Magika DK
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americansteel✭✭✭✭americansteel wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »OK but what about those who want DKs to be you know the go to tank class again ?
Don't even say " Oh DK best at 1v1 dueling bla bla bla". Just don't.
Ummm DK is the best tank class. I tank zergs solo for my guild everyday I pvp. Build it properly and it's good
sorcerers tank better unfortunately even in llight armor.
buff lava whip buff dragons blood.
I would love to see a sorc facetank 24 people with shields
sadly ive seen many sorcerers tank a sizeable group. then i see many teared filled messages sent to me.
a light armor class should not be able to pull this off even with OP DPS. DK tanks exist?NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
POOR SERVER PERFORMANCE
LAG
LOAD SCREENS
DONE0 -
DKsUnite✭✭✭✭✭
✭americansteel wrote: »americansteel wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »OK but what about those who want DKs to be you know the go to tank class again ?
Don't even say " Oh DK best at 1v1 dueling bla bla bla". Just don't.
Ummm DK is the best tank class. I tank zergs solo for my guild everyday I pvp. Build it properly and it's good
sorcerers tank better unfortunately even in llight armor.
buff lava whip buff dragons blood.
I would love to see a sorc facetank 24 people with shields
sadly ive seen many sorcerers tank a sizeable group. then i see many teared filled messages sent to me.
a light armor class should not be able to pull this off even with OP DPS. DK tanks exist?
Yah they do existVyr Cor | Magicka Dragonknight | DC
Vir Cor | Stamina Dragonknight | DC
Latest Videos:
Magicka Dragonknight: Vyr Cor | "A Dragon's Fury" | Magicka Dragonknight PvP
Stamina Dragonknight: Vir Cor | "Heathen" | Stamina Dragonknight PvP
Youtube: CorGaming0 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭@DKsUnite took a lot of your inputs on mDKs and tested in PTS. I'm not thrilled at the results but I am pleased. Thanks man.0 -
DKsUnite✭✭✭✭✭
✭DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »@DKsUnite took a lot of your inputs on mDKs and tested in PTS. I'm not thrilled at the results but I am pleased. Thanks man.
No worries. Happy that I could be of helpVyr Cor | Magicka Dragonknight | DC
Vir Cor | Stamina Dragonknight | DC
Latest Videos:
Magicka Dragonknight: Vyr Cor | "A Dragon's Fury" | Magicka Dragonknight PvP
Stamina Dragonknight: Vir Cor | "Heathen" | Stamina Dragonknight PvP
Youtube: CorGaming0 -
LokoMatic✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »Nice, get one ready. I haven't tried heavy yet, I know some people have success with it though. It's just hard to work in atm. I did pick up 5 pieces of elf bane impen I'll be trying out though.
If you have bloodspawn, Elf Bane may work. If not I would just stick with Kags. Kags forever and always! I'm definitely going to be trying out a heavy kags set up next patch. Heavy armor + vamp =0. Should be fun indeed! Also, I'm curious as to how you run with only 10k stam? I don;t see you running igneous so are just relying on dragon leap for the stam return? I have almost 17k on my DK with the help of some hakeijos and it's literally the best thing I could've done to my build.
I usually run 15-16k with tri food but I didn't have any in that pic. And yeah it's mainly pots and leap for regen, stamina sucks as a Magicka dk I'll be using some hakeijos soon as well.
Harbingers of Death
Poison Injection
Cp 910+
Dark Elf DK - Grand Overlord - (Xbox) NA - 129K Kills
Orc Stamblade - Level 10 (Xbox)
Argonian Templar - Level 23 (PC) (Auriels Bow Graduate (Retired))0 -
LokoMatic✭✭✭americansteel wrote: »
What's your GT, and what campaign? Been playing in non AD buff servers for testing / 1vX
Edited by LokoMatic on April 30, 2016 2:52PMHarbingers of Death
Poison Injection
Cp 910+
Dark Elf DK - Grand Overlord - (Xbox) NA - 129K Kills
Orc Stamblade - Level 10 (Xbox)
Argonian Templar - Level 23 (PC) (Auriels Bow Graduate (Retired))0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm ready to see how heavy armor 5/5 kagrenacs hope does in DB. With the resist from heavy armor and the changes to harness magicka, I think I can drop the magicka regen on my necklace and go 3/3 spell damage glyphs :P0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭Nice, get one ready. I haven't tried heavy yet, I know some people have success with it though. It's just hard to work in atm. I did pick up 5 pieces of elf bane impen I'll be trying out though.
He's ready.
"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)1 -
RabNebula✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.0 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
Edited by Ariades_swe on May 4, 2016 6:03PM0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
No, mag dk is one of if not the strongest 1v1 class.
Has been for a while.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
RabNebula✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've written is that youre quite an unpleasant and accusatory person. Unless you change your tone and talk builds and about your experiences rather than accusing other people of being bad when you know nothing about them then you should probably not take part in any discussion.4 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭I heard a rumor that zos is giving mdks specifically an execute
Boredom- Cast a mystcal web of boredom over the battlefield, dragging fights out and nullifying any chance of either player dying untill you combo an expensive ultimate that will hopefully(tm) work.
True story1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fossilize lava whip lava whip lava whip. Fossilize lava whip lava whip lava whip. Dragon blood.
Talons.
Talons deep breath deep breath deep breath talons dragon blood reflective scales.
I rly dislike Magika DK. How is it that you are not competitive?1 -
Therium104 wrote: »The DK has no class specific high burst dps abilities. Flamelash hits like a wet noodle..
What......
1 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've written is that youre quite an unpleasant and accusatory person. Unless you change your tone and talk builds and about your experiences rather than accusing other people of being bad when you know nothing about them then you should probably not take part in any discussion.
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Edited by Ariades_swe on May 5, 2016 6:43PM0 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭mDK does not suck 1v1. You have to build to be well rounded. Regen, resist etc. if you go all spell damage...yeh you will be rekt. Period. With this new update I highly encourage you to try 5 heavy due to the new passives. That's what my new build will be running in DB for pvp. On PTS I have been very successful. Shout out to Alcast and Ryanna for telling people to try it. Bc I did and it's great.1 -
devilsTear✭✭✭Could someone help me with a dueling build? Don't really know how to build one? V16 dunmer dk and I play on ps4.Edited by devilsTear on May 5, 2016 4:17PM0
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Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magicka Dk definitely doesn't suck, however, majority of fights end up being a sustain war. An execute would really help them out. The other thing is that yes burning embers is an amazing heal, but what happens if you aren't in range to hit someone with it? Then you have to use either a resto staff skill or dragona blood. The former is better than the latter. I would think that improving dragons blood would give more options to magicka Dk's and allow them to effectively run double sword and shield or dual wield and sword/shield or even destro staff with sword/shield.1 -
RabNebula✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've written is that youre quite an unpleasant and accusatory person. Unless you change your tone and talk builds and about your experiences rather than accusing other people of being bad when you know nothing about them then you should probably not take part in any discussion.
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.Edited by RabNebula on May 6, 2016 1:45AM0 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've written is that youre quite an unpleasant and accusatory person. Unless you change your tone and talk builds and about your experiences rather than accusing other people of being bad when you know nothing about them then you should probably not take part in any discussion.
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when someone dares to question your skill lvl you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I would even say its normal for these kind of sensitive persons to rebutt in insults that transcends the actual matters in hand, in this case a discussion of a game and the skills required to play it, and targets the subjects real life persona.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion to say that your huge dissapointments in mdks 1v1 capabilities might be because you are not that great at playing your mdk in 1v1 scenarios
I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are good player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks are at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself you've come to the conclusion that your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. There is a great chance that whenever another mdk is succesfull in a scenario were you think they struggle the reason would be that the opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Edited by Ariades_swe on May 6, 2016 5:26PM0 -
RabNebula✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've written is that youre quite an unpleasant and accusatory person. Unless you change your tone and talk builds and about your experiences rather than accusing other people of being bad when you know nothing about them then you should probably not take part in any discussion.
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when skill lvl gets questioned you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion but I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are a even better player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. Whenever another mdk is succesfull in a 1v1 the main reason would be that their opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Do you think 1-4 above also applies to other people that are succesfull with the magdk in a 1v1 setting?
Wow you have totally missed the point. I wasnt referring to the skill thing though that is something else which should not even be raised in discussion. What I was referring to was the "whiney" remark. Again you've just proved you arent worth a grain of dirt when it comes to discussing in a more "gentile manner" beause you havent taken that footing from the start.
Now the points you think Im making. I said mdks are some of the strongest bombers because of talons, draw essence AND PROX DET.
I dont think mDKs are bottom tier. I know they are. Its widely agreed by many due to their lack of ranged damage, real burst options and no execute while all other classes have low cost options in this area. They also have no real escape or mobility options like the other classes do. Now when you compare a stam dk to an mdk you will see that sdks have lower cost moves with easier options to get higher damage and crit in single target situations. These are the points I was making when you started puking out nonsense about player skill and questioning my perfectly legitimate and well reasoned view by making accusations about my personality. You dont know me. Dont presume to because you read a forum post in some stupid voice in your head because your judgment is highly inaccurate.
It also seems that youre assuming because I am criticising the mdk that its because I lose my 1v1s. I win fights plenty. I can just tell that compared to all other builds the mdk takes far more work than any other and that is something which cannot be denied.
Sorcs have high range dps, mines and shield stacks. That makes them very low risk with high reward.
NBs have some of the highest damage burst options and can just pop invisible whenever they like, which though it has counters means you have to bring out something like eruption purely for nightblades so its a whole skill just for something very situational. So again they can easily be considered low risk, high reward.
Stam DKs are a little higher risk but have major reward with some of the best burst damage in game. Shuffle also greatly reduces their risk when going in as random dodge chance is one of the stupidest and laziest things a game developer can design. Sdk's low cost ulti options are far better than mdks. Rush, Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Execute. Easy to pull off and the fight is done. Mdks do not have that kind of burst and execute as their only real ulti options cost double what sdks have and they do not have an execute at all yet mdks have to go in close to get anything significant for them off. So with shuffle and the low cost high damage burst you could easily say that sdks are again low risk high reward.
Mdks are high risk low reward. They take more work all over. Their best moves come when fighting more than 1 person and at that point theres no options but to get in the mix and fight to survive. There is no get away option for a dk. They just have to try and sustain which becomes a lot of work to put in.
Player skill shouldnt even come into this conversation. It should always be from the perspective of equal skill to equal skill. In that scenario it is rare for mdks to come out on top in 1v1s. In crowded scenarios they hold up well when it comes to blasting a few at once and are 2nd to nightblades when it comes to zerg bombing. Prox det, wait 6 seconds, Petrify (Shatter morph), chain, draw essence, talon then whip to make double sure 1 drops. VD pops and boom. Its not as simple as the NB blasts but its still very strong. Other than that the mdk suffers tremendously and takes a lot of work in most situations.
These are facts and these are things you may not agree with but 98% of people will. One more comment about skill or personality or anything along those lines then I'll consider your response null and void.
2 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when skill lvl gets questioned you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion but I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are a even better player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. Whenever another mdk is succesfull in a 1v1 the main reason would be that their opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Do you think 1-4 above also applies to other people that are succesfull with the magdk in a 1v1 setting?
Wow you have totally missed the point. I wasnt referring to the skill thing though that is something else which should not even be raised in discussion. What I was referring to was the "whiney" remark. Again you've just proved you arent worth a grain of dirt when it comes to discussing in a more "gentile manner" beause you havent taken that footing from the start.
Now the points you think Im making. I said mdks are some of the strongest bombers because of talons, draw essence AND PROX DET.
I dont think mDKs are bottom tier. I know they are. Its widely agreed by many due to their lack of ranged damage, real burst options and no execute while all other classes have low cost options in this area. They also have no real escape or mobility options like the other classes do. Now when you compare a stam dk to an mdk you will see that sdks have lower cost moves with easier options to get higher damage and crit in single target situations. These are the points I was making when you started puking out nonsense about player skill and questioning my perfectly legitimate and well reasoned view by making accusations about my personality. You dont know me. Dont presume to because you read a forum post in some stupid voice in your head because your judgment is highly inaccurate.
It also seems that youre assuming because I am criticising the mdk that its because I lose my 1v1s. I win fights plenty. I can just tell that compared to all other builds the mdk takes far more work than any other and that is something which cannot be denied.
Sorcs have high range dps, mines and shield stacks. That makes them very low risk with high reward.
NBs have some of the highest damage burst options and can just pop invisible whenever they like, which though it has counters means you have to bring out something like eruption purely for nightblades so its a whole skill just for something very situational. So again they can easily be considered low risk, high reward.
Stam DKs are a little higher risk but have major reward with some of the best burst damage in game. Shuffle also greatly reduces their risk when going in as random dodge chance is one of the stupidest and laziest things a game developer can design. Sdk's low cost ulti options are far better than mdks. Rush, Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Execute. Easy to pull off and the fight is done. Mdks do not have that kind of burst and execute as their only real ulti options cost double what sdks have and they do not have an execute at all yet mdks have to go in close to get anything significant for them off. So with shuffle and the low cost high damage burst you could easily say that sdks are again low risk high reward.
Mdks are high risk low reward. They take more work all over. Their best moves come when fighting more than 1 person and at that point theres no options but to get in the mix and fight to survive. There is no get away option for a dk. They just have to try and sustain which becomes a lot of work to put in.
Player skill shouldnt even come into this conversation. It should always be from the perspective of equal skill to equal skill. In that scenario it is rare for mdks to come out on top in 1v1s. In crowded scenarios they hold up well when it comes to blasting a few at once and are 2nd to nightblades when it comes to zerg bombing. Prox det, wait 6 seconds, Petrify (Shatter morph), chain, draw essence, talon then whip to make double sure 1 drops. VD pops and boom. Its not as simple as the NB blasts but its still very strong. Other than that the mdk suffers tremendously and takes a lot of work in most situations.
These are facts and these are things you may not agree with but 98% of people will. One more comment about skill or personality or anything along those lines then I'll consider your response null and void.Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when skill lvl gets questioned you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion but I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are a even better player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. Whenever another mdk is succesfull in a 1v1 the main reason would be that their opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Do you think 1-4 above also applies to other people that are succesfull with the magdk in a 1v1 setting?
Wow you have totally missed the point. I wasnt referring to the skill thing though that is something else which should not even be raised in discussion. What I was referring to was the "whiney" remark. Again you've just proved you arent worth a grain of dirt when it comes to discussing in a more "gentile manner" beause you havent taken that footing from the start.
Now the points you think Im making. I said mdks are some of the strongest bombers because of talons, draw essence AND PROX DET.
I dont think mDKs are bottom tier. I know they are. Its widely agreed by many due to their lack of ranged damage, real burst options and no execute while all other classes have low cost options in this area. They also have no real escape or mobility options like the other classes do. Now when you compare a stam dk to an mdk you will see that sdks have lower cost moves with easier options to get higher damage and crit in single target situations. These are the points I was making when you started puking out nonsense about player skill and questioning my perfectly legitimate and well reasoned view by making accusations about my personality. You dont know me. Dont presume to because you read a forum post in some stupid voice in your head because your judgment is highly inaccurate.
It also seems that youre assuming because I am criticising the mdk that its because I lose my 1v1s. I win fights plenty. I can just tell that compared to all other builds the mdk takes far more work than any other and that is something which cannot be denied.
Sorcs have high range dps, mines and shield stacks. That makes them very low risk with high reward.
NBs have some of the highest damage burst options and can just pop invisible whenever they like, which though it has counters means you have to bring out something like eruption purely for nightblades so its a whole skill just for something very situational. So again they can easily be considered low risk, high reward.
Stam DKs are a little higher risk but have major reward with some of the best burst damage in game. Shuffle also greatly reduces their risk when going in as random dodge chance is one of the stupidest and laziest things a game developer can design. Sdk's low cost ulti options are far better than mdks. Rush, Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Execute. Easy to pull off and the fight is done. Mdks do not have that kind of burst and execute as their only real ulti options cost double what sdks have and they do not have an execute at all yet mdks have to go in close to get anything significant for them off. So with shuffle and the low cost high damage burst you could easily say that sdks are again low risk high reward.
Mdks are high risk low reward. They take more work all over. Their best moves come when fighting more than 1 person and at that point theres no options but to get in the mix and fight to survive. There is no get away option for a dk. They just have to try and sustain which becomes a lot of work to put in.
Player skill shouldnt even come into this conversation. It should always be from the perspective of equal skill to equal skill. In that scenario it is rare for mdks to come out on top in 1v1s. In crowded scenarios they hold up well when it comes to blasting a few at once and are 2nd to nightblades when it comes to zerg bombing. Prox det, wait 6 seconds, Petrify (Shatter morph), chain, draw essence, talon then whip to make double sure 1 drops. VD pops and boom. Its not as simple as the NB blasts but its still very strong. Other than that the mdk suffers tremendously and takes a lot of work in most situations.
These are facts and these are things you may not agree with but 98% of people will. One more comment about skill or personality or anything along those lines then I'll consider your response null and void.Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when skill lvl gets questioned you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion but I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are a even better player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. Whenever another mdk is succesfull in a 1v1 the main reason would be that their opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Do you think 1-4 above also applies to other people that are succesfull with the magdk in a 1v1 setting?
Wow you have totally missed the point. I wasnt referring to the skill thing though that is something else which should not even be raised in discussion. What I was referring to was the "whiney" remark. Again you've just proved you arent worth a grain of dirt when it comes to discussing in a more "gentile manner" beause you havent taken that footing from the start.
Now the points you think Im making. I said mdks are some of the strongest bombers because of talons, draw essence AND PROX DET.
I dont think mDKs are bottom tier. I know they are. Its widely agreed by many due to their lack of ranged damage, real burst options and no execute while all other classes have low cost options in this area. They also have no real escape or mobility options like the other classes do. Now when you compare a stam dk to an mdk you will see that sdks have lower cost moves with easier options to get higher damage and crit in single target situations. These are the points I was making when you started puking out nonsense about player skill and questioning my perfectly legitimate and well reasoned view by making accusations about my personality. You dont know me. Dont presume to because you read a forum post in some stupid voice in your head because your judgment is highly inaccurate.
It also seems that youre assuming because I am criticising the mdk that its because I lose my 1v1s. I win fights plenty. I can just tell that compared to all other builds the mdk takes far more work than any other and that is something which cannot be denied.
Sorcs have high range dps, mines and shield stacks. That makes them very low risk with high reward.
NBs have some of the highest damage burst options and can just pop invisible whenever they like, which though it has counters means you have to bring out something like eruption purely for nightblades so its a whole skill just for something very situational. So again they can easily be considered low risk, high reward.
Stam DKs are a little higher risk but have major reward with some of the best burst damage in game. Shuffle also greatly reduces their risk when going in as random dodge chance is one of the stupidest and laziest things a game developer can design. Sdk's low cost ulti options are far better than mdks. Rush, Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Execute. Easy to pull off and the fight is done. Mdks do not have that kind of burst and execute as their only real ulti options cost double what sdks have and they do not have an execute at all yet mdks have to go in close to get anything significant for them off. So with shuffle and the low cost high damage burst you could easily say that sdks are again low risk high reward.
Mdks are high risk low reward. They take more work all over. Their best moves come when fighting more than 1 person and at that point theres no options but to get in the mix and fight to survive. There is no get away option for a dk. They just have to try and sustain which becomes a lot of work to put in.
Player skill shouldnt even come into this conversation. It should always be from the perspective of equal skill to equal skill. In that scenario it is rare for mdks to come out on top in 1v1s. In crowded scenarios they hold up well when it comes to blasting a few at once and are 2nd to nightblades when it comes to zerg bombing. Prox det, wait 6 seconds, Petrify (Shatter morph), chain, draw essence, talon then whip to make double sure 1 drops. VD pops and boom. Its not as simple as the NB blasts but its still very strong. Other than that the mdk suffers tremendously and takes a lot of work in most situations.
These are facts and these are things you may not agree with but 98% of people will. One more comment about skill or personality or anything along those lines then I'll consider your responce void and null
Well I dont think most people consider mdk the worst 1v1 class .
In fact lots of people replying in this thread think mdks fine 1v1 and bad 1vX. I would also recommend you to check out the other mdk thread.
Op of that thread has some very sound points about were mdks excel and suffer.
For your reference what I meant by ad hominem arguments from your part was the point were you decided to call me a particulary nasty and accusatory person before I even made the whiney comment.
Have a nice day:).Edited by Ariades_swe on May 6, 2016 2:50PM0 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when skill lvl gets questioned you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion but I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are a even better player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. Whenever another mdk is succesfull in a 1v1 the main reason would be that their opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Do you think 1-4 above also applies to other people that are succesfull with the magdk in a 1v1 setting?
Wow you have totally missed the point. I wasnt referring to the skill thing though that is something else which should not even be raised in discussion. What I was referring to was the "whiney" remark. Again you've just proved you arent worth a grain of dirt when it comes to discussing in a more "gentile manner" beause you havent taken that footing from the start.
Now the points you think Im making. I said mdks are some of the strongest bombers because of talons, draw essence AND PROX DET.
I dont think mDKs are bottom tier. I know they are. Its widely agreed by many due to their lack of ranged damage, real burst options and no execute while all other classes have low cost options in this area. They also have no real escape or mobility options like the other classes do. Now when you compare a stam dk to an mdk you will see that sdks have lower cost moves with easier options to get higher damage and crit in single target situations. These are the points I was making when you started puking out nonsense about player skill and questioning my perfectly legitimate and well reasoned view by making accusations about my personality. You dont know me. Dont presume to because you read a forum post in some stupid voice in your head because your judgment is highly inaccurate.
It also seems that youre assuming because I am criticising the mdk that its because I lose my 1v1s. I win fights plenty. I can just tell that compared to all other builds the mdk takes far more work than any other and that is something which cannot be denied.
Sorcs have high range dps, mines and shield stacks. That makes them very low risk with high reward.
NBs have some of the highest damage burst options and can just pop invisible whenever they like, which though it has counters means you have to bring out something like eruption purely for nightblades so its a whole skill just for something very situational. So again they can easily be considered low risk, high reward.
Stam DKs are a little higher risk but have major reward with some of the best burst damage in game. Shuffle also greatly reduces their risk when going in as random dodge chance is one of the stupidest and laziest things a game developer can design. Sdk's low cost ulti options are far better than mdks. Rush, Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Execute. Easy to pull off and the fight is done. Mdks do not have that kind of burst and execute as their only real ulti options cost double what sdks have and they do not have an execute at all yet mdks have to go in close to get anything significant for them off. So with shuffle and the low cost high damage burst you could easily say that sdks are again low risk high reward.
Mdks are high risk low reward. They take more work all over. Their best moves come when fighting more than 1 person and at that point theres no options but to get in the mix and fight to survive. There is no get away option for a dk. They just have to try and sustain which becomes a lot of work to put in.
Player skill shouldnt even come into this conversation. It should always be from the perspective of equal skill to equal skill. In that scenario it is rare for mdks to come out on top in 1v1s. In crowded scenarios they hold up well when it comes to blasting a few at once and are 2nd to nightblades when it comes to zerg bombing. Prox det, wait 6 seconds, Petrify (Shatter morph), chain, draw essence, talon then whip to make double sure 1 drops. VD pops and boom. Its not as simple as the NB blasts but its still very strong. Other than that the mdk suffers tremendously and takes a lot of work in most situations.
These are facts and these are things you may not agree with but 98% of people will. One more comment about skill or personality or anything along those lines then I'll consider your response null and void.Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when skill lvl gets questioned you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion but I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are a even better player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. Whenever another mdk is succesfull in a 1v1 the main reason would be that their opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Do you think 1-4 above also applies to other people that are succesfull with the magdk in a 1v1 setting?
Wow you have totally missed the point. I wasnt referring to the skill thing though that is something else which should not even be raised in discussion. What I was referring to was the "whiney" remark. Again you've just proved you arent worth a grain of dirt when it comes to discussing in a more "gentile manner" beause you havent taken that footing from the start.
Now the points you think Im making. I said mdks are some of the strongest bombers because of talons, draw essence AND PROX DET.
I dont think mDKs are bottom tier. I know they are. Its widely agreed by many due to their lack of ranged damage, real burst options and no execute while all other classes have low cost options in this area. They also have no real escape or mobility options like the other classes do. Now when you compare a stam dk to an mdk you will see that sdks have lower cost moves with easier options to get higher damage and crit in single target situations. These are the points I was making when you started puking out nonsense about player skill and questioning my perfectly legitimate and well reasoned view by making accusations about my personality. You dont know me. Dont presume to because you read a forum post in some stupid voice in your head because your judgment is highly inaccurate.
It also seems that youre assuming because I am criticising the mdk that its because I lose my 1v1s. I win fights plenty. I can just tell that compared to all other builds the mdk takes far more work than any other and that is something which cannot be denied.
Sorcs have high range dps, mines and shield stacks. That makes them very low risk with high reward.
NBs have some of the highest damage burst options and can just pop invisible whenever they like, which though it has counters means you have to bring out something like eruption purely for nightblades so its a whole skill just for something very situational. So again they can easily be considered low risk, high reward.
Stam DKs are a little higher risk but have major reward with some of the best burst damage in game. Shuffle also greatly reduces their risk when going in as random dodge chance is one of the stupidest and laziest things a game developer can design. Sdk's low cost ulti options are far better than mdks. Rush, Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Execute. Easy to pull off and the fight is done. Mdks do not have that kind of burst and execute as their only real ulti options cost double what sdks have and they do not have an execute at all yet mdks have to go in close to get anything significant for them off. So with shuffle and the low cost high damage burst you could easily say that sdks are again low risk high reward.
Mdks are high risk low reward. They take more work all over. Their best moves come when fighting more than 1 person and at that point theres no options but to get in the mix and fight to survive. There is no get away option for a dk. They just have to try and sustain which becomes a lot of work to put in.
Player skill shouldnt even come into this conversation. It should always be from the perspective of equal skill to equal skill. In that scenario it is rare for mdks to come out on top in 1v1s. In crowded scenarios they hold up well when it comes to blasting a few at once and are 2nd to nightblades when it comes to zerg bombing. Prox det, wait 6 seconds, Petrify (Shatter morph), chain, draw essence, talon then whip to make double sure 1 drops. VD pops and boom. Its not as simple as the NB blasts but its still very strong. Other than that the mdk suffers tremendously and takes a lot of work in most situations.
These are facts and these are things you may not agree with but 98% of people will. One more comment about skill or personality or anything along those lines then I'll consider your response null and void.Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when skill lvl gets questioned you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion but I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are a even better player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. Whenever another mdk is succesfull in a 1v1 the main reason would be that their opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Do you think 1-4 above also applies to other people that are succesfull with the magdk in a 1v1 setting?
Wow you have totally missed the point. I wasnt referring to the skill thing though that is something else which should not even be raised in discussion. What I was referring to was the "whiney" remark. Again you've just proved you arent worth a grain of dirt when it comes to discussing in a more "gentile manner" beause you havent taken that footing from the start.
Now the points you think Im making. I said mdks are some of the strongest bombers because of talons, draw essence AND PROX DET.
I dont think mDKs are bottom tier. I know they are. Its widely agreed by many due to their lack of ranged damage, real burst options and no execute while all other classes have low cost options in this area. They also have no real escape or mobility options like the other classes do. Now when you compare a stam dk to an mdk you will see that sdks have lower cost moves with easier options to get higher damage and crit in single target situations. These are the points I was making when you started puking out nonsense about player skill and questioning my perfectly legitimate and well reasoned view by making accusations about my personality. You dont know me. Dont presume to because you read a forum post in some stupid voice in your head because your judgment is highly inaccurate.
It also seems that youre assuming because I am criticising the mdk that its because I lose my 1v1s. I win fights plenty. I can just tell that compared to all other builds the mdk takes far more work than any other and that is something which cannot be denied.
Sorcs have high range dps, mines and shield stacks. That makes them very low risk with high reward.
NBs have some of the highest damage burst options and can just pop invisible whenever they like, which though it has counters means you have to bring out something like eruption purely for nightblades so its a whole skill just for something very situational. So again they can easily be considered low risk, high reward.
Stam DKs are a little higher risk but have major reward with some of the best burst damage in game. Shuffle also greatly reduces their risk when going in as random dodge chance is one of the stupidest and laziest things a game developer can design. Sdk's low cost ulti options are far better than mdks. Rush, Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Execute. Easy to pull off and the fight is done. Mdks do not have that kind of burst and execute as their only real ulti options cost double what sdks have and they do not have an execute at all yet mdks have to go in close to get anything significant for them off. So with shuffle and the low cost high damage burst you could easily say that sdks are again low risk high reward.
Mdks are high risk low reward. They take more work all over. Their best moves come when fighting more than 1 person and at that point theres no options but to get in the mix and fight to survive. There is no get away option for a dk. They just have to try and sustain which becomes a lot of work to put in.
Player skill shouldnt even come into this conversation. It should always be from the perspective of equal skill to equal skill. In that scenario it is rare for mdks to come out on top in 1v1s. In crowded scenarios they hold up well when it comes to blasting a few at once and are 2nd to nightblades when it comes to zerg bombing. Prox det, wait 6 seconds, Petrify (Shatter morph), chain, draw essence, talon then whip to make double sure 1 drops. VD pops and boom. Its not as simple as the NB blasts but its still very strong. Other than that the mdk suffers tremendously and takes a lot of work in most situations.
These are facts and these are things you may not agree with but 98% of people will. One more comment about skill or personality or anything along those lines then I'll consider your responce void and null0 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »In duels magicka dk one of the strongest atm.
Skilled players dont get bursted down 1v1 or small scale. In 1vx and zerg *** they suck.
Thats completely the opposite of what its like to be an mdk. Mdks are incredibly weak. If they go heavy for phys resistance they have one of the weakest dps in the game. Most of their dps requires you use light but volatile armour and igneous shilds dont give anywhere near enough protetction for the combat options an mdk has which is all about getting right in the face.
Mdk's dont have strong damage over range like sorcs and yet sorcs get to stand in the middle of a minefield, shields stacked and blasting off high dps from range. Sorcs just should not have those shields because played correctly people shouldnt be able to get in on them in the 1st place. That distance and the mines should act as their shields. Dks have to be in the face yet igneous shields will only give a shield of around 1.5k even in the strongest of builds. So 1 light attack pretty much knocks them off and that makes them overly expensive for what they are.
If you are an mdk you will also get destroyed in duels 9 times out of 10 by stam builds. Judging by the next update the mdk buffs they brought in with TG are just going to be totally killed off. There will be no point playing an mdk.
Weapon damage is easier to get up than spell damage. Most of the useful morphs for dk abilities will basically just have stronger stam versions. Poison knights wont just be an option, they will be the only option. Stam is getting major buffs, dawnbreaker is apparently turning into all physicial damage meaning mdks will no longer have any low cost ultis at their disposal and even now a strong mdk will get blasted down by any equally capable stam build player.
What makes mdks good at the moment is they can work well with proxy det and draw essence for well timed burst kills within larger crowds. As proxy det is getting nerfed to the point the only builds with a real chance of using it are mnbs then mdks will suffer majorly in the next update just after getting buffed.
Mdks are dead when darkbrotherhood drops.
Mdk's use meteor usually over dawnbreaker anyway.
Mdk's have always been very strong in 1v1, they still are on the pts theres no reason to assume they they'll ever stop being strong.
I understand your trying to point out the things wrong with a mag dk, the low dps, the low mobility etc.. but could you not exaggerate or blatantly lie? The false information isn't good to spread around.
My mag dk uses LA, with light armour he can easily survive getting beaten on by 3-4 people for 2 mins ~ I can put on some ok dmg with talons dots, inhale, proxy... Until i get my ult, then either use bats if i'm low resources to give my stam a break or i'll time a meteor with a proxy/inhale to try and take someone out.
I agree there dmg is pretty bad and they have no ranged dmg available.
With the changes to vamp which most dk's are, dk's will get mobility using mist form, it's not the best mobility but it's something. The fact vamps will take lower dmg from dawnbreaker is welcome as well. The changes to heavy mean dk's may be able to sustain with heavy instead of needing to go light.
Didn't lie at any point. And if you're getting on by 3-4 people for 2 mins then youre not getting beaten on. Youre getting tickled by some bad play or low level stam builds. Skill to skill comparison, if my sdk fought my mdk then I would crush my mdk even though I main mdk. I know that because I know equally skilled stam builds on other alliances that I've fought against.
Some of the best duelers on eu play mdk...
Watched Syphers stream the past few days and he won around 50 duels and lost 2 or 3.
Some of the guys he beat are considered really good so dont give me that crap about only meeting bad players.
Just because your mdk sucks 1v1 doesnt mean the class does...
You know, maybe theres a chance you are not that great of a player? Ever thought of that?
But yeah continue to blame everything but yourself and you will never improve.
Mdks might have alot of problems but 1v1 aint one of them.
You know. I think maybe you can't really judge how I am as a player. My mdk absolutely doesnt suck and I give any of the best DC or AD have to offer a good fight any day.
I can say for certain that a strong stam build will not take 2 mins to beat up on any strong mdks. Damage to damage a stam build is far far stronger in single target situations than mdks are. Mdks in the next patch only have expensive ultis to choose from. They are the only class with no execute at all. Their main hard hitting damage ability being the whip hits for far less than the bread and butter damage of the other classes.
An mdk with any significant damage to actually kill something has to get in close. That is a fact. Yet if you get in close with an mdk then you are putting yourself in the range of some high weapon damage attacks while any dots you put down can easily be purged and anything that isnt a dot barely hits hard compared to other classes.
My views aren't based on me losing. They are based on me being good enough to win fights yet recognise that certain builds have far higher single target burst damage than anything the DK can muster.
One decision I've come to from what you've written is that youre quite an unpleasant and accusatory person. Unless you change your tone and talk builds and about your experiences rather than accusing other people of being bad when you know nothing about them then you should probably not take part in any discussion.
I didnt accuse you of anything it was a serious question.
The main reason i might have come off as unpleasant is because like the poster before said you exaggarate way to much and you come off as a rather whiny and narrowminded person.
If you said mdk was bad 1vX sure I would agree.
1v1 many people find them good.
I could record clips for you were Mdks on eu pc duel and win most of the time.
I could even show you some builds thats great for 1v1.
Theres no point though since you seem dead set in that mdks suck 1v1.
Im done with you now so lets agree to disagree.
Are you sure you dont just read everything in a moany and whiney voice? Nothing I said was whining. It was all critical and constructive observation of the class. Against crowds the mdk has a great time since draw essence got its buff, combined with talons and proxy det if youre any good at timing then you can pull off some great bombs.
We clearly disagree but for some reason when someone disagrees with you then you decide to start pulling out judgment on their character. Just dont bother writing anything if its going to be some form of character assassination attempt rather than talking about the real subject at hand.
DK's have no real burst, no execute. 1v1 they have a self heal which takes time to burn and has barely any range on it. Its just a sustain battle basically. Boring as anything. If youre going for damage you have to wear light armour to some degree which lowers your physical resistance a lot. The problem there is that DKs are not like sorcs. They dont have high range dps. Their options are to get in the face of the opponent which puts you in the optimal position that a stam build will want you in. But the trouble in this position for mdks is the lack of decent burst and the lack of any execute. Those things cannot be denied. Mdks compared to any other class are weak and thats why they're one of the rarer builds you'll find.
I dont know how many completely equal duels you've been in or seen but I can tell you for certain. Me on a stam build v me on a mag build, stam wins 9 times out of 10. Thats the match up in 1v1.
If you get so worked up and think its a judgement of your character, or a character assassination when skill lvl gets questioned you shouldnt resort to ad hominem attacks yourself.
Fair enough though i can see how some individuals might take it as a deep personal insult when their gaming skills gets questioned.
I do think it was relevant for the discussion but I apologise if I hurt your feelings.
I just want you to clarify a few points for me then we can discuss it in a more gentile manner
1. You think 1vX mdks are great because of talons and draw essence...
2. You think your mdk doesnt suck in a 1v1 versus other good players because you are a even better player with a deep understanding of your class.
3. You think in general, skill lvls aside that mdks at the bottom tier in 1v1
4. One of the reasons you think the above is because in a hypothetical duel with yourself your stam classes would beat your mdk 9 out of 10 times.
5. Whenever another mdk is succesfull in a 1v1 the main reason would be that their opposition were not that great.
Am I correct with this?
Do you think 1-4 above also applies to other people that are succesfull with the magdk in a 1v1 setting?
Wow you have totally missed the point. I wasnt referring to the skill thing though that is something else which should not even be raised in discussion. What I was referring to was the "whiney" remark. Again you've just proved you arent worth a grain of dirt when it comes to discussing in a more "gentile manner" beause you havent taken that footing from the start.
Now the points you think Im making. I said mdks are some of the strongest bombers because of talons, draw essence AND PROX DET.
I dont think mDKs are bottom tier. I know they are. Its widely agreed by many due to their lack of ranged damage, real burst options and no execute while all other classes have low cost options in this area. They also have no real escape or mobility options like the other classes do. Now when you compare a stam dk to an mdk you will see that sdks have lower cost moves with easier options to get higher damage and crit in single target situations. These are the points I was making when you started puking out nonsense about player skill and questioning my perfectly legitimate and well reasoned view by making accusations about my personality. You dont know me. Dont presume to because you read a forum post in some stupid voice in your head because your judgment is highly inaccurate.
It also seems that youre assuming because I am criticising the mdk that its because I lose my 1v1s. I win fights plenty. I can just tell that compared to all other builds the mdk takes far more work than any other and that is something which cannot be denied.
Sorcs have high range dps, mines and shield stacks. That makes them very low risk with high reward.
NBs have some of the highest damage burst options and can just pop invisible whenever they like, which though it has counters means you have to bring out something like eruption purely for nightblades so its a whole skill just for something very situational. So again they can easily be considered low risk, high reward.
Stam DKs are a little higher risk but have major reward with some of the best burst damage in game. Shuffle also greatly reduces their risk when going in as random dodge chance is one of the stupidest and laziest things a game developer can design. Sdk's low cost ulti options are far better than mdks. Rush, Wrecking Blow, Take Flight, Execute. Easy to pull off and the fight is done. Mdks do not have that kind of burst and execute as their only real ulti options cost double what sdks have and they do not have an execute at all yet mdks have to go in close to get anything significant for them off. So with shuffle and the low cost high damage burst you could easily say that sdks are again low risk high reward.
Mdks are high risk low reward. They take more work all over. Their best moves come when fighting more than 1 person and at that point theres no options but to get in the mix and fight to survive. There is no get away option for a dk. They just have to try and sustain which becomes a lot of work to put in.
Player skill shouldnt even come into this conversation. It should always be from the perspective of equal skill to equal skill. In that scenario it is rare for mdks to come out on top in 1v1s. In crowded scenarios they hold up well when it comes to blasting a few at once and are 2nd to nightblades when it comes to zerg bombing. Prox det, wait 6 seconds, Petrify (Shatter morph), chain, draw essence, talon then whip to make double sure 1 drops. VD pops and boom. Its not as simple as the NB blasts but its still very strong. Other than that the mdk suffers tremendously and takes a lot of work in most situations.
These are facts and these are things you may not agree with but 98% of people will. One more comment about skill or personality or anything along those lines then I'll consider your response null and void.
As soon as I mentioned that you might lack the skill to 1v1 with your mdk you started your personal attacks, stating I am a particular nasty individual in real life. So dont give me that crap about that it was me calling you whiny that got you oh so hurt since the above happened before.
And Im pretty sure 98 percent of the players dont think magicka DK the worst 1v1 class, so again you excaggarate.
Just look at the replies to this thread.
Most people consider the mdk fine in 1v1
Just because you think they are harder to play in duels doesnt mean everyone has the same point of view.
Stop having an inflated ego.
Mdks lack in open work solo pvp due a lack of escape methods and a reliant purge.
This leads them to be permasnared.
This doesnt have as much effect in a duel.
Its amusing how you think one should never mention player skill in this discussion yet fail to remember thats excactly what you did to another person responding to you, claiming his opponents must have been bad as the reason for his success.
Its obviously ok for you to question other players skill but when someone question yours they're accusative and unpleasant. Quite the hypocrite are we?
Comedy gold
And bringing up player skill in your case is relevant.
Let me explain it really slow for you.
1. You start saying that mdks will lose 9 out of 10 duels agains a stam class.
2. You think they hard to use in a duel setting while many dont.
3. In your first post you never mention that your self proclaimed superior skills let you do good on an Mdk in duels, this comes after I questioned your duelling skills.
4 You cant balance classes based on a person being bad at the game.
See the logic why I brought up that you might be bad at duelling?
Why do you consider duelling with an mdk hard when many dont?
Its probably a moot point for me to reply now since you say you will be done discussing with me as soon as I dare mention the relevance of player skill when talking about class balance.
Would be fun though to see you get all worked up for a third time, hyperbole and write another essay about how hard mdks are to use in duels and how hurt you are because I brought up your individual skill in the equation yet again. I even called you a hypocrite and I will now just for the sake of it to anger you even more, call you whiny.
More whiny than most people that post here.
So keep it coming chief Edited by Ariades_swe on May 8, 2016 1:14AM0