Should Dawnbreaker be stamina or magicka?

Bandit1215

In the DB patch, Dawnbreaker and it's morphs will do physical damage. This is an issue for mainly Magicka Sorcs and DK's, as they really have no instant DPS ultimate other than meteor which Is timed. Do you think it they should change Dawnbreaker so Smiting does magical damage, and Flawless does Physical?

ADarklore

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

Epona222

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

This ^

susmitds

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Not going to give up either morph of the only universal pure stamina ultimate, after ZoS took 3 years to give us one.

GreenSoup2HoT

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

It should be a stamina based skill since the skill line in general was stamina focused. However i would not mind if skill lines offered either a Magicka or Stamina morph for ultimate's. I would love to see Devouring Swarm become a stamina morph.

therrieur

Yes i think there should be an option

Who in their right mind takes smithing as a stam build anyway, give magicka based people that, otherwise it's going to be unused

dday3six

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

therrieur wrote: »

Who in their right mind takes smithing as a stam build anyway, give magicka based people that, otherwise it's going to be unused

In PVP the knockdown is more useful than 5% weapon damage.

GeorgeBlack

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Fighters Guild. Stamina.

magnusthorek

Yes i think there should be an option

This pool is a little biased...

IMHO, only really physical ultimates should be stamina based, even if I do play as stamina character too.

With Dawbreaker you call upon Meridia to do a massive purifying attack. That's magicka!

However you apply it with your sword (or axe, hammer, whatever...). That's stamina!

It's a vicious circle

UltimaJoe777

magnusthorek wrote: »

This pool is a little biased...

IMHO, only really physical ultimates should be stamina based, even if I do play as stamina character too.

With Dawbreaker you call upon Meridia to do a massive purifying attack. That's magicka!

However you apply it with your sword (or axe, hammer, whatever...). That's stamina!

It's a vicious circle

Biting Jabs is Stamina and is a Spear made entirely of light. Dawnbreaker has it much better logically speaking.

KingWhyteboi

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

fighters guild stamina simple imo

Vaoh

Both.

Dawnbreaker should be Stamina. Dawnbreaker of Smiting should be Magicka. Flawless Dawnbreaker should be Stamina.

It is a big change going from a key Magicka Ultimate to being completely erased from a Magicka character's arsenal. Now it is a key Stamina Ultimate.

I cannot predict how this'll affect things when Dark Brotherhood launches on console, but these are just my initial thoughs!

code65536

Yes i think there should be an option

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

I'm all for changing Ice Comet into Rocky Asteroid.

That said, I wish there was less of this "stamina-vs-magicka" mentality. I get the impression from a lot of posts on the forum that people who oppose a magicka Dawnbreaker are just doing it out of spite of the magicka builds. The goal is to have a balanced game. Not to have a tit-for-tat with different playstyles.

Dagoth_Rac

Neither. Ultimates should modify their damage type on the fly, based on your highest stat. They took important steps more than a year ago to make ultimates do base damage according to your higher stat, crit based on your higher stat, etc. Ultimates were supposed to be "ultimate" regardless of your build. With the changes to CP stars to more clearly focus on weapon/stamina stars (Mighty) and spell/magicka stars (Elemental Expert), they need to do same for damage type of ultimates. If you are a weapon/stamina build, ultimates should automatically flip to do physical, poison, or disease damage, just like they already automatically flip to use weapon crit. And if you are a spell/magicka build, ultimates should automatically flip to do elemental or magic damage, just like they already automatically flip to use spell crit.

Arguing over morphs and who has access to better ultimates is causing players to be mad at players, when we should all be mad at the devs! ;-)

timidobserver

Both. Flawless = physical. Smiting = magicka.

CyrusArya

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

A tragic loss for magicka templars and an irreplaceable loss for sorcs and dks. I have a creeping suspicion this change (along with the proxy change) were made at least in part to limit the burst potential of certain builds, and hint, its not magicka dks.

At any rate, let stamina builds have this one ultimate. Theres no reason magicka builds still cant use it even if it it does deal physical damage. Its just that both morphs are lucrative- no different from meteor where both have their own application and magicka builds have all the options. You can argue for a stamina meteor but mages guild passives don't benefit stam builds all that much now do they? The way it is right now, you got a PvP dawnbreaker for stam (smiting) and a PvE dawnbreaker (flawless) and both morphs passively and actively benefit stamina users. And thats fine by me, cus the only class that has a pure stam ulti is DK.

IcyDeadPeople

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

No, there is definitely a shortage of ultimates that use physical damage in this game.

Ra'Shtar

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

Well if we go down that route why don't you give me a magicka block, roll dodge and break free??

Epona222

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

I'm all for changing Ice Comet into Rocky Asteroid.

That said, I wish there was less of this "stamina-vs-magicka" mentality. I get the impression from a lot of posts on the forum that people who oppose a magicka Dawnbreaker are just doing it out of spite of the magicka builds. The goal is to have a balanced game. Not to have a *** for tat with different playstyles.

Not out of spite at all, just because stamina builds are not exactly flooded with choice when it comes to ultimates.

Strider_Roshin

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

therrieur wrote: »

Who in their right mind takes smithing as a stam build anyway, give magicka based people that, otherwise it's going to be unused

Come to Cyrodiil in a month, and I'll show you ;-)

GeorgeBlack

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

I agree with @Dagoth_Rac
That way people can't argue who has the better Morph.

Having said that I was say again
Stamina. 90% class skills are magika. This DLC improves stamina AGAINST magika. Deal with it.

Strider_Roshin

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

I'm all for changing Ice Comet into Rocky Asteroid.

That said, I wish there was less of this "stamina-vs-magicka" mentality. I get the impression from a lot of posts on the forum that people who oppose a magicka Dawnbreaker are just doing it out of spite of the magicka builds. The goal is to have a balanced game. Not to have a *** for tat with different playstyles.

So right now in live we have 14 Ultimates that scale with Elemental Expert, and 1 that scales with Mighty (I don't count werewolf since the heal scales off of max magicka and spell power). But now the ratio is 12.5 to 2.5 and you guys are whining? Give me a break. How about we make every ultimate scale off of mighty, and you can see what it's like to be a stamina user. Smiting is definitely the better of the two Ultimates, and all of my stamina characters are very excited to have it on their loadout.

lassitershawn

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

I'm all for changing Ice Comet into Rocky Asteroid.

That said, I wish there was less of this "stamina-vs-magicka" mentality. I get the impression from a lot of posts on the forum that people who oppose a magicka Dawnbreaker are just doing it out of spite of the magicka builds. The goal is to have a balanced game. Not to have a *** for tat with different playstyles.

So right now in live we have 14 Ultimates that scale with Elemental Expert, and 1 that scales with Mighty (I don't count werewolf since the heal scales off of max magicka and spell power). But now the ratio is 12.5 to 2.5 and you guys are whining? Give me a break. How about we make every ultimate scale off of mighty, and you can see what it's like to be a stamina user. Smiting is definitely the better of the two Ultimates, and all of my stamina characters are very excited to have it on their loadout.

I was initially strongly opposed to losing Dawnbreaker of Smiting to stamina, but you do have a good point.

Best solution in my opinion now is to make all ultimates do "ultimate damage" which would be included in both the mighty and elemental expert CP stars. This gives stamina builds a huge amount of ultimates that now scale off mighty, and gives magicka a few, including Dawnbreaker, which is very important to many magicka builds. Gives everyone more variety in builds, and I really don't think anyone can say that is a bad thing.

Eirikir

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Fighters Guild = Physical

Mages Guild = Magic

Its very easy, instead of trying to take a Stam skill, which we have few of mind you, why not ask for changes or new ideas in the Mages Guild?

Suru

Yes i think there should be an option

One should be physical, one should be magical to give players an option like they did Incap Strike and Soul Harvest.

code65536

Yes i think there should be an option

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

I'm all for changing Ice Comet into Rocky Asteroid.

That said, I wish there was less of this "stamina-vs-magicka" mentality. I get the impression from a lot of posts on the forum that people who oppose a magicka Dawnbreaker are just doing it out of spite of the magicka builds. The goal is to have a balanced game. Not to have a *** for tat with different playstyles.

So right now in live we have 14 Ultimates that scale with Elemental Expert, and 1 that scales with Mighty (I don't count werewolf since the heal scales off of max magicka and spell power). But now the ratio is 12.5 to 2.5 and you guys are whining? Give me a break. How about we make every ultimate scale off of mighty, and you can see what it's like to be a stamina user. Smiting is definitely the better of the two Ultimates, and all of my stamina characters are very excited to have it on their loadout.

There you go again with the "Boo hoo, we stamina users have been screwed for so long, and now suck it, magicka." It's a poor, childish argument that does not lead to balance--just your personal feeling of vindication.

If you want balance, push for other ultimates to have alternate morphs (as I said, I like the idea of Meteor having a Mighty morph). Instead of correcting the other wrongs in the game, you'd rather that the game create more wrongs in because "two wrongs make a right".

Morimizo

Yes i think there should be an option

Is it okay to hope that all ultimates would scale off your highest damage output?

No? Tough. Hoping anyway.

LiquidSchwartz

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Give me a stam overload and meteor

theher0not

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Almost all ults are magica without stam morphs. Stamina should at least get 1.

Elsterchen

I think this poll is vers biased, and i would have loved an "other" option.

IMHO I think this isn't a question of stam vs magica, or better said: it shuldn't boil down to this.

It took 1 year for Zeni to acknowledge there is a need to reconsider the abundance and strength for stamina based abilities. i am happy this topic is adressed and furthermore stays on the table as I feel we really have to talk about this some more.

I can symathize with everyone who feels the changes cut down on their possibilities, narrowing their "way to play". Really, i would not like that, but from my perspective (playing stambased characters only) this was the situation right from the start and lasted for 2 years now. So, please try to understand that some ppl are really really relieved and happy to see changes opting for more variability in our prefered playstyle.

One thing I am not so happy about is the way these changes are handled. I do not think it would be optimal to do one stam and one magica morph for every skill, especially if one morph merely reflects the base skill with different ressource cost, because not every skill is equally valuable for a ressource specialized play.

I rather like to take a more differentiated look at it: lets say we categorize skills... this may look like: high burst dmg single target/multiple target skills, defensive skills, ressource management skills and irritating skills:

high burst dmg skill:
No matter if its single or multiple target skills, everone needs these in PvE as well as PvP. They are our daily bread and butter and the number as well as the quality of these skills should be comparable when looking at magica and stamina users. Call me a radical, but i would prefer this kind of skills to depend on the highest ressouce of the player giving everyone the maximal available number of qualitatively similar skills.

defensive skills:
Everyone uses them, but their value is extremely dependend on individual playstyle and perception. Adding to this I believe that stamina and magica based builds show significant differences in their devence ... and therefore differ in their needs concerning devensive skills. IMHO, I liked to see a few more stam based devensive skills ... just to balance the current abundancy.

ressource management skills:
These are tricky, as they offer a very good opportunity to make unique ressouce based skills. Actually I would love to se more specialized and maybe class-resticted skills here. adding to it these skills are perfect for only-stam or only-magica morphs ... given the abundancy and quality is in its sum comparable. (i.e. evenso, not every class may have acess to the "best" ressouce management skills, the "best" stam-managing and the "best" magica managing skill are "on par" when looking at the mechanic of the skill) .

irritaing skills:
Skills that buff the caster or the casters group (other then ressources) or applies negative effects (other then dmg) to the target/targets are irritating ... not deadly but certainly not what one is always aware of. These skills are "good to have" and may have the status of "absolutely necessary" for certain builds/playstyles. here is an opportunity to forget about quality and offer a wide range of skills. Wether morphs are based on only one or both ressources should be determined for each of this skills individually. They are the cherry on top of a build (-cake) and i feel they need to be special.

Well, thats what I think about this.

GeorgeBlack

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

@Elsterchen

Since gamers over the past few years started demanding that we should be able to create a char from any race, with any class, using any weapon/armor, and ZOS took the extra step to erase any difference between a FIGHTER and a MAGE, instead of providing an array of classes including pure tanks, pure warriors, pure assassins, pure mages, pure archers, pure magic user fighters, that would satisfy all while maintaining a sense of balance. there will always be the conflict of Magika vs Stamina.

Fighters guild-> Stamina
Mages guild-> Magika
Fair. 90% Class skills using magika vs 10% stamina? Not fair.
immature behaviour towards Magika users and what not? I didn't see you magika users adopting a heroic behaviour and saying " Hey ZOS, our Stamina friends need some improvements" all this time. Now deal with it.

Now let me jump onto something else.

DPS vs other roles.

Here's an internal dialogue when attempt to become competitive with CP gear and what not...

So I need to procted myself from WD, and I need to protect myself from SD, and I need to protect myself DOT, and I need to protect myself from Elemental, and now I will have to protect myself from Poison. Screw this! Ima go FULL DPS.
Armor weapons jewellery (that could easily work as a PHYSICAL DEFENCE FROM ARMOR, PHYSICAL MAGICAL ATTACK FROM WEAPONS, MAGIKAL DEFENCE FROM JEWELLERY system) ima use them all for DPS.