WW2's TG meta was an embarrassing failure. DB meta the same?

Zheg

Wrobel and Wheeler (perhaps more than any other patch) fumbled in the combat and balance they gave us in the TG patch on a number of fronts. Almost all of these mistakes were well-forecast by players ahead of time, but players were not involved/listened to in the brainstorming, polishing, or PTS stages and we have the steaming pile of horse crap that we currently have as a meta. The fact that neither of them have the decency to address any of the issues (Brian gave a few generic lines about performance the other week, but these issues are ones they themselves created with balance tweaks) well over a month later is par for the course, but nevertheless just as shameful as every other time they do it.

I can only reiterate what people have been saying in dozens of threads over the past month for NA PC, so if your experiences in EU or on PS4/Xbox are different, consider yourselves lucky. I'm sure some people (somehow...) love this meta because they enjoy playing a broken NB suicide bomber spec, or enjoy helping to ensure a game-breaking bombard bug happens for enemies (because the permaroot wasn't bad enough on its own), or enjoy sitting on over-tuned siege and embrace their lack of skill (or, oneshot on bugged emp siege). But in my experience, the numbers at fights have multiplied to the extent that it's typical to have almost an entire alliance present, the capabilities of a smaller group to handle that behavior have been eviscerated, everyone and their mother is complaining about the permaroot/snare meta (except those that have a macro for the shuffle exploit ), even most of the people using it agree that the nb bomb and VD are broken and a terrible 'fix' for the core problem, and the maps heavily favor whoever night/day-capped because of how much more difficult it is to assault a keep in this patch vs defend it during primetime. I could go on and on about other failures in this patch, but in general I think that list sums up most of the common ones that the pvp playerbase tends to be in agreement on (though of course even on these few issues some will disagree).

Avoiding the temptation to continue ranting about the broken meta ww2 delivered, there are two simple questions that those two continue to neglect/refuse to address.

1. Will we continue to have to play in this meta without substantial changes to some of the more glaringly broken aspects of it for another 2 months, or will changes come sooner (or... later )?

2. What are the planned balance changes for the DB patch? So far all we know is that stamina will be a focus and reverse slash will be the latest laughable change via Wrobel. This patch should be hitting PTS in less than a month if the timelines hold true.


If it wasn't clear, I'd like to reiterate that these are issues strictly related to combat and the overall meta, I'm not even discussing the performance issues because those have been static for over a year now (though some of these issues certainly exacerbate performance issues, like the alliance v alliance fights you get at stacked keeps now).

Bashev

I doubt that the DB patch will come to PTS before the middle of June. And as usual when ZoS tell us what will be changed it will be too late for any changes. They will tell us that they will invite @wrobel to the ESO live 2 weeks after the PTS patch so we can test the changes but it will be late for our feedback.

Publius_Scipio

I remember either reading or hearing on an episode of ESO Live that DB DLC is the one that is going to contain a lot of skill tweaks and balances.

Taonnor

Bashev wrote: »

I doubt that the DB patch will come to PTS before the middle of June. And as usual when ZoS tell us what will be changed it will be too late for any changes. They will tell us that they will invite @wrobel to the ESO live 2 weeks after the PTS patch so we can test the changes but it will be late for our feedback.

Correct. We have around 1 DLC latency to our feedback. The changes then are mixed with answers on our feedback and new ideas from @Wrobel which had no feedback from us.

Best in my eyes is they separate the class balancing from DLC patches with own milestone patches and own quality process to have shorter feedback loops.

KenaPKK

Can someone please explain the Shuffle bug to me? I keep hearing about it, but I've yet to find someone who knows exactly what it does or how it works.

Zheg

KenaPKK wrote: »

Can someone please explain the Shuffle bug to me? I keep hearing about it, but I've yet to find someone who knows exactly what it does or how it works.

It was posted yesterday, ZOS deleted it and then said they're working on it. The bug apparently allows you to get up to 80% (haven't tested that part myself) dodge chance, but in general involves stacking the 20% dodge chance buff. Keep any discussion of the mechanics of it to messages and in-game whispers or ZOS will just delete things.

GreenSoup2HoT

As a Bomarb spammer i gotta ask Wrobel one question... Where is the snare/root immunity?

In a stamina users defence, what else do you want us to do in this proxi/sap meta? We cannot face tank the un-dodge-able sap's. So this is what i have resorted to.

I hate how this game has become "who can cheese more" rather then skill. Ap is ap and im going to get it, so don't blame me for Zos's failures when i use Bombard...sorry. I dont blame VD bombers, you use whats given to you.

-We need buffs to various ult's. Standard, Veil of Blades, Negate, Nova come to mind. In my opinion they need range increases.
-We need snare/root immunity
-We need shuffle fixed
-We need Proxi tweaked (linear scaling to exponentail)

These are a couple things id like to see personally.

Sallington

As long as the PvE content doesn't have any game-breaking bugs, the DLC will be pushed out. God only knows what kind of balance "fixes" we can expect. I.E what kind of gimmicky gear sets we can expect.

That's just the way it is.
-2PAC

Xsorus

Zheg wrote: »

Wrobel and Wheeler (perhaps more than any other patch) fumbled in the combat and balance they gave us in the TG patch on a number of fronts. Almost all of these mistakes were well-forecast by players ahead of time, but players were not involved/listened to in the brainstorming, polishing, or PTS stages and we have the steaming pile of horse crap that we currently have as a meta. The fact that neither of them have the decency to address any of the issues (Brian gave a few generic lines about performance the other week, but these issues are ones they themselves created with balance tweaks) well over a month later is par for the course, but nevertheless just as shameful as every other time they do it.

I can only reiterate what people have been saying in dozens of threads over the past month for NA PC, so if your experiences in EU or on PS4/Xbox are different, consider yourselves lucky. I'm sure some people (somehow...) love this meta because they enjoy playing a broken NB suicide bomber spec, or enjoy helping to ensure a game-breaking bombard bug happens for enemies (because the permaroot wasn't bad enough on its own), or enjoy sitting on over-tuned siege and embrace their lack of skill (or, oneshot on bugged emp siege). But in my experience, the numbers at fights have multiplied to the extent that it's typical to have almost an entire alliance present, the capabilities of a smaller group to handle that behavior have been eviscerated, everyone and their mother is complaining about the permaroot/snare meta (except those that have a macro for the shuffle exploit ), even most of the people using it agree that the nb bomb and VD are broken and a terrible 'fix' for the core problem, and the maps heavily favor whoever night/day-capped because of how much more difficult it is to assault a keep in this patch vs defend it during primetime. I could go on and on about other failures in this patch, but in general I think that list sums up most of the common ones that the pvp playerbase tends to be in agreement on (though of course even on these few issues some will disagree).

Avoiding the temptation to continue ranting about the broken meta ww2 delivered, there are two simple questions that those two continue to neglect/refuse to address.

1. Will we continue to have to play in this meta without substantial changes to some of the more glaringly broken aspects of it for another 2 months, or will changes come sooner (or... later )?

2. What are the planned balance changes for the DB patch? So far all we know is that stamina will be a focus and reverse slash will be the latest laughable change via Wrobel. This patch should be hitting PTS in less than a month if the timelines hold true.


If it wasn't clear, I'd like to reiterate that these are issues strictly related to combat and the overall meta, I'm not even discussing the performance issues because those have been static for over a year now (though some of these issues certainly exacerbate performance issues, like the alliance v alliance fights you get at stacked keeps now).

First let's clear something up; you are not a small group... You're running in a Zerg and you're upset that specific tactic isn't as viable as it was.

Second your biggest issue with the fights and alliances in one spot stems from the one thing you didn't mention in your post. The stupid forward camps being added back. For example last night I kept killing the same group of EP over and over again but within 30 seconds of dying they'd be right back at glade mist like nothing happened

Fights have ended up not mattering anymore cause of this and when you have two bloody classes that can escape fights to throw down these camps with ease you end up with these never ending battles.

Rune_Relic

Is no surprise better than an unpleasant suprise ?
Especially one you get permanently stuck with.

But...but....surely everyone likes surprises ?
I love pressies at xmas and birthday.
Did you not get cake ?

OP you'll get what you're given and like it or its straight to bed and no supper for you.
Ungrateful little upstart.

GreenSoup2HoT

@Xsorus

Me personally, someone who runs with a 12 man group love Forward Camps. We can contest big zergs with smart play and siegeing while defending keeps/outposts.

I do agree though, ive had some fights last over 2 hours on a resource. A freaking 3 way faction fight as Alessia. My faction Blue on the Alessia mine. Yellow with an unflagged Alessia Keep and Red pushing from Sejanus. 2 hours later, red stopped pushing and i got a freaking 34k point tick from the mine! Thats insane. I gotta admit though, the fight was pretty bad ass. The mine tower went down 3 times and we repaired it. Tons of siege and spread out fights. This was a pop locked campaign. EVERYONE was their. No joke.

So it goes both ways. Each faction could of left and took over tons of keeps if they wanted to but everyone is out for blood.

Zheg

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Wrobel and Wheeler (perhaps more than any other patch) fumbled in the combat and balance they gave us in the TG patch on a number of fronts. Almost all of these mistakes were well-forecast by players ahead of time, but players were not involved/listened to in the brainstorming, polishing, or PTS stages and we have the steaming pile of horse crap that we currently have as a meta. The fact that neither of them have the decency to address any of the issues (Brian gave a few generic lines about performance the other week, but these issues are ones they themselves created with balance tweaks) well over a month later is par for the course, but nevertheless just as shameful as every other time they do it.

I can only reiterate what people have been saying in dozens of threads over the past month for NA PC, so if your experiences in EU or on PS4/Xbox are different, consider yourselves lucky. I'm sure some people (somehow...) love this meta because they enjoy playing a broken NB suicide bomber spec, or enjoy helping to ensure a game-breaking bombard bug happens for enemies (because the permaroot wasn't bad enough on its own), or enjoy sitting on over-tuned siege and embrace their lack of skill (or, oneshot on bugged emp siege). But in my experience, the numbers at fights have multiplied to the extent that it's typical to have almost an entire alliance present, the capabilities of a smaller group to handle that behavior have been eviscerated, everyone and their mother is complaining about the permaroot/snare meta (except those that have a macro for the shuffle exploit ), even most of the people using it agree that the nb bomb and VD are broken and a terrible 'fix' for the core problem, and the maps heavily favor whoever night/day-capped because of how much more difficult it is to assault a keep in this patch vs defend it during primetime. I could go on and on about other failures in this patch, but in general I think that list sums up most of the common ones that the pvp playerbase tends to be in agreement on (though of course even on these few issues some will disagree).

Avoiding the temptation to continue ranting about the broken meta ww2 delivered, there are two simple questions that those two continue to neglect/refuse to address.

1. Will we continue to have to play in this meta without substantial changes to some of the more glaringly broken aspects of it for another 2 months, or will changes come sooner (or... later )?

2. What are the planned balance changes for the DB patch? So far all we know is that stamina will be a focus and reverse slash will be the latest laughable change via Wrobel. This patch should be hitting PTS in less than a month if the timelines hold true.


If it wasn't clear, I'd like to reiterate that these are issues strictly related to combat and the overall meta, I'm not even discussing the performance issues because those have been static for over a year now (though some of these issues certainly exacerbate performance issues, like the alliance v alliance fights you get at stacked keeps now).

First let's clear something up; you are not a small group... You're running in a Zerg and you're upset that specific tactic isn't as viable as it was.

Second your biggest issue with the fights and alliances in one spot stems from the one thing you didn't mention in your post. The stupid forward camps being added back. For example last night I kept killing the same group of EP over and over again but within 30 seconds of dying they'd be right back at glade mist like nothing happened

Fights have ended up not mattering anymore cause of this and when you have two bloody classes that can escape fights to throw down these camps with ease you end up with these never ending battles.

I've been running in group of 6-10 on average over the past week because no one can stomach the bombard, broken CC breaks, nor performance of this patch (and still fighting against 50 reds at times). And because you lack basic reading comprehension, I said smaller groups. Even a group of 20 is indeed smaller than the horde of 60+ that run between chalman and ales every night on TF.

I've made my views on FCs very clear on the forums, but not everyone seems to be in agreement on that, and the other issues I highlighted at least seem to have large agreement among the playerbase.

Xsorus

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Xsorus

Me personally, someone who runs with a 12 man group love Forward Camps. We can contest big zergs with smart play and siegeing while defending keeps/outposts.

I do agree though, ive had some fights last over 2 hours on a resource. A freaking 3 way faction fight as Alessia. My faction Blue on the Alessia mine. Yellow with an unflagged Alessia Keep and Red pushing from Sejanus. 2 hours later, red stopped pushing and i got a freaking 34k point tick from the mine! Thats insane. I gotta admit though, the fight was pretty bad ass. The mine tower went down 3 times and we repaired it. Tons of siege and spread out fights.

So it goes both ways. Each faction could of left and took over tons of keeps if they wanted to but everyone is out for blood.

That's the issue with camps; it makes the action more like a battlegrounds or wars one type setting but the problem is that's not how the game is designed. If you want quick battles like this they should add it into the game via battlegrounds or add some type of capturing mechanic in imperial city with its close spawn points so people can get the same thrill.

staracino_ESO

Xsorus wrote: »

That's the issue with camps; it makes the action more like a battlegrounds or wars one type setting but the problem is that's not how the game is designed. If you want quick battles like this they should add it into the game via battlegrounds or add some type of capturing mechanic in imperial city with its close spawn points so people can get the same thrill.

I am generally in favor for camps, but this is an extremely compelling point/alternative to camps.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Xsorus wrote: »

That's the issue with camps; it makes the action more like a battlegrounds or wars one type setting but the problem is that's not how the game is designed. If you want quick battles like this they should add it into the game via battlegrounds or add some type of capturing mechanic in imperial city with its close spawn points so people can get the same thrill.

The current camps are much better for PvP than no camps. Without camps we go back to horse simulator, which encourages people to take no risks for fear of having another boring run back.

I will admit that the current corpse timer is very long, which allows people to get a camp rez in places where they shouldn't. But that could be addressed by putting enemy camps on the compass, if you are close enough

Xsorus

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

That's the issue with camps; it makes the action more like a battlegrounds or wars one type setting but the problem is that's not how the game is designed. If you want quick battles like this they should add it into the game via battlegrounds or add some type of capturing mechanic in imperial city with its close spawn points so people can get the same thrill.

The current camps are much better for PvP than no camps. Without camps we go back to horse simulator, which encourages people to take no risks for fear of having another boring run back.

I will admit that the current corpse timer is very long, which allows people to get a camp rez in places where they shouldn't. But that could be addressed by putting enemy camps on the compass, if you are close enough

See you're complaining about a fundamental concept of large scale pvp game with a large map; that when you die you have to run back.. Which is how is should be.... Otherwise there is zero action in the lanes between keeps and towers and it kind of pools around objectives.

If they want a shorter spawn system they should make IC that.. Just add objectives in their so people feel like it serves a purpose. This would help with lag on the main map also.

RadioheadSh0t

The fact that they "No ETA'd" the next ESO Live is not an encouraging sign.

Satiar

The trouble with camps is they make things a numbers game at keeps.

I know I'm going to sound like a sore loser here, but anyways: camps are ***. Anyone who was at my last two dethrone attempts should be able to look at how camps function and call them ***. It is incredibly depressive to push with 20 people through insane siege and ranged DPS, wipe 20 on a breach, and watch them instantly Rez 10 yards away. It is infuriating to kill over 90 people inside the courtyard of an emp keep as they continually camp and respawn over and over and over and over until you're out of resources and ultimate and down you go. It creates a zombie style mentality, where there is no room for tactics because your enemies literally throw themselves at you in waves, because the consequences for dying are nil. As the group trying to fight outnumbered, under siege, watching everyone I kill immediately Rez up inside a flagged keep... It is NONSENSE.

The only way to win here is to bring bigger numbers. That's it. That's the simple truth.

At the end here I'm going to give a plug to how annoying this meta us in terms of roots, snared, etc. Every single fight is fought in caltrops and bombard. There is no fluidity of movement anymore. Nightblade burst is off the charts, and usually happens by some "zerg buster" who hits your 10 people while you're fighting 30.

All in all, it's just a disaster. Last two nights I led raid, one with 22 people one with 12. Got over 1k kills in 4 hours both times. Still left me feeling ugh. The fun fights are few and far between, fights where there isn't crippling lag and there using fifteen people standing at max range pounding you with bombards to the point you can't move or cast a skill. Fights to take keeps are silly now, take it fast or never, watch the hordes camp over and over and over.

We need adjustments here. Anything. Make camps only placeable outside keep walls, increase the cool down, institute Rez sickness. Give us root immunity like CC immunity. Toss us a bone here, it's just not fun

HoloYoitsu

[tangent]
Just introduce a FC rez sickness for a few min or so, the time is arbitrary and should be fine tuned through play testing.

The debuff needs to be significant enough that it prevents groups/pug hordes from deciding it's a viable strategy to potato back into the fight. Something like decreased stats, no ult gen, can't place siege, w/e.

The goal should be to force people who rez at camps to hold back and regroup for a meaningful amount of time, rather than just streaming back into the same fight and making an unending zombie horde.

Of course, this would be asking ZOS to code something new, and it already took them over a year just to lower the radius value for FCs, add a check for if PlayerSpawnAtCamp, add Counter(120 sec), and another check for, if(GetPlayerCoordinates not in ForwardCampRadius) or (PlayerHasCounter), AlowSpawn = '0'. Not real code, just meant to represent the logic.

Going off the FCs now, those are literally the only changes that have been made to FCs. It's quite disconcerting to anyone who is hopeful for any kind of mechanic changes to Cyrodiil, because Wheeler had been telling us they were 'working on redesigning forward camps' for a year, ever since he removed them. I'm sorry but, that's not a year's worth of coding.
[/tangent]

Yolokin_Swagonborn

The problem with PvP is, and will always be the introduction of the Champion system and the removal of softcaps. This started us down the path of a high damage burst meta that just isn't as fun to play as the old resource management meta. If ZOS had to reduce healing, shields and damage by 50%, and you can still two shot people and heal to full in a few casts then something is really out of whack.

Most of the people that have actually tried Azuras really like it but even still, Azuras still has issues since the entire game was re-balanced around the champion system and about 5k-10k of resources were actually stolen from everyone's character so that you had to grind them back with CP. Sneak cost was sneakily increased so you had to grind legerdemain. A lot of ninja nerfs were put into place when CP were added so just having a campaign with no CP isn't enough.

ZOS will keep trying to bandaid fix cyrodiil, but burst damage meta is just aggravating and not fun. You can't have a high damage COD like meta when the lag is so bad that you can die within one lag spike while you can't control your character. Burst and Lag compound to make the game unenjoyable.

The bandaids need to stop. The only way to really balance cyro is to get down to the nuts and bolts and re-balance it from scratch. Here are a few steps in the right direction.

• ZOS needs to come up with a way to independently balance skills in PvP Separate from PvE. Other games have had this from day one. Certain skills should act differently in PvP than in PvE. This will also help get the PvE'ers to stop accusing us of getting all their skills nerfed and will allow ZOS to individually tweak the power of skills instead of trying to fix everything with a blanket nerf like battle spirit.
• The health nerf (attribute assignment) needs to be reverted for Cyrodiil only. This will encourage tankier and more balanced builds.
• The majority of buffs, regen, sustain should come from ARMOR TYPE, not CP. If you want to be less squishy, wear more heavy armor. More regen? Wear more medium or light. This idea of a light armor build taking 25% less damage from just CP is plain ridiculous. Same thing with medium armor getting 25% magicka resist. It's another band-aid. When everyone has max CP it just becomes another 25% nerf to damage and nothing more.
• Smarter Softer Soft Caps. I don't think returning to the old soft cap system is the way to go. But the controls need to go somewhere. If you have out of control regen and attributes, then people will keep crying for nerfs on skills that were fine before you could either spam them indefinitely, or increase their effects to ridiculous levels with uncapped resource pools. I don't think resources should be capped but their effect on damage, shields, and heals should be capped. If you want to run around with 50k magicka or 50k health thats fine but there should be a cutoff point to how much those attributes can effect your skills. This would allow ZOS to reduce or remove the battle spirit nerfs to damage/shielding/healing.

This is just a start and by all means it ain't perfect but this is the direction ZOS needs to look into.

Darnathian

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Can someone please explain the Shuffle bug to me? I keep hearing about it, but I've yet to find someone who knows exactly what it does or how it works.

It was posted yesterday, ZOS deleted it and then said they're working on it. The bug apparently allows you to get up to 80% (haven't tested that part myself) dodge chance, but in general involves stacking the 20% dodge chance buff. Keep any discussion of the mechanics of it to messages and in-game whispers or ZOS will just delete things.

Hello Kodi, Chief, lol. They dont even need it

Satiar

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The problem with PvP is, and will always be the introduction of the Champion system and the removal of softcaps. This started us down the path of a high damage burst meta that just isn't as fun to play as the old resource management meta. If ZOS had to reduce healing, shields and damage by 50%, and you can still two shot people and heal to full in a few casts then something is really out of whack.

Most of the people that have actually tried Azuras really like it but even still, Azuras still has issues since the entire game was re-balanced around the champion system and about 5k-10k of resources were actually stolen from everyone's character so that you had to grind them back with CP. Sneak cost was sneakily increased so you had to grind legerdemain. A lot of ninja nerfs were put into place when CP were added so just having a campaign with no CP isn't enough.

ZOS will keep trying to bandaid fix cyrodiil, but burst damage meta is just aggravating and not fun. You can't have a high damage COD like meta when the lag is so bad that you can die within one lag spike while you can't control your character. Burst and Lag compound to make the game unenjoyable.

The bandaids need to stop. The only way to really balance cyro is to get down to the nuts and bolts and re-balance it from scratch. Here are a few steps in the right direction.

• ZOS needs to come up with a way to independently balance skills in PvP Separate from PvE. Other games have had this from day one. Certain skills should act differently in PvP than in PvE. This will also help get the PvE'ers to stop accusing us of getting all their skills nerfed and will allow ZOS to individually tweak the power of skills instead of trying to fix everything with a blanket nerf like battle spirit.
• The health nerf (attribute assignment) needs to be reverted for Cyrodiil only. This will encourage tankier and more balanced builds.
• The majority of buffs, regen, sustain should come from ARMOR TYPE, not CP. If you want to be less squishy, wear more heavy armor. More regen? Wear more medium or light. This idea of a light armor build taking 25% less damage from just CP is plain ridiculous. Same thing with medium armor getting 25% magicka resist. It's another band-aid. When everyone has max CP it just becomes another 25% nerf to damage and nothing more.
• Smarter Softer Soft Caps. I don't think returning to the old soft cap system is the way to go. But the controls need to go somewhere. If you have out of control regen and attributes, then people will keep crying for nerfs on skills that were fine before you could either spam them indefinitely, or increase their effects to ridiculous levels with uncapped resource pools. I don't think resources should be capped but their effect on damage, shields, and heals should be capped. If you want to run around with 50k magicka or 50k health thats fine but there should be a cutoff point to how much those attributes can effect your skills. This would allow ZOS to reduce or remove the battle spirit nerfs to damage/shielding/healing.

This is just a start and by all means it ain't perfect but this is the direction ZOS needs to look into.

Ya things are way out of control. I just want some kind of... Communication, something I can point to and tell my guild: "They know, they're working on it, wait and see." But there is not even that.

Zheg

Satiar wrote: »

Ya things are way out of control. I just want some kind of... Communication, something I can point to and tell my guild: "They know, they're working on it, wait and see." But there is not even that.

I got a forum message from wrobel today. Hopefully we get a lengthy post outlining things soon, a post at least 1/4th the length of the novel I wrote him back

Satiar

Zheg wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ya things are way out of control. I just want some kind of... Communication, something I can point to and tell my guild: "They know, they're working on it, wait and see." But there is not even that.

I got a forum message from wrobel today. Hopefully we get a lengthy post outlining things soon, a post at least 1/4th the length of the novel I wrote him back

For real? Elaborate!!!!!!

Zheg

Satiar wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ya things are way out of control. I just want some kind of... Communication, something I can point to and tell my guild: "They know, they're working on it, wait and see." But there is not even that.

I got a forum message from wrobel today. Hopefully we get a lengthy post outlining things soon, a post at least 1/4th the length of the novel I wrote him back

For real? Elaborate!!!!!!

Nothing to elaborate on. He said there were many changes coming in DB, asked for specifics on my issues with the meta, I wrote him a novel, hopefully we get some specifics soon.

allen-iverson

i think they might be making this game worse with each patch on purpose to do us a genuine favor by encouraging us to get away from our computers and out into the world climbing trees and designing erotic otherkin saxtoys

Vaoh

KenaPKK wrote: »

Can someone please explain the Shuffle bug to me? I keep hearing about it, but I've yet to find someone who knows exactly what it does or how it works.

A few threads over the past couple days have asked the same question. There is currently a way to allow that 20% dodge chance on Shuffle to reach much higher percentages than 20%. The exploit is known to very few individuals, so those threads were closed to avoid having the entire community exploit it.

ZOS simultaneously contacted some of the players who were knowledgeable of the exploit so it can be fixed, probably in time for Dark Brotherhood.

Let's try not to utterly ruin PvP by having every build run around with maxed out dodge chance please.

Rainingblood

This game has become a joke and nothing more than something to pass the time for anyone left still playing. The devs just flat-out ignore the people still paying money for this crap, which is just a slap in the face when upcoming titles have devs that actually communicate. The whole "oh they'll fix X in the next DLC" is a pipe dream and they've proven that they aren't going to fix any of the major flaws. They will just milk this cash cow until there's no one left.

bitaken

Forward camps : 2 minute timer is too short. Should be doubled to 4 minutes. If you can't survive for 4 minutes and be effective for 4 minutes you don't get to dive into a fight again without a severe penalty. These should be used to get people up who are needed but un rezable in their present position. Right now they can freely be used to dive bomb and then reset. While I am typically the dive bomber bombing 30+ AD on Azuras...I also hate that these same 50 can rez and get back to the fight as I am dousing them with oil over and over and they are worth 5 AP every time we kill them. There is no skill in either mindset. The game needs skill brought back in - the current Zerg2Win is more powerful than EVER.

Perma Snare / Root is silly. So many sorcs going ice staff to abuse this and I see many archer's just spamming bombard in favor of using any skills whatsoever and being able to win because of it.

Nothing wrong with VD or Proxy. Though Magblade is dealing a tad too much dmg on the bomb and should need more co-ordination between classes to pull off the big explosions of AP we are seeing two magblades pull off now easily. Should be more synergy based and less dive in kill all collect AP.

AOE caps are probably beyond their point of protection. There are no need for these anymore. You want the Zerg2Win to stop? Start here. I can't stand watching 20 people stand on a cap casting Springs win because they all stand together casting springs and my Magblades are not online AT THAT MOMENT. Noobs standing in AOE should die - period - no more discussion. They should not get to win because they pile on and just stand around laughing off the massive amounts of damage they are not taking.

Reality: Game is dead in 6 months anyway. I'll hang around till this sub runs out and see what's what but there are some things that are so broken I can't really say I enjoy playing the game anymore. The game in it's current state has pigeonholed everyone that if the enemy runs a 24-50 man zerg - you can make a lot of AP but you can't expect to win.

Rainingblood

Satiar wrote: »

Ya things are way out of control. I just want some kind of... Communication, something I can point to and tell my guild: "They know, they're working on it, wait and see." But there is not even that.

We've been hearing that line for two years of broken mechanics, broken content, and broken promises.

Xsorus

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

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Just introduce a FC rez sickness for a few min or so, the time is arbitrary and should be fine tuned through play testing.

The debuff needs to be significant enough that it prevents groups/pug hordes from deciding it's a viable strategy to potato back into the fight. Something like decreased stats, no ult gen, can't place siege, w/e.

The goal should be to force people who rez at camps to hold back and regroup for a meaningful amount of time, rather than just streaming back into the same fight and making an unending zombie horde.

Of course, this would be asking ZOS to code something new, and it already took them over a year just to lower the radius value for FCs, add a check for if PlayerSpawnAtCamp, add Counter(120 sec), and another check for, if(GetPlayerCoordinates not in ForwardCampRadius) or (PlayerHasCounter), AlowSpawn = '0'. Not real code, just meant to represent the logic.

Going off the FCs now, those are literally the only changes that have been made to FCs. It's quite disconcerting to anyone who is hopeful for any kind of mechanic changes to Cyrodiil, because Wheeler had been telling us they were 'working on redesigning forward camps' for a year, ever since he removed them. I'm sorry but, that's not a year's worth of coding.
[/tangent]

I posted what they did in DAOC before with Rez Sickness..but you are correct....They need Rez Sickness in this game.