Stamina Sorcerer Feedback Thread: Patch 2.4.3 Update - Crit surge now affected by Battle Spirit

dsalter

my main issue as a stam sorc user (tho i admit i'm currently healer focused for cp gains in daily group finders) my main issue has been Surge healing not working on dots (bleeds, flurry, etc) , lack of lightning damage to proc disintegrate and a lack of defensive mechanic.
so my main ideas to put us back in the game are as followed.

Surge heals on Dots but only for 40% of the amount.

Add onto the disintegrate passive that all physical damage delt adds a small 200-400 shock damage (static damage) so that they can proc it, buff the weapon damage passive to 4%.

Give Bound armaments an activate that absorbs and reflects one spell back at the caster (basically return to sender but with a small bit of stam+magicka return). think a combination of harness magicka and DK wings but on a weaker level of both but combined.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Guys I think I figured it out!! No need to mess with crystal blast or mages fury or curse.

The key is Bound Armaments. Armaments means more than just armor, its weapons too. And it's already a stamina morph!

First step is to give Bound Armaments the Mage-light treatment as others have suggested. Have it grant minor resolve and 8% max stamina passively when slotted so it doesn't have to be double barred. Get rid of the animation and armor effect completely. People don't like it anyway as it covers up their gear.

When activated, Bound Armaments summons a Daedric Armament (i.e. sword, dagger etc) and does an attack. The attack costs stamina and does physical damage.

Benefits:

• This a very lore appropriate Sorcerer solution that fits within the nature of the class as well as the Daedric Summoning Skill line.
• This gives sorcs a direct damage stamina skill that ISNT a copy of any other skill.
• This would be very easy to implement for the development team.
• This would improve Bound Armaments so it only has to be slotted on one bar and also grants the Daedric Protection passive on your DPS bar for increased stamina regen.

If they implemented this plus brought the speed buff back for the full cast time of Hurricane, it would be an awesome start!


Oblivion Bound Sword

greylox

It could be problematic changing current skill morphs to stamina based as people could be using them. I know velocious curse is popular because of the 3 sec timer but as a pet sorc I use daedric prey. Same with the atronachs, I use greater which isn't used anywhere near as much but I'd be sad to loose it.

So if morphs are changed I think they should be affected by whatever pool is highest, not one or the other.

RoyJade

If they change atro, the greater atro morph should be the base morph and the aoe atro should be the magicka morph. Same for curse (even if I don't like this idea so much), if daedric prey become a stam morph the +55% damage should be given to the base morph or better : to the pets base effect.
You're right, stamsorc's change shouldn't destroy magsorc, making the same mistake is not a good idea (since most change who upgrading had a negative impact on stamsorc).

Birdovic

Nice thread, I didnt read trough all of it tho^^

So let me quote myself on an idea I mentioned

Let me share an Idea I mentioned long ago in the forum (cant find sorryy), concerning Bound Armaments.
Its based off of Grim Focus from the Nightblades Skilltree.

Bound Armaments:
"When activated, removes active snares and grants immunity for 2,5 seconds. While active (Lasts 20 seconds), you can hit with 4 light or heavy attacks to trigger Shockbolt(or Poison) which deals X Shock damage, scaling off Max Stamina and Weapon Damage"

It could either have melee range similar to a WB (maybe causing knockdown/off-balance, too?)
or it could have the standard Range of Ranged Attacks, which would make it useful for Bow Builds or something.

Requirement: Needs to receive the magelight treatment, so equipping is enough for the passives and manual activation helps in combat.

DDragon

In my opinion stamina-sorcs are at great disadvantage when it comes to single-target DPS (especially in PvE content).

As a stamina sork khajiit I tried to build several different builds and rotations, both increasing my critical rating or weapon power, or trying to find golden ration between the two. I even obtained maelstorm daggers hoping that this would it some way affect my dps (it did - but not i a good way). Nevertheless none of those combinations and builds allowed me to obtain greater dps than 23k on static bosses and around 15k dps on mobile bosses (such as the bosses 1. and 2. in veteran MoL). Given the fact, that there are some serious dps requirements to complete veteran MoL, I'm basically every time boosted through this trial, rather than be an active participant.
Furthermore, in my opinion, it is impossible to surpass more than 25k dps on single static target for stamina sorc no matter what race are you playing. The 25k dps is a glass roof for stam sorc dps, which is not a case in any other classes as far as I know. The most effective dps build for me ATM in case of single-target dps (on live) is WB spam + bow DOT, with thundering presence ability on and critical surge.
Compering to other players at same champion level and skill, I should easily obtain around 30-40k of dps on static target.

Several issues have been already posted with possible solutions. Those major issue are:
1) lack of direct damage stamina class ability, that would be affected in positive ways from class passives
2) lack of damage-over time class ability, that would possibly be also affected by maelstorm daggers enchant
3) lack of stamina/weapon-damage scaling of pets. Also probably changing not-healing twilight to be more PvP damage enchancer (minor berserker?)
4) Weakness of class passive that increase weapon damage comparing to fighter's guild passive
Several minor issues also have been posted through forum:
5) Overload poor scaling to weapon dmg
6) Uselessness of storm antronach ultimate on trials

Stamina version of thundering presence ATM in PVE content responds usually to 5-10%. The "enhancement" of this ability might or might not actually change the value. Why?
1) Lack of disintegrate proc. I never actually checked what is the percentage of this passive in my overall dps (and I think it's rather small), I think this is a nerf for many PvP players.
2) Speed enhance was usually helpful in case of mobile bosses to be able to still "stay" on him. Removing of this may result in spending more time on runing after boss rather than dps’ing him.
3) Furthermore speed removal is actually an enormous nerf when it comes to doing veteran Maelstorm as a stamina sorc. Honestly I have no idea now how to effectively do crystal phase on last boss.

I don't have time nor mood to find solutions to those problems, this is not my job. However it has been frequently said that DB DLC will address issues of stamina sorc. Revamping one skill in way that it is actually more of a nerf rather than enhance is by all mean NOT addressing issue of stamina sorc (unless the issue of stamina sorcs is that some of the players are still trying to play sorc on stamina).
I strongly encourage all ZOS team to read some great ideas of shrinking stam sorc community and make stamina sorcs equal to other stamina (and magica - because that was the aim of this DLC I hope) classes.

thejynxed

Some interesting ideas, but I'd like to know if any of you have actually gone onto the PTS and tested the new poisons (particularly the ravage & slow poisons) + heavy armor buffs with their Stam Sorcs in PvP and how that might affect the playability of this particular class build.

Edit: I am also curious if the change to make Dawnbreaker stamina-based would make it a suitable replacement for Overload (which is annoying and clunky).

CP5

thejynxed wrote: »

Some interesting ideas, but I'd like to know if any of you have actually gone onto the PTS and tested the new poisons (particularly the ravage & slow poisons) + heavy armor buffs with their Stam Sorcs in PvP and how that might affect the playability of this particular class build.

Edit: I am also curious if the change to make Dawnbreaker stamina-based would make it a suitable replacement for Overload (which is annoying and clunky).

Stamina sorcerer's shouldn't be dependent on Dawnbreaker, poisons and heavy armor. Any buffs to general pool items are good for all classes, this build type needs attention on its own.

I really am a fan of the wind magic ideas being tossed around, it could really make the class stand out more in general. Could even have a morph of bolt escape be changed to it, leaving behind small twisters to mess with your enemies. That concept opens a few interesting ideas for the class that could turn out well.

Attackopsn

@Wrobel Flurry should also proc crit surge, you made some really interesting changes to this ability but currently stamina sorcerers are unable to take advantage of this buff because it negates their only true advantage over other classes. Btw, you guys might want to avoid copy/pasting mechanics from other classes because the combat team has already said they avoid those solutions to prevent homogenization of class mechanics. The bound weapons idea does sound fantastic, you just may want to alter it a little bit so the process of proccing it isn't identical to merciless resolve.

Here's an example,

Bound Armaments: Summon Daedric Armaments, increasing your maximum stamina by 8%, whenever you critically hit, you have a 50% chance to change this ability into Daedric Strike summoning a Bound Sword to strike your opponent for x damage.

Discussion to whether or not this should have additional effects such as stuns, snares, minor debuffs would be interesting to debate also!

Dyride

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert I see Stam sorcs needing 2 things overall but am aware we need to work around the magicka Sorc community and the Devs perspective for implementing/balance.

1. PVE DPS (single target dps is poor).
2. PVP survivability (I'll save my input for later).

For PVE DPS:

I like the ideas for Crit Surge to have Lightning Damage on light/heavy attacks and changing Bound Armaments toggle to a while-slotted passive with an activated weapon summon a la Axes in Aetherian Archive.

I like these because they sound easy to implement without overly influencing PVP damage or changing another skill. You can literally take the art/animations from the AA axes or use the Morkuldin sword but make it blue.

Crit Surge giving lightning damage would make Disintegrate passive relevant for Stam sorcs who are using Hurricane.

SturgeHammer

My Stam Sorc wish list:

- Deadric Protection passive is active with any Sorc ability slotted, instead of just Deadric Summoning.


Not a very long wish list. I could throw out a lot more suggestions (and have done so over the last few days), but I don't think any of them could be implemented in time for Dark Brotherhood so I am keeping it simple.

Ajax_22

Dyride wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert I see Stam sorcs needing 2 things overall but am aware we need to work around the magicka Sorc community and the Devs perspective for implementing/balance.

1. PVE DPS (single target dps is poor).
2. PVP survivability (I'll save my input for later).

For PVE DPS:

I like the ideas for Crit Surge to have Lightning Damage on light/heavy attacks and changing Bound Armaments toggle to a while-slotted passive with an activated weapon summon a la Axes in Aetherian Archive.

I like these because they sound easy to implement without overly influencing PVP damage or changing another skill. You can literally take the art/animations from the AA axes or use the Morkuldin sword but make it blue.

Crit Surge giving lightning damage would make Disintegrate passive relevant for Stam sorcs who are using Hurricane.

Do not add any sort of lighting damage to Stam Sorcs. Just add a component to the passive that has a 6% chance to proc the same X damage as physical on physical attacks. Disintegrate isn't that impressive to begin with, and chaining it to magic damage for Stam Sorcs will not provide anything significant.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn I like the idea of making Bound Armaments a spamable DPS ability. It will have to be balanced very carefully since the ability gives some good passives already, but at this point I don't think anything ZOS can do to Stam Sorcs will make them overpowered.

Armann

My wishlist so far:

Bound Aegis

On activation, protect yourself with a suit of daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward. In addition you gain a damage shield equal to 10% of your health for 20 seconds that will refresh every 4 seconds.

While slotted you gain 8% Magicka.

Bound Armaments

On activation, protect yourself with a suit of daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve. In addition, summon 2 animated daedric weapons to attack your enemies within 8 meters of the caster for 20 seconds. The weapons basic attack deals xxxx Physical Damage.

While slotted you gain 8% Stamina and increases you damage with heavy attacks by 11%

Hurricane

Add Major Expedition for 5 seconds (when you cast and until it expands the first time)

Air Atronach (Charged Storm Atronach)

Summon an Air Atronach to attack nearby enemies. The atronach should be able to move slowly (somewhere between player walk and jogging speed). Attacks target with a physical attack and comes with an aura of high speed winds similar in effect to Hurricane.

EsoRecon

WOW @Yolokin_Swagonborn respect. nice post

Cathexis

I'm actually really pumped about the boneshield changes and buffs to heavy armor. The tank build I'm running could very likely work well. It's already running very well in pvp since I've switched to resto staff/sword board switch. But I still find that my pvp battles are capped out at 1v3. Depending on how good boneshield is at reflecting damage and absorbing prolonged burst, that might improve considerably. Certainly, for my tank build, the cost of casting bone shield needs to come down for it to be useful. A stam scaling shield is no good if it drains my whole resource pool just absorbing burst and then leaves me with nothing to work with.

That said, still no burst damage skill, poor resource regen skills and an excessive number of buffs required to constantly cycle through (9/12 skills on my skill bars are buffs) are still problems... and the massive poison changes for werewolfs, and to a lesser extent nerfs to wrecking blow are just going to put my builds right back to where they were before.

Cathexis

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Guys I think I figured it out!! No need to mess with crystal blast or mages fury or curse.

The key is Bound Armaments. Armaments means more than just armor, its weapons too. And it's already a stamina morph!

First step is to give Bound Armaments the Mage-light treatment as others have suggested. Have it grant minor resolve and 8% max stamina passively when slotted so it doesn't have to be double barred. Get rid of the animation and armor effect completely. People don't like it anyway as it covers up their gear.

When activated, Bound Armaments summons a Daedric Armament (i.e. sword, dagger etc) and does an attack. The attack costs stamina and does physical damage.

Benefits:

• This a very lore appropriate Sorcerer solution that fits within the nature of the class as well as the Daedric Summoning Skill line.
• This gives sorcs a direct damage stamina skill that ISNT a copy of any other skill.
• This would be very easy to implement for the development team.
• This would improve Bound Armaments so it only has to be slotted on one bar and also grants the Daedric Protection passive on your DPS bar for increased stamina regen.

If they implemented this plus brought the speed buff back for the full cast time of Hurricane, it would be an awesome start!


Oblivion Bound Sword

I think this is a pretty easy way to implement an attack and I think its only fair that BA gets an active component as well, just like every other summoning ability. I had actually thought about this a lot, and I was thinking you could take it one step further and make it a gap closer with no minimum range, so that you don't have to slot a gap closer ability and so that you could have a gap closer for non-gap closing weapons. It would create a lot more versatility to open up an extra skill slot and be able to gap close say for example on a dual wield or resto bar without having to weapon swap. That said, it would be useless if it had a minimum range, as the primary thing we need is a class spammable.


Also they have done away with the BA armor graphic, its now only a momentary animation.

Cathexis

SturgeHammer wrote: »

My Stam Sorc wish list:

- Deadric Protection passive is active with any Sorc ability slotted, instead of just Deadric Summoning.


Not a very long wish list. I could throw out a lot more suggestions (and have done so over the last few days), but I don't think any of them could be implemented in time for Dark Brotherhood so I am keeping it simple.

AGREE WITH THIS. SO MUCH. Again, it doesnt do much, just gives us more combo options, especially since most useful stam sorc abilities are NOT SUMMONING ABILITIES. A huge problem with stam sorcs I have found is being locked into needing too many buffs and not enough room for offensive abilities (or vice versa)

TBois

Yes thank you @Yolokin_Swagonborn for taking the time to put to paper what many of us are too tired to repeat. You are a gentleman and a scholar

The most troublesome changes for my Stam sorc is the increased cost of streak and that the change to thundering presence didn't increase the major expedition time. What Stam sorcs have that is unique from other classes is crit surge and mobility. Crit surge is on the right track with the recent changes ZOS has implemented but no where close to where it should be or used to be. As for mobility ZOS has nerfed it with every patch since they have said they are working on improving Stam sorc gameplay.

susmitds

Xael wrote: »

Solution

We need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)

Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
Chance to make ability instant cast.
Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

Also a redesign to the Exploitation (Dark Magic) passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39

Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50

Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.

*edit Before everyone rolls in crying "too op" it can still be dodged and most stam monkeys spam dodge roll and use Shuffle which happens to be OP as hell. Keeping it just like frags will allow us to mask it in a Crit Rush or Streak enabling us to set up a nice burst combo. With the changes to Wrecking Blow, Stam Sorcs are going to suck immensely at bursting.



I would not be opposed to having one the Mages Fury morphs scale with Stamina and Weapon Damage, they just need to make it as good as Executioner, otherwise there is no reason to use it. Would be cool to feel like a Sorcerer and hurl lightning around.

Since v2.1 Stamina Sorcs have only gotten worse. Mind you this is something I mained on for years in various incarnations.

Thundering Presence was a joke and the new one isn't any better.
Currently we are a class neutral weapon spec and I have no desire to continue playing this halfass pos.

Crystal Blast idea is good, but needs to be toned down a bit.
BUT I don't think minor savagery would ever appear in Sorcerer passives as it is a Nightblade passive proc.

CP5

An idea for Crystal Shard; add the blast aoe to crystal frag whenever you don't cast it from a proc so crystal blast becomes open for use. Make it so while its slotted the impact of stamina skills (not from dots or aoe's) has a chance to put shards on them for a few seconds. Hitting the skill causes all shards placed on enemies to detonate at once. Gives some stamina burst and aoe damage, as well as some use for blood magic's heal since you get more control when it fires. Just a thought.

luxfreak

I would like to see Stam Sorcs get some way of getting more stamina back. With my current Stam Sorc i have a hard time in MSA because i run oos to fast.
For that i would suggest actually change dark deal to an instant cast, while remain the same amount or even MORE stamina. Because atm that spell just sucks. I like the idea of dark deal, but its poorly implemented right now.

I would ask the Devs to read this Thread, because there are many intresting Ideas, which ofc cant all coexist,
but atleast all of them are intresting and worth to think about.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

luxfreak wrote: »

I would like to see Stam Sorcs get some way of getting more stamina back. With my current Stam Sorc i have a hard time in MSA because i run oos to fast.
For that i would suggest actually change dark deal to an instant cast, while remain the same amount or even MORE stamina. Because atm that spell just sucks. I like the idea of dark deal, but its poorly implemented right now.

I would ask the Devs to read this Thread, because there are many intresting Ideas, which ofc cant all coexist,
but atleast all of them are intresting and worth to think about.

I wouldn't mind the cast time as much if it was un-interruptable like wrecking blow. Granted you can still be stunned or CC'ed, which will stop your cast of wrecking blow, but if you have CC immunity, and you cast it, the skill will go off whether or not you are being bashed or hit with a skill (venom arrow, crushing shock) that has an interrupt.

This is a small change that would help a tankier sorc or a sorc that was really good at positioning get the skill off in PvP. However, at that point you run into the issue that the heal is very weak in PvP due to battle spirit.

PainfulFAFA

luxfreak wrote: »

I would like to see Stam Sorcs get some way of getting more stamina back. With my current Stam Sorc i have a hard time in MSA because i run oos to fast.
For that i would suggest actually change dark deal to an instant cast, while remain the same amount or even MORE stamina. Because atm that spell just sucks. I like the idea of dark deal, but its poorly implemented right now.

I would ask the Devs to read this Thread, because there are many intresting Ideas, which ofc cant all coexist,
but atleast all of them are intresting and worth to think about.

I think i read somewhere in the patch notes that heavy attack stamina returns would be getting fixed so thats a good way to get stam back. Thats how was able to do vMA with a 2h/bow.

Dark deal is not that reliable for pvp. Battle spirit is making this skill give weak heals even though the stam returns are nice. However, its the cast time on this ability that doesnt warrant a spot on my bar, not even on my overload bar.
It leaves me too exposed for rapid bursts, and anybody with a brain can interrupt it.
Yes , we can spam it when we have cc immunity but think about that for a sec.

The fact that i have cc immunity, means that im being targeted by the enemy whose waiting for the opportunity to burst me down when he ccs me. My reaction is not going to be to immediately spam Dark deal... But rather to take advantage of Unchained CP passive to shuffle/heal up to get out of snares/survive. Otherwise youre gonna get bursted down and an 1-2k heals isnt gonna help.

Dark deal is mostly a pve skill even though it still sucks for pve DPSing. It something i would use as a tank/sorc heals

Mojomonkeyman

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Guys I think I figured it out!! No need to mess with crystal blast or mages fury or curse.

The key is Bound Armaments. Armaments means more than just armor, its weapons too. And it's already a stamina morph!

First step is to give Bound Armaments the Mage-light treatment as others have suggested. Have it grant minor resolve and 8% max stamina passively when slotted so it doesn't have to be double barred. Get rid of the animation and armor effect completely. People don't like it anyway as it covers up their gear.

When activated, Bound Armaments summons a Daedric Armament (i.e. sword, dagger etc) and does an attack. The attack costs stamina and does physical damage.

Benefits:

• This a very lore appropriate Sorcerer solution that fits within the nature of the class as well as the Daedric Summoning Skill line.
• This gives sorcs a direct damage stamina skill that ISNT a copy of any other skill.
• This would be very easy to implement for the development team.
• This would improve Bound Armaments so it only has to be slotted on one bar and also grants the Daedric Protection passive on your DPS bar for increased stamina regen.

If they implemented this plus brought the speed buff back for the full cast time of Hurricane, it would be an awesome start!


Oblivion Bound Sword

That`s one of the best suggestions I`ve read so far. The gapcloser would be too much tho.

I would prefer combining the gapcloser with a redesigned "Hurricane" similar to "Deadly Cloak" (DW):

1. Activation: Major expedition 5 sec, minor berserk for 10-20 sec, remove the current dot damage
2. Activation: Hard hitting physical damage, short-medium range gapclose + 3-4 sec disorient (or 1-2 sec stun), ends all effects of first activation

Both activations would have to cost individually and be rather expensive. That would enhance Stamsorc burst options, enable new, unique combos but still involve decision making to get most out of it and not of any use when spammed.

That would be (depending on cost ratio) a very skillful ability to use, imo.

Cathexis

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Guys I think I figured it out!! No need to mess with crystal blast or mages fury or curse.

The key is Bound Armaments. Armaments means more than just armor, its weapons too. And it's already a stamina morph!

First step is to give Bound Armaments the Mage-light treatment as others have suggested. Have it grant minor resolve and 8% max stamina passively when slotted so it doesn't have to be double barred. Get rid of the animation and armor effect completely. People don't like it anyway as it covers up their gear.

When activated, Bound Armaments summons a Daedric Armament (i.e. sword, dagger etc) and does an attack. The attack costs stamina and does physical damage.

Benefits:

• This a very lore appropriate Sorcerer solution that fits within the nature of the class as well as the Daedric Summoning Skill line.
• This gives sorcs a direct damage stamina skill that ISNT a copy of any other skill.
• This would be very easy to implement for the development team.
• This would improve Bound Armaments so it only has to be slotted on one bar and also grants the Daedric Protection passive on your DPS bar for increased stamina regen.

If they implemented this plus brought the speed buff back for the full cast time of Hurricane, it would be an awesome start!


Oblivion Bound Sword

That`s one of the best suggestions I`ve read so far. The gapcloser would be too much tho.

I would prefer combining the gapcloser with a redesigned "Hurricane" similar to "Deadly Cloak" (DW):

1. Activation: Major expedition 5 sec, minor berserk for 10-20 sec, remove the current dot damage
2. Activation: Hard hitting physical damage, short-medium range gapclose + 3-4 sec disorient (or 1-2 sec stun), ends all effects of first activation

Both activations would have to cost individually and be rather expensive. That would enhance Stamsorc burst options, enable new, unique combos but still involve decision making to get most out of it and not of any use when spammed.

That would be (depending on cost ratio) a very skillful ability to use, imo.

It would be interesting to see a short range gap closer. I suggested that gap closer idea more because we need to see some buffs/abilities condensed so there is a bit more leeway in terms of the diversity of skills you can use without sacrificing clearly essential buffs and also not needing to cast 5-8 abilities before you can attack. There are plenty of ways that could be achieved.

acw37162

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

Solutions.
...

Stamina sorcs were very reliant on wrecking blow for the CC effect and the empower now we have to choose taking up two slots which is complicated because BA is a toggle. Need a stamina based class specific hard (4.5 sec CC) or a class specific skill that give minor berserk to make up empower or cc loss.

....

Those are the kind of inputs I was targeting my comment regarding WB at. Should be obvious since I didnt refer to you as OP exclusively.

Next.

So you have an opinion as do others.

I am not sure how I got dragged into your argument other then having an opinion you disagree with.

And just for giggles, being the minority of the minority doesn't make your opinion more or less right or better then anyone elses

PainfulFAFA

luxfreak wrote: »

I would like to see Stam Sorcs get some way of getting more stamina back. With my current Stam Sorc i have a hard time in MSA because i run oos to fast.
For that i would suggest actually change dark deal to an instant cast, while remain the same amount or even MORE stamina. Because atm that spell just sucks. I like the idea of dark deal, but its poorly implemented right now.

I would ask the Devs to read this Thread, because there are many intresting Ideas, which ofc cant all coexist,
but atleast all of them are intresting and worth to think about.

I think i read somewhere in the patch notes that heavy attack stamina returns would be fixed.
Dark deal stam returns is very good but the cast time just doesnt warrant this skill on my bar.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Guys I think I figured it out!! No need to mess with crystal blast or mages fury or curse.

The key is Bound Armaments. Armaments means more than just armor, its weapons too. And it's already a stamina morph!

First step is to give Bound Armaments the Mage-light treatment as others have suggested. Have it grant minor resolve and 8% max stamina passively when slotted so it doesn't have to be double barred. Get rid of the animation and armor effect completely. People don't like it anyway as it covers up their gear.

When activated, Bound Armaments summons a Daedric Armament (i.e. sword, dagger etc) and does an attack. The attack costs stamina and does physical damage.

Benefits:

• This a very lore appropriate Sorcerer solution that fits within the nature of the class as well as the Daedric Summoning Skill line.
• This gives sorcs a direct damage stamina skill that ISNT a copy of any other skill.
• This would be very easy to implement for the development team.
• This would improve Bound Armaments so it only has to be slotted on one bar and also grants the Daedric Protection passive on your DPS bar for increased stamina regen.

If they implemented this plus brought the speed buff back for the full cast time of Hurricane, it would be an awesome start!


Oblivion Bound Sword

YES YES YES
Something like that! A chance/proc to conjure a weapon(s). If it could so shock damage, even better!
Or maybe instead of a skill, they can tweak some of the ineffective passives like Rebate, Energized, Exploitation, Expert Summoner into something useful like procing a Conjure Weapon(s) that stack up to 3 times (3 weapons). Something like that more or less.

Mojomonkeyman

acw37162 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

Solutions.
...

Stamina sorcs were very reliant on wrecking blow for the CC effect and the empower now we have to choose taking up two slots which is complicated because BA is a toggle. Need a stamina based class specific hard (4.5 sec CC) or a class specific skill that give minor berserk to make up empower or cc loss.

....

Those are the kind of inputs I was targeting my comment regarding WB at. Should be obvious since I didnt refer to you as OP exclusively.

Next.

So you have an opinion as do others.

I am not sure how I got dragged into your argument other then having an opinion you disagree with.

And just for giggles, being the minority of the minority doesn't make your opinion more or less right or better then anyone elses

I think you should pay a look into the mirror, mate. Wasn`t you the one claiming to know what stamsorcs rely on in the first place?

Your self-proclaimed reliance on wb tells me that you lack either experience or competency, probably both. Each of those alone would disqualify for being heared in any balance related discussion.

Just another opinion, not better or worse than others.

RadioheadSh0t

The crystal blast morph should be switched to a stamina melee ability, like crystal fist or something, perhaps that adds an armor debuff, stun, or healing debuff.

No one uses that morph, it's one of the worst in the game, and adding a new stamina sorcerer ability would help balance it as a stamina option.

dodgehopper_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Looking at this list it is immediately clear which classes have the strongest stamina build and why. Now lets apply these four criteria to sorcerer:

Sorcerer (Current)
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: NOTHING except Hurricane, which is a huge Utility Loss (see below)
2. Stam Support Utility: Nothing that returns stamina. Bound Armaments (takes two slots for 8% max stamina and paltry armor), Dark Deal (very hard to use in combat), Boundless Storm (mobility utility), Critical Surge
3. Passives that support stamina: unholy knowledge (5% stam cost reduction), Expert Mage - Increase spell/weapon damage 2% per sorc ability (Now outshadowed by 3% fighters guild passive) Daedric Protection
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING

I'm not going to get into all the reasons where I think you're incomplete here, though I understand where your concerns lay.

1. You are correct about Hurricane, although lets be realistic that if they gave Sorcerer a stam spammable it would also feed into their passive that boosts weapon and spell damage. I think was their concern in balancing such a thing. I think the class has some fundamental issues that ought to be dealt with though above and beyond this, a reorganization if you will. Toggles should not be a thing. You should be able to have pets on the back bar only, and still have them functional. They should not last forever, sorry I think that's stupid and I always have. Make them instant cast and last for 30-60 seconds, whatever is appropriate. Bound Armor should be the same way. There are thematic reasons why I feel this way as well as gameplay reasons. If they changed this, along with removing the notion of a third overload bar (to make up for the fact now that you wouldn't need to run so many toggles) I think it'd be easier for them to balance in some kind of mage fury/crystal frag type stam spam skill. Just my thought on the balance here.
2. In terms of utility, Bound Armaments also gives you bonus heavy attack damage and the armor bonus. Dark deal could be better I agree. Boundless storm is good, don't discount it. Bolt escape/Streak is freaking awesome, I love this skill and you didn't even list it for support. Critical Surge is iconic, although I will say they need to give it love. Hardened Ward could be useful, potentially. I've made my comments on this in the past, don't feel like going into it right now, but it would need changing.
3. You missed the regeneration passives, which is just a mistake. Sorcerer regen passives are top shelf stuff. 10% Magicka, 20% health, 20% stamina. In addition to the lowest cost ultimates and highest magnitude in cost reductions of any class. (5/5/15%) Disintegrate is also really cool, which is actually an area where I feel stam sorcs get screwed in this update, since the stam morph does not proc a disintegrate. Pretty lame.
4. I was actually thinking about the armor debuff issue, and I'm thinking instead of daedric prey they should have made some kind of a rune for Stam Sorcs here. I'm just spitballing at this point on that topic.

All in all I think the class needs tweaks to make sense in the framework of the rest of the game. Toggles never make sense to me, and I actually love playing the Sorcerer class. In the early portion of the game it was my favorite PVE class, as I could tank, dps, and honestly heal all at the same time. I had some great laughs in dungeons where my team would die, and I'd finish off/take on a boss all by myself (while they were telling me I should just die so they could load in). Then I'd get the cheerful hurrah when I beat the boss. Toggles are just weird in a game where you have so few skills to use. If this were a different game with 15-30 skills to fire it'd be a different situation, but it isn't a different game.