BRACING?!

Zahcy

So in the current PTS (2.4.0) the heavy armour passive 'Bracing' has been removed.

Do factors such as sturdy (3% reduce block cost), constitution (1.1k-1.2 resources every 4 seconds) and the increase resources back from heavy attacks make up for this 'nerf'?

Or are the sacrifices made to re-gain lost stamina management to great?

You decide.

Mickey_Ox

I don't know, I'm need to see more to make a valid decision.

I'll wait to actually testing it before deciding if its good or bad.

susmitds

Remove bracing, I love this change!

The stamina gains from getting hit in PTS is huge and this also works when I am blocking. So essentially, every time I block a hit, I also get back almost that amount of stamina too. So indirectly, this is making blocking even cheaper.

Zahcy

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

susmitds wrote: »

The stamina gains from getting hit in PTS is huge and this also works when I am blocking. So essentially, every time I block a hit, I also get back almost that amount of stamina too. So indirectly, this is making blocking even cheaper.

There's a thread on the maths and overall you lose stamina if you're being hit atleast once every two seconds.

Dubhliam

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

susmitds wrote: »

The stamina gains from getting hit in PTS is huge and this also works when I am blocking. So essentially, every time I block a hit, I also get back almost that amount of stamina too. So indirectly, this is making blocking even cheaper.

Yeah, if you get hit once every 4 seconds.

Weesacs

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

susmitds wrote: »

The stamina gains from getting hit in PTS is huge and this also works when I am blocking. So essentially, every time I block a hit, I also get back almost that amount of stamina too. So indirectly, this is making blocking even cheaper.

So for PvP, I can keep all my impenetrable traits intact and just keep perma blocking without having to have any sturdy traits due to the HUGE stamina return? Excellent - thats awesome news!

Zahcy

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

Weesacs wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The stamina gains from getting hit in PTS is huge and this also works when I am blocking. So essentially, every time I block a hit, I also get back almost that amount of stamina too. So indirectly, this is making blocking even cheaper.

So for PvP, I can keep all my impenetrable traits intact and just keep perma blocking without having to have any sturdy traits due to the HUGE stamina return? Excellent - thats awesome news!

I wish, from what I've seen the stamina management is no where near as good as it was with bracing.

Armitas

Other.

It needs the damage and the blocking. Heavy armor makes you pretty stat poor, and you recoup that through triats which are now spent on blocking. I don't know why fixing heavy armor had to come with so much backfist.

code65536

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

susmitds wrote: »

The stamina gains from getting hit in PTS is huge and this also works when I am blocking. So essentially, every time I block a hit, I also get back almost that amount of stamina too. So indirectly, this is making blocking even cheaper.

Nonsense. I wish people would stop to trotting out this fallacy.

Constitution's return has a 4-second cooldown. Bracing cost reduction has no cooldown. Simply put, Bracing scales, Constitution does not. You don't get a cost-reduced block every 4 seconds--you get a cost-reduced block every time.

If you're tanking one enemy, then, yes, Constitution more than makes up for the difference. But if you have multiple enemies on you, or if you are hit by an enemy that does multiple attacks in quick succession (e.g., the Overfiend's Flurry is a quick succession of strikes that count as individual hits, draining stamina multiple times), then Constitution will not make up for the difference.

If they removed the cooldown on Constitution (and reduced the return accordingly, of course), then, yes, Constitution can be a suitable replacement for Bracing. But as it stands, it's suitable only in a narrow set of situations.

Asherons_Call

Arthg

I don't know, I'm need to see more to make a valid decision.

I was very excited about the changes. Informed people in these forums have almost managed to convince me that the loss of Bracing may outweigh the much needed buffs.
I need more time and tests to draw a conclusion.

Zahcy

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

code65536 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The stamina gains from getting hit in PTS is huge and this also works when I am blocking. So essentially, every time I block a hit, I also get back almost that amount of stamina too. So indirectly, this is making blocking even cheaper.

Nonsense. I wish people would stop to trotting out this fallacy.

Constitution's return has a 4-second cooldown. Bracing cost reduction has no cooldown. Simply put, Bracing scales, Constitution does not. You don't get a cost-reduced block every 4 seconds--you get a cost-reduced block every time.

If you're tanking one enemy, then, yes, Constitution more than makes up for the difference. But if you have multiple enemies on you, or if you are hit by an enemy that does multiple attacks in quick succession (e.g., the Overfiend's Flurry is a quick succession of strikes that count as individual hits, draining stamina multiple times), then Constitution will not make up for the difference.

If they removed the cooldown on Constitution (and reduced the return accordingly, of course), then, yes, Constitution can be a suitable replacement for Bracing. But as it stands, it's suitable only in a narrow set of situations.

Completely agree, the amount of people that believe the stamina management is better now is unbelievable. I feel as if it's becoming a common misconception.

Jade1986

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

Armitas wrote: »

It needs the damage and the blocking. Heavy armor makes you pretty stat poor, and you recoup that through triats which are now spent on blocking. I don't know why fixing heavy armor had to come with so much backfist.

Agreed. Wrobel needs to be slapped for this change. HA needed SWEEPING buffs, and did not need a SINGLE nerf. Why does MA get to keep their passive for rolling ALONG WITH getting a trait for armor to reduce the roll cost, and we dont get to keep our passive for blocking?! Beyond moronic.

Bofrari

laced wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

It needs the damage and the blocking. Heavy armor makes you pretty stat poor, and you recoup that through triats which are now spent on blocking. I don't know why fixing heavy armor had to come with so much backfist.

Agreed. Wrobel needs to be slapped for this change. HA needed SWEEPING buffs, and did not need a SINGLE nerf. Why does A get to keep their passive for rolling ALONG WITH getting a trait for armor to reduce the roll cost, and we dont get to keep our passive for blocking?! Beyond moronic.

I completely agree with you they should add this to the bracing passive not remove the best passive for tanking there is.

Jade1986

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

JDC1985 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

It needs the damage and the blocking. Heavy armor makes you pretty stat poor, and you recoup that through triats which are now spent on blocking. I don't know why fixing heavy armor had to come with so much backfist.

Agreed. Wrobel needs to be slapped for this change. HA needed SWEEPING buffs, and did not need a SINGLE nerf. Why does A get to keep their passive for rolling ALONG WITH getting a trait for armor to reduce the roll cost, and we dont get to keep our passive for blocking?! Beyond moronic.

I completely agree with you they should add this to the bracing passive not remove the best passive for tanking there is.

Yeah, tanks are going to hurt really bad from this, and HA dps as well. I play a heavy armor dps SnB stamknight, and the increased cost and loss of bracing is going to be HORRIBLE for all situations for me. I am going to pure absolute gank trash if I have to get rid of ALL my impen and replace it with sturdy. Right nw I can do nice damage and stay live a relatively long time with my impen traits, but after this update...pfft.

Zahcy

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

laced wrote: »

JDC1985 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

It needs the damage and the blocking. Heavy armor makes you pretty stat poor, and you recoup that through triats which are now spent on blocking. I don't know why fixing heavy armor had to come with so much backfist.

Agreed. Wrobel needs to be slapped for this change. HA needed SWEEPING buffs, and did not need a SINGLE nerf. Why does A get to keep their passive for rolling ALONG WITH getting a trait for armor to reduce the roll cost, and we dont get to keep our passive for blocking?! Beyond moronic.

I completely agree with you they should add this to the bracing passive not remove the best passive for tanking there is.

Yeah, tanks are going to hurt really bad from this, and HA dps as well. I play a heavy armor dps SnB stamknight, and the increased cost and loss of bracing is going to be HORRIBLE for all situations for me. I am going to pure absolute gank trash if I have to get rid of ALL my impen and replace it with sturdy. Right nw I can do nice damage and stay live a relatively long time with my impen traits, but after this update...pfft.

I play a heavy armour MAG DK for PvP, and I honestly feel as though to give up. This will ruin the MAG DK open world, as a tank for me, as if MAG DK wasn't bad enough as it was, they just had to go a make it work. This game is becoming a DPS race more and more every update, and unfortunately the MAG DK does not support that meta.

Drungly

Provide feedback on your experiences while testing upcoming content on PTS.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Xsorus

Remove bracing, I love this change!

People clearly haven't pvped on PTS with the new changes...So many people just have zero clue how it works...

Zahcy

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

Xsorus wrote: »

People clearly haven't pvped on PTS with the new changes...So many people just have zero clue how it works...

Please explain to me how it is not a massive nerf for open world, when against one person it hardly makes up for the stamina management let alone when I have twenty people hitting me.

Rylana

Zahcy wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

People clearly haven't pvped on PTS with the new changes...So many people just have zero clue how it works...

Please explain to me how it is not a massive nerf for open world, when against one person it hardly makes up for the stamina management let alone when I have twenty people hitting me.

Because if you have 20 people hitting you, you are going to die in less than 10 seconds no matter what buffs you have.

Hyperbole is hyperbole.

Zahcy

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

Rylana wrote: »

Zahcy wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

People clearly haven't pvped on PTS with the new changes...So many people just have zero clue how it works...

Please explain to me how it is not a massive nerf for open world, when against one person it hardly makes up for the stamina management let alone when I have twenty people hitting me.

Because if you have 20 people hitting you, you are going to die in less than 10 seconds no matter what buffs you have.

Hyperbole is hyperbole.

Not true at all, I have clips of me tanking 20+ people solo for 30 seconds +

phaneub17_ESO

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

Seeing as the cost for Blocking has gone up, I rather keep Bracing.

Zahcy

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Seeing as the cost for Blocking has gone up, I rather keep Bracing.

Don't know why they'd increase the cost of block, such an unnessecary change.

Silver_Strider

Other.

I'll adapt

idk

I don't know, I'm need to see more to make a valid decision.

Unless someone is testing on PTS, especially using sturdy on some small pieces, it's mere speculation.

I remember cries that the sky was falling when stam regen ended while blocking. Cannot recall last time I called out for a shard. We do well.

Dubhliam

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Unless someone is testing on PTS, especially using sturdy on some small pieces, it's mere speculation.

I remember cries that the sky was falling when stam regen ended while blocking. Cannot recall last time I called out for a shard. We do well.

All I keep hearing is: deal with it.

But if we put HA and MA passive bonuses side by side, I see no reason someone would even CONSIDER wearing HA.

Can anyone tell my why they would prefer HA over MA when DB hits live?

Personofsecrets

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

Keep up the voting folks

Rex-Umbra

I don't know, I'm need to see more to make a valid decision.

Need to test but i think the changes help balance HA.

Personofsecrets

Keep bracing, I hate this change!

No combat cloud on PTS makes testing difficult.

notimetocare

Remove bracing, I love this change!

Sturdy x7 for 21% block cost reduction...

Synozeer

notimetocare wrote: »

Sturdy x7 for 21% block cost reduction...

It's multiplicative, not additive like Bracing is, so you're only getting about 13% block cost reduction and not being able to use your armor traits for anything else.