Should Dawnbreaker be stamina or magicka?

Elsterchen

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Elsterchen

Since gamers over the past few years started demanding that we should be able to create a char from any race, with any class, using any weapon/armor, and ZOS took the extra step to erase any difference between a FIGHTER and a MAGE, instead of providing an array of classes including pure tanks, pure warriors, pure assassins, pure mages, pure archers, pure magic user fighters, that would satisfy all while maintaining a sense of balance. there will always be the conflict of Magika vs Stamina.

Fighters guild-> Stamina
Mages guild-> Magika
Fair. 90% Class skills using magika vs 10% stamina? Not fair.
immature behaviour towards Magika users and what not? I didn't see you magika users adopting a heroic behaviour and saying " Hey ZOS, our Stamina friends need some improvements" all this time. Now deal with it.

Now let me jump onto something else.

DPS vs other roles.

Here's an internal dialogue when attempt to become competitive with CP gear and what not...

So I need to procted myself from WD, and I need to protect myself from SD, and I need to protect myself DOT, and I need to protect myself from Elemental, and now I will have to protect myself from Poison. Screw this! Ima go FULL DPS.
Armor weapons jewellery (that could easily work as a PHYSICAL DEFENCE FROM ARMOR, PHYSICAL MAGICAL ATTACK FROM WEAPONS, MAGIKAL DEFENCE FROM JEWELLERY system) ima use them all for DPS.

Please read my post again. Since BETA I play stamina based builds (only, i might add) ... I know the problems first hand.

Yet, I still believe its wrong to boil it all down to:

Fighters guild-> Stamina
Mages guild-> Magika
Fair. 90% Class skills using magika vs 10% stamina? Not fair.
immature behaviour towards Magika users and what not? I didn't see you magika users adopting a heroic behaviour and saying " Hey ZOS, our Stamina friends need some improvements" all this time. Now deal with it.

Fair not fair shouldn#t be discussed here, especially when we talk about one single skill! Broaden your perspective and take a look at my suggestions, please. Step out of the kindergarden mentality of "this used to be mine and now its gone" as well as the equally childish perception of "I wanted it and now i nagged long enough to finally get it... and NO i will not share, bc you didn't share as well"...

The day i realized that not my siblings are the mean ones for requesting something, but my parents that seemingly used our wishes to seperate and sometimes even play us ... that day doomed a sudden change of easy parenting.

now, lucky us... ZOS will most probably not read this, so lets leave child-play behind and think of ways to improve everyones experience instead of fighting against each other.

I shared my suggestions, please share your thought on them.

Asmael

It's all cute and stuff, but...

It's not by locking ultimates behind a damage type and linking it to a CP that increases certain types of damage that you promote diversity.

Now, you have basically no reason to pick something else than Dawnbreaker as a stam build, while you're pretty much forced to pick Meteor on magicka build in most cases.

Time to get rid of this crap "+% damage type" star so that everyone doesn't have to worry about this anymore.
-> No need to change stam DKs to poison DK
-> No need to change ultimates damage types
-> Can finally add a more interesting star than just "increase all mah damage"
-> Can finally mix damage types and not lock people out

I want my magicka builds to use Dawnbreaker for those short fights where I want an ulti to burn frequently (e.g cleaning IC trash packs).
I want my stamina builds to use Meteor when I got a big-ass boss and when a strong initial burst (e.g pretty much any static boss fight for all stam builds, except stam DKs, because, well, standard).

Nyx2

Yes i think there should be an option

The change is generally bad. The fighters guild skill line lost its purpose in killing the undead and that is something both magicka and stamina should be capable of. With all the vampires this game will soon be Bloodlines Online.

Dyride

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Funny how when people realize that DB of Smiting knocks down everyone they will realize it is still worth a slot even if they are losing a little damage.

I see plenty of stam builds using Meteor/Standard/Soul Tether/Bats/Atronach even though they are magic damage.

GeorgeBlack

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

@Elsterchen

what?

Arthg

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Elsterchen
So I need to procted myself from WD, and I need to protect myself from SD, and I need to protect myself DOT, and I need to protect myself from Elemental, and now I will have to protect myself from Poison. Screw this! Ima go FULL DPS.
Armor weapons jewellery (that could easily work as a PHYSICAL DEFENCE FROM ARMOR, PHYSICAL MAGICAL ATTACK FROM WEAPONS, MAGIKAL DEFENCE FROM JEWELLERY system) ima use them all for DPS.

That's (unfortunately in my view) quite spot-on.

On topic, I never quite understood why the FG's ultimate was magicka-based. It never made sense to me.

Elsterchen

@GeorgeBlack @arth-grogalith

"So I need to procted myself from WD, and I need to protect myself from SD, and I need to protect myself DOT, and I need to protect myself from Elemental, and now I will have to protect myself from Poison. Screw this! Ima go FULL DPS.
Armor weapons jewellery (that could easily work as a PHYSICAL DEFENCE FROM ARMOR, PHYSICAL MAGICAL ATTACK FROM WEAPONS, MAGIKAL DEFENCE FROM JEWELLERY system) ima use them all for DPS".

This is your playstyle: go full DPS.
Which is one way to play ESO.There are other views and likes.

btw... this wasn't the topic.

GeorgeBlack

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

broaden ur mind

Rune_Relic

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Fighters guild is a stamina tree.
If you dont like something in the magicka tree (mages guild) then talk to ZOS.
Magicka builds get no say over this tree.

RebornV3x

Yes i think there should be an option

There should be an option

susmitds

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Suru wrote: »

One should be physical, one should be magical to give players an option like they did Incap Strike and Soul Harvest.

LOL, why should Magicka builds always get to choose what they get, while the stamina toons have to pick up what they leave behind.
There are many stamina players who would have wanted Soul Harvest more.

RebornV3x wrote: »

There should be an option

And now Magicka players need more options. Would that leave stamina builds any option to choose which ultimate or even which morph they want to use? No, then they would be pigeon-holed to use Flawless Dawnbreaker, and may be a class based scaling ultimate they have. AND MAGICKA PLAYERS STILL NEED MORE OPTIONS.

Thybrinena

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

the whole stamina/magicka concept is a fundamental flaw in this game.

idk

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Absolulty not. Mage guild world is great for magika builds. Stam build need something and then are finally getting some love on the ultimate front.

NyPetiwowp

Let the flawless dawnbreaker be a stamina ability (Phisical dmg), because it gives the bonus weapon dmg as well so stam chars use it and let the Dawnbreaker of Smiting remain magicka (Magic dmg) so magicka chars still can have one more useful ultimate.

Autolycus

Poor survey. There should be an additional option to account for having a morph for each, which is the real way this should have been done. Flawless should be stam, Smiting should be magicka. The same goes for meteor: Ice Comet for Magicka, Shooting Star becomes a giant ball of poison.

darkstar2084

Yes i think there should be an option

Can't see anyone taking the other moprh if one increases weapon dmg like to see smiting remain, but it is not going to happen

AfkNinja

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Autolycus wrote: »

Poor survey. There should be an additional option to account for having a morph for each, which is the real way this should have been done. Flawless should be stam, Smiting should be magicka. The same goes for meteor: Ice Comet for Magicka, Shooting Star becomes a giant ball of poison.

Smiting is better for PVP which is why no stamina character is going to agree to changing it back. We need both morphs, one for PVP and one for PVE. Keep it this way or make all ultimate's scale off your highest stats/wep and spell dmg/ and wep and spell crit.

Stamina characters have needed an ultimate for a long time, it's not the end of the world here.

susmitds

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

NyPetiwowp wrote: »

Let the flawless dawnbreaker be a stamina ability (Phisical dmg), because it gives the bonus weapon dmg as well so stam chars use it and let the Dawnbreaker of Smiting remain magicka (Magic dmg) so magicka chars still can have one more useful ultimate.

One more useful ultimate. This.

This is exactly what the problem is with some magicka players.
They have a several times bigger arsenal and they still want for more to add to it.

All that, while stamina players have to be satisfied with the few choices they are given and deal with it.

Birdovic

Where is the "1 Stamina Morph and 1 Magicka Morph" Option?

cyclonus11

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

Endorse.

Balance > Logic.

Pirsius

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

I'm pretty sure all the magicka-builds will be perfectly alright if Dawnbreaker is stamina-based.

If stamina-based players have been able to find use in Meteor over the past 2 years, I am positive that magicka-based builds can find use in Dawnbreaker after the change.

Elhanan

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

Agreed, this has been too long been neglected.

ButtersEP

Yes i think there should be an option

Flawless should be Stam, Smiting should be magic imo

notimetocare

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

ButtersEP wrote: »

Flawless should be Stam, Smiting should be magic imo

Why should stam pvpers lose out on a good ult because magicka crybabies?

Strider_Roshin

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

lassitershawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

I'm all for changing Ice Comet into Rocky Asteroid.

That said, I wish there was less of this "stamina-vs-magicka" mentality. I get the impression from a lot of posts on the forum that people who oppose a magicka Dawnbreaker are just doing it out of spite of the magicka builds. The goal is to have a balanced game. Not to have a *** for tat with different playstyles.

So right now in live we have 14 Ultimates that scale with Elemental Expert, and 1 that scales with Mighty (I don't count werewolf since the heal scales off of max magicka and spell power). But now the ratio is 12.5 to 2.5 and you guys are whining? Give me a break. How about we make every ultimate scale off of mighty, and you can see what it's like to be a stamina user. Smiting is definitely the better of the two Ultimates, and all of my stamina characters are very excited to have it on their loadout.

I was initially strongly opposed to losing Dawnbreaker of Smiting to stamina, but you do have a good point.

Best solution in my opinion now is to make all ultimates do "ultimate damage" which would be included in both the mighty and elemental expert CP stars. This gives stamina builds a huge amount of ultimates that now scale off mighty, and gives magicka a few, including Dawnbreaker, which is very important to many magicka builds. Gives everyone more variety in builds, and I really don't think anyone can say that is a bad thing.

I would be on board with this change.

lassitershawn

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

I'm all for changing Ice Comet into Rocky Asteroid.

That said, I wish there was less of this "stamina-vs-magicka" mentality. I get the impression from a lot of posts on the forum that people who oppose a magicka Dawnbreaker are just doing it out of spite of the magicka builds. The goal is to have a balanced game. Not to have a *** for tat with different playstyles.

So right now in live we have 14 Ultimates that scale with Elemental Expert, and 1 that scales with Mighty (I don't count werewolf since the heal scales off of max magicka and spell power). But now the ratio is 12.5 to 2.5 and you guys are whining? Give me a break. How about we make every ultimate scale off of mighty, and you can see what it's like to be a stamina user. Smiting is definitely the better of the two Ultimates, and all of my stamina characters are very excited to have it on their loadout.

I was initially strongly opposed to losing Dawnbreaker of Smiting to stamina, but you do have a good point.

Best solution in my opinion now is to make all ultimates do "ultimate damage" which would be included in both the mighty and elemental expert CP stars. This gives stamina builds a huge amount of ultimates that now scale off mighty, and gives magicka a few, including Dawnbreaker, which is very important to many magicka builds. Gives everyone more variety in builds, and I really don't think anyone can say that is a bad thing.

I would be on board with this change.

I think I'm going to make a thread about it because I find it hard to believe anyone would be opposed to this. To make it even more interesting, the "ultimate damage" could double dip from the two CP stars, giving hybrids really powerful ultimates to make up for having lower stats/damage.

AtraisMachina

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

ADarklore wrote: »

I'd agree as soon as we get Stamina Meteor.

Yeap

Some_Guy

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Neither. Ultimates should modify their damage type on the fly, based on your highest stat. They took important steps more than a year ago to make ultimates do base damage according to your higher stat, crit based on your higher stat, etc. Ultimates were supposed to be "ultimate" regardless of your build. With the changes to CP stars to more clearly focus on weapon/stamina stars (Mighty) and spell/magicka stars (Elemental Expert), they need to do same for damage type of ultimates. If you are a weapon/stamina build, ultimates should automatically flip to do physical, poison, or disease damage, just like they already automatically flip to use weapon crit. And if you are a spell/magicka build, ultimates should automatically flip to do elemental or magic damage, just like they already automatically flip to use spell crit.

Arguing over morphs and who has access to better ultimates is causing players to be mad at players, when we should all be mad at the devs! ;-)

This. Yes. Just... yes.

Vangy

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

Another one of these threads..... god.....

My stam NB has been using soul tether and soul harvest for a year +.... Both magicka but still used on stam build....

My stam DK has been using standard and meteor for a year+ ... both magicka ults... He does have leap for PvP tho..

My stamTemp has been using dawnbreaker for a year+.... a magicka ult.....

I never once whined about having to use magicka based ults on a stam build..... Now they actually give all my stam toons an option to use a stamina based ult that scales with physical.... Yay! Now I can use flawless on my PvE specs and Smiting for PvP... Seriously the 5% weapon damage is nothing compared to the aoe knock down that smiting provides in PvP... If my toons can slot magicka based ults for a year + and still do well, mag toons can sure as hell slot stamina based ults and still do well....You can STILL slot dawnbreaker of smiting and it will STILL hit like a truck. If you are a vamp hunter and want the bonus damage as a magicka..... use inferno staff....

LorDrek

No, leave it be a stamina only ultimate

90% ultimates from magicka pool, stamina need more stamina based ultimates.