Console End-of-Life Transfer Option

Eshelmen

Atleast let us transfer our characters to a different psn name. I can't stand my psn anymore. aha

Moonscythe

nine9six wrote: »

At least that's one less monkey people have to listen to while you spend 30 minutes at the Banker.

WTB - Pets: Don't Show - option

I would sooner listen to the monkey than the random howls of the canids or the other bizarre noises from the equally bizarre pets. I'm far more bothered by the large cats and flapping twilights in the confined spaces.

Divinius

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The OP isn't asking to buy/create a new account, they want to "copy" their current save file on the console side and have that exact data moved to PC. "Copy" or "transfer" whatever wording you apply, it's a copy because the OP specifically is not desiring to have their console save deleted.

Where exactly did the OP state that he wants to keep both? I didn't see it.

Everywhere he talks about it he specifically says "transfer" not "copy" ... and in this post:

tannercrook wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

The biggest issue with the transfer is someone could load up their current character with loans of Gold and Items, make the transfer, then pay back the people who loaned them the gold and items on the original account. There was some of this that happened during the PC to Console Transfer. With this in mind I think a transfer could be done under the following conditions:

1. As part of the Account Copy, your original characters are immediately deleted, or at least locked out then deleted once transfer was verified.
2. It can only happen once, no bouncing around platforms

I completely agree.

• I think that once per console lifetime is adequate. I understand it would be a lot of work on ZOS's part so transferring should be a serious decision.
• The old platform account should be made inactive to avoid cheating.

... he is specifically agreeing that the old account should be deleted.

In fact, let's ask just to make sure:

@tannercrook If the option was an actual "transfer", in that your console character would be removed, so you could ONLY play on PC, would that be acceptable?

tannercrook

@Divinius You are 100% correct. I do not want to keep the account on the PS4 and have stated this a few times in the thread.

Glad to see someone actually reads through the thread.

@NewBlacksmurf , @Divinius said it right. ZOS still has this on the table and I think it would be helpful to know because if they decide not to, I'll quite playing on PS4 today and redo everything on PC. Not to mention I think they would lose tons of business because a lot of players will chose to quite playing the game entirely if it means they can't play on the platform of their choosing after new hardware comes out.


Once an account moves platform I think it would be extremely unfair to have the option to copy back and forth and keep both.
(Unless they implemented a full sync of accounts across all platforms which I doubt ever happens.)


I just want an option to move to another platform when this generation of consoles get replaced.

Xjcon

So you went to console with heaps of gold and mats to profit and now you want to bring all that back....I know that's not your intent. If they start allowing transfers all Willie nillie it could effect the Economy of all platforms In a negative way. I'm so glad I didn't make the switch when it was available.

tannercrook

Enodoc wrote: »

Pulling out the terms of the PC to console copy doesn't help anyone. That was a one time offer, yes, and the offer was "pay less than the price of a new game to have your account copied to console".

That will never be offered again, but this thread is not about that. This thread is a request to offer a paid transfer service. That's transfer, not copy. Meaning that any existing data on the source server would be wiped, and any existing data on the destination server would also be wiped to make room.

And nearly all of those official ZOS responses say that while there are no plans for it currently, they know that it is a requested feature and will let us know if those plans change.

And regarding the new console generation, that's most likely irrelevant. They won't release a new version of ESO for Xbox 4-Two or PS5, just as there was never Morrowind on Xbox 360.

@Enodoc YES! Thank you! lol

However, this game is different than Morrowind. It's an MMO. Games like this are designed to last much longer. Look at WOW for example. This is simply one of the first one to be on a console. We aren't even close to having all of Tamriel and the consoles are already threatening new hardware.

Having watched the patch system for some time, I believe that they have built the game for the very purpose of easy portability. Even on the consoles.

Waffennacht

As for console death: with the advent of the emulator for xbox, we can guess that future consoles will either be backward compatible or develope an emulator for the new console.

Meaning, if they release a new console prior to the death of eso, then wouldn't it be highly likely that at some point the console would be fully capable of running eso. Making me believe all progress would not be lost.

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Do you have information that ZOS can transfer instead of copy

No, I don't, but we know they have the technology to copy and replace, as they did the copy before and do copy and replace from Live to PTS all the time. It's logical to assume that ZOS could delete any player's account if they so decided. So all they would need to do is copy the account information from the source, replace the account information at the destination, and then delete the original source.

You'll run into issues with duplicate character names and the like, but I'm sure that sort of thing can be addressed if a viable transfer system was something they wanted to do.

Eshelmen wrote: »

Atleast let us transfer our characters to a different psn name. I can't stand my psn anymore. aha

@Eshelmen You can do that already. All you need to do is unlink your current PSN from your ESO account and link up your new one. Your progress is tied to your ESO account rather than your PSN ID.

tannercrook

Waffennacht wrote: »

As for console death: with the advent of the emulator for xbox, we can guess that future consoles will either be backward compatible or develope an emulator for the new console.

Meaning, if they release a new console prior to the death of eso, then wouldn't it be highly likely that at some point the console would be fully capable of running eso. Making me believe all progress would not be lost.

If ESO dies when this gen of consoles get replaced, ESO would have had a shorter life than much worse MMOs. If ESO's lifespan is only going to be that long it would be laughable.

Waffennacht

tannercrook wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

As for console death: with the advent of the emulator for xbox, we can guess that future consoles will either be backward compatible or develope an emulator for the new console.

Meaning, if they release a new console prior to the death of eso, then wouldn't it be highly likely that at some point the console would be fully capable of running eso. Making me believe all progress would not be lost.

If ESO dies when this gen of consoles get replaced, ESO would have had a shorter life than much worse MMOs. If ESO's lifespan is only going to be that long it would be laughable.

Honestly Im more hesitant about a new console. I mean, how much time was between 360 and One? Im going to assume the time between One and whatever happens next will be greater than 360 and One.

As consoles become more like computers, I see less console releases and more console updates.

Just my hypothesis.

Eshelmen

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Do you have information that ZOS can transfer instead of copy

No, I don't, but we know they have the technology to copy and replace, as they did the copy before and do copy and replace from Live to PTS all the time. It's logical to assume that ZOS could delete any player's account if they so decided. So all they would need to do is copy the account information from the source, replace the account information at the destination, and then delete the original source.

You'll run into issues with duplicate character names and the like, but I'm sure that sort of thing can be addressed if a viable transfer system was something they wanted to do.

Eshelmen wrote: »

Atleast let us transfer our characters to a different psn name. I can't stand my psn anymore. aha

@Eshelmen You can do that already. All you need to do is unlink your current PSN from your ESO account and link up your new one. Your progress is tied to your ESO account rather than your PSN ID.

I've tried multiple times. I think the problem is that I bought a digital copy which is tied to my psn. It keeps giving me errors everytime I try to relink to my new psn.

NewBlacksmurf

tannercrook wrote: »

@Divinius You are 100% correct. I do not want to keep the account on the PS4 and have stated this a few times in the thread.

Glad to see someone actually reads through the thread.

@NewBlacksmurf , @Divinius said it right. ZOS still has this on the table and I think it would be helpful to know because if they decide not to, I'll quite playing on PS4 today and redo everything on PC. Not to mention I think they would lose tons of business because a lot of players will chose to quite playing the game entirely if it means they can't play on the platform of their choosing after new hardware comes out.


Once an account moves platform I think it would be extremely unfair to have the option to copy back and forth and keep both.
(Unless they implemented a full sync of accounts across all platforms which I doubt ever happens.)


I just want an option to move to another platform when this generation of consoles get replaced.

I'm reading your comments BUT in reading what you're asking and understanding how it works, no. What you want to happen and what you're asking for and how it would be done differ.


Let's go back....the reason I quoted the part about the console copy is because the very important thing is when your file was copied to console....the delete file was not and it was left on PC.

While ZOS manages the servers and the save files....your PS4 account belongs to Sony.
That save file, if ZOS agrees to allow you to "copy" the PS4 save and overwrite the PC save, there is a conflict because the process prior excludes the other file. The delete file.

The Sony account requires permission from Sony as specific to your desires, you're asking Sony to allow not you but allow ZOS to take a file and content purchased on Sony networks and move it to PC which is both a partner and a competitor.

The whole reason it was a big deal the first time is because Sony lost potential revenue as "we" we're being allowed to take a product purchased exclusively via ZOS and import that data onto the PSN network. Other than the $20 we paid for the game, Sony lost potential revenue.

Now you're asking both Sony and ZOS to strike a deal that would allow you to keep progress and take revenue split between Sony and ZOS which all along could have been 100% exclusive to ZOS.
From a business standpoint, there is a calculate loss and removes a potential to recoup.
Further, ZOS may not have rights to delete a PSN file and this may be solely up to Sony.

Your request while it's clear isn't the process which we do know as of today....would be a copy and not a transfer which may or may not require a new PC account.

IcyDeadPeople

During recent ESO Live, the developers commented on recent announcements from MS and Sony about cross platform servers.

There are a lot of hurdles (like how to handle duplicate character/guild names, etc), but I'm hoping at some point a merged server might enable playing with friends on other platforms or logging on with same account using different hardware platform. There would be no need to transfer or copy characters if we were already sharing the same server.

Lots of us playing on crappy PCs may decide to upgrade to console instead of new PC, and what seems particularly appealing is the much higher population on PS4 and Xbox. And as OP mentioned eventually current generation consoles are becoming outdated.

So, fingers crossed for some kind of merging of the platforms.

Enodoc

Eshelmen wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Atleast let us transfer our characters to a different psn name. I can't stand my psn anymore. aha

Eshelmen You can do that already. All you need to do is unlink your current PSN from your ESO account and link up your new one. Your progress is tied to your ESO account rather than your PSN ID.

I've tried multiple times. I think the problem is that I bought a digital copy which is tied to my psn. It keeps giving me errors everytime I try to relink to my new psn.

Ah yeah, if it was digital then I guess it is tied to it, and in that case you'd probably need to buy a new ESO as well. Is the error coming from PSN or ESO? You could always try asking Support if they have any suggestions.

Divinius

Honestly, with the number of people that I've seen that want to switch platforms, and would be willing to pay for it, ZOS is leaving money on the table by not offering a (limited) service for this.

When they start running out of other things to sell on the Crown store, perhaps they will work on something like this.

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

While ZOS manages the servers and the save files....your PS4 account belongs to Sony.
That save file, if ZOS agrees to allow you to "copy" the PS4 save and overwrite the PC save, there is a conflict because the process prior excludes the other file. The delete file.

The Sony account requires permission from Sony as specific to your desires, you're asking Sony to allow not you but allow ZOS to take a file and content purchased on Sony networks and move it to PC which is both a partner and a competitor.

I don't think that's relevant. All the game information is stored by ZOS; all Sony has is the PSN database of purchases of the game, none of the "save file" information. Sony don't lose anything if the save file was copied out, as it would be exactly the same as if someone just stopped playing.

NewBlacksmurf

Divinius wrote: »

Honestly, with the number of people that I've seen that want to switch platforms, and would be willing to pay for it, ZOS is leaving money on the table by not offering a (limited) service for this.

When they start running out of other things to sell on the Crown store, perhaps they will work on something like this.

Naaaah

-player 1:

This player started on PC and missed the transfer timeframe. Just wants to play on console...move, or copy....
Both ZOS potential is greater if they don't offer the copy or transfer cause if the player moves, now the player will buy the game and or crown, etc and DLC.

-player 2:

This player got the transfer and wants to go back. Nothing prevents the player from continuing on PC but it's likely that they will attempt to
Mimic progress so they will spend more rather than just a transfer cost

-player 3

Started on console and wants to go to PC now.
Similar to player 1 but revue relates to players 1 and 2

-player 4
Started on either or did/didn't get a PC to console copy but wants to go to another platform or they will quit.
Transfer isn't going to save this customer because some other circumstance drives the reasoning behind let me move or I quit. Any sudden change can cause this player to not buy or stop buying but a transfer cost over a 6-12 month period isn't worth the potential split or loss in revenue compared to other players.


The transfer is of no benefit financially to either and it also costs ZOS to do this cause the account would be "off" while being updated just like when they have a service issue. Understanding how interesting (negative experiences) the service is already, I doubt offering such a service would be a positive outcome because you have to also manage players leaving a sub on or crowns behind as they shouldn't transfer back n forth unlike the first offer that was a ZOS action due to many release delays.

Divinius

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm reading your comments BUT in reading what you're asking and understanding how it works, no. What you want to happen and what you're asking for and how it would be done differ.


Let's go back....the reason I quoted the part about the console copy is because the very important thing is when your file was copied to console....the delete file was not and it was left on PC.

While ZOS manages the servers and the save files....your PS4 account belongs to Sony.
That save file, if ZOS agrees to allow you to "copy" the PS4 save and overwrite the PC save, there is a conflict because the process prior excludes the other file. The delete file.

The Sony account requires permission from Sony as specific to your desires, you're asking Sony to allow not you but allow ZOS to take a file and content purchased on Sony networks and move it to PC which is both a partner and a competitor.

The whole reason it was a big deal the first time is because Sony lost potential revenue as "we" we're being allowed to take a product purchased exclusively via ZOS and import that data onto the PSN network. Other than the $20 we paid for the game, Sony lost potential revenue.

Now you're asking both Sony and ZOS to strike a deal that would allow you to keep progress and take revenue split between Sony and ZOS which all along could have been 100% exclusive to ZOS.
From a business standpoint, there is a calculate loss and removes a potential to recoup.
Further, ZOS may not have rights to delete a PSN file and this may be solely up to Sony.

Your request while it's clear isn't the process which we do know as of today....would be a copy and not a transfer which may or may not require a new PC account.

I'm sorry... What?

I'm not trying to sound rude or mean here, but I don't think you have any idea what you talking about.

All character data is owned entirely by ZOS, and resides on ZOS's servers, for all accounts on all platforms. ZOS would be free to do whatever they want with that data. It's not a "PS4 save file" at all. They didn't need to import or export anything to the PSN network, other than maybe the info that the account exists. They wouldn't have to do anything with Sony to transfer character data back.

Sony/Microsoft got their money when the player purchased the console version of the game. That's it. Sure, I'd imagine they get some kind of royalty from ZOS for using their network, and it's possible that they might even get a portion of crown store sales, but I don't even know about that. So they wouldn't really be losing anything.

TBONE_OG

tannercrook wrote: »

Topithus wrote: »

Sorry, dude. One time deal.

Now should ZoS allow transfers in the future... say when a new console (ie: Next Xbox) comes out and ESO is available on the platform?

Sure.

That's exactly what I have said. Look at the title of the thread! lol

What part of 'Console End-of-Life Transfer Option' was lost in that communication breakdown.

Well I read this...

"However, me and my friends are ready to go to PC. Not to mention as the gaming platform war rages, I don't know if I will even stay with the same console.

I feel like it would be smart to announce this as a feature because I am at a point where I will not buy another DLC or in-game item until I know that it can move to PC with me."

... And assumed you wanted to transfer now. Not later. You're just going to have to wait it out because if ZoS had plans (they wanted to announce) they would. So don't buy DLC, and don't play the game while you wait...

We don't know what the future will be like with transfers, but my guess would be upgrade (ie: Xbox 360 to Xbox One) transfers only. Like Diablo 3 did where you could import your save.

Acrolas

PC needs to build a wall to keep all these console refuges and illegals out.

NewBlacksmurf

Divinius wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm reading your comments BUT in reading what you're asking and understanding how it works, no. What you want to happen and what you're asking for and how it would be done differ.


Let's go back....the reason I quoted the part about the console copy is because the very important thing is when your file was copied to console....the delete file was not and it was left on PC.

While ZOS manages the servers and the save files....your PS4 account belongs to Sony.
That save file, if ZOS agrees to allow you to "copy" the PS4 save and overwrite the PC save, there is a conflict because the process prior excludes the other file. The delete file.

The Sony account requires permission from Sony as specific to your desires, you're asking Sony to allow not you but allow ZOS to take a file and content purchased on Sony networks and move it to PC which is both a partner and a competitor.

The whole reason it was a big deal the first time is because Sony lost potential revenue as "we" we're being allowed to take a product purchased exclusively via ZOS and import that data onto the PSN network. Other than the $20 we paid for the game, Sony lost potential revenue.

Now you're asking both Sony and ZOS to strike a deal that would allow you to keep progress and take revenue split between Sony and ZOS which all along could have been 100% exclusive to ZOS.
From a business standpoint, there is a calculate loss and removes a potential to recoup.
Further, ZOS may not have rights to delete a PSN file and this may be solely up to Sony.

Your request while it's clear isn't the process which we do know as of today....would be a copy and not a transfer which may or may not require a new PC account.

I'm sorry... What?

I'm not trying to sound rude or mean here, but I don't think you have any idea what you talking about.

All character data is owned entirely by ZOS, and resides on ZOS's servers, for all accounts on all platforms. ZOS would be free to do whatever they want with that data. It's not a "PS4 save file" at all. They didn't need to import or export anything to the PSN network, other than maybe the info that the account exists. They wouldn't have to do anything with Sony to transfer character data back.

Sony/Microsoft got their money when the player purchased the console version of the game. That's it. Sure, I'd imagine they get some kind of royalty from ZOS for using their network, and it's possible that they might even get a portion of crown store sales, but I don't even know about that. So they wouldn't really be losing anything.

There appears to be a few agreements that apply.

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/terms-of-use/

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https://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

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Im not gonna copy n paste it all but if I'm wrong point it out cause I have a different understand than your comment above. In short. The consoles are on their own networks exclusively. While ZOS may run the server the save files are also on the console network to some detail. I know this specifically applies to Xbox live and I'm assuming the same applies to psn.

Am I wrong?

Divinius

@NewBlacksmurf First, kudos to you for reading through all those legal documents. That's a lot of stuff to sift through.

But here's where I think your confusion might be:

From the PlayStation Terms of Use:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Welcome to the PlayStation® family of web sites (“Sites” or “our Sites”). These Terms of Service apply to us.playstation.com, all official game sites for games published by Sony Interactive Entertainment America LLC., naughtydog.com and any other sites operated by SIEA or its subsidiaries (“SIEA”) or that link to these Terms of Service.

This only applies to the use of their network, not the ESO game itself, since that's owned by ZOS. So the PS terms don't apply.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

PlayStation.com/network and other PlayStation® Network branded websites and services are operated by Sony Interactive Entertainment Network America LLC or its affiliates and are governed by the PlayStation Network Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.

This is just saying that Playstation branded services are operated by Sony. ESO itself is not a PlayStation branded service. So none of the stuff in this document applies to the save files, which are on ZOS's servers, not Sony's.

From the ZOS's TOS:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If You purchase Services from an authorized ZeniMax reseller, including purchases on Bethesda.net or requiring a Bethesda.net account, console manufacturers and/or other resellers (collectively, “Resellers”), then You will be making payments to such Reseller for such Services. For clarity, these Terms of Service will apply to all such Services as if such Services had been purchased from ZeniMax. In connection with payments made to Resellers, the Resellers will collect personal information from You, including without limitation credit card, debit card and other payment information. Your disclosure of information to a Reseller and Your purchases of Services from a Reseller will be subject to the Reseller’s terms of service and Privacy Policy (collectively, the “Reseller Terms”). The Reseller Terms are in addition to these Terms of Service and the ZeniMax Privacy Policy. Such Reseller Terms do not modify or amend these Terms of Service or ZeniMax’s Privacy Policy.

This is only saying that the PS network is acting as a reseller for ZOS, and that payments made to ZOS are made through the PS network (and explains the Privacy stuff relating to that). This we know, but again, it doesn't affect what ZOS is allowed to do with the ESO data, which ZOS still owns.

So I get why you might be confused, but I see nothing there that gives Sony any ownership over ZOS's ESO data, which is on ZOS's own servers.

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm reading your comments BUT in reading what you're asking and understanding how it works, no. What you want to happen and what you're asking for and how it would be done differ.


Let's go back....the reason I quoted the part about the console copy is because the very important thing is when your file was copied to console....the delete file was not and it was left on PC.

While ZOS manages the servers and the save files....your PS4 account belongs to Sony.
That save file, if ZOS agrees to allow you to "copy" the PS4 save and overwrite the PC save, there is a conflict because the process prior excludes the other file. The delete file.

The Sony account requires permission from Sony as specific to your desires, you're asking Sony to allow not you but allow ZOS to take a file and content purchased on Sony networks and move it to PC which is both a partner and a competitor.

The whole reason it was a big deal the first time is because Sony lost potential revenue as "we" we're being allowed to take a product purchased exclusively via ZOS and import that data onto the PSN network. Other than the $20 we paid for the game, Sony lost potential revenue.

Now you're asking both Sony and ZOS to strike a deal that would allow you to keep progress and take revenue split between Sony and ZOS which all along could have been 100% exclusive to ZOS.
From a business standpoint, there is a calculate loss and removes a potential to recoup.
Further, ZOS may not have rights to delete a PSN file and this may be solely up to Sony.

Your request while it's clear isn't the process which we do know as of today....would be a copy and not a transfer which may or may not require a new PC account.

I'm sorry... What?

I'm not trying to sound rude or mean here, but I don't think you have any idea what you talking about.

All character data is owned entirely by ZOS, and resides on ZOS's servers, for all accounts on all platforms. ZOS would be free to do whatever they want with that data. It's not a "PS4 save file" at all. They didn't need to import or export anything to the PSN network, other than maybe the info that the account exists. They wouldn't have to do anything with Sony to transfer character data back.

Sony/Microsoft got their money when the player purchased the console version of the game. That's it. Sure, I'd imagine they get some kind of royalty from ZOS for using their network, and it's possible that they might even get a portion of crown store sales, but I don't even know about that. So they wouldn't really be losing anything.

There appears to be a few agreements that apply.

[...]

Im not gonna copy n paste it all but if I'm wrong point it out cause I have a different understand than your comment above. In short. The consoles are on their own networks exclusively. While ZOS may run the server the save files are also on the console network to some detail. I know this specifically applies to Xbox live and I'm assuming the same applies to psn.

Am I wrong?

Yes the consoles are on their own networks, and yes Sony/M$ own those networks, but there's nothing that says they own or control any aspect of character data ("save files"). Conversely, Section 2 of the ZOS ToS specifically states:

All Content made available by ZeniMax, unless explicitly identified as third party content, is owned by ZeniMax

Where "Content" is defined as:
"Content" includes technology, text, forum posts, chat posts, profiles, widgets, messages, links, emails, music, sound, graphics, animations, animation-style videos, content, pictures, code, files, data, characters (and items and attributes associated with characters), and all audio visual or other material appearing on or emanating to and/or from the Services,[...]
With "Services" defined as:
ZeniMax offers a range of services on PC, Mac, iOS devices, consoles, and mobile devices, including, but not limited to: (i) access to Content (defined in Section 2), (ii) games and other products or services that You install or play, including, but not limited to, ZeniMax’s computer and console entertainment software game(s) (collectively, “Game(s)”),[...]

That implies that ZOS owns and controls every part of your character data. You may have paid Sony/M$ for access to the Services in their capacity as Resellers, but once the purchase is done and your access is granted, their involvement in the Services seems to end. I don't see anything then that says Sony/M$ would have any control over character data, which is ZeniMax-owned Content.

Divinius

Enodoc wrote: »

Yes the consoles are on their own networks, and yes Sony/M$ own those networks, but there's nothing that says they own or control any aspect of character data ("save files"). Conversely, Section 2 of the ZOS ToS specifically states:

All Content made available by ZeniMax, unless explicitly identified as third party content, is owned by ZeniMax

Where "Content" is defined as:
"Content" includes technology, text, forum posts, chat posts, profiles, widgets, messages, links, emails, music, sound, graphics, animations, animation-style videos, content, pictures, code, files, data, characters (and items and attributes associated with characters), and all audio visual or other material appearing on or emanating to and/or from the Services,[...]
With "Services" defined as:
ZeniMax offers a range of services on PC, Mac, iOS devices, consoles, and mobile devices, including, but not limited to: (i) access to Content (defined in Section 2), (ii) games and other products or services that You install or play, including, but not limited to, ZeniMax’s computer and console entertainment software game(s) (collectively, “Game(s)”),[...]

That implies that ZOS owns and controls every part of your character data. You may have paid Sony/M$ for access to the Services in their capacity as Resellers, but once the purchase is done and your access is granted, their involvement in the Services seems to end. I don't see anything then that says Sony/M$ would have any control over character data, which is ZeniMax-owned Content.

Once again, you've explained it far more coherently and succinctly than I could. Thanks.

Asuryan11

WHY are people arguing so much over this? like is it really affecting some of you that much if they are asking if it can be done again? yes sony would have to agree, same as microsoft. the barriers between the 3 platforms are loosening and we are able to cross play games with the recent gaming news. also microsoft's windows 10 PC/xbox one moving into one announcement. If it has to be done, pay both microsoft/sony and zenimax for the transfer. set the limits(no carrying over x amount of items) or just the characters progress/CP. Again ZOS sets the limits and how it is done. wipe the console copy or whatever. I quite enjoy xbox one and will stay there since my transfer but why complain about others wanting to switch so badly?

Enodoc

Divinius wrote: »

Once again, you've explained it far more coherently and succinctly than I could. Thanks.

I think we did quite well in tandem actually You explained why the PSN terms don't apply much better than I did, I just came across the ZOS terms that do.

Teamwork!

NewBlacksmurf

Divinius wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf First, kudos to you for reading through all those legal documents. That's a lot of stuff to sift through.

But here's where I think your confusion might be:

From the PlayStation Terms of Use:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Welcome to the PlayStation® family of web sites (“Sites” or “our Sites”). These Terms of Service apply to us.playstation.com, all official game sites for games published by Sony Interactive Entertainment America LLC., naughtydog.com and any other sites operated by SIEA or its subsidiaries (“SIEA”) or that link to these Terms of Service.

This only applies to the use of their network, not the ESO game itself, since that's owned by ZOS. So the PS terms don't apply.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

PlayStation.com/network and other PlayStation® Network branded websites and services are operated by Sony Interactive Entertainment Network America LLC or its affiliates and are governed by the PlayStation Network Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.

This is just saying that Playstation branded services are operated by Sony. ESO itself is not a PlayStation branded service. So none of the stuff in this document applies to the save files, which are on ZOS's servers, not Sony's.

From the ZOS's TOS:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If You purchase Services from an authorized ZeniMax reseller, including purchases on Bethesda.net or requiring a Bethesda.net account, console manufacturers and/or other resellers (collectively, “Resellers”), then You will be making payments to such Reseller for such Services. For clarity, these Terms of Service will apply to all such Services as if such Services had been purchased from ZeniMax. In connection with payments made to Resellers, the Resellers will collect personal information from You, including without limitation credit card, debit card and other payment information. Your disclosure of information to a Reseller and Your purchases of Services from a Reseller will be subject to the Reseller’s terms of service and Privacy Policy (collectively, the “Reseller Terms”). The Reseller Terms are in addition to these Terms of Service and the ZeniMax Privacy Policy. Such Reseller Terms do not modify or amend these Terms of Service or ZeniMax’s Privacy Policy.

This is only saying that the PS network is acting as a reseller for ZOS, and that payments made to ZOS are made through the PS network (and explains the Privacy stuff relating to that). This we know, but again, it doesn't affect what ZOS is allowed to do with the ESO data, which ZOS still owns.

So I get why you might be confused, but I see nothing there that gives Sony any ownership over ZOS's ESO data, which is on ZOS's own servers.

These are separate terms but they don't apply independent of one another. I'm not confused because regardless of who owns the save file, the account required to play is owned by PSN and licensed as such. In order to play TESO TU on PS4, you must have both a PSN account and ZOS account but only are allowed to play ESO on the PSN network with PS4 hardware.

Key here..the PS4 hardware produced the save file status in question.


So the site where the game is located, the account which is required for PSN and the network which is required to play on, is integrated with ZOS' server. This is all together and not separate so in the matter of, ZOS, they cannot allow anyone to move their account from console to PC without written permission from Sony due to all of the above and for sure some other Developer legal stuff that we don't have access to unless you're a dev. The account is not owned by the customer nor does ZOS own anything on the PSN network so anything on the PSN network has to go through Sony legally.

The specific file...is being access through Sony so that by default makes that file part of Sony's intellectual property. Remember on console...everything is purchase from Sony and handled on the back end 30 days or so later...thus the ESO plus crowns debacle.



More:

In the specifics of those of us who purchased the transfer, we paid ZOS who through an agreement, granted us a license to play on console. Once on console....we are....on console.

I started with the site because the game...has a game site so all of that applies because the code we were given to access the game via this special offer is access to the same product ID on the site. - https://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/games/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/cid=UP1003-CUSA00132_00-GAMECLIENT000000

Then I move to the account and the networks which we see here specific to this topic are integrated together.

"We continue to work on the console versions of ESO, and game development has been progressing steadily, but we are still working to solve a series of unique problems specific to those platforms. Integrating our systems with each console manufacturer’s networks—which are both different from the PC/Mac system as well as different from each other"


All of this to say...the OP is asking a much bigger question than..hey ZOS can I move my save over here. Its not that simple.

Divinius

I'm not really interested in continuing to explain to you why I believe you are incorrect, but I will at least address this comment:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The specific file...is being access through Sony so that by default makes that file part of Sony's intellectual property.

This is 100% completely and totally false.
As Enodoc pointed out, ZOS owns that file, solely. It is not Sony's IP in any way. Sony has no rights to the file just because it is accessed through their network, for the same reason that you have no rights to the file just because you access it through your ISP, console, and TV.

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

These are separate terms but they don't apply independent of one another. I'm not confused because regardless of who owns the save file, the account required to play is owned by PSN and licensed as such. In order to play TESO TU on PS4, you must have both a PSN account and ZOS account but only are allowed to play ESO on the PSN network with PS4 hardware.

Yes, because your software license for that purchase is for PS4 software. To play the game on PC you need to buy a PC version license. But that doesn't affect the data storage, just the access.

So the site where the game is located, the account which is required for PSN and the network which is required to play on, is integrated with ZOS' server. This is all together and not separate so in the matter of, ZOS, they cannot allow anyone to move their account from console to PC without written permission from Sony due to all of the above and for sure some other Developer legal stuff that we don't have access to unless you're a dev. The account is not owned by the customer nor does ZOS own anything on the PSN network so anything on the PSN network has to go through Sony legally.

ZOS indeed doesn't own anything on the PSN network, but character information is stored on the ZOS network, not the PSN network.

The specific file...is being access through Sony so that by default makes that file part of Sony's intellectual property.

Sony is giving you access through PSN to the ESO PS4 server, owned by ZOS. The specific file is stored on the ESO server.

Consider the reverse; if the file was stored on the PSN network, it would be attached to your PSN ID, and you'd be able to log in to either the NA or the EU server and have the same characters available.


Similarly, if the file was stored on PSN, you wouldn't be able to change your linked PSN ID and keep your character progress. The very fact that you can change the PSN ID that is linked to your ZOS account and yet keep your character progress proves that your character data is stored with relation to your ZOS account, not your PSN ID.
Ah, scrap that. It appears whoever said that was possible initially was mistaken, or it is no longer the case (this is also relevant to @Eshelmen):
You will only be able to re-link your ESOTU account to the same PSN Online ID or Xbox Live Gold account to which it was previously linked. You will not be able to link your ESOTU account to a different console account.
I guess they decided that wasn't a good idea, to prevent account sharing. I'm sure someone said they were able to do it before, though...

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

These are separate terms but they don't apply independent of one another. I'm not confused because regardless of who owns the save file, the account required to play is owned by PSN and licensed as such. In order to play TESO TU on PS4, you must have both a PSN account and ZOS account but only are allowed to play ESO on the PSN network with PS4 hardware.

Yes, because your software license for that purchase is for PS4 software. To play the game on PC you need to buy a PC version license. But that doesn't affect the data storage, just the access.

So the site where the game is located, the account which is required for PSN and the network which is required to play on, is integrated with ZOS' server. This is all together and not separate so in the matter of, ZOS, they cannot allow anyone to move their account from console to PC without written permission from Sony due to all of the above and for sure some other Developer legal stuff that we don't have access to unless you're a dev. The account is not owned by the customer nor does ZOS own anything on the PSN network so anything on the PSN network has to go through Sony legally.

ZOS indeed doesn't own anything on the PSN network, but character information is stored on the ZOS network, not the PSN network.

The specific file...is being access through Sony so that by default makes that file part of Sony's intellectual property.

Sony is giving you access through PSN to the ESO PS4 server, owned by ZOS. The specific file is stored on the ESO server.

Consider the reverse; if the file was stored on the PSN network, it would be attached to your PSN ID, and you'd be able to log in to either the NA or the EU server and have the same characters available.


Similarly, if the file was stored on PSN, you wouldn't be able to change your linked PSN ID and keep your character progress. The very fact that you can change the PSN ID that is linked to your ZOS account and yet keep your character progress proves that your character data is stored with relation to your ZOS account, not your PSN ID.
Ah, scrap that. It appears whoever said that was possible initially was mistaken, or it is no longer the case (this is also relevant to @Eshelmen):
You will only be able to re-link your ESOTU account to the same PSN Online ID or Xbox Live Gold account to which it was previously linked. You will not be able to link your ESOTU account to a different console account.
I guess they decided that wasn't a good idea to prevent account sharing. I'm sure someone said they were able to do it before, though...

thanks for this....so it seems this disagrees with Sony's info?
ESO network and SOny's are intertwined...but PSN account trumps ZOS server file access because without PSN there is no access ZOS can't give customer access without using PSN network and PSN accounts....right?

The file is locked behind PSN...case and point...it belongs to Sony as far as the customer wanting ZOS to take a file only accessible via PSN network...even tho ZOS has access...they cant make changes to PSN network items or files accessible via the PSN agreement.


example:
ZOS initially wanted to let customers play ESO on consoles but ZOS didn't meet each consoles rules and requirements so the game was delayed because in order to play the game, ZOS had to first and foremost agree, and meet the PSN and Xbox Live terms and conditions...as well as abide by those rules and regulations.

While the product belongs to ZOS, the access is determined by PSN and Xbox Live so as far as the files being on ZOS' server, the game and the files can sit wherever but to access the files...PSN and Xbox Live are required.

The OP wants to ask ZOS to take the file from the PSN server and have ZOS overwrite or give access on the PC server. ZOS may own the server but to whats being requested, ZOS also must require the "rights" to perform this action on a PSN server regardless of the file location.

This creates a conflict of interest between ZOS and PSN and i'd imagine there are non-compete clauses in place.