@ ZOS, when will Magicka Sorcerers be untied from Destruction Staves?

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

You know, just a stray thought, why not let frags proc off itself? i think that would add a little versatility and dps to us mag-sorc's. This is only said, however, since ive seen no willingness from ZOS to lower the cast time, or give us a better spamable ability

Could be interesting but I doubt they'd do it. Can you imagine getting hit by two Crystal Fragments in roll in PvP. The tears would flow.

No, the best alternative is to give us a good enough spammable to replace Useless Exchange. It can't be that hard, they have enough particles in their library to recolor a nice looking one and use that for a sorcerer skill. The mechanics also seem pretty simple... It could be done even in this short amount of time... But like you I doubt it will happen...

I mean, I am chasing the devs and admins on the forum linking this thread to them in the hopes we will at least get an answer, but so far, not a pip...

while i think giving us a spammable dark magic dps ability would be awsome, i think it would cause more tears than my idea honestly, people will whine and moan about the sorc that heals itself on every hit.

Adding a spammable dps ability to bound armor morphs seems less controversial to me.

That, or, and this is just spitballing, change the execute in storm call to something with a high dps output.

Dont get me wrong, i agree with you on the dark exchange is mostly useless, but from where i am sitting i doubt it will get changed due to the aforementioned reasons

The numbers on the self heal from that spammable abilities can be managed though, Blood Magic it self only heals for 8% of your max health, that in case of magicka sorcerers is about 16k health, so about 1200 health per attack? That is not a huge heal, it is even less than they are giving sorcerers with Surge and it is not like we will be using the spammable ability every second as we have other skills to manage as well. Blockade or Unstable wall would still be part of our base build (though in a back bar) so would be liquid lightning.

I think the buffs to Aegis and Armaments should aim towards buffs and heals. Aegis is supposed to relate a shield which in turn relates to tanking. A good self healing that is instant would be great here. Meanwhile armaments could grant Stamina sorcerers one of the buffs they so desperately need like Minor Berserk or Minor Breach (Berserk would even be a temptation for magicka sorcerers).

it may not be a huge heal, on that ill agree, but if procing off a instant attack ability would make it a tad op, not to say we do not need it of course, but i can just hear the whining now. rather than getting the ability, then blood magic being nerfed down the line, id rather avoid that whole nightmare. We do need a instant spammable dps ability, but i dont think it should be in the dark magic tree, however much i would like it to be

They could insert a CD in Blood Magic, similar to what they have with Surge. It would be a huge change from what is now as we don't currently activate that many Dark Magic Abilities that do damage. It is mostly the random proc of Crystal Frags right now.

I just don't see the spammable fitting in the Summing Tree, besides, it would benefit of none of the passives and would make no sense for bound aegis to have such a damage element.

like i said, im not disagreeing with you, i just want to avoid any further nerfs down the line, and the fact i have to think that far ahead disgusts me, because i know what will happen.

lets explore alternatives, rather than fixating on just one skill though

lets look at storm calling, the entire skill line is down to a fraction of its usefullness, and been here for every nerf to it, so what say we buff it, or change things up since thats the only skill line getting attention nowadays, least from where im sitting

i know alot of people like the execute, problem is its only really useful if you can get a persons, or mobs, health down before hand, so lets mix that up, lets have one morph stay an execute, but change the other to a higher dps output, but no execute.

All of the sorcerer skills need some form of buff right now, im just spitballing possible changes aside from dark magic, which i have my worries on down the line

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Whatever utility Sorcerer had near launch has been nerfed, leaving us with only dps and niche builds.

if we have to be corralled into those roles, lets buff those roles, rather than nerf them

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

You know, just a stray thought, why not let frags proc off itself? i think that would add a little versatility and dps to us mag-sorc's. This is only said, however, since ive seen no willingness from ZOS to lower the cast time, or give us a better spamable ability

Could be interesting but I doubt they'd do it. Can you imagine getting hit by two Crystal Fragments in roll in PvP. The tears would flow.

No, the best alternative is to give us a good enough spammable to replace Useless Exchange. It can't be that hard, they have enough particles in their library to recolor a nice looking one and use that for a sorcerer skill. The mechanics also seem pretty simple... It could be done even in this short amount of time... But like you I doubt it will happen...

I mean, I am chasing the devs and admins on the forum linking this thread to them in the hopes we will at least get an answer, but so far, not a pip...

while i think giving us a spammable dark magic dps ability would be awsome, i think it would cause more tears than my idea honestly, people will whine and moan about the sorc that heals itself on every hit.

Adding a spammable dps ability to bound armor morphs seems less controversial to me.

That, or, and this is just spitballing, change the execute in storm call to something with a high dps output.

Dont get me wrong, i agree with you on the dark exchange is mostly useless, but from where i am sitting i doubt it will get changed due to the aforementioned reasons

The numbers on the self heal from that spammable abilities can be managed though, Blood Magic it self only heals for 8% of your max health, that in case of magicka sorcerers is about 16k health, so about 1200 health per attack? That is not a huge heal, it is even less than they are giving sorcerers with Surge and it is not like we will be using the spammable ability every second as we have other skills to manage as well. Blockade or Unstable wall would still be part of our base build (though in a back bar) so would be liquid lightning.

I think the buffs to Aegis and Armaments should aim towards buffs and heals. Aegis is supposed to relate a shield which in turn relates to tanking. A good self healing that is instant would be great here. Meanwhile armaments could grant Stamina sorcerers one of the buffs they so desperately need like Minor Berserk or Minor Breach (Berserk would even be a temptation for magicka sorcerers).

it may not be a huge heal, on that ill agree, but if procing off a instant attack ability would make it a tad op, not to say we do not need it of course, but i can just hear the whining now. rather than getting the ability, then blood magic being nerfed down the line, id rather avoid that whole nightmare. We do need a instant spammable dps ability, but i dont think it should be in the dark magic tree, however much i would like it to be

They could insert a CD in Blood Magic, similar to what they have with Surge. It would be a huge change from what is now as we don't currently activate that many Dark Magic Abilities that do damage. It is mostly the random proc of Crystal Frags right now.

I just don't see the spammable fitting in the Summing Tree, besides, it would benefit of none of the passives and would make no sense for bound aegis to have such a damage element.

like i said, im not disagreeing with you, i just want to avoid any further nerfs down the line, and the fact i have to think that far ahead disgusts me, because i know what will happen.

lets explore alternatives, rather than fixating on just one skill though

lets look at storm calling, the entire skill line is down to a fraction of its usefullness, and been here for every nerf to it, so what say we buff it, or change things up since thats the only skill line getting attention nowadays, least from where im sitting

i know alot of people like the execute, problem is its only really useful if you can get a persons, or mobs, health down before hand, so lets mix that up, lets have one morph stay an execute, but change the other to a higher dps output, but no execute.

All of the sorcerer skills need some form of buff right now, im just spitballing possible changes aside from dark magic, which i have my worries on down the line

I am among the guys that like the execution. I think it could have better morphs, but I love the effect, I think it is too much of a traditional sorcerer ability not to have it. Sorry. XD

Reason why I think they are a little afraid to buff our execution is again the PvP issue, make it too powerful and it will heavily affect the burst combo used in PvP... It sucks, but I think that is where @Wrobel's thoughts go to when he is buffing or nerfing our damaging abilities.

I actually think this spammable ability would be great precisely because it can be buffed or nerfed as needed without affecting PvP too heavily and if it becomes too underpowered, there is always the alternative of Force Pulse. I think this ability would need a lot of small tweaks to be on the right spot and I am ready to face that... It can't really get worse from what we have right now >.>

Grao

Great, now I have a bug saying I haven't accepted or rejected an answer in this thread, but everyone of them has been rejected >.> If it gets closed because of this bug I will reopen the thread...

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

It can't really get worse from what we have right now >.>

i suppose that is something we can wholly agree upon, this is, frankly, the bottom of the barrel, so unless ZOS got some TNT on hand, it really cant get any wors

Mettaricana

They'll be Un tied the day zos starts buffing instead of nerfing

Grao

Mettaricana wrote: »

They'll be Un tied the day zos starts buffing instead of nerfing

Hey... They do buff classes... They buffed Stamina DKs didn't they? LOL

No, I think they will untie sorcerers from destruction staves the day a zenimax actually decides to stop ignoring this threat... I am absolutely sure @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom saw this thread as I replied every one of their posts today with a request to have one of them come and answer my question here. Still no response.

Coolio_Wolfus

Just to chip in...

You have to PvE to get to CP, most PvP is done with CP active.

So it appears that the testers are testing skills and skill changes with various CP active.
Meaning if dps burst is too high in PvP they nerf the skills not the CP buff, yet it is this CP buff making all the difference.

Took a DK template build up against a quest boss on PTS no cp set, and I just couldn't dent it with its adds, add CP into the mix and it was a pushover, same char different CP set.

This is why so many skills are op in PvP, yet a struggle in pre CP PvE.

Hope at least one person agrees with me on this.

Grao

Coolio_Wolfus wrote: »

Just to chip in...

You have to PvE to get to CP, most PvP is done with CP active.

So it appears that the testers are testing skills and skill changes with various CP active.
Meaning if dps burst is too high in PvP they nerf the skills not the CP buff, yet it is this CP buff making all the difference.

Took a DK template build up against a quest boss on PTS no cp set, and I just couldn't dent it with its adds, add CP into the mix and it was a pushover, same char different CP set.

This is why so many skills are op in PvP, yet a struggle in pre CP PvE.

Hope at least one person agrees with me on this.

well... CPs is how you level up your character now, so if you were fighting a quest boss that was scaled to cp160 or if you were using gear that was cp 160 without any cps equiped, yes, you'd have been screwed. Your gear wouldnt even work I believe.

Aliniel

Why do you start these threads? Have you learned nothing for the past 2 years? These kind of threads get ignored or even worse, read and given zero s**s about.

cschwingeb14_ESO

I've been playing a magicka sorc since beta, and a magicka sorc just cannot get away from destro staff. And that is maddening. NB, Templar and DK have a magicka melee option that the sorc just does not get.

I think that this is the biggest issue with sorcs not having a spamable attack. We need a magicka-melee spamable attack more that a ranged one. Because we can get a ranged magicka attack from destro, but a magicka-melee attack just does not exist on any weapon.

Grao

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

I've been playing a magicka sorc since beta, and a magicka sorc just cannot get away from destro staff. And that is maddening. NB, Templar and DK have a magicka melee option that the sorc just does not get.

I think that this is the biggest issue with sorcs not having a spamable attack. We need a magicka-melee spamable attack more that a ranged one. Because we can get a ranged magicka attack from destro, but a magicka-melee attack just does not exist on any weapon.

I agree, the suggestion I gave was to have a spammable with a ranged morph with extra magicka sustain and one morph melee with extra damage. I too wanted to play a melee magicka sorcerer.

Sweetpea704

Grao wrote: »

Dr_Talos wrote: »

Two words:
Crystal
Shard

Two words back to you: Cast time.

I use the dual wield passive to improve spell damage, add inner light to your bar, and then Boundless Storm, Structured Entropy, Crystal Shard (only if it procs) and then Mages Wrath. Don't use Crystal Shard until it procs at ALL for highest DPS. I literally do more spell damage and have higher crit chance carrying two swords than I do using a staff. THAT is messed up. Why isn't that passive on staves?

XaXa

Don't bite my head of here ... just spitballin / rambling

But what if zos changed dark exchange. it could be completley reworked to a buff that provided Major brutality or sorccery depending on the morph and minor force.

Then rework surge to be a "Sorc rapid strikes" that heals on crit. BOOM instant spammable Sorc class DPS with stam and magicka morphs. I dont want to just be a lightning templar. However with templars being light and sorcs having "dark magic" i think it could be a cool contrast. We could even get dark blades or something.

Idk. Like i said... just spitballing.

Makkir

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Magicka Sorcerers really need a ray of hope.

You're a glutton for disappointment aren't you? I'm kidding, it shouldn't be like that. But it sort of is (Wrobel).

You can get close enough damage with a maelstrom destro staff that you can with two swords, but dual wield gets the extra gear set piece bonus and the 5% passive.

All they need to do is revamp a few passives of ours, add a few percent spell damage to the useless ones and we're amazing again. Nightblades shouldn't be walking around with THAT much more spell power than a sorc, but they do regularly. Because they get better PASSIVES.

Again, the problem of heavily buffing our base stats such as Magicka and Spell Power is that it will affect Burst DPS in PvP, which ZoS won't do. They won't make sorcerer's burst in PvP better, they can't otherwise the tears will flood.

So we need a skill that does damage despite our lower spell power numbers XD

It should be balanced and set up so it creates a diversity of sorcs, and not just a meta sorc. Same goes for all classes. What I mean by that is that a sorc with high sustain should not be able to maintain high burst either. *** for tat. Each "build" will serve a purpose in Cyrodiil, and I think ZOS is TRYING to address that by shortening up the duration on shields so that you are either all out defensive or offensive, but not both. I'd like to see more situational sets personally, to encourage diversity. Something like this 5pc bonus "increase physicaly resistance by X amount, but suppresses damage shields by Y amount"

*** for Tat = balance


EDIT- So the word gets cencored. Let's try This for That = Balance