So...Stamina DK vs. Stamina Sorcerer

OrphanHelgen

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to nwork for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

luxfreak

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to nwork for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Oh, you forget the broken ass damage they can pull out.
Silly you.

Brrrofski

Stam Dk will still be stronger.

Stam sorcs will be quite a bit better then before next patch though. They're still bottom of stam though.

Alcast

luxfreak wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Mricci1988 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

PVE Wise Stamina DK > Stam NB/Temp/Sorc. However, all classes are able to do great dps.

PvP wise both are really good next patch. The changes to stam sorc help A LOT in dark brotherhood.

omg....Alcast answered me....

Alcast you are my Stamina Hero #fanboygasm

Thanks for the input, i just watched your stamina DD DK video on DW Maelstrom / Mael Bow.

The build looked great but noticed you didnt use caltrops.

I was wondering how you feel about the changes to Stam Sorc are for 2.4.2? I mean i see some potential but from the DK Venomous Claw is > Rending Slashes but the amount of HP sustain we have from DW tree + Crit Surge we might be able to complete vMSA properly.

Perhaps echoing vigor > crit surge? not sure - what do you feel?

Or Stam DK just overall stronger with Vigor as our primary heal?

Hey

The Crit surge change is crazy. For example when I use Rapid strikes on an enemy in PvP it heals me for almost 5k. In PvE that would be almost a 10k heal every 2seconds.

And yap, energized is a 5% damage increase which is huge in my opinion. Plus we have Dawnbreaker which can be empowered with Maelstrom daggers, and it only costs 85 Ulti.

How can you say that Dawnbreaker will be empowered by MSA weapons? As far as i remember the MSA enchantment only works on single target DoTs. @Alcast
Still, the Danwbreaker should be aweasome as an Ult.

The initial hit is not empowered, but the DoT can be empowered by the Maelstrom daggers.

@Mricci1988 btw, on stam sorc in pvp i did not even feel the need to use vigor because crit surge is freaking OP.

Erock25

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to nwork for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Where is this -5% resource cost of abilities you claim sorc has? Also that stam regen comes at a high price considering we have to slot a daedric summoning ability to get it.

Mricci1988

Alcast wrote: »

luxfreak wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Mricci1988 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

PVE Wise Stamina DK > Stam NB/Temp/Sorc. However, all classes are able to do great dps.

PvP wise both are really good next patch. The changes to stam sorc help A LOT in dark brotherhood.

omg....Alcast answered me....

Alcast you are my Stamina Hero #fanboygasm

Thanks for the input, i just watched your stamina DD DK video on DW Maelstrom / Mael Bow.

The build looked great but noticed you didnt use caltrops.

I was wondering how you feel about the changes to Stam Sorc are for 2.4.2? I mean i see some potential but from the DK Venomous Claw is > Rending Slashes but the amount of HP sustain we have from DW tree + Crit Surge we might be able to complete vMSA properly.

Perhaps echoing vigor > crit surge? not sure - what do you feel?

Or Stam DK just overall stronger with Vigor as our primary heal?

Hey

The Crit surge change is crazy. For example when I use Rapid strikes on an enemy in PvP it heals me for almost 5k. In PvE that would be almost a 10k heal every 2seconds.

And yap, energized is a 5% damage increase which is huge in my opinion. Plus we have Dawnbreaker which can be empowered with Maelstrom daggers, and it only costs 85 Ulti.

How can you say that Dawnbreaker will be empowered by MSA weapons? As far as i remember the MSA enchantment only works on single target DoTs. @Alcast
Still, the Danwbreaker should be aweasome as an Ult.

The initial hit is not empowered, but the DoT can be empowered by the Maelstrom daggers.

@Mricci1988 btw, on stam sorc in pvp i did not even feel the need to use vigor because crit surge is freaking OP.

Hey @Alcast,

Thanks for the heads up on this - I just checked your youtube page and saw all stam classes so far cept Sorc so I am sure that is next. i will be checking every few hours as i really value your input on the design of a stam sorc.

I am glad that you noted on the crit surge change - i think people are commenting without actually trying.

Like it was mentioned before....1.6 crit suge was based on the crit VALUE OF THE CRIT DAMAGE.

So lets say for example....40% heal...based on a 100 damage DoT tick crit....okay thats 40hp...
vs. today - a 100 damage DoT tick crit is 3000 HP BASE before modified.

@Alcast really is able to see that here.

5% damage increase + 3% Rapid Strikes (assuming you do not need bloodthirster for sustain)...thats 8% damage increase overall on Rapid Strikes Spam...thats just stupidly insane.

I do feel we need a LITTLE more in terms of ultility (bound armaments cost magicka but summons a spectral blade(s) and cuts down enemy after enemy) omfg that would be insane and fit RIGHT into my theme of an anime samurai from bleach.

Either way - i feel that stam sorcs DPS might be lower a little...but overall even a DW PvPer can just time streak well to gap close.

Lets not look at guys that spend 8 hours a day grinding max stats....enjoy these buffs...@Wroble - i know you work hard and you need to make decisions.

That being said @Wroble I get you from my own work experience - it sucks. Keep trying down the path you are - forget the idiots that complain and trash talk you - you did the right thing by paying attention to us.

@Alcast - keep up the great video's man - they really help a noob like me.

If anyone wants to friend me:
@The_Songblade
Keldorn Trueflame (Stam Sorc)
Keldorn Silverblade (Stam DK)


Mricci

Ryuho

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to nwork for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Where is this -5% resource cost of abilities you claim sorc has? Also that stam regen comes at a high price considering we have to slot a daedric summoning ability to get it.

1st sorc passive in Dark Magic tree - Unholy knowledge, at rank II it reduces stamina and magicka costs for all skills by 5%.

Mricci1988

Ryuho wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to nwork for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Where is this -5% resource cost of abilities you claim sorc has? Also that stam regen comes at a high price considering we have to slot a daedric summoning ability to get it.

1st sorc passive in Dark Magic tree - Unholy knowledge, at rank II it reduces stamina and magicka costs for all skills by 5%.

confirmed and only need to level Dark Magic to level 18 for the 5% reduction.

It goes quite a long way....

OrphanHelgen

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to work for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Where is this -5% resource cost of abilities you claim sorc has? Also that stam regen comes at a high price considering we have to slot a daedric summoning ability to get it.

Passive: Unholy knowledge: Reduces Magicka and Stamina costs for all abilities by 5%.

Daedric protection: Increase your health and stamina recovery by 20% when a daedric summoning ability is slotted. Yes this is bound armaments and needs to be slotted on both bars, but I dont see much problems with that, it also gives you some armor and 8& more stamina stats. This is very good!

Power stone: Reduce the cost of ultimates by 15%: I rather want this then pressing a button every 6 seconds to get 3 ultimate or whatever it is, witch means I have to press it 10 times to get 30 ultimate over one minuite, witch is the ultimate cost difference between a fully cost meteor 200 ultimate compared to a sorc meteor 170 ultimate.

Erock25

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to work for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Where is this -5% resource cost of abilities you claim sorc has? Also that stam regen comes at a high price considering we have to slot a daedric summoning ability to get it.

Passive: Unholy knowledge: Reduces Magicka and Stamina costs for all abilities by 5%.

Daedric protection: Increase your health and stamina recovery by 20% when a daedric summoning ability is slotted. Yes this is bound armaments and needs to be slotted on both bars, but I dont see much problems with that, it also gives you some armor and 8& more stamina stats. This is very good!

Power stone: Reduce the cost of ultimates by 15%: I rather want this then pressing a button every 6 seconds to get 3 ultimate or whatever it is, witch means I have to press it 10 times to get 30 ultimate over one minuite, witch is the ultimate cost difference between a fully cost meteor 200 ultimate compared to a sorc meteor 170 ultimate.

Yeah I blanked on Unholy KNowledge there. I thought you were referencing the Storm Calling passive that got changed one or two patches ago.

Bound Armaments isn't good outside of PVE and therefore Daedric Protection is tough to take advantage of. Those two bar slots are just too important to give up for all but an extremely focused gank build. I personally slot Greater Atro on my utility bar to get it.

Power Stone is nice now that Dawnbreaker is further tuned for stamina classes.

Ahzek

luxfreak wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Mricci1988 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

PVE Wise Stamina DK > Stam NB/Temp/Sorc. However, all classes are able to do great dps.

PvP wise both are really good next patch. The changes to stam sorc help A LOT in dark brotherhood.

omg....Alcast answered me....

Alcast you are my Stamina Hero #fanboygasm

Thanks for the input, i just watched your stamina DD DK video on DW Maelstrom / Mael Bow.

The build looked great but noticed you didnt use caltrops.

I was wondering how you feel about the changes to Stam Sorc are for 2.4.2? I mean i see some potential but from the DK Venomous Claw is > Rending Slashes but the amount of HP sustain we have from DW tree + Crit Surge we might be able to complete vMSA properly.

Perhaps echoing vigor > crit surge? not sure - what do you feel?

Or Stam DK just overall stronger with Vigor as our primary heal?

Hey

The Crit surge change is crazy. For example when I use Rapid strikes on an enemy in PvP it heals me for almost 5k. In PvE that would be almost a 10k heal every 2seconds.

And yap, energized is a 5% damage increase which is huge in my opinion. Plus we have Dawnbreaker which can be empowered with Maelstrom daggers, and it only costs 85 Ulti.

How can you say that Dawnbreaker will be empowered by MSA weapons? As far as i remember the MSA enchantment only works on single target DoTs. @Alcast
Still, the Danwbreaker should be aweasome as an Ult.

As long as DB only hits one target it gets empowered by vMA daggers/axes.

Its the only spell that i know of acting like this, but its a very cool interaction.

Ahzek

luxfreak wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Mricci1988 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

PVE Wise Stamina DK > Stam NB/Temp/Sorc. However, all classes are able to do great dps.

PvP wise both are really good next patch. The changes to stam sorc help A LOT in dark brotherhood.

omg....Alcast answered me....

Alcast you are my Stamina Hero #fanboygasm

Thanks for the input, i just watched your stamina DD DK video on DW Maelstrom / Mael Bow.

The build looked great but noticed you didnt use caltrops.

I was wondering how you feel about the changes to Stam Sorc are for 2.4.2? I mean i see some potential but from the DK Venomous Claw is > Rending Slashes but the amount of HP sustain we have from DW tree + Crit Surge we might be able to complete vMSA properly.

Perhaps echoing vigor > crit surge? not sure - what do you feel?

Or Stam DK just overall stronger with Vigor as our primary heal?

Hey

The Crit surge change is crazy. For example when I use Rapid strikes on an enemy in PvP it heals me for almost 5k. In PvE that would be almost a 10k heal every 2seconds.

And yap, energized is a 5% damage increase which is huge in my opinion. Plus we have Dawnbreaker which can be empowered with Maelstrom daggers, and it only costs 85 Ulti.

How can you say that Dawnbreaker will be empowered by MSA weapons? As far as i remember the MSA enchantment only works on single target DoTs. @Alcast
Still, the Danwbreaker should be aweasome as an Ult.

As long as DB only hits one target it gets empowered by vMA daggers/axes.

Its the only spell that i know of acting like this, but its a very cool interaction.

Alcast

Ahzek wrote: »

luxfreak wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Mricci1988 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

PVE Wise Stamina DK > Stam NB/Temp/Sorc. However, all classes are able to do great dps.

PvP wise both are really good next patch. The changes to stam sorc help A LOT in dark brotherhood.

omg....Alcast answered me....

Alcast you are my Stamina Hero #fanboygasm

Thanks for the input, i just watched your stamina DD DK video on DW Maelstrom / Mael Bow.

The build looked great but noticed you didnt use caltrops.

I was wondering how you feel about the changes to Stam Sorc are for 2.4.2? I mean i see some potential but from the DK Venomous Claw is > Rending Slashes but the amount of HP sustain we have from DW tree + Crit Surge we might be able to complete vMSA properly.

Perhaps echoing vigor > crit surge? not sure - what do you feel?

Or Stam DK just overall stronger with Vigor as our primary heal?

Hey

The Crit surge change is crazy. For example when I use Rapid strikes on an enemy in PvP it heals me for almost 5k. In PvE that would be almost a 10k heal every 2seconds.

And yap, energized is a 5% damage increase which is huge in my opinion. Plus we have Dawnbreaker which can be empowered with Maelstrom daggers, and it only costs 85 Ulti.

How can you say that Dawnbreaker will be empowered by MSA weapons? As far as i remember the MSA enchantment only works on single target DoTs. @Alcast
Still, the Danwbreaker should be aweasome as an Ult.

As long as DB only hits one target it gets empowered by vMA daggers/axes.

Its the only spell that i know of acting like this, but its a very cool interaction.

it only empowers the one that you flurry the MOB with. Burning Breath also works like that. Cleave also works like that.

Septimus_Magna

@Mricci1988

Crit surge currently doesnt heal off crit DOTs, so its always the big crit hit that heals you.

Im curious how reliable crit surge healing will be vs magicka builds with dmg shields. Overall its a pretty good buff for stam sorcs because Impen is taken out of the equation and healing is probably more consistant (even though the max heals will be lower).

OrphanHelgen

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to work for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Where is this -5% resource cost of abilities you claim sorc has? Also that stam regen comes at a high price considering we have to slot a daedric summoning ability to get it.

Passive: Unholy knowledge: Reduces Magicka and Stamina costs for all abilities by 5%.

Daedric protection: Increase your health and stamina recovery by 20% when a daedric summoning ability is slotted. Yes this is bound armaments and needs to be slotted on both bars, but I dont see much problems with that, it also gives you some armor and 8& more stamina stats. This is very good!

Power stone: Reduce the cost of ultimates by 15%: I rather want this then pressing a button every 6 seconds to get 3 ultimate or whatever it is, witch means I have to press it 10 times to get 30 ultimate over one minuite, witch is the ultimate cost difference between a fully cost meteor 200 ultimate compared to a sorc meteor 170 ultimate.

Yeah I blanked on Unholy KNowledge there. I thought you were referencing the Storm Calling passive that got changed one or two patches ago.

Bound Armaments isn't good outside of PVE and therefore Daedric Protection is tough to take advantage of. Those two bar slots are just too important to give up for all but an extremely focused gank build. I personally slot Greater Atro on my utility bar to get it.

Power Stone is nice now that Dawnbreaker is further tuned for stamina classes.

I take away everything I said.
Tried my khajiit sorc in sanctum today and it was crap

Mricci1988

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to work for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Where is this -5% resource cost of abilities you claim sorc has? Also that stam regen comes at a high price considering we have to slot a daedric summoning ability to get it.

Passive: Unholy knowledge: Reduces Magicka and Stamina costs for all abilities by 5%.

Daedric protection: Increase your health and stamina recovery by 20% when a daedric summoning ability is slotted. Yes this is bound armaments and needs to be slotted on both bars, but I dont see much problems with that, it also gives you some armor and 8& more stamina stats. This is very good!

Power stone: Reduce the cost of ultimates by 15%: I rather want this then pressing a button every 6 seconds to get 3 ultimate or whatever it is, witch means I have to press it 10 times to get 30 ultimate over one minuite, witch is the ultimate cost difference between a fully cost meteor 200 ultimate compared to a sorc meteor 170 ultimate.

Yeah I blanked on Unholy KNowledge there. I thought you were referencing the Storm Calling passive that got changed one or two patches ago.

Bound Armaments isn't good outside of PVE and therefore Daedric Protection is tough to take advantage of. Those two bar slots are just too important to give up for all but an extremely focused gank build. I personally slot Greater Atro on my utility bar to get it.

Power Stone is nice now that Dawnbreaker is further tuned for stamina classes.

I take away everything I said.
Tried my khajiit sorc in sanctum today and it was crap

@OrphanHelgen Hey man - what do you mean your sorc was crap?

The DPS with Hurricane & the rest of the skills were that bad???

What made everything so bad? Just curious and thinking of going to Stamina DK at this time.

Tyrannitar

luxfreak wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to nwork for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Oh, you forget the broken ass damage they can pull out.
Silly you.

"broken ass damage they can pull out" ---- understatement of the year award goes toooooOooOoo


Srsly tho. OP: You're looking at this.

40k DPS with major mending and lots of resistances and survivability

vs

26k dps with nothing special with not as many resistances and a little more mobility &&& our survivability just got nerfed HARD because of crit surge.

Your call.

Tyrannitar

Mricci1988 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to work for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Where is this -5% resource cost of abilities you claim sorc has? Also that stam regen comes at a high price considering we have to slot a daedric summoning ability to get it.

Passive: Unholy knowledge: Reduces Magicka and Stamina costs for all abilities by 5%.

Daedric protection: Increase your health and stamina recovery by 20% when a daedric summoning ability is slotted. Yes this is bound armaments and needs to be slotted on both bars, but I dont see much problems with that, it also gives you some armor and 8& more stamina stats. This is very good!

Power stone: Reduce the cost of ultimates by 15%: I rather want this then pressing a button every 6 seconds to get 3 ultimate or whatever it is, witch means I have to press it 10 times to get 30 ultimate over one minuite, witch is the ultimate cost difference between a fully cost meteor 200 ultimate compared to a sorc meteor 170 ultimate.

Yeah I blanked on Unholy KNowledge there. I thought you were referencing the Storm Calling passive that got changed one or two patches ago.

Bound Armaments isn't good outside of PVE and therefore Daedric Protection is tough to take advantage of. Those two bar slots are just too important to give up for all but an extremely focused gank build. I personally slot Greater Atro on my utility bar to get it.

Power Stone is nice now that Dawnbreaker is further tuned for stamina classes.

I take away everything I said.
Tried my khajiit sorc in sanctum today and it was crap

@OrphanHelgen Hey man - what do you mean your sorc was crap?

The DPS with Hurricane & the rest of the skills were that bad???

What made everything so bad? Just curious and thinking of going to Stamina DK at this time.

In Live, we're already pulling last place in the DPS race for PVE

for PVP, we don't have a cc.

Stam DKS are pulling first place in DPS races, are getting stam morphs to their skills, not to mention the fact that they're damn near unkillable in Cyrodiil because of their inherent tankiness

Apherius

stam dk have a Ultimated who ignored 100% of armor of the enemy....

strikeback1247

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to nwork for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

That moment when stam dk's are pulling almost 40k dps on live and are getting a 20-25% dps increase next patch.

Dk_needs_a_buff

luxfreak wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think people say dk's are stronger then they really are.
I think reduce cost of ultimate are better then 2 ultimate every 6 seconds or whatever that earthen heart passive is.
I think 5% resuce cost of abilities and 20% stamina regen is better then 5% stamina back when activating earthen heart.

Dk have to nwork for their stats where other classes dont have do to anything.
Only thing that saves dk's now is the ultimates.

Oh, you forget the broken ass damage they can pull out.
Silly you.

Stam sorcs and stam dks use the same damage abilities

Flak

I've played both for a long time and decided to go with StamSorc because I liked it more and it fit my playstyle. Both are very strong, so you should play what you like more.