After playing without champion system for just a little while...

olsborg

Im having more fun in pvp because:

1. Theres little to no lagg compared to other camps
2. Resources matter
3. Your build matters much more and how well you play it
4. With champion system pvp is too forgiving if you dont play well

Im having more fun in pve because:

1. Its much more challenging, quite simple

Should ZOS remove the current implementation of the champion system and insert something else?

Im fairly convinced the answer is YES.

oibam

not remove - but a big nerf would be very healthy for the game

Lysette

I am just curious if the no-CP campaigns make hybrid builds more viable as well?- Any experience with that?

Spearshard

I've always believed they should revert skills and costs back to pre cp and cap the CP bonus at 5%.

DRXHarbinger

What cp needs is a line to boost execution damage. Would make templar ganking much more fun. Toppling charge (when it works) vampires bane and then beeeeam gone.

Lysette

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What cp needs is a line to boost execution damage. Would make templar ganking much more fun. Toppling charge (when it works) vampires bane and then beeeeam gone.

that sounds like even more power creep to me - what the game needs is not more damage, but less.

Gidorick

I've been advocating a change in the CP concept for a while now. I had this idea of an active passive bar where you can choose a small number of CPs to be active in any consolation at any given point.

Not only would this make the way you build your character important, it would allow for players that have multiple builds to where you change your CP load out depending on what role you're going to fulfill.


Original link: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219662/cp-active-passive-bar-cp-burn-concept/p1

Gidorick wrote: »

One of the concerns with the Champion System is the eventual homogenization of players. As players apply more points, their skill-sets will begin to converge toward an eventual identical conclusion. Every player who reaches the 3600 CP cap will have the exact same CP benefits. This is a concern because it de-diversifies builds.

Active Passive Astrolabe
Along with whatever champion system cap and catch-up mechanic ZOS devises, I think it would be a good idea to have an Active Passive bar added to the Champion System with a total of nine slots.

This way, each constellation could be taken advantage of and no matter the veteran rank, diverse builds will remain possible. This would also help with the Champion System power creep concerns.

This bar would have one slot per Constellation in the Champion System.


Activating the star would be as simple as dragging and dropping the star into the astrolabe slot when viewing each constellation.


Only the CP skills that are slotted in the Astrolabe actively impacts player performance.

CP Burn Mechanic:
Another part of this concept is the consumption of CPs through use. When a star is placed in a slot it has the possibility of burning away. When a player enters combat their slotted stars burn. After a set number of time burning, the CPs within the stars are consumed. This would only happen while the player is in combat so players wouldn't consume their stars while crafting or gathering materials, or RPing. This would prevent players from feeling that need to always be on the grind.

The time left for each CP within a star could be tracked with a burn bar that is displayed in the above concept image. It's important to note that loosing CPs should NEVER make players loose access to stars they have already unlocked.

These two concepts will turn the champion system into a perpetual earning concept and prevent it from being a mechanic that has an end with the need for further maintenance. Players will be encouraged to try different stars and those who only use one set of stars will need to continually earn CPs to keep their stars fully charged.

So, what do you think? Beneficial? Unneeded? Another idea?

Oh, and if this sounds familiar, it's because this concept is highly influenced by an idea by @Rune_relic which can be found HERE.

Some thought one Active Passive slot per constellation was too few.... so I also suggested:

Gidorick wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to differing slot effectiveness @BuggeX. Nor would I be opposed to multiple slots. A total of 9 100% effective slots and 18 50% slots would be excellent.

It's the concept of limiting the effective stars that I'm advocating... not necessarily the exact number. I do think, however, that a 3 or 5 slot bar would be too few. At minimum, I think we would need one for each constellation.

I really like the idea of consuming CPs. I have another concept where you would concentrate prayers to the Gods with CPs.

Also like the idea of CP being used as a sort of currency. They could do something in game that helps players get those rare drops. Perhaps there could even be a way to convert Champion Points to Crowns. With the Champion Point catch up mechanic making CPs is pretty easy, I think a one-to-one conversion rate would be pretty good. Want to buy the new DLC with champion points? That'll be 3000 CP please.

Magdalina

Not sure what's worse for the game - presence of CP or absence of softcaps. I'd guess the latter but having both combined is definitely awful lol. At least they put a cap on CP, used to be worse.

Wollust

Lysette wrote: »

I am just curious if the no-CP campaigns make hybrid builds more viable as well?- Any experience with that?

Why should No CP make hybrids in any way viable? It's not because of the CP system that hybrid doesn't work. It's because softcaps are gone that maximazing one stat is just by far the best option. CPs could actually help making hybrids more viable in a distant future when the cap is set high enough. But even then maxing out one stat is most likely going to be superior.

But I agree with OP. The no CP campaign is so much more fun. Best thing is that people can't hatewhisper you saying you only win because of CP. Heh. The only thing I don't like is the fact that the bandaid fixes that were made for the powercreep of the CP system still apply to the no CP campaign.

I don't like the CP system in PvE because it's impossible to balance properly with further increase of the cap. We're going to get stronger and the content much easier - again. Kinda sucks for everyone who is at cap and above.

Bossdonut

I've said this already.

ALL campaigns should be 0 cp.

Wollust

Bossdonut wrote: »

I've said this already.

ALL campaigns should be 0 cp.

This wouldn't be a good approach. There is people who enjoy playing with the progression they've earned so far.
I wouldn't care even though I am capped for the next 2-3 years or so. But still. The CP system was introduced as progression system. It has its place in the game, including PvP. Like it or not.

binho

But if there's already a no CP campaigns, what's the problem this time?!
If the problem is that PVE is too easy then remove your CP and that's it! Problem solved!!!
People can use their CP or not!
I play a no CP campaign and I'm happy! It's my choice! Other players can make their choice too!
So if CP are optional then I honestly don't understand the problem here

SlayerTheDragon

With CP capped, almost all of the reasons above are irrelevant. A non-cp campaign would only work if CP was not capped. It serves no purpose now.

hrothbern

DonoVDV wrote: »

With CP capped, almost all of the reasons above are irrelevant. A non-cp campaign would only work if CP was not capped. It serves no purpose now.

Perhaps it is of no use to you...

so what.... you can make other choices....

It serves the players that want to PVP and have little CP's.

And THAT is a very good reason to have it for THEM !

ArchMikem

After many months of hard contemplation and flabbergastion, it is obvious that I have no idea how Champion Points make the game too easy for the lot of you. I've come to accept that I'm just not getting the way you guys build your characters cause even with 260 points my gameplay is still difficult and PvP is something I avoid entirely.

But here's a thought. If you want the game to be just a little harder for people like you, it'd be making it extremely more difficult for the likes of me.

Steel_Brightblade

Strange, so many agree that champion points are a bad thing and yet, on xbox one at least, the no cp azuras star campaign is empty.

EsoRecon

I think I'll try out the no cp campaign now...

Firerock2

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Strange, so many agree that champion points are a bad thing and yet, on xbox one at least, the no cp azuras star campaign is empty.

It's quite populated on PC NA.

Wollust

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Strange, so many agree that champion points are a bad thing and yet, on xbox one at least, the no cp azuras star campaign is empty.

It"s mostly locked during primetime on PC EU.

TequilaFire

Yep no CP campaign has less lag when it is your buff server. lol

rotaugen454

My son started playing again, and he doesn't have a VR character. He started a new character, and it was amazing how different it was for him compared to my lowbie with capped CP. He's enjoying the game and doesn't really care. My wife doesn't have CP either, but three of us can handle all the lowbie content as a group easily.

CasNation

PC NA Azura's Star is SUPER fun. Haven't had this much fun in PvP in a long time. Slightly lower pops, less zerging, and everyone is on an even playing field.

bowmanz607

I think just reintroduce caps.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Noooo, more damage, more of everything.
More is more, right? XD

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

olsborg wrote: »

Im having more fun in pvp because:

1. Theres little to no lagg compared to other camps
2. Resources matter
3. Your build matters much more and how well you play it
4. With champion system pvp is too forgiving if you dont play well

Im having more fun in pve because:

1. Its much more challenging, quite simple

Should ZOS remove the current implementation of the champion system and insert something else?

Im fairly convinced the answer is YES.

•Little lag cause no one is there.
•Resources matter now if you don't play a min max race with 10-12% more resources and recovery.
•Builds matter now run a super burst build with 2 Kena and burn your pools and have your damage buffs on cool down you die 100% of the time if the rolled or shielded your damage.
•Forgiving when everyone buffs damage by 20% cause anymore and to return is too small everyone has 60 points (17.5) resistance to magic and stamina.


I don't care if you find it harder to nerf yourself, I did not spend two years on this game to see no progress. I hit max level long ago their must be progress.

bowmanz607

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Im having more fun in pvp because:

1. Theres little to no lagg compared to other camps
2. Resources matter
3. Your build matters much more and how well you play it
4. With champion system pvp is too forgiving if you dont play well

Im having more fun in pve because:

1. Its much more challenging, quite simple

Should ZOS remove the current implementation of the champion system and insert something else?

Im fairly convinced the answer is YES.

•Little lag cause no one is there.
•Resources matter now if you don't play a min max race with 10-12% more resources and recovery.
•Builds matter now run a super burst build with 2 Kena and burn your pools and have your damage buffs on cool down you die 100% of the time if the rolled or shielded your damage.
•Forgiving when everyone buffs damage by 20% cause anymore and to return is too small everyone has 60 points (17.5) resistance to magic and stamina.


I don't care if you find it harder to nerf yourself, I did not spend two years on this game to see no progress. I hit max level long ago their must be progress.

-azuras has a good pop on the weekend
-sorry, but resources do not matter. When i run my magblade i do it with a bosmer. I have zero issues with resources b/c of champ tree. Resource management is a joke with cp.
-its not that builds dont matter now, its that builds are much more significant with no cp. You actually have weaknesses. You want resources, than you lose damage. You want damage, than you lose resources. You want mitigation well you will either lose resources or damage or both if you go full mitigation. even a kena proc is not bad with cp. no one is running around with it up 100% of the time. also, can you name a build today outside of kena proc that has issues with sustain?
-it is extremely forgiving b/c of the issues with resource managment (or lack there of i suppose) and reducing break free and dodgeroll etc. it is extremely forgiving these days.

ofcourse it is nice to have progression, but progression that gives everyone easy mode is just crazy. Went back to non-vet yesterday for first time since they removed cp and the figts required so much more strategy, timing, manuvering, and managment. it was great.

There is a reason this game is not considered to have competitive pvp. Everyone is on easy mode and two players who know what they ar doing will be in a never ending fight b/c of cp. heck, just dueled someone this weekend and after 13min of fighting we walked away. Where is the fun in that?

imo, progress can come in the form of getting more skillful at the game. there does not need to be a system in place just so yo can point to something and say "see i progressed and am better." Just getting better at the game is progress. This is what I miss about 1.5

Shadesofkin

I've got 10k gold on PC NA that says post Veteran Ranks the power creep will be lessened.

bowmanz607

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I've got 10k gold on PC NA that says post Veteran Ranks the power creep will be lessened.

perhaps, but what is the point of having the champ system if everytime people start earning more and more cp you have to nerf damage or healing or shields etc? that just gives the illusion of progression. IC comes to mind here.That just shows the inherent flaws in the system.

Dont get me wrong I thnk the concept is great, but limiting the stars to like 5% or providing some soft caps or something will go a long way to make the system better. imo, it shouldnt be scrapped but reworking the numbers would be nice.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Strange, so many agree that champion points are a bad thing and yet, on xbox one at least, the no cp azuras star campaign is empty.

Same for PC NA

bowmanz607

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Strange, so many agree that champion points are a bad thing and yet, on xbox one at least, the no cp azuras star campaign is empty.

Same for PC NA

keep in mind that many players dont want to spend money to regear for no cp. many builds rely on cp, so players dont either (1) want to take the time to do it (2) dont have the money to do it or both.

dsalter

cap CP at 10%. large portion of the problem lessens