PvE Tanks: What are you theorycrafting for 2.4?

NBrookus

At this late date, it seems likely that the slew of tanking nerfs is likely to arrive in 2.4 in something like its current state.

Magicka DK tank here. Willing to switch back to stam, but I prefer magicka. I'm thinking of digging out the Footman and pairing it with heavy Willow's Path (reinforced/nirn), plus Engine Guardian or Lord Warden. 7/7 heavy. Then spec CP into regen and use drinks.

Alternately, Lord Warden + Armor Master medium (sturdy) + 3 piece Endurance + 2 piece Willpower, and spec CP into resistance. Use Probably have to run food with this setup and keep Razor Armor and Ingeous Shield up 100%

Unfortunately, with the exception of the Lord Warden damage shield, neither option provides much group utility. Black Rose looks promising, but it suffers from the same potential problem, and is locked behind an RNG grind to get decent PvE traits.

If you are a PvE tank and are still planning on tanking or considering it, what setups are you mentally tinkering with?

Teridaxus

Crafting everything in sturdy and bang my head against a wall.

Nebthet78

I will no longer be tanking, so won't be helping my guildies with trials or dailies.

I also unsubbed.

I won't be purchasing the DB DLC.

and since it is soon to be summer, I guess I will go outside and get some fresh air for a change. Might even lose some weight.

NBrookus

I am frustrated with the changes, too, and may not continue tanking at all. We've got several threads with complaints and feedback. But with this thread I hoped we could pool our ideas together to find some strategies for dealing with the nerfs.

Personofsecrets

A stam DPS build

code65536

I'll wait and see.

I'm hopeful that Wrobel remains true to his word and has no intentions of nerfing tanking, and that this most recent blow was unintended.

I haven't really given much thought to what I'll change if these changes stick, though, in part because that feels defeatist. I want to see things reverted and put back the way it should be, and I'll think about Plan B only if that that advocacy fails. Both of my tanks do have full DPS specs, so worst-case scenario, I'll just tank less often if it's no longer fun.

Ra'Shtar

A 300 dps per second tank build

Ra'Shtar

code65536 wrote: »

I'll wait and see.

I'm hopeful that Wrobel remains true to his word and has no intentions of nerfing tanking, and that this most recent blow was unintended.

I haven't really given much thought to what I'll change if these changes stick, though, in part because that feels defeatist. I want to see things reverted and put back the way it should be, and I'll think about Plan B only if that that advocacy fails. Both of my tanks do have full DPS specs, so worst-case scenario, I'll just tank less often if it's no longer fun.

My guess is that they will move Shield Expert to the green star and be done with.

dodgehopper_ESO

Personofsecrets wrote: »

A stam DPS build

I already made my move a patch or two ago. I think it was IC that set me away from Tanking, but I can't recollect.

lonewolf26

My night blade, probably going back to a pure DPS spec. This past release I've tanked sanctum, normal maw, Hel Ra, a few deathless VICP and WGT runs. With the siphon nerf resource issues were a huge problem but still workable in TG. I expect the recent nerf to completely break this build. I'm not confident he'll be able to maintain a build I won't have to dump thousands of guild into each time I want to swap roles. I anticipate it would cost me tens of thousands of gold to retune his armor sets to something workable with the updated traits. So why bother. My group can already nuke Vet CoA tankless. Next patch it'll be a facreoll. The only reason I see is for trials, but then why not sink gold into one of my lowbies that'll get max leveled with the VR removal.

My mothballed dk tank... I'm really hoping to revive him when he gets upgraded to max level. Now with the noninsightful changes to tanking, I'm unsure where to go but double down on the meta. As with the last handful of patches that broke something valuable to tanks there is the risk my build gets screwed again 3 months later when the devs reshuffle things. That's just the way it goes. The whiplash is real though. As an avid raider, my pockets aren't that deep since I can only sell a small fraction of what I pickup anymore. So I'll likely be farming up mats and praying for gold tempers to fall into my lap. Maybe by the time I scrounge up enough to outfit my new tank, I'll have dodged one meta-breaking release and be setup for the next. Or maybe I'll get tired of the grind and move on. Time will tell.

dodgehopper_ESO

lonewolf26 wrote: »

My night blade, probably going back to a pure DPS spec. This past release I've tanked sanctum, normal maw, Hel Ra, a few deathless VICP and WGT runs. With the siphon nerf resource issues were a huge problem but still workable in TG. I expect the recent nerf to completely break this build. I'm not confident he'll be able to maintain a build I won't have to dump thousands of guild into each time I want to swap roles. I anticipate it would cost me tens of thousands of gold to retune his armor sets to something workable with the updated traits. So why bother. My group can already nuke Vet CoA tankless. Next patch it'll be a facreoll. The only reason I see is for trials, but then why not sink gold into one of my lowbies that'll get max leveled with the VR removal.

My mothballed dk tank... I'm really hoping to revive him when he gets upgraded to max level. Now with the noninsightful changes to tanking, I'm unsure where to go but double down on the meta. As with the last handful of patches that broke something valuable to tanks there is the risk my build gets screwed again 3 months later when the devs reshuffle things. That's just the way it goes. The whiplash is real though. As an avid raider, my pockets aren't that deep since I can only sell a small fraction of what I pickup anymore. So I'll likely be farming up mats and praying for gold tempers to fall into my lap. Maybe by the time I scrounge up enough to outfit my new tank, I'll have dodged one meta-breaking release and be setup for the next. Or maybe I'll get tired of the grind and move on. Time will tell.

You describe quite well why I set down my shield. I'm pretty disgusted what they did to Reverberating Bash as well. People were complaining that they couldn't break out of the cc. Fine enough, so fix that. Don't ruin the cc. I have no idea why they turned this skill into a half-cocked dps skill. Its not worth it, but representative of the problem with Tanking as a whole.

Liofa

With CP changes we will be more tanky since we have more red points , no doubt . But the thing is , we don't need to be more tanky . Only thing that matters is stamina sustain . I can tank everything without taking shards and using dropped stamina potions . In the next patch , I still will be able to but it will be harder . My opinion is this , ZOS wants to make tanks more tanky but they are taking away our sustain which is much more important . Now I have to split my green points between block cost reduction and stamina / magicka cost reduction .

I will be reducing my resist values since I will make up the reduction in resist with CP but still there is no way to close the gap in sustain . It will work somehow but it will be harder , no doubt . These changes will hit low-CP and / or inexperienced tanks pretty hard .

I can explain the difference in sustain like this :

My character on live blocks for 479 stamina and has 100 points to Warlord and 67 points to Magician . ( 75 points into block cost )

Same character on pts blocks for 695 stamina and has 70 points to Warlord and 22 points to Magician . ( 75 points into block cost )

Did I get tankier ? Absolutely .
Did anyone wanted more tankiness ? Hell no . People tank vMoL with MA ( lol ) .
Did my sustain got worse ? Unfortunately . You can feel the difference very clearly in PTS .
Did someone asked for nerf to sustain ? HAHAHHA . No .

If anyone starts with Sturdy again , I don't even want to answer . Infused and Divines are irreplacable . Sturdy is not enough at all to cover the lost sustain .

Here is the summary of all these PvE tanking related threads in the forum . Good luck ZOS . I hope you do some good for us . Hint : Make things work differently in PvP and PvE zones . Because it seems like only PvP players like these changes . Let them have these as well and let us have our unnerfed stats . Solution is simple , only if you want to solve the problem .

redspecter23

I won't even bother with tanking anymore in dungeons/pledges as it's not necessary.

I never blocked much in nMoL so that's not really any different for farming runs.

Normal mode AA and HRC are non issues as there are no rewards.

Hard mode AA and HRC on leaderboard weeks are the only ones that matter and if I find any tanks willing to run those I'll probably grab hold and never let go.

Vet MoL and Vet Sanctum likely require some awesome tank skills but the raids are beyond most groups so I also consider them non issues.



So basically, 2 obsoleted trials will require tanks and even then only on the weeks that they are weeklies. Thanks ZoS for both killing people's desire to play tanks and also most reasons for actually wanting to tank. Well done /sarcasm.

Cuyler

Still interesting in tanking next patch? look here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/250009/kung-fu-bananas-hardcore-pve-raiding-guild-is-recruiting-all-factions-na-pc

Ajaxduo

for general PvE on PTS I'm running a stam sorc tank with a lot of success, 5 medium 2 heavy. Tava's favor, 3 endurance, 2 agility, 2 bloodspawn. I can run reinforced and nirnhoned on certain pieces of gear and with major ward/resolve up I have 29k spell and physical resistances...when bloodspawn procs I have 35k in both. Or I can run all infused & divines with a minimal loss. I also have 2.4k stam regen so I can keep bone shield up so I rarely have to block and when I do I have shield play enchants of my jewelry so it only costs 900 ish per block. No points in the block cost reduction CP passive. I've been solo tanking wrothgar and one of the hew's bane world bosses to test it out and it's very effective. Also dawnbreaker of smiting is great for tanks now!

Shadesofkin

Liofa wrote: »

If anyone starts with Sturdy again , I don't even want to answer . Infused and Divines are irreplacable . Sturdy is not enough at all to cover the lost sustain .

This above everything else.

As for my Theorycraft, I'm not quite there yet, but close. I haven't decided if I like Decisive or not over Defending yet.

Ajaxduo

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

If anyone starts with Sturdy again , I don't even want to answer . Infused and Divines are irreplacable . Sturdy is not enough at all to cover the lost sustain .

This above everything else.

As for my Theorycraft, I'm not quite there yet, but close. I haven't decided if I like Decisive or not over Defending yet.

Decisive in theory is great but it's too RNG dependent to pass up the mitigation stats tbh, it needs a small buff.

iam117

i think dps/tank hybrids will become a thing in trials, im pretty jazzed for trying it out with my stamplar tank with the patch.

Personofsecrets

code65536 wrote: »

I'll wait and see.

I'm hopeful that Wrobel remains true to his word and has no intentions of nerfing tanking, and that this most recent blow was unintended.

I haven't really given much thought to what I'll change if these changes stick, though, in part because that feels defeatist. I want to see things reverted and put back the way it should be, and I'll think about Plan B only if that that advocacy fails. Both of my tanks do have full DPS specs, so worst-case scenario, I'll just tank less often if it's no longer fun.

There is no way that @Wrobel could have expect to move block expertise without nerfing tanks.

Here is the math for you

Currently 167 CP can go into magic and stamina sustain and 100 CP can go into block cost reduction (more stamina sustain).

In the future, if a player wants block cost from block cost reduction cp (and they will due to the bracing nerf), then some CP go into non-block cost sustain and the other points go into block cost sustain. Overall there is 100 less points that can be used for sustain.

Big and clear nerf with easy math.

VaxtinTheWolf

I'll keep this one short. I dont have any DLC, I dont like asking other people to make my armor, and my interests are PvE, pledge things and in the process of learning a few vetern dungeons.

Argonian Nightblade Magicka Tank. Engine Guardian, Seducers, Footmans. 5 Reinforced heavy, 2 Sturdy light, Reinforced or Sturdy Shield, and Defending 1H weapon. I'll probably be setup like that come the Dark Brotherhood Base Patch. It's not too much difference compared to my current live setup, and I do relatively well for a learning tank.

I've already shared my small opinions here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2965886/#Comment_2965886
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2966125/#Comment_2966125

kojou

Not changing a thing on my tank. Tempering Alloy is too rare and expensive. I will re-enchant the rest of my jewelry with block cost reduction though...

I have mixed feeling towards all of the changes. I like the fact that they made Constitution useful, but I don't like that it feels like we are forced to replace bracing (2 skill points) with new armor (lots of mats and the loss of divines and infused). The change to move block cost to the shadow CP area wasn't necessary either, but I will survive.

Maybe they could make up for the shadow Block Cost "nerf" by allowing us to place 100 more green champion points?

I will continue to tank trials as much as my guilds will let me, but a tank isn't required for most 4 man content anyway.

TankHealz2015

Right now on PTS in Imperial City Sewers

5 HA Morihaus, 1 MA/1LA Engine Guardian (first time experimenting this EG monster set)

Orc, DK, bar1) S&B bar2) Bow
0 magika, 30 health, 40 in Stamina
Regen Drink
Ult = Dawn of Smiting / Werewolf

CP
RED= 10 spell resist (for the first bonus invigorating bash), reduce physical dmg/elemental dmg taken (even split on these)
GREEN= 46 reduce stam cost, 44 magika regen, 10 health regen
BLUE= 27 thaum DoT, 62 physical damge, 10 piercing

i don't know, but seems to be working in here solo.... feels quite tanky- but able to kill better than normal (on live)
start with green dragon blood to keep the stam regen up all the time then...

AoE Caltrops - AoE Bow endless hail - AoE Bow bombard (or vomit breath)
- swap -
invasion - flame lash - burning ember (heals)- rearming trap - swap again

Dawnbreaker (knock em all down) - roll through eaverybody (LOL)

so far is kinda fun ...


EDIT* I just noticed that using the regen drink instead of food is working way better for this build. My stam is actually going up quite fast during a fight...and my health barely moving.. crazy. I'm gonna try to put the Power Slam back onto my bar... see what happens.

NBrookus

Thanks for the responses.

My tank is build totally around regen on live. I'm not really a hybrid tank that swaps out to DPS as it is by changing armor, but I'm functional.

Looking at Wrobel's explanatory post, he seems to think every tank is built around block cost reduction. If I follow his scheme, it would be a 100% different build, and I suspect I would not even be semi-functional to DPS regular dungeons.

aidenmoore

I'm already replaying my Nightblade Healer again. I am done with tanking. It's not fun anymore managing resources for little rewards *sigh*

It's not like we need a tank anymore since they nerf vCoA, vWGT and vICP. 90% of the contents already doable without a tank.

Nebthet78

NBrookus wrote: »

Thanks for the responses.

My tank is build totally around regen on live. I'm not really a hybrid tank that swaps out to DPS as it is by changing armor, but I'm functional.

Looking at Wrobel's explanatory post, he seems to think every tank is built around block cost reduction. If I follow his scheme, it would be a 100% different build, and I suspect I would not even be semi-functional to DPS regular dungeons.

That's the same impression I have.. My build is also about resource management and not so much Block cost reduction. With the changes, my character is totally screwed over.

Wrobel only seems to be working within the definitiions of the min/maxers and block cost reduction and to hell with any one and everyone in between.

LorDrek

Histbark/willovs path, bloodspawn, sturdy/infused 5x heavy, 1la,1ma, willpower rings with reduce cost of block.

Silver_Strider

I was always looking for a viable excuse to quit tanking and ZOS just handed them to me in spades.

The thing about Tanking in this game is that you can't play this game as solely a tank. You have to have a DPS spec to get you thru the monotony of leveling, questing, etc. else it takes forever to complete content. Then there is content that is just outright impossible to complete as a tank (vMA). Most tanks just change gear and whatever else and go about the game like normal.

What this change does is remove that as an option without attaching a price tag to it. Resource Management is a HUGE part of DPSing. Tanks that also DPS are now being forced to make a choice between Tank or DPS unless they are willing to use 3k gold every time they change roles. The game doesn't support Tanks so the clear option is to just go DPS and stay DPS instead of using 3k every time you need to tank something cause, lets face it, you don't need a tank for 90% of the game except in Trials.

Speaking of Trial Tanking, there is always a boss in Trials that outright requires you to have block up for the majority of the time (Warrior in Hel Ra, Axes in AA, Mantikora in Sanctum). Maybe constitution will cover the cost of blocking but there are other roles a tank is asked to do. You have to dodge certain mechanics, you have to use your stamina/magic to heal and buff up, you need stamina/magic to taunt those bosses. Constitution alone will not cover all the cost of maintaining those buffs, dodge rolls etc. that are required of a tank because you simply don't have the resources to do so. Even on Live, trials can be an outright nightmare for some tanks to maintain their resources without the constant need for shards/potions whenever they're available (mainly non-DK tanks) because they just can't hold on to those resource to do so. Making it so that the reduction cost of blocking is in the Shadow will outright murder any tank that isn't a DK because they've just lost their 1 method to alleviate the high demand on their resources in order to become "more tanky" but in truth it doesn't make them more tanky because regardless of now much mitigation you stack, there is a threshold that is impossible to pass.

The PvP people may love it and good for them but for PvE this is just the final nail in the coffin for a lot of us that have put up with these BS changes that are tailor made just to affect PvP.

luxfreak

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Even on Live, trials can be an outright nightmare for some tanks to maintain their resources without the constant need for shards/potions whenever they're available (mainly non-DK tanks) because they just can't hold on to those resource to do so. Making it so that the reduction cost of blocking is in the Shadow will outright murder any tank that isn't a DK because they've just lost their 1 method to alleviate the high demand on their resources in order to become "more tanky" but in truth it doesn't make them more tanky because regardless of now much mitigation you stack, there is a threshold that is impossible to pass.

Well, someone there never played Nighblade Tank i guess.
If played right, The NB Tank has he highest Sustain of all tanking builds, while staying tanky with the shadow passiv and has self heal with funneel or the ego funnel.

phaneub17_ESO

Focusing on Hardy and Elemental Defender for more mitigation. Add more self-healing abilities to my bars to make up the difference for the loss of Blocking reduction. I am not giving up recovery and cost reduction in Thief CP, if all else fails the best thing about being a magicka tank is it's easy to convert into a healer and let some other fool tank it.

WillhelmBlack

Vampire Templar, 5 Cyrodiils Light, 5 Kagrenac, 2 Bloodspawn. 100% mitigation in Mist Form if all dots Purified, block and heal rest of time til I need to Mist again

Woeler

I'm mostly aiming for blocking and not dying. A challenge is ahead, whether I like it or not. Once live hits I'm going to see if the setup I run now still suits me, or if it still works. On the PTs it seems to work fine for the moment, but I don't think we've seen the final version of this all just yet.