damage increase, if we can shoot it multiple times. But i thin its not a damage loss if you just keep it up, instead of recasting it after every shot.
Thats the way i play it right now, and its alredy a DPS win.
Or just have your healers combat prayer you - if they're good and your raid is organized, it's up 24/7 & you don't waste DPS by casting Relentless Focus.
lmao, so, do you rely on your tank to give you your Magic Damage Buff?
Ofc its true that in an optimal Situation, you would have 100% Uptime of Combat Prayer, but that would require 2 Healers(which we dont even have in ALL Sitations) And Stacking, or for the Healer to use combat Prayer excessivly.
So in real, you will have an avarage of about 50-70% Uptime for Prayer, Depending on your Healers skill and dedication.
I dont believe there is ANY groupe, that has 100% Uptime Combat Prayer over all 10-8 DDs, especially in the new Trial.
So beeing self reliant is quite a good choice, and will boost your DPS in most Situations.
The 10% Stam Reg Buff is quite nice as well.
And that one Damage cast should make up for casting Focus once every 20 Seconds.
It wont be a Huge DPS Win, but the Buffs will, in the end, probably boost your DPS.
And even if you get 100% Uptime Combat Prayer, the one time Hit and the Stam Reg should make up for the Cast Time, especially as you can swap cancle it.
It doesn't though, I laid out the math on my previous post. "Swap cancel" makes no difference, you still get that 1s global cooldown between using skills.
You'd have to make up for 2752 worth of damage (11 655.6-8904) with that +8% damage buff (and not have it from your healers already) for it to be a DPS increase. Granted, this is quite easy to do if your base DPS without it is around the 25k~ marker, it'd only take 2 seconds of uptime with that buff.
The only times it's really worth casting is when you're not in melee range of a boss (e.g. when swapping sides at 2nd bosses in vMoL). There are quite a few of these cases to be honest, but the ability is still not as useful as it should be (when compared to other classes abilities that grant a significant DPS boost, e.g. Venomous Claw or Hurricane.
I don't understand why it can't refresh the duration when you land the skill, Burning Embers works this way, as does Rally.
Probably because the secondary effects of Burning Embers and Rally work different and are healing effects, not damage effects.
By different i mean that Rally and Embers would give that heal anyway, after its running out. Focus not.
My guess is just that they dont want Focus to be a damage spell, but a buff spell.
And in PVP, that 8% Dmg and 10% Reg are already good.
What does that have to do with anything? The point is that using Relentless Focus is a DPS loss in most scenarios due to the clunkiness of having to recast it every time after using it - clunkiness that is not there with other buffs that have an active component.
As it stands, it's another underperforming tool in the NB toolkit, another reason why we're the worst PvE DPS in the game.
Yes, it's strong in PvP (or atleast the buff part) - but it's clunky there as well (like many other NB skills). Making it reapply itself upon landing (just like Burning Embers, Rally) the shot wouldn't increase the burst potential of NBs, as the projectile is still tied to landing 4 light attacks - it'd just mean you spend slightly less time rebuffing yourself. There's enough buffs already to constantly keep reapplying with Siphoning Attacks & Shuffle (which reapplies itself as well when you use the active "remove snares" component) on your skill bar.Edited by DDuke on May 30, 2016 3:48PM0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I just laughed about "the lack of sustain" stamina NBs have. Maybe we should compare sustain from all classes:
Stamina NB
- Refreshing Shadows: increase all regeneration by 15%
- Siphoning Attacks: light and heavy attacks (everyone should weave them in anyways) restore 999 magicka and stamina, all other direct dmg got a 10% chance to restore 1999 magicka and stamina (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Temp
- Restoring Spirit: reduces magicka, stamina and ultimate costs by 4%
- Repentance: restores 795 health and stamina to you from corpses to you AND your allies, not usefull during most bossfights because you need corpses and since healers are running this, every stam build gets the benefit (tooltip values from eso-skillfactory.com)
Stamina Sorc
- Unholy Knowledge: reduces magicka and stamina costs by 5%
- Daedric Protection: increases health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning abillity slotted
Stamina DK
- Battleroar: activating an ultimate restores 70% of the ultimates cost as health, magicka and stamina
- Helping Hands: activating an Earthen Heart abillity restores 5% stamina
Yes, DK passives gives awesome sustain and they don't have to waste time for activating a skill like NBs have to. But comparing Temps and Sorcs with NBs, the NB has way better sustain imo. 1k ressources everytime you light attack? So basiclly everytime you are using a skill because of weaving. Thats an awesome sustain tool and I would trade in every passive Temps or Sorcs have in terms of sustain everytime.
Oh and comparing damage would end in a similar way. Yes stam DKs are OP but temps? What's giving them good dmg? Jbs is outdps'ed by flurry. Power of the Light? Nice skill but nothing that would make them OP. And stamsorc with Hurricane? It's a nice skill, especially for AoE but it's not that good that you can say sorcs would have better dps then stam NBs. And for the passives: temps have the same critt multiplier then NBs +6% weapon dmg but NBs have more critt with Pressure Points. Sorcs have 5% more physical dmg and more stamina with Bound Armaments. And for group buffs: NBs have Hemorrhage, every other stam build benefits from this buff.
Here's the thing, you're mostly comparing an active ability you have to slot to passives.
Slotting Siphoning Attacks does not give you any DPS increase whatsoever & in fact if you rely on it for sustain, you lose DPS every 15 seconds because you spend a GCD buffing yourself.
When you compare the passives alone, NB is the clear loser when it comes to sustain (well, kinda close with Templars).
Not that sustain really matters, just reroll Redguard & you'll never run out of stamina...
As for why other classes are better DPS, it's really simple: they have better offensive passives.
Here's how the passives boost DPS for each class:
Nightblade- +10% Weapon/Spell Damage while sneaking/invisible - never active in PvE.
- +2% Crit for slotting an Assassination ability - only one worth slotting on main bar is Killer's Blade, so +2% crit
- +10% Critical Strike Damage
- 20 Ultimate after drinking a potion - 2.25 ulti/s
- 2 Ultimate after using a Siphoning Ability, 4s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - no Siphoning abilities that boost your DPS as stamblade
Templar- 10% Critical Strike Damage
- +6% Weapon Damage
- +3 Ultimate after using a Dawn's Wrath Ability, 6s cooldown (0,5 ulti/s) - activated with Power of the Light
- -4% Ultimate costs
Sorcerer- -15% Ultimate Costs
- +5% Physical Damage
- Between 30-50% chance every second of passively proccing a 20k+ tooltip execute (more damage than a Killer's Blade cast) when target is at 15% or below
- +4% weapon damage (for having Hurricane & Bound Armaments slotted)
- +8% Max Stamina (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
- +11% Heavy Attack Damage (Bound Armaments - practically a passive since you dont have to cast it)
Skills wise, the only thing worth slotting from Nightblade skills is Killer's Blade, an execute that deals less damage (even at <25% health) than Executioner. A stamblade DPS from 25%->0% is less than Stam DK DPS from 100%->0%. 'Nuf said.
Note: you also want to slot Relentless Focus on 2nd bar to activate the +10% Critical Strike damage passive, but it's not worth actually casting if you want to increase your DPS.
Other than that, we're the same as other classes - except with worse passives.
Ok, heres the thing: Relentless Fcosu Sclaes somehow with max Stats, means, its damage increases when i use a Weapon Damage
Pot. Thats on live. It Hits for ~15k per tooltip. Next Patch it scales with Mighty and Armor Pen, so it Hits for ~20-25k.
Then its always worth to have the 8% Overall Daage Buff up. Nw you may say 'Combat Prayer'. I say: YOu cant depend on Combat Praer to be Activ 100%, especially in Raids, where the Healers have other stuff to do then spamming Combat Prayer.
Next thing, we Stamblades get Incap Strike with Disease Damage. That may be a Nuff for mainly PVP, but stam blades in PVE als can use it. it hits for around 25k i guess. and it gives you a 6 second major Damage Buff.
You can use it like every 20 seconds i guess. I think its worth Slotting it in the 2nd Bar, and use in in Singlearget Situations.
If there is more then 1 enemy, ofc, Dawnbreaker is Stronger.
Means we have a Choice.
So for the Title:
i think Stam Blades are viable in PVE, only not as strong as Stam dks, or Magika Builds.
But a good player can probably with ease Produce 30k+ DPS against eg. a Mantikora.
Casting Relentless Focus is a DPS loss, here is why (from Nightblade feedback thread) and a solution on how to make it a viable part of DPS rotation:Elevenstorm wrote: »In competitive trial groups relentless focus and their morphs are always a dps loss. Healers are giving you the same buff you get from that ability. This is where stamblades need the most help! Competitive end game trials. Our dps is too low to be competitive so we need something to augment it. As a redguard I do not ever have problems with stamina and I run 3 wep damage glyphs on my jewelry. Stamblades need higher single target sustained dps without buffing the burst potential as we are already too strong at that. Agreed that the passives could be looked at to help us in this arena as a couple could be changed to help stamina as well as in their current state of only magicka.
It's a DPS loss because you need to rebuff after using the proc. If you didn't have to rebuff yourself after using it, it would be a DPS increase as it deals quite a lot of damage (especially now that they made it scale with MIghty).
For comparison's sake, here's Rapid Strikes:
The cast time is actually 0.9 seconds, there is a tooltip error I believe - so the DPS I get by casting it is:
1234+(1234+3%)+(1271+3%)+(1309+3%)+(1348+303%)=10 596 +10% (0.9s cast speed)->11 655,6 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Now here's Relentless Focus with the same gear etc:
17 808 DPS
Not counting mitigation/crits.
Problem is, at the moment you have to recast it again after using it, which means for every Assassin's Scourge you cast you spend another GCD doing no damage recasting the Relentless Focus. This means we cut in half the 17 808, leaving us with 8904 DPS.
If it didn't require recasting the ability after using the proc, we'd gain a significant DPS boost after every 4 light attacks - this would mesh well with the "burst damage" playstyle of stamina nightblade, without really affecting PvP too much.
How much exactly would our DPS increase by? Well, if we do one Rapid Strikes+LA rotation roughly every 1,2 seconds, it'd take 4,8 seconds to get a proc of Relentless Focus - which deals 6152.4 DPS more (11 655,6-17 808) than a Rapid Strikes rotation.
Divided by 4,8, that'd result in an average of 1281.75 DPS increase.
Not counting mitigation/crits.
It's a start.
Simple Solution: Cast it only once every 20 seconds, and shoot it once, when your on your offbar anyway.
Its always worth having it up, with minor berserk and minor endurance.
I think it would be an aweasome Damage increase, if we can shoot it multiple times. But i thin its not a damage loss if you just keep it up, instead of recasting it after every shot.
Thats the way i play it right now, and its alredy a DPS win.
Or just have your healers combat prayer you - if they're good and your raid is organized, it's up 24/7 & you don't waste DPS by casting Relentless Focus.
lmao, so, do you rely on your tank to give you your Magic Damage Buff?
Ofc its true that in an optimal Situation, you would have 100% Uptime of Combat Prayer, but that would require 2 Healers(which we dont even have in ALL Sitations) And Stacking, or for the Healer to use combat Prayer excessivly.
So in real, you will have an avarage of about 50-70% Uptime for Prayer, Depending on your Healers skill and dedication.
I dont believe there is ANY groupe, that has 100% Uptime Combat Prayer over all 10-8 DDs, especially in the new Trial.
So beeing self reliant is quite a good choice, and will boost your DPS in most Situations.
The 10% Stam Reg Buff is quite nice as well.
And that one Damage cast should make up for casting Focus once every 20 Seconds.
It wont be a Huge DPS Win, but the Buffs will, in the end, probably boost your DPS.
And even if you get 100% Uptime Combat Prayer, the one time Hit and the Stam Reg should make up for the Cast Time, especially as you can swap cancle it.
It doesn't though, I laid out the math on my previous post. "Swap cancel" makes no difference, you still get that 1s global cooldown between using skills.
You'd have to make up for 2752 worth of damage (11 655.6-8904) with that +8% damage buff (and not have it from your healers already) for it to be a DPS increase. Granted, this is quite easy to do if your base DPS without it is around the 25k~ marker, it'd only take 2 seconds of uptime with that buff.
The only times it's really worth casting is when you're not in melee range of a boss (e.g. when swapping sides at 2nd bosses in vMoL). There are quite a few of these cases to be honest, but the ability is still not as useful as it should be (when compared to other classes abilities that grant a significant DPS boost, e.g. Venomous Claw or Hurricane.
I don't understand why it can't refresh the duration when you land the skill, Burning Embers works this way, as does Rally.
Probably because the secondary effects of Burning Embers and Rally work different and are healing effects, not damage effects.
By different i mean that Rally and Embers would give that heal anyway, after its running out. Focus not.
My guess is just that they dont want Focus to be a damage spell, but a buff spell.
And in PVP, that 8% Dmg and 10% Reg are already good.
What does that have to do with anything? The point is that using Relentless Focus is a DPS loss in most scenarios due to the clunkiness of having to recast it every time after using it - clunkiness that is not there with other buffs that have an active component.
As it stands, it's another underperforming tool in the NB toolkit, another reason why we're the worst PvE DPS in the game.
Yes, it's strong in PvP (or atleast the buff part) - but it's clunky there as well (like many other NB skills). Making it reapply itself upon landing (just like Burning Embers, Rally) the shot wouldn't increase the burst potential of NBs, as the projectile is still tied to landing 4 light attacks - it'd just mean you spend slightly less time rebuffing yourself. There's enough buffs already to constantly keep reapplying with Siphoning Attacks & Shuffle (which reapplies itself as well when you use the active "remove snares" component) on your skill bar.
What if Grim Focus was altered to a stacking DoT/explosion type move. You'd apply Grim Focus and for each light/heavy attack the target would get a stacking DoT up to X amount of stacks before exploding for X amount of magic/disease damage (depending on the morph). Sort of like the Galerion's Revenge set, except actually worth using.Argonian forever0 -
Stamina NBs, currently, are the second last class in PvE in terms of DPS (Stamina Sorcs are a close last and clearly need SERIOUS help as well).
Stamina NBs lack several things which are needed in PvE.- Lack of proper sustain - The Stamina NBs' self sustain got a huge hit from the nerf to Siphoning Strikes indirect procs. Now it is impossible to maintain sustain, while maintaining a standard DPS rate, without a templar's help. Most of Stamina Nightblade damage comes from direct abilities due to lack of class based DoTs and hence drain stamina very fast.
- Lack of defensive abilities - The sheer lack of defensive of defensive abilities makes StamNBs rely a lot on dodging and blocking which add to the stamina drain
- Lack of survival skills - Stamina don't have access to any self-heals or even any buffs that increase self-healing and a burden to healers.
- Lack of use from class skills :- Most of the class skill morphs of Stamina NBs cater to small scale PvP and are not of much use in PvE.
- Ambush is useless in PvE.
- Suprise Attack is outdone in DPS severely by weapon skills in PvE.
- Power Extraction is outdone in DPS severely by weapon skills.
- Relentless Focus is usefull but only for the Minor Endurance buff as the Minor Berserk buff is already on at all times in groups due to Healer's running Combat Prayer.
- Soul Harvest deals magic damage and hence of not much use.
- Incapacitating Strike's stun is useless in PvE.
- Killer's Blade is the only useful ability in a Stamblade's kit.
- Lack of utility for groups - There is nothing in the Stamblades' kit that help the group. The debuffs are already covered by tanks.
- Not getting much use from passives :-
- Executioner - Killing an enemy with an Assassination ability restores 1428 Magicka over 6 seconds.
- Magicka Flood - Increases Max Magicka by 8% while a Siphoning ability is slotted.
- Soul Siphoner - Increases the effectiveness of your healing done by 3% for each Siphoning ability slotted.
- Transfer - Activating a Siphoning ability grants 2 additional Ultimate. This effect has a 4 second cooldown.
Lets breakdown the current advantages of other classes in PvE.
Magicka Nightblade - Great sustain and very high DPS. Heals allies with DPS. Extreme ultimate build up rates.
Stamina DK - Very high DPS due to availability of extremely powerful DoTs and good sustain. Great survivability.
Magicka Templar - High DPS, extreme survivability and great utility to groups with shards, repentance etc. Hands down the best healer.
Stamina Templar - High DPS, great survivabilty, good sustain and good utility to groups with repentance.
Magicka Sorcs - Very high but unstable DPS.
Magicka DK - High DPS, great survivability.
Stamina Nightblade - Strong initial burst but that's it.
Stamina Sorcerer - Good survivability depending on situations but that's it.
As you can see, there is hardly anything good going for Stamina Nightblades currently.
On the other hard, they are a burden to group as they need constant help for sustain as well as survival.
It is makes no sense for a class without any defense or survivability to be impaired in damage dealing capabilities as well.
The changes that is being made for Stamina Nightblades, is pigeon holing them in to PvP ganking and small group skirmish. That is the only thing Stamina Nightblades are good at and that is not very healthy either.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I would like to assure you that Stamina NBs are very viable in PVE and even can achieve some of the highest DPS in the game. Gilliam the Rogue has a great guide and is in one of the premier raiding guilds for PC. The guide for his build can be found here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243441/end-game-stamina-nightblade-build-pve-dps-mostly-up-to-date-for-dbh-patch/p1
Personally, I use my stamina NB for mostly PVP and use bow and 2h but have still found great success running end game dungeons such as WGT and ICP with these weapons even though dual wield is much better than 2h for PVE. I will explain how I have found success:
Race: Khajiit. I personally like Khajiit but they are not the best in terms of stamina recovery or max stamina but next DLC it seems they are getting a buff for both of these plus they are keeping the 8% critical passive carnage.
Gear: All medium or 5/1/1 if you have undaunted passives. 5 Hundings Rage including weapons, 2 Leki, 1 Kena, 3 Agility robust with weapon damage glyphs. This gives a pretty low stamina recovery but with Siphoning attacks this is not a big deal. I have all divines for my traits which is great for PVE and ganking in PVP but not great for open world PVP because it makes you squishy. I would recommend using the shadow mundus for PVP. For PVE I am not sure whether my set up would benefit from shadow or Thief. There is a mathematical way to find out which mundus is better but I don't understand it and I am not very good with math. For open world/1vX PVP I would make 5 pieces impenetrable instead of divines so you are less squishy.
PVP skill bar setups:
Bow I use poison injection, vigor, relentless focus, dark cloak, and shuffle. Ultimate: Bat Swarm
2H I use surprise attack, ambush, rally, executioner, and mass hysteria. Ultimate: Incapacitating Strike
PVE skill bar setups:
Bow: poison injection, vigor, relentless focus, arrow barrage/other morph, siphoning attacks. Ultimate: Flawless Dawnbreaker
2H: surprise attack, ambush, rally, executioner, and caltrops. Ultimate: Incapacitating Strike
Only one person needs to use caltrops because it does not stack so another skill can be used in place of this if another person in your group is running it. I use arrow barrage for the larger AOE because unless you are running with a tank that can keep the ads and bosses in place, they can easily move out of the other morph. Even though the other morph deals greater damage, if the target moves out of it, you are now doing 0 dps. As a nightblade, you don't need much recovery because you should be using siphoning attacks and light attack weaving in-between every skill used! it is tough to learn how but once you do and you keep siphoning attacks up, resources will not be an issue even when running max foods instead of recovery.
The way I play is as follows:
- Know your role! Provide utility to the team with your ultimate's debuff, CC ads with caltrops and damage with arrow barrage, and single target DPS once your buffs and AOEs are up and running in order to kill priority targets even quicker.
- Keep up caltrops, arrow barrage, and poison injection DOTs, and keep up siphoning attacks at all times! Relentless focus and rally are your damage buffs.
- Debuff the enemy increasing damage taken using incapacitating strike. This is a 6 second debuff on the enemy for your whole team to take advantage of! I especially like using this right before a boss burn or execution.
- If range is needed, light attack with poison injection.
- If range is not needed, ambush, light attack, surprise attack, continue alternating light attacks and surprise attacks until the target is in execute, then alternate executioner with light attacks.
- Heal using vigor and rally so that you don't have to completely depend on a healer. You will make their job much easier!
- Take advantage of dodge rolling with the bow passive for increased mobility around the battle field. It also helps with healing because if you use vigor and rally then dodge roll 1 or 2 times, the heal over time works while you take no damage.
- Vampirism I keep in Stage 1 because the changes from DB make Stage 1 have NO NEGATIVE or positive benefits to having it. I only use stage 4 for PVP for clouding swarm and the passives. My ultimate for PVE is Flawless Dawnbreaker instead because it passively increases your weapon damage on your bow bar so that both my bow and greatsword weapon damage are sitting at around 3700 when buffed and out of stealth but will increase as I continue to make more pieces of gear gold. I will sometimes use mist form in PVP instead of fear and slot flawless dawnbreaker on my bow bar so that I still get the increased weapon damage as well as the vampire passives.
I sincerely hope this helps!!! I am by no means the best PVE Nightblade in the world and I am absolutely not min/maxed but I have found success with this and I hope you find success with your Stamina Nightblade as well!0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nice necroWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Nice necro
It is dead after 2 months? With a new patch, new information is available. Also, I am quite unaware as to the culture of these forums since I have just started to post, but in other forums I have been a part of, people would be upset if a new thread was created multiple times for the same topic. So maybe you could give me some insight into what kind of behavior is expected on these forums rather than being sarcastic with me.Edited by Rockndude on July 16, 2016 1:36AM1 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nice necro
It is dead after 2 months? With a new patch, new information is available. Also, I am quite unaware as to the culture of these forums since I have just started to post, but in other forums I have been a part of, people would be upset if a new thread was created multiple times for the same topic. So maybe you could give me some insight into what kind of behavior is expected on these forums rather than being sarcastic with me.
No you are right, I was unnecessarily rude to be honest. It's just that yea, stam nigtblades are quite good - as Stamina characters in general - but still behind Dks, tho closer than expected when 2.4 launched.
About this thread in particular, was posted before current patch and discusion on this sub are more about changes that are right now on the pts. Maybe it would have been better to find a thread on general discussions.Edited by SanTii.92 on July 16, 2016 1:58AMWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamina NB, stamina DK and stamina Sorc currently make the best DPS in top end competetive PvE with only a few thousand DPS seperating each of them. They can reach upwards of 50000 DPS and possibly beyond.
Next comes the magicka classes and the stamina Templar who are all floating around somewhere between 35000-45000 of potential DPS.
Besides that stamins NBs are perfectly fine clearing vMA. Infact they are probably the second strongest stamins class for that place.
Edit: Just realized this is an old thread but what I have said is currently the state of the classes in terms of DPS.Edited by Zinaroth on July 16, 2016 11:05AM0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamina NBs, currently, are the second last class in PvE in terms of DPS (Stamina Sorcs are a close last and clearly need SERIOUS help as well).
Stamina NBs lack several things which are needed in PvE.- Lack of proper sustain - The Stamina NBs' self sustain got a huge hit from the nerf to Siphoning Strikes indirect procs. Now it is impossible to maintain sustain, while maintaining a standard DPS rate, without a templar's help. Most of Stamina Nightblade damage comes from direct abilities due to lack of class based DoTs and hence drain stamina very fast.
- Lack of defensive abilities - The sheer lack of defensive of defensive abilities makes StamNBs rely a lot on dodging and blocking which add to the stamina drain
- Lack of survival skills - Stamina don't have access to any self-heals or even any buffs that increase self-healing and a burden to healers.
- Lack of use from class skills :- Most of the class skill morphs of Stamina NBs cater to small scale PvP and are not of much use in PvE.
- Ambush is useless in PvE.
- Suprise Attack is outdone in DPS severely by weapon skills in PvE.
- Power Extraction is outdone in DPS severely by weapon skills.
- Relentless Focus is usefull but only for the Minor Endurance buff as the Minor Berserk buff is already on at all times in groups due to Healer's running Combat Prayer.
- Soul Harvest deals magic damage and hence of not much use.
- Incapacitating Strike's stun is useless in PvE.
- Killer's Blade is the only useful ability in a Stamblade's kit.
- Lack of utility for groups - There is nothing in the Stamblades' kit that help the group. The debuffs are already covered by tanks.
- Not getting much use from passives :-
- Executioner - Killing an enemy with an Assassination ability restores 1428 Magicka over 6 seconds.
- Magicka Flood - Increases Max Magicka by 8% while a Siphoning ability is slotted.
- Soul Siphoner - Increases the effectiveness of your healing done by 3% for each Siphoning ability slotted.
- Transfer - Activating a Siphoning ability grants 2 additional Ultimate. This effect has a 4 second cooldown.
Lets breakdown the current advantages of other classes in PvE.
Magicka Nightblade - Great sustain and very high DPS. Heals allies with DPS. Extreme ultimate build up rates.
Stamina DK - Very high DPS due to availability of extremely powerful DoTs and good sustain. Great survivability.
Magicka Templar - High DPS, extreme survivability and great utility to groups with shards, repentance etc. Hands down the best healer.
Stamina Templar - High DPS, great survivabilty, good sustain and good utility to groups with repentance.
Magicka Sorcs - Very high but unstable DPS.
Magicka DK - High DPS, great survivability.
Stamina Nightblade - Strong initial burst but that's it.
Stamina Sorcerer - Good survivability depending on situations but that's it.
As you can see, there is hardly anything good going for Stamina Nightblades currently.
On the other hard, they are a burden to group as they need constant help for sustain as well as survival.
It is makes no sense for a class without any defense or survivability to be impaired in damage dealing capabilities as well.
The changes that is being made for Stamina Nightblades, is pigeon holing them in to PvP ganking and small group skirmish. That is the only thing Stamina Nightblades are good at and that is not very healthy either.
Umm, no stam blades are fine where they are.
1. The passive synergize well with any build.
2. StamDK should be worried about their DPS
3. Sustain aided by passives
4. Highest crit / crit modifier possible on this class
5. Versatile beyindustry belief...1 -
Bisenberger96✭✭✭I've seen a stamina sorc pull 50k on manti in vso and a stam nb pull 50k on zhajhassa in vmol. Magicka builds are what need to be looked at right now, they are being out dpsed by stamina builds as of DB.0
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f4naticb16_ESO✭✭✭So to be honest, nothing changed for our Stam Nightblades... it just got even more worse. @ZOS can you please explain what are your imaginations of Stamina Nightblades? My one and only Char is a Stamblade.. and I cannot compete in PvE anymore... Raids just dont need NBs anylonger... ("Play how you want" they said long time ago but this is even more worse the Nightblade class could be completely deleted out of the Game at that moment)"Night among strangers. Secrets in the dark. Nocturnal is here."
―Nocturnal0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can always bow/bow
http://imgur.com/a/a3Nehf4naticb16_ESO wrote: »So to be honest, nothing changed for our Stam Nightblades... it just got even more worse. @ZOS can you please explain what are your imaginations of Stamina Nightblades? My one and only Char is a Stamblade.. and I cannot compete in PvE anymore... Raids just dont need NBs anylonger... ("Play how you want" they said long time ago but this is even more worse the Nightblade class could be completely deleted out of the Game at that moment)
1 -
MrBrandon✭✭✭Stamblade is fine imo, but I wish rally could be used with duel wield or rework hidden blade to do something similar.0
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Give us Debilitate already. And an AoE DoT. plzkthx@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Without reading rest of the post. OP clearly hasn't played any other stamina classes. The only stamina that has sustain is stamsorc due to the most op class ability in the game. Templar need to kill to sustain, not going to do much in a boss without trash. Stamina as a whole can survive with a good player but has no utility and can never compare when magika gets free hp from shields while cleansing.
There is a reason why top guilds have posted that stamina is now dead in vet trials and that is all but enough to make the rest of the community think that we will be a liability and need to carried.
I know so many stamina that have just stopped playing after the recent nerfs because their dps has suffered noticeably. They have cancelled their subs in order to use that money to pay for Morrowind and reroll a new class because we all know it will be OP for at least 3 months after release.
Things that will bring prestige balance back to stamina:- Return vma dual wield back to it's former glory. Remove spell damage from it and allow aoe to be affected.
- Revert changes to trap.
- Move adrenaline rush from Red Guard to medium armor. Replace with carnage from Khajiit.
- Improve evil hunter to do 20% more damage to daedra and ww while slotted. Make camo hunter give major bezerk from stealth/sneak.
- Chance of concussion for mace, 33%. Chance of bleed 6/12% on sword/dagger. Each axe has 50% chance of bleed, 100% for dw/2h. Buff swords to give 5%1h/10%2h.
- Increase all single target physical/poison/disease skills by 10%.
- Give us group buffs or cleanse or something group that only stamina uses can constantly use.
Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
How do you go home every night and say, I did a great job at work today. You actually do your job properly.
Step 1: roll templar. Step 2: level up jabs. Step 3: slap on weapon damage build. Step 4: que for bg. Step 5: leap...jabsjabsjabsjabs0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bone Shield - Scale off stamina and have the synergy offer a nice damaging shield for Allies, similar in nature to Blade Cloak
Circle of Protection - AoE Stamina Cleanse/Heal
Trapping Webs - Single Target DoT with the final tick hitting for a decent bit. Synergy can be left unchanged.
Blade Cloak - Double the radius and up the damage or give it a change to proc bleed damage.
Silver Bolts - PLEASE RETURN THE KNOCKDOWN EFFECT
Power Extraction - Add Minor Mangle (10% decrease health debuff)
Debilitate - Stamina Disease DoTEdited by Silver_Strider on February 21, 2017 12:27AMArgonian forever1