zos - Please start charging a monthly sub...

courtney1191

ESO DOES charge people.

They did away with the monthly sub, but they've more than made up for that with the crown store, ESO plus memberships, and DLC prices.

They're not hurting for extra cash, lol.

Kalfis

Bahahahahahahaha. Hahahahaha! Oh wait, you're serious? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ADarklore

Skullz11c wrote: »

Historically speaking, MMO players have had no issue paying a monthly subscription.

Historically speaking, MMOs were never dominated by casual players before nor were they so readily available on consoles. You seem to be making the large assumption that the MMO players of the past are still the majority of MMO players of today... and while there are still old-school MMO players, they are dwarfed by casual players who most would never subscribe to a game. So it's really tough to see the minority old-school MMO players being able to fully support ZOS through a subscription. ZOS knew this when they decided to go B2P that they'd alienate many old-school MMO players but they also knew today's MMO market revolves around casual players, console players and micro-transactions.

Speely

Would going back to a mandatory sub cause ZOS to rebuild the game with a different engine? No? Then it wouldn't help. They have plenty of money. The core engine cannot handle what the design dictates, and that will never change unless they change the design to operate within the constraints of the engine that runs the game.

Edit: The B2P model they have now is really nice. I sub, but it's nice to have more Crown Store options to spend my 1500 a month on if I want to. Game performance is 0% based on ZOS's income. It's just a game built on an engine not suited to it's vision. Should have been custom from the get-go.

Skullz11c

Speely wrote: »

Would going back to a mandatory sub cause ZOS to rebuild the game with a different engine? No? Then it wouldn't help. They have plenty of money. The core engine cannot handle what the design dictates, and that will never change unless they change the design to operate within the constraints of the engine that runs the game.

Edit: The B2P model they have now is really nice. I sub, but it's nice to have more Crown Store options to spend my 1500 a month on if I want to. Game performance is 0% based on ZOS's income. It's just a game built on an engine not suited to it's vision. Should have been custom from the get-go.

People would leave, yeah, but the majority would stay. Casual or not, ESO would not die if it charged a monthly fee. ESO will die if the performance continues to get incrementally worse.

JimT722

I was happy to pay a monthly subscription on pc pre tu and still pay for eso plus. I think b2p is likely the better option and if they keep releasing great content I will keep subscribing. I play on console now and except occasionally crashing, performance is good. Since it was sold as a b2p game since tu and console launch that will never change. No point in discussing it really.

Nerouyn

courtney1191 wrote: »

They're not hurting for extra cash, lol.

Yeah this company is unlikely ever to be hurting for cash. Being part of the same company that makes crazy amounts of money from its single-player games means they'll never be broke.

IMO I'm not sure it's worth paying a subscription for yet. I am at the moment just cos that's what I'm accustomed to doing but I'll probably cancel it soon'ish and wait to see if they ever deliver stuff like spellcrafting and crafting bags.

I think B2P is the right model because that's the model which has worked so incredibly well for them with their single-player games and what's most likely to appeal to them.

Kippesnikke

Skullz11c wrote: »

Game is great, performance is horrendous. This is game sits among the top of the list of broken games I have played. There is no excuse. MMOs have been around for decades and the vast majority perform without flaw. You need to stop releasing DLCs that further break things and focus on getting the BASE game right.

Contrary to the inflammatory posts this is sure to generate, the vast majority of you client base will pay a nominal subscription - 5, 10, even 20 dollars a month. I know I would if it meant the game actually performed the way it was intended and the way it used to.

Take away the game destroying lag and constant FPS spikes. Molag in the Imperial City was broke for almost two months on console. How does this happen? He is the apex boss in the sewers, but was broke for so long. It happens because there is a lack of caring, know how, or manpower within ZOS.

Charging players is a win win for everyone..

*steps off the soapbox*

[minor edit for title tag]

we paid the first year. everyone. still lag and bugs everywhere. wont change it.

MarcoPolo

Id pay a monthly fee if it was also free to download and it meant they fixed all the issues but why should we have to swap to a monthly pay to play to get these fixes?

Sa0n

If a monthly subscription fee is what it takes to play a less laggy ESO, then I say do it

Skullz11c

I knew this would be a touchy topic, but to me it's economics 101. People say ZOS has plenty of money, which is kind of supported by the recent million dollar giveaway, but you can't tell me for one second more money couldn't POSSIBLY equate to better performance.

I have played MMOs since the early 90s. Started with Ultima Online, Asherons Call, some final fantasies and WOW to name a few. All had their share of bugs sure, but this game is taking it to a whole new level. Like one of the previous contributors said, they took servers down in FF to fix things properly, ESO would benefit from that.

I got it, it all depends on how the money is used, but the developers stated they needed to charge a monthly few before and nothing has changed. Their revenue would go up exponentially if they had a monthly fee and the extra money could go a long way in making this a better performing game.

Just a theory, but it feels to me, they are expending more time and money trying to push DLCs when the base game is not ready to support them. They need to push DLCs because they need the revenue, but each DLC absolutely shatters the game. I mean TG is the single worst performing DLC of ANY game i have personally ever played. The FPS and choppiness in the new zone is pretty epic; numerous crashes across all platforms, PVP is horrendous, and the list could go on.

All I am saying is, I love the game, and if I had to pay a few to make it better I would HAPPILY do so!

cravnbeer

Yup the game quality has not been there since they started to work on the switch to B2P. I wish they had stuck to the sub model.

kawazu874b16_ESO

Charging players is a win win for everyone..

Yes but no.

I dropped the game after 3 months (played since betas) sub because I've always thought 13€ is too much.
When it came back using the pay2play + microtransactions - pay2win model. I gladly re-installed the game and play it since.
Currently buying 750 crowns each month because 7€/month is nice for me (and my small purse), if the game went back to a 13€/month sub. I would drop it, for sure. And I'm sure many people who play without eso plus would also drop it.

Woenprom

I must admit, this game has the best B2P setup around. Not a single item in the crown store is even close to "pay2win" meta. Thumbsup.

I wont be surprized if ZOS do what the topic tile says. They already banned out pennyless leechers with 10 year old computers (Trollface)

Wifeaggro13

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

" Charging a flat monthly (or subscription) fee means that we will offer players the game we set out to make, and the one that fans want to play. Going with any other model meant that we would have to make sacrifices and changes we weren't willing to make."

- Matt Firor - March 2014

Like not creating quality content , regurgitation of the solo single player experience. And limited emergent game play?

Korah_Eaglecry

I dont know how many of you pro-sub plebs were here in the beginning. But we got a game that wasnt ready for release. And it took them months to get the game up to a state that could be considered release ready. All the time players were paying for a sub.

Theres bugs in the game thats been here since launch. Theres lag and latency issues that have been here since before the B2P transition. So lets stop with the 'a sub would make things right' nonsensical argument. Because it didnt prevent them from releasing the game in a semi broken state (quests preventing players from moving forward). And it didnt prevent them from introducing lag in Cyrodiil that would haunt the game for the next year. The games problems arent B2P related. And plenty of F2P/B2P games have proven that they can release top notch quality content (ESO is included here) under the F2P/B2P business plan.

Youre old, outdated and no longer sustainable sub-only business plan is no longer marketable and successful for new games. It hasnt been since 2009.

Garldeen

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Your old, outdated and no longer sustainable sub-only business plan is no longer marketable and successful for new games. It hasn't been since 2009.

FFXIV seems to be doing ok with a sub, even with a terrible initial launch. They have reliable servers and a good amount of new content - two new dungeons and new PVP mode in the last patch, alone. Provide a decent product and people will pay for it. They are not appealing to the mass market, they are marketing to the people who will be paying them $10 a month for 5 - 10 years

I agree that it is too late to go back to a subscription model and that it perhaps is unfair on people in countries where the exchange rate is not favourable. However, to say that it can never work now is something I disagree with.

On a side note. I also feel the same about online news. I am happy to pay to read The Times website, even though there are plenty of other OK news sites I could read (excluding the Daily Mail of course...not even free makes that site worth reading ) If the quality of the content provided by The Times was to drop then I would seek an alternative. I accept that I am in the minority with regards to paying for online news, but I also believe that you get what you pay for in life.

JamilaRaj

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

So lets stop with the 'a sub would make things right' nonsensical argument.

Subs might not make things right, but cash shop surely makes things wrong.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

And plenty of F2P/B2P games have proven that they can release top notch quality content (ESO is included here) under the F2P/B2P business plan.

They have proven that corruption is viable business model players can be complacent with, because they are for the most part dishonest and too stupid to realize there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

ajwest927

I'm sure there was issue ESO were having during the time the game was charging a monthly fee, but some how if they go back to monthly fee plan they can fix these issues now???

So it's not their developing and programing skills that stopping them from fixing it, it's the money

Thavie

the vast majority of you client base will pay a nominal subscription - 5, 10, even 20 dollars a month

With no DLC for months?.. Hm, I think, I recall something like this... Right! That was ESO year ago!

Snowstrider

No thanks. I and many others simply thinks eso isnt worth the sub and sub forces you to play when you dont want too. I like what we have now with new content still coming out so fast even if it is B2P

acw37162

I sub because I choose to.

Subscription based MMO's not named WOW are an outdated model.

They make plenty of money between those who do sub and crown store purchases to fix the game.

Chori

Pay a monthly sub and risk or invest money in a possible time window that we don't know it can even serve to fix what they dont know how to fix? No thanks.

Not only that would be a horrible bet but also a very bad move because the reason why ESO has so many players as for today, its because of B2P not having to pay a monthly sub for it.

CaptainBeerDude

Cadbury wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Has there ever been any MMO released where they went from sub to b2p and back to sub? Just asking for curiosity's sake, as I've never heard of one unless it was an obscure Asian MMO

Personally eso should have stayed p2p eventually the bugs would get ironed out.

Or they could have followed FF14's move by closing their game, fixing it, and rebooting it with a formal apology. Square Enix made alot of new customers that way.

Well Elder Scrolls doesn't have a Bahamut to magically change the form of the land mass.

No. We have Molag Bal. Say he succeeded in taking over Tamriel, and Akatosh used all his power to force a dragon break to stop him.

They can even reference Alduin as Time's way of "correcting" the timeline

I'm pretty sure this is already a dragon break. How else do you fit the skewed timelines and different descriptions of the hero who saved the world?

nimander99

If I'm being truly honest the game was better when it was box purchase plus monthly sub. I do enjoy the fluff stuff in the crown store, I.E costumes, pets and mount but would much prefer some kind of quest to earn them... shiz, I'd pay $30 dollars a month sub if we could get something like that.

But w/e, the next change we see in monetary play will be when the base game goes F2P when enough DLC's have been made that they can be billed as an 'Expansion'...

JamilaRaj

nimander99 wrote: »

If I'm being truly honest the game was better when it was box purchase plus monthly sub. I do enjoy the fluff stuff in the crown store, I.E costumes, pets and mount but would much prefer some kind of quest to earn them...

Ear-what? But that would require some actual game mechanics!!! *gasps*
Besides, I do not think players are ready for experimental features such as a game, they would not understand it, would not know what to do, they would not have time for it. They know how to shop; if they want something, they pay and get it. That is simple, fast, well-understood principle from the real life. But if they had to play a game, they could run into easy puzzles or feeble monsters, not to speak of the dreaded random elements, which can confuse even those who know how to operate youtube.
Heck, just look at vampirism, some players not only do not know how to get the affliction, but also are too dumb to buy it without being scammed. Luckily it is (I think) in the cash shop now.

TortUred_mAlice

I don't feel like paying £15 to keep the game stable, even if it ran perfectly, there aren't (m)any minigames, a general trading centre/fixed market, armour options or anything at this point to compete with MMORPGS that offer more and charge less, if this payment style went ahead for this amount.

Once you get past the generic follow and fetch quests (I've finished Cadwells Gold and I don't remember a single quest throughout ESO) all you have are group dungeons and RNG gear, I want there to be more than that if I'm to pay anything monthly. There are already B2P games out there that are purely focused on Group dungeons and RNG rewards.

I used to enjoy MMOs that had fun grinding, monsters would drop from a large loot table and can even snag yourself some of their gear that they're wearing, not just 6 coins or maybe a weak hatchet once in a blue moon. Minigames where you could play with others, seasonal events and such.

I don't come to this forum often, and I've seen my fair share of complaints without construction on other forums, but I wouldn't pay a penny more for what I expected to be playable as a base foundation, or to invest and hope for what would be improved in the base game.

Even horse racing is a good start for minigames... I mean, the likes of the Destiny team managed to pull that one off without sending me to my console's homepage every 2 minutes of logging in. But unlike that game, ESO has mining, fishing, log-cutting, I would happily give a small amount now and again depending on what is introduced, based on quality. But at the moment all we're getting are motifs and an expanded area, not a different gamestyle addition.

The number of crashes I've had hasn't dropped since I started playing last year. In-fact it has risen. I read a comment on here a few weeks or month back that said something along the lines of "I think Zenimax have made such a mess of their code that even they're having trouble navigating through it". Nothing's being fixed, only things are being added and are sometimes actually causing more problems. I'm running through veteran dungeons more than 10 ranks above my level simply by sneaking around them to smash an object, to which the AI is completely oblivious, only to get teleported out and finished the quest.

I could go on but it's past 2am and I've sleep to get. So much unused potential in this game to be taken control of but instead, to keep it alive they're just throwing pieces of DLC together along with some crown exp/motif/disguises to make money. It's the equivalent of using potions to stay alive whilst you have no retaliatory offence. I personally think nothing major will come to this game until TESVI is released, then it will become a FunOrb.

Roleplay and some group dungeons are what's keeping this game alive for me, for the moment, but without text-chat it's difficult. Would love to PvP, but the amount of times in one day that you have to restart the game and the time it takes to get back into it...

ProfessorKittyhawk

I for one would support a return to pay to pay. Game had issues then too but nothing like now.

ArchMikem

the vast majority of you client base will pay a nominal subscription - 5, 10, even 20 dollars a month.

$60
+DLC
+Xbox Live
+Subscription?

No.

Skullz11c

TortUred_mAlice wrote: »

I don't feel like paying £15 to keep the game stable, even if it ran perfectly, there aren't (m)any minigames, a general trading centre/fixed market, armour options or anything at this point to compete with MMORPGS that offer more and charge less, if this payment style went ahead for this amount.

Once you get past the generic follow and fetch quests (I've finished Cadwells Gold and I don't remember a single quest throughout ESO) all you have are group dungeons and RNG gear, I want there to be more than that if I'm to pay anything monthly. There are already B2P games out there that are purely focused on Group dungeons and RNG rewards.

I used to enjoy MMOs that had fun grinding, monsters would drop from a large loot table and can even snag yourself some of their gear that they're wearing, not just 6 coins or maybe a weak hatchet once in a blue moon. Minigames where you could play with others, seasonal events and such.

I don't come to this forum often, and I've seen my fair share of complaints without construction on other forums, but I wouldn't pay a penny more for what I expected to be playable as a base foundation, or to invest and hope for what would be improved in the base game.

Even horse racing is a good start for minigames... I mean, the likes of the Destiny team managed to pull that one off without sending me to my console's homepage every 2 minutes of logging in. But unlike that game, ESO has mining, fishing, log-cutting, I would happily give a small amount now and again depending on what is introduced, based on quality. But at the moment all we're getting are motifs and an expanded area, not a different gamestyle addition.

The number of crashes I've had hasn't dropped since I started playing last year. In-fact it has risen. I read a comment on here a few weeks or month back that said something along the lines of "I think Zenimax have made such a mess of their code that even they're having trouble navigating through it". Nothing's being fixed, only things are being added and are sometimes actually causing more problems. I'm running through veteran dungeons more than 10 ranks above my level simply by sneaking around them to smash an object, to which the AI is completely oblivious, only to get teleported out and finished the quest.

I could go on but it's past 2am and I've sleep to get. So much unused potential in this game to be taken control of but instead, to keep it alive they're just throwing pieces of DLC together along with some crown exp/motif/disguises to make money. It's the equivalent of using potions to stay alive whilst you have no retaliatory offence. I personally think nothing major will come to this game until TESVI is released, then it will become a FunOrb.

Roleplay and some group dungeons are what's keeping this game alive for me, for the moment, but without text-chat it's difficult. Would love to PvP, but the amount of times in one day that you have to restart the game and the time it takes to get back into it...

I agree with you 100%. Good feedback!