4K spell damage? Is it real?

Resipsa131

Oldmanlawlor wrote: »

I have a full light set of twice born on, with magicka and spell power boons. With a nerieneth 2 piece. My armour has divines on small and infused on big with max magicka. I have a full willpower set on, with spell damage enchantments and arcane. Rocking dual world swords with 2 piece of torus for spell power. I have 400(ish) champion points as they're in thaunaturge and what not.

I cannot get my magicka nightbkade over 2.3k spell damage. What's going on here?

I run TBS thief/shadow Willpower Rings spell power enchants and molag kena shoulders divines and torugs hat, staff and swords and on my sword bar I have over 2500 spellpower. This is completely unbuffed buffed you are going to get close to 3K to get near 4K you need to proc molag kena and wear julianous or clever alchemist. I think you're in a good place with your set

Francescolg

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why so many players cling to high weapon and spell damage still baffles me. (...)

The problem is that this game is more rewarding , in terms of AP (PvP-reward points per kill), for the burst-dps builds than for anybody else.

Mr. Wrobel's "philosophy of how you earn PvP points as a healer/or/supporter type" is: "Not everybody wanted that heal! (So WTH should a healer/supporter get the same % of AP for a kill, if the player who did 50-100% of the killing damage deserves more AP!?) The player who was healed might not have wanted the heal"

From this follows, that pure-healers (without group) do get much less benefits/AP. If they decide to cast Heals over Time (HoTs), or substantial heals, they will be rewarded much less AP at any given situation, where they do not 'participate enough' at direct damage against the target.

This means, that, as a solo-healer, you will be punished, if (in any battle) you decide to heal your ally, instead of trying to add your damage to the target, as you need a reasonable % of dmg done, to get your fair AP share. Otherwise, if you choose to heal some players during a battle (rescuing them, or bringing them back to 100%HP), you will be rewarded much less AP, than if you contributed 50% of the killing damage. (just random numbers).

That is one of the reasons, why SO many people play with rush attack + burst DD, or Crystal Frags, or NB cloak+crit shot/DD [and repeat], as this ways to play PvP are much more rewarding. It makes a difference if a solo player does 100k AP in a few hours, while others struggle to get 20k AP! (Of course, in case of playing in a group, the AP-gain situation is different!)

Valrien

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

you can get 4k with kena proc and surge buff while using a staff, but you will have absolutely no regen and be focused on your magicka pool instead of doing damage in any prolonged fight.

you can get way over 4k with swords, and be even more useless for more of the fight.

3100-3400 spell dmg with major sorcery buff seems like a good place to be

Regen is 100% useless in PvE. If your healer is worth his salt then he'll keep up your magicka pool.

mistermutiny89

Spell damage isn't everything, especially on a nightblade. Your highest possible spell damage comes from being invisible... In which you can't be throughout the entirety of the fight. With Templars and sorcs, that's a different story.

Your balance of spell damage and Magicka is a good thing. Just remember that there is a steep decline in the actual damage added via each pool threshold.. Much like how champion point allocation works. After 40k Magicka and 3,500 spell power the damage bonus becomes much smaller.

Find the balance.

Elijah_Crow

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why so many players cling to high weapon and spell damage still baffles me. There are so many other stats that out scale flat damage from weapon and spell damage that don't show up on the character screen. So many people overlook massive bonuses that increase dps indirectly or through other means. High critical chance and critical damage builds currently vastly outshine basic spell or weapon damage stacking builds.

I'm sorry, but you are just plain wrong there.

If you are a player who also PvP's then you absolutely do not want to stack or depend on critical hits for your damage. Besides the fact that shields cannot be critted, you are dealing with the impenetrable trait reducing your damage. If you PvP at all, even occasionally, you are better off building on a high weapon or spell power build as it's just as effective in PVE with none of the drawbacks of other builds in PvP and let's you play whatever content without having to have multiple sets of gear, etc.

In addition to my 4.5k weapon damage I also have a 52% crit chance and quite a bit expanded crit damage range. No one with 3k weapon damage and an 80% crit chance and the shadow mundus is going to out dps me in PVE. I appreciate many of the posts you've made in the past and particularly with the Nightblade class but much of what you just said is just untrue and misleading.

Saint314Louis1985

Valrien wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

you can get 4k with kena proc and surge buff while using a staff, but you will have absolutely no regen and be focused on your magicka pool instead of doing damage in any prolonged fight.

you can get way over 4k with swords, and be even more useless for more of the fight.

3100-3400 spell dmg with major sorcery buff seems like a good place to be

Regen is 100% useless in PvE. If your healer is worth his salt then he'll keep up your magicka pool.

I disagree. While its not necessary to have 2k regen, i feel like having 1100-1300 regen makes a pretty big difference rather than getting down to the 700-800 range for a few hundred more dmg per hit. Counting on someone else to sustain you is never a good thing and can cause things to go wrong. The average player does not have a set group to play with day in and day out.

Valrien

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

you can get 4k with kena proc and surge buff while using a staff, but you will have absolutely no regen and be focused on your magicka pool instead of doing damage in any prolonged fight.

you can get way over 4k with swords, and be even more useless for more of the fight.

3100-3400 spell dmg with major sorcery buff seems like a good place to be

Regen is 100% useless in PvE. If your healer is worth his salt then he'll keep up your magicka pool.

I disagree. While its not necessary to have 2k regen, i feel like having 1100-1300 regen makes a pretty big difference rather than getting down to the 700-800 range for a few hundred more dmg per hit. Counting on someone else to sustain you is never a good thing and can cause things to go wrong. The average player does not have a set group to play with day in and day out.

Counting on other people is what group-play is all about, no? I rely on the healer to keep my stats up (both health and stam/mag), I rely on the tank to keep the boss of of me, and I rely on both of them to supply DPS buffs. The healer and tank support the DPS and in turn the DPS can do their job better so the fight ends faster putting less stress on the healer and tank. The dungeon/trial group is like a self-sustaining ecosystem...which proves both of our points correct. You can rely on each other to be as efficient as possible, but if one link in the chain goes away the group has the potential to fall apart.

laksikus

Rikumaru wrote: »

You can hit 5k spell dmg. *Without CP*

you can get alot more than that, with all buffs

gold dw is 1605 + 2p torugs 129+ 5p alchemist 129 + proc 661 + 2p kena 129 +proc 516 + willpower 186 + 3x174 for spell damage glyphs + apprentice 213 + spellpower cure 258

thats 4348 spell dmage without any multiplicator.
*1,2 for major
*1,05 minor
*1,05 for scrolls
*1,1 for taking a keep
thats 6327 Spell damage,

for sorcs *1,12 for 6 stormcalling = 7086
or nb *1,1 for sneak = 6960

Troneon

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This is with the Thief mundus (spell crit) and one purple shoulder piece so my stats could be a little higher.

5x Julianos, 2x Molag Kena, 3x Willpower and 2x Torugs Pact.

SORC OP

Saint314Louis1985

Valrien wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

you can get 4k with kena proc and surge buff while using a staff, but you will have absolutely no regen and be focused on your magicka pool instead of doing damage in any prolonged fight.

you can get way over 4k with swords, and be even more useless for more of the fight.

3100-3400 spell dmg with major sorcery buff seems like a good place to be

Regen is 100% useless in PvE. If your healer is worth his salt then he'll keep up your magicka pool.

I disagree. While its not necessary to have 2k regen, i feel like having 1100-1300 regen makes a pretty big difference rather than getting down to the 700-800 range for a few hundred more dmg per hit. Counting on someone else to sustain you is never a good thing and can cause things to go wrong. The average player does not have a set group to play with day in and day out.

Counting on other people is what group-play is all about, no? I rely on the healer to keep my stats up (both health and stam/mag), I rely on the tank to keep the boss of of me, and I rely on both of them to supply DPS buffs. The healer and tank support the DPS and in turn the DPS can do their job better so the fight ends faster putting less stress on the healer and tank. The dungeon/trial group is like a self-sustaining ecosystem...which proves both of our points correct. You can rely on each other to be as efficient as possible, but if one link in the chain goes away the group has the potential to fall apart.

In a perfect group, yes.

In your average PUG, no.

I try to gear for the times when the healer is dead, the boss is close to execute and we have no true tank. To be sustainable enough to make up for the weak link and adapt if things do go bad. I expect the healer to keep us healed and anything else is just a bonus.

If you choose to run low regen, more power to you if it suits your playstyle. Just dont blame the healer if youre low on magicka.

I agree to disagree.

Brrrofski

My magica NB has 2444 unbuffed. But I also have 39k magica (no undaunted yet) and 2k regen. 24k health in pvp too. Of course spell damage goes up 10% in stealth, 20% with pot or sap too.

I run 5 kagernacs, 1 kena, 3 torug's (any other set compromises spell power on resto bar) and 3 willpower. This is for pvp. Could stack damage, but I like playing with sustain. It's a solo/small group pvp build.

Twice born is honestly only good is you run increase crit change and increase crit damage. Even then, it's a pve set.

Gilliamtherogue

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why so many players cling to high weapon and spell damage still baffles me. There are so many other stats that out scale flat damage from weapon and spell damage that don't show up on the character screen. So many people overlook massive bonuses that increase dps indirectly or through other means. High critical chance and critical damage builds currently vastly outshine basic spell or weapon damage stacking builds.

I'm sorry, but you are just plain wrong there.

If you are a player who also PvP's then you absolutely do not want to stack or depend on critical hits for your damage. Besides the fact that shields cannot be critted, you are dealing with the impenetrable trait reducing your damage. If you PvP at all, even occasionally, you are better off building on a high weapon or spell power build as it's just as effective in PVE with none of the drawbacks of other builds in PvP and let's you play whatever content without having to have multiple sets of gear, etc.

In addition to my 4.5k weapon damage I also have a 52% crit chance and quite a bit expanded crit damage range. No one with 3k weapon damage and an 80% crit chance and the shadow mundus is going to out dps me in PVE. I appreciate many of the posts you've made in the past and particularly with the Nightblade class but much of what you just said is just untrue and misleading.

I have almost identical numbers to what you posted self buffed (3325 weapon damage, 83.9% crit + shadow mudnus) and I guarantee you that I will out parse you in any PvE scenario. While my response was shifted to more of a PvE mindset, the same idea can be applied into PvP. Running selfish builds in PvP with coordinated groups is often the reason a one group loses to another organized group. The group running the most utility to increase the potency of their entire group's capability will always outshine another group of selfish builds, assuming equal skill levels are there. Notice how I mentioned other sources of damage, aside from critical. In PvP, yes critical builds lose quite a bit of efficiency due to damage shields and impenetrable, but again here other forms of damage, utility, or sustain will out preform simple weapon damage stacking. Unless you are strictly gearing yourself for a solo build for 1v1-3, you will find that other stats become much more important as opposed to a few more set bonuses of weapon damage.

Mush55

3850 buffed, Julianous x5, Nerieneth x2, 3 willpower arcane x2 spell dmg glyphs. 2x tourogs swords.

Staff bar = 3350 sd

Edit regen at 1600 with blue max health magic regen drink.

WatchYourSixx

As a PvE based Magicka DK, I run 5pc Julianos, 3pc Willpower, 1pc torug's 1pc Kena.

This gives me a MAXIMUM of 2600 sp dmg unbuffed. However, DK's have nothing to boost sp dmg directly. Throw in major sorc, minor sorc, spc, and kena 2pc/maelstrom staff instead of torugs, you will get 4282 sp dmg. You will also have about 40k max magicka, and 700~ regen depending on what race.

DK's have the benefit of ele drain proccing off of EVERY single damage they do though, so regen is no issue at all. You dont have to worry about going oom if you have someone to keep ele drain up or if you are.

DK

As for any other set, I believe (For PvE DK's at least) You wouldnt be able to do as much damage. TBS is supposedly good, but julianos has beat it out in every test I've done. *shrug*

As a DPS, your job is to deal as much damage as possible to kill whatever needs to be killed, assuming you can handle the heat. If you are dying often, or running out of magicka often, you should obviously adjust your build to suit your skills. However, a higher skilled player can run with 16k health and no defensive skills/low regen, because they would be wasted otherwise.

I am just talking PvE though, as I dont pvp I also disagree with the notion that there are diminishing returns on stats. Literally 1 spell dmg is equivalent to 10.46 mag, so you want EVERY point of sp dmg you can get. There is no hard cap. There is no soft cap.

If you want to get technical though, there IS a hard cap on every stat, but its only limited by what your gear can provide you. So if you can get 6k sp dmg, or 7k as one person pointed out (Sorcs OP) its not like you wont have 40k+ mag still. You might have slightly less in a certain stat, but its not going to be a game changer. For example, going over 3500 sp dmg (like someone tried to say theres not really a point going over that number) would still increase your dps as much as going from 2500-3500. It's a 100% increase, with no diminishing returns.

But hey! What do I know. I'm just good at math.

Joy_Division

Valrien wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

you can get 4k with kena proc and surge buff while using a staff, but you will have absolutely no regen and be focused on your magicka pool instead of doing damage in any prolonged fight.

you can get way over 4k with swords, and be even more useless for more of the fight.

3100-3400 spell dmg with major sorcery buff seems like a good place to be

Regen is 100% useless in PvE. If your healer is worth his salt then he'll keep up your magicka pool.

I disagree. While its not necessary to have 2k regen, i feel like having 1100-1300 regen makes a pretty big difference rather than getting down to the 700-800 range for a few hundred more dmg per hit. Counting on someone else to sustain you is never a good thing and can cause things to go wrong. The average player does not have a set group to play with day in and day out.

Counting on other people is what group-play is all about, no? I rely on the healer to keep my stats up (both health and stam/mag), I rely on the tank to keep the boss of of me, and I rely on both of them to supply DPS buffs. The healer and tank support the DPS and in turn the DPS can do their job better so the fight ends faster putting less stress on the healer and tank. The dungeon/trial group is like a self-sustaining ecosystem...which proves both of our points correct. You can rely on each other to be as efficient as possible, but if one link in the chain goes away the group has the potential to fall apart.

You won't be getting any resource regen from me when I heal unless your are a stam build.. Go ahead and claim I'm not worth my salt, the fact of the matter is in 90% of PuG groups you aren't getting elemental drain or siphon spirit and there are different ways to "heal" than just be a magicka battery for you to run around with zero resource sustain just so you can feel good about your DPS parses.

Apherius

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

5X Clever Alchemist

this set is bad . d'ont use this big ... . beacause , 638 SD or something else , but only for 15 secondes ! 45 secondes with no buff !

Forestd16b14_ESO

Rikumaru wrote: »

You can hit 5k spell dmg. *Without CP*

Hey magic users you still gonna cry saying how "under powered" you are now ?

Apherius

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This is with the Thief mundus (spell crit) and one purple shoulder piece so my stats could be a little higher.

5x Julianos, 2x Molag Kena, 3x Willpower and 2x Torugs Pact.

xDDD you do screen during a Kena boss ?

Taleof2Cities

I'm a PvP healer ... so I'm not even going for max spell damage on my Templar. However, I'm still getting an unbuffed 2,500 spell damage from the following mostly v15 (very soon to be upgraded to v16) equipment:

5x Julianos w/Resto Destro Staff
3x Archmage
3x Willpower Jewelry

Using the Ritual Mundus for extra heals which currently translates to a 23K barrier in Cyrodiil.

WatchYourSixx

Apherius wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

5X Clever Alchemist

this set is bad . d'ont use this big ... . beacause , 638 SD or something else , but only for 15 secondes ! 45 secondes with no buff !

@Apherius If it really counts... 15 sec buff means a 30 sec downtime not 45 sec... use 3 jewelry enchants gold of reduction cost on potions, and you can get it to a 50% uptime, with it not being up for 15 sec. Cooldown of 30 sec instead.

So technically you can get it to where this set always gives you 330 sp dmg. Whereas if you dont get those jewelry enchants... its only a 220 sp dmg buff. Using those 3 jewl enchants though you will lose 519 sp dmg from not having sp dmg enchants. Either way the set is trash. It would only work on a double dual wield build.

Apherius

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

5X Clever Alchemist

this set is bad . d'ont use this big ... . beacause , 638 SD or something else , but only for 15 secondes ! 45 secondes with no buff !

@Apherius If it really counts... 15 sec buff means a 30 sec downtime not 45 sec... use 3 jewelry enchants gold of reduction cost on potions, and you can get it to a 50% uptime, with it not being up for 15 sec. Cooldown of 30 sec instead.

So technically you can get it to where this set always gives you 330 sp dmg. Whereas if you dont get those jewelry enchants... its only a 220 sp dmg buff. Using those 3 jewl enchants though you will lose 519 sp dmg from not having sp dmg enchants. Either way the set is trash. It would only work on a double dual wield build.

hum , ok

Oldmanlawlor

There's so much information in here. Thank you all for this feedback.

It seems like I need to ditch the twice born and get myself some julianos!

Lenikus

As a sorcerer, you can reach as much as 5k'ish spell damage, and 4k spell damage is easily achievable on any class if you know your alchemist / molag kena.
Mundus stones buffs usually include Aprentice, for teh spell damage itself, but unless you're running some alchemist and twice born 4*5~5/5 set that gets you a buff bar with alchemist proc and a front bar with 2 mundus being aprentice and thief, Most dps actually run thief as mundus. Sometimes atronach for the regen. either way, thief is the go-to because crit is love. crit is life.

Sometimes, however, it's fair to point out that if your dps depends on either of those sets or any other proc'able skill/set, like overload, no matter how high dps you pull, it's still called burst dps and actual dps peepz will simply ignore your 40k dps if after you run out of ulti you have to light attack+crushing shot to victory in the next boss (or the previous ones if in the final).

mb10

I've seen over 6k weapon damage so anything is real to me right now