Post TG Patch Communication from WW2

Zheg

We're not allowed to put developer names in thread titles apparently (because reasons?), so I will refer to Wrobel and Wheeler by my loving acronym, WW2.

It's been almost 3 weeks since the TG patch hit PC. You made massive changes to balance and Cyrodiil, perhaps moreso than any other patch. I have strong opinions regarding your competency, job performance, and the specific changes you introduced in TG, but whether or not I'm correct, where is your communication? What do you think was a success and what do you think was a failure? Of the drunken experiment you tried with balance in this patch, what did not meet expectations and what over exceeded expectations? What are the balance priorities over the next few weeks in incremental patches (I know, try to keep a straight face); what are the balance priorities for DB? Do your opinions on the TG patch seem in line with the (sometimes overwhelmingly in agreement) forum feedback on your most recent work? Of the remaining massive list of bugs, which are likely to be fixed in incremental patches and which need to wait for the massive quarterly patches you're so fond of?

I'll leave this here for you again as well, since it was related to the lack of communication from people that need to be communicating:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/250487/so-many-are-furious-with-the-combat-team-development-whats-the-path-forward

No one is asking you to spend your entire day replying to posts, or any for that matter, but you should be doing a bare minimum of communication (even if it's through Gina) on your own end. The last post from either Wrobel or Wheeler was a post by Wheeler exactly 2 weeks ago on AP. Almost every Z tag on threads is from moderators like Molly telling people to be courteous in their disappointment and disapproval. I may only have black and white tv in my templar house, but I've been monitoring and ww2 hasn't said jack about where they think the game is at now that their balance experiments have had time to play out.

GRxKnight

I can understand them not replying here since it has been very hostile of late...but i agree some form of communicating needs to be had through Gina or someone...i'd rather them spend their day testing the patch, fixing bugs, resolving lag, etc...but without any word of what you guys are up to, the majority of us are going to come under the impression that all ww2 does is sit around an office and twiddle their thumbs while they think of improvements for a cyrodil they don't actively engage in...the two of you have the best jobs in the world where you can play video games at work and not get scolded at for doing so...so why is it that you never do this (assuming since if you guys actually did play the game you would see how terrible pvp is right now and know that the player base is very frustrated).

It's time for the two of you to start doing your jobs, play your game, feel our pain, and understand our frustration with everything that has been going on. CU is right around the corner, BDO is out now, and if you've been paying attention to the forums (again probably not) you would know that a lot of your community is leaving/already left. If you want them to stay, address the issues, tell us you're working on them, let us know what you're doing to alleviate the server stain. Get rid of aoe caps. If cyrodiil gets better you might be able to convince some to stay.

_Chaos

GRxKnight wrote: »

If you want them to stay, address the issues, tell us you're working on them, let us know what you're doing to alleviate the server stain.

They've already done this, and frankly no words can keep me around much longer. I need results. I need to know that they are aggressively trying to fix the performance issues. Be bold, make big changes and put them on PTS for weekends at a time.

I'm really hoping they get their snip together, because this does have the potential to retain and bring back it's former members if the latency is ironed out. Balance changes aside it's the damn ping that everyone has beef with.

Ishammael

I amuse myself by watching videos from 1.5 on YouTube (thanks @Etaniel!!) and my own footage from the early days of 1.6.

Bashev

Good points. We need some information what is the road ahead. If the devs do not want to post in the forms then let them have a monthly blog in the official website where they can let us know about their vision of the game and explain us what are the reasons behind their decisions.

Ghostbane

Ishammael wrote: »

I amuse myself by watching videos from 1.5 on YouTube (thanks @Etaniel!!) and my own footage from the early days of 1.6.

Yeah, NBs were fun in 1.6

VoiDGhOs7

I still don't get why they're afraid to try introduce some changes on Live server without 1st testing it on PTS.Because PTS can't handle intensive testing with lot of players around.

I remember when vampire plague hit PVP they introduced AoE caps very fast without any testing(because PTS wasn't introduced yet) and that was the 1st step in the wrong direction 2 months they pushed Lightning Patch which caused huge problems to performance and where the lag started to show up more frequently but not as bad as with every patch came after.And patch after patch population caps got lowered from 600/800 per faction to who knows what it's now.

Sure we can blame WW2 but they aren't the only guilties on ESO combat management as Fengrush said there many others in ZOS hierarchy who decides what to do and when.

I as a player who plays both PvP/PvE I'm really disappointed by the decisions they make without considering players feedback being it in PvP or PvE wise and the majority of times the changed mechanics that shouldnt have been changed making game worse and worse.

I had 2 breaks(both after CP system came out) from ESO during these 2 years but every time I returned the performance was worst than the previous one,I'll keep playing but Cyrodiil EU performance is really bad I can play with 200 ping no problems but when it reaches 600+ ping fun becomes frustation and I just log off or do something else.

Just my 2 cents please don't flame me.

Ishammael

Ghostbane wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I amuse myself by watching videos from 1.5 on YouTube (thanks @Etaniel!!) and my own footage from the early days of 1.6.

Yeah, NBs were fun in 1.6

Once I figured out 1.6 DK it was pretty fun. Still better than it is now. Not as fun as 1.5... but hey, can't have everything.

Sallington

Why do people expect a response prior to the Dark Brotherhood PTS update?

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein

Zheg

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

I still don't get why they're afraid to try introduce some changes on Live server without 1st testing it on PTS.Because PTS can't handle intensive testing with lot of players around.

I remember when vampire plague hit PVP they introduced AoE caps very fast without any testing(because PTS wasn't introduced yet) and that was the 1st step in the wrong direction 2 months they pushed Lightning Patch which caused huge problems to performance and where the lag started to show up more frequently but not as bad as with every patch came after.And patch after patch population caps got lowered from 600/800 per faction to who knows what it's now.

Sure we can blame WW2 but they aren't the only guilties on ESO combat management as Fengrush said there many others in ZOS hierarchy who decides what to do and when.

I as a player who plays both PvP/PvE I'm really disappointed by the decisions they make without considering players feedback being it in PvP or PvE wise and the majority of times the changed mechanics that shouldnt have been changed making game worse and worse.

I had 2 breaks(both after CP system came out) from ESO during these 2 years but every time I returned the performance was worst than the previous one,I'll keep playing but Cyrodiil EU performance is really bad I can play with 200 ping no problems but when it reaches 600+ ping fun becomes frustation and I just log off or do something else.

Just my 2 cents please don't flame me.

Oh, I very much believe the higher ups deserve a hefty amount of blame. I disagree with a bunch of ww2's decisions, but at the end of the day it ends up just being one person's opinion. Even if I don't agree, and even if many players don't agree, there needs to be some level of communication, and it needs to happen BEFORE the patch hits PTS/Live. I guarantee right now the combat team has a list of changes they're working on for DB and probably already have a good portion done. They're going to repeat their same failed formula of not saying anything, putting something disastrous/controversial on PTS, they'll get another 85+ page templar thread and act surprised, and then it will pushed to Live because there isn't enough time in the PTS cycle. With all of that said, even just for this one particular TG patch, given that soooo much was changed and so many of those changes were consequential, I don't think a simple what worked/what didn't work is asking for too much. I already know I don't agree with ww2, but if the fruit of the "what worked and didn't" shows that wrobel is ecstatic over the mobility changes and how slow combat feels overall, well ... I think the playerbase needs to have a barometer for what the combat team's outlook is.

OdinForge

Let's be honest here.

They're avoiding the forums, because historically that's what they've always done. Communication with the ESO player-base has never been strong, even when there was less hostility. People and guilds were quitting well before 1.6 dropped, and people had a lot to complain about during 1.6 but the hostility really kicked in during and after the IC patch. Tons of screwed up balance changes, tons of changes no one asked for, too many bugs and unplayable ping. Not to mention a rather worthless content update and lack of QA for new code.

There wouldn't be as much hostility if they fixed the lag sooner, if they communicated better from the start. I don't feel so bad for ZOS here, they've had ample time to fix relations with PvPers.

TG continues a destructive trend (especially for PvP), one that Orsinium and IC set before it. Nothing is stopping DB from continuing this.

Psilent

You forgot this response from Wheeler in the Campaign Performance thread.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have more fixes incoming over time and while there have been some improvements, it's still far from where we want to be. Some of these will continue to come in hot fixes and others in major patches.

I think the part that scares me the most is "major patches", meaning we'll be dealing with this lag through Dark Brotherhood and Clockwork City!

@ZOS_Brianwheeler we just want to know what happened with Thieves Guild on the performance front. Why did everything get worse instead of better?

Soris

Did they actually say anything? I'm too lazy to read 2 threads for 10+ pages

timidobserver

GRxKnight wrote: »

I can understand them not replying

I don't expect a direct "reply" to anything specific. Though, like Zhegg is saying, a general we did this, this worked, this didn't, expect this in the future post would be nice.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Zheg

Psilent wrote: »

You forgot this response from Wheeler in the Campaign Performance thread.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have more fixes incoming over time and while there have been some improvements, it's still far from where we want to be. Some of these will continue to come in hot fixes and others in major patches.

I think the part that scares me the most is "major patches", meaning we'll be dealing with this lag through Dark Brotherhood and Clockwork City!

@ZOS_Brianwheeler we just want to know what happened with Thieves Guild on the performance front. Why did everything get worse instead of better?

Yes, performance is always the elephant in the room and the most important. At this point though, I'll allow myself to be pleasantly surprised, but I don't bother wasting energy on hope or faith that they'll actually get it to a good place.

Rather, what I was trying to address in this thread were the things that they do have immense control over and trying to get them to share what their thoughts are on all of the balance changes they implemented. We all know performance is ***, but how do they feel about pvp as a whole with all of the changes combined? How do they feel about how each has performed individually? Purge, barrier, rapids, prox det, healing, siege, VD, fasallas guile, burst damage, damage in general, shields, solo vs small group vs large group dynamic, forward camps, keep assault and defense, the size and duration of major keep fights - why are we still guessing what their views on all of these things are? It's been 3 weeks, we've all formed our opinions and shared feedback, what are their opinions? Why is this like pulling teeth?

Etaniel

Give up already, it's not gonna happen and you know it

Ghost-Shot

Etaniel wrote: »

Give up already, it's not gonna happen and you know it

I think even though most of us are set on leaving when the CU beta is available we are just subconsciously holding onto a hope that they will fix this game before we leave, probably too much to ask for though.

booksmcread

OdinForge wrote: »

TG continues a destructive trend (especially for PvP), one that Orsinium and IC set before it. Nothing is stopping DB from continuing this.

Continuously degrading server performance is trending.

Alcast

No ETA

AbraXuSeXile

Out of everything including lag the most annoying thing for me is they'll put out a DLC change some things and go straight to work on next DLC without altering things theyve changed.

Its almost like they are scared to change and alter without upsetting someone.

Bfish22090

they wont talk about this thread tomorrow.
too many safeboxes to loot and RPing to do on eso live instead of pvp
if they havent fixed the bugs and lag by now and have only added more bugs and lag, i dont have faith in them fixing them anytime soon

Sallington

Bfish22090 wrote: »

they wont talk about this thread tomorrow.
too many safeboxes to loot and RPing to do on eso live instead of pvp
if they havent fixed the bugs and lag by now and have only added more bugs and lag, i dont have faith in them fixing them anytime soon

Next thing to talk about will be all the cool stuff coming with Dark Brotherhood! Exciting!!!! More DLC!!!!!


ZOS: "Money pleeeeeease!"

OdinForge

Sallington wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

they wont talk about this thread tomorrow.
too many safeboxes to loot and RPing to do on eso live instead of pvp
if they havent fixed the bugs and lag by now and have only added more bugs and lag, i dont have faith in them fixing them anytime soon

Next thing to talk about will be all the cool stuff coming with Dark Brotherhood! Exciting!!!! More DLC!!!!!


ZOS: "Money pleeeeeease!"

Who knows, maybe they'll bug the game so hard, it reverts back to 1.5 server.

Ishammael

OdinForge wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

they wont talk about this thread tomorrow.
too many safeboxes to loot and RPing to do on eso live instead of pvp
if they havent fixed the bugs and lag by now and have only added more bugs and lag, i dont have faith in them fixing them anytime soon

Next thing to talk about will be all the cool stuff coming with Dark Brotherhood! Exciting!!!! More DLC!!!!!


ZOS: "Money pleeeeeease!"

Who knows, maybe they'll bug the game so hard, it reverts back to 1.5 server.

PLS ZOSE!!!!

HoloYoitsu

Zheg wrote: »

I may only have black and white tv in my templar house

Good, then you can watch the new live action ESO commercial they've been working on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmHjMYFITWM

Ishammael

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I may only have black and white tv in my templar house

Good, then you can watch the new live action ESO commercial they've been working on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmHjMYFITWM

Sweet bejeebus WHAT IS THIS?!

HoloYoitsu

Ishammael wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I may only have black and white tv in my templar house

Good, then you can watch the new live action ESO commercial they've been working on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmHjMYFITWM

Sweet bejeebus WHAT IS THIS?!

Whatever it is, it looks about 100x more fun than the actual TG DLC.

Morozov

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Give up already, it's not gonna happen and you know it

I think even though most of us are set on leaving when the CU beta is available we are just subconsciously holding onto a hope that they will fix this game before we leave, probably too much to ask for though.

cant be here soon enough

Ishammael

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I may only have black and white tv in my templar house

Good, then you can watch the new live action ESO commercial they've been working on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmHjMYFITWM

Sweet bejeebus WHAT IS THIS?!

Whatever it is, it looks about 100x more fun than the actual TG DLC.

You mean that blonde chick looks 100x more fun than TG DLC

Soris

Ishammael wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I may only have black and white tv in my templar house

Good, then you can watch the new live action ESO commercial they've been working on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmHjMYFITWM

Sweet bejeebus WHAT IS THIS?!

That's where your money go.

Ghostbane

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I may only have black and white tv in my templar house

Good, then you can watch the new live action ESO commercial they've been working on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmHjMYFITWM

I had to change the youtube player speed to 0.25 to get a more authentic aussie Tamriel experience.