[BUG] Marksman Mesh for Female Characters not actually female

ContraTempo

Gidorick wrote: »

I think players and designers are forgetting this is a high fantasy game and not a medieval fantasy game. We have cats and lizards walking around with breasts but somehow armor that confirms to the contour of that bosom is inappropriate.

Give me a break. ZOS will lose more business than it will gain from gender neutral armors.

I say bring on the boob armor. Bring on the cod pieces. This is fantastical world, the armor should reflect that.

On the contrary, what I see a lot of people saying is that it's not WRONG because it's not boob armor. Notice that ZoS has not nerfed boobs on existing armors, they just introduced one set that's more in keeping with historical norms.

The mistake was in not having some way for the buyer to see what he was getting before paying. Like how the crown store let's you preview costumes.

Lysette

Icy wrote: »

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Turelus wrote: »

Maybe that's the look they wanted for that style. They can't make every style appeal to every person. As @Abeille said this just adds options. The complaint should be "Why can't I change sets to styles I like?" rather than "This doesn't suit my personal taste, so change it everyone else"

Also there are plenty of costume options which the look desired, not all of them from the Crown Store either.

Sure, and that's fine, but there was NO way for me to SEE that "This doesn't suit my personal taste" before out outlayed 150k gold and bound it to my account; so I can't even sell it on to someone who would appreciate it.

I've got no problem having a flat boob-plate, however I would like my character to have a waist.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_GinaBruno Is the Marksman's Armour looking as intended on the female character mesh??

A tight waist is actually a valid point - but not by fashion reasons - classic armor was very tight in the waist (nearly as tight as a corset), not because it would look good, but in order that part of the armor weight can be absorbed by the hips, so that shoulder muscles are not tiring that quickly.

Duiwel

I just read that OP wants gold back... should you not uhm maybe ... you know have made a set in a cheaper mat & lower lvl to see what it looks like first or gone to the forums & asked?

So much lolz ...

You have people ( myself included ) who have crafted legendary pieces only to realise we didn't add traits or forgot to add a set ect.

Yet none of us have ever called for a refund because it's our mistake.

Take responsibility OP.

Learn from your mistake OR learn to love this new armour you initially thought was ugly, as it might grow on you

NerfPlease

Duiwel wrote: »

I just read that OP wants gold back... should you not uhm maybe ... you know have made a set in a cheaper mat & lower lvl to see what it looks like

its not a craftable set

Duiwel

NerfPlease wrote: »

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Duiwel wrote: »

I just read that OP wants gold back... should you not uhm maybe ... you know have made a set in a cheaper mat & lower lvl to see what it looks like

its not a craftable set

Oh is it the pvp set? The crappy one that I got a shield with that if I have 5 pieces I do more dmg when using a bow ( which I can't since it's a shield ), I see... In that case I guess the devs can argue that OP can just PvP a week and make 200k AP with new AP rates and then make the money back?

Apologies for this silly mistake I don't use bows and I just decon those, any non Vicious Death rewards of the worthy gets de-conned by me

GaldorP

Personally, I really don't care if an armor is designed in a typical fantasy MMOG "boob armor" style (which you could argue is objectifying women in general) or in a (historically accurate) realistic style. I always thought ESO had found a good middle way between two extremes (between too much [in the worst case: adolescent male sexual] fantasy and too much realism; and this doesn't just apply to armor styles but to world design in general).

My point is that I think the Marksman's Crest armor set looks just too different from all other armor styles I've known in the game before TG and it really does make a character (any character) look bloated, in my opinion. If it's based on real historical armor, then I personally think they've gone too far with the realism, this time.

Also, a quick reminder that Marksman's Crest is a medium armor set, not a heavy armor set since there seems to have been a lot of discussion about heavy armor in this thread.

Does anyone here think that this actually looks good? (I still believe the look is unintended and that there is some kind of bug.)

GaldorP wrote: »

I feel like the new Marksman's Crest set also made my character look a bit bloated:

Crafted Hunding's Rage & Molag Kena sets from Template on the left, Marksman's Crest set received from Rewards for the Worthy! mails on the right.

Icy

Duiwel wrote: »

I just read that OP wants gold back... should you not uhm maybe ... you know have made a set in a cheaper mat & lower lvl to see what it looks like first or gone to the forums & asked?

So much lolz ...

It's a dropped, BIND ON EQUIP set. There was NO way for me to test this before hand. http://eso-fashion.com/ does not yet have pictures of female characters wearing the Marksman armour.

If this is a bug, and they've just forgotten to map this to the female mesh, I've got no problem. If this is intended, I'd like my gold back please.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_GinaBruno Is the Marksman's Armour looking as intended on the female character mesh??

And yeah. It's medium armour, not heavy. It's in no way consistent with any other medium armour styles in the game.

GIVE ME MY WAIST BACK PLEASE

Vyle_Byte

ZOS has actually stated that they used to make armors using female and male models, they have since went a different direction and are only using male models which is why the armor from now on is going to look this way.

I believe this is where it is stated:

adriant1978 wrote: »

ESO Live at 00:35:20.

DaniAngione

I'd rather have people leaving than having ZOS go down a more sexist, unrealistic, market-appealing road.

Besides, if someone leaves a game because they refuse to have boob plates and would rather have more sexist armor, I wouldn't care having them as company anyway.

This has been discussed already when ZOS removed the non-sensical cleavage from Orc motif... Interesting enough, most of the people complaining were male, lol.
There's enough misogyny in the world already, can we please leave it as far from ESO as possible?

Lenikus

.... Aah,,, i missed the threads about booby armor.

milkbox

Honey, does this Vicious Death jerkin make me look fat?

(be very careful what you answer...)



Both light armors, new armor clearly not using female model. I don't think that asking for distinction between genders is particularly misogynistic.

Buyer beware that new drop sets may not fit the way you like.

zyk

I think all of the new PVP armor sets have mesh issues. On my male Dunmer, most heavy and light pieces do not scale properly. For example, the shoulder pieces are HUGE with large gaps.

Based on the costumes ZOS has been introducing, I doubt they are nerfing boobs.

Ariisen

It's not about boobs, everything looks too... bulky?

Look at the waist, the legs, the arms...

Volkodav

Tondodino wrote: »

I know it's difficult and heartbreaking to grasp for some men, but boobs don't require special armor compartments. Just like the male groin doesn't require a special shaft compartment to be carved into leg armor (much to their additional disappointment, I'm sure).

However they DID have Cod Pieces to cover those bits.And they were seen.
Just mentioned that since people are going on about realism in armor.

Icy

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

ZOS has actually stated that they used to make armors using female and male models, they have since went a different direction and are only using male models which is why the armor from now on is going to look this way. I believe this is where it is stated:

show previous quotes

adriant1978 wrote: »

ESO Live at 00:35:20.

Very interesting! What they say is that they'll use the male torso and make "anatomical corrections as necessary". I do consider a waist necessary! ^_^ I understand that this requires less development input, but please, how hard is it to taper a waist? I hope its not "too hard to animate". >_<

Come ON ZOS! You've been so great giving women the ability to make characters that are flexible and of all shapes and sizes. Don't take that away now by making all future armour remove those differences.

And here' s a NEW twist. Equip a tabard and you get your waist and "other features" back. So, @ZOS_GinaBruno AND/OR @ZOS_JessicaFolsom IS THE MARKSMAN SET WORKING AS INTENDED WITH THE FEMALE MESH?

apostate9

Tondodino wrote: »

I know it's difficult and heartbreaking to grasp for some men, but boobs don't require special armor compartments. Just like the male groin doesn't require a special shaft compartment to be carved into leg armor (much to their additional disappointment, I'm sure).

Wow, that was quite a bit of ire you dripped into that post. I hope the forums have champion points invested in resisting poison damage.

Anyway, some IRL females recently went on these same forums and complained about the armor not being sexy enough, while their "sisters in arms" were simultaneously complaining about being objectified. So if seems some women fail to grasp that other women aren't hyper-sensitive feminists who gent bent out of shape about boob plates in a computer game. Some players, EVEN GIRLS might enjoy having their female toons look super feminine in a game that lets you RP a super-hero that heals broken limbs in 20 seconds and throws fire.

Or maybe you'd prefer the new "sackcloth" or "rain-barrel" motifs coming to the Crowns store soon....

MornaBaine

Icy wrote: »

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Duiwel wrote: »

I just read that OP wants gold back... should you not uhm maybe ... you know have made a set in a cheaper mat & lower lvl to see what it looks like first or gone to the forums & asked?

So much lolz ...

It's a dropped, BIND ON EQUIP set. There was NO way for me to test this before hand. http://eso-fashion.com/ does not yet have pictures of female characters wearing the Marksman armour.

If this is a bug, and they've just forgotten to map this to the female mesh, I've got no problem. If this is intended, I'd like my gold back please.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_GinaBruno Is the Marksman's Armour looking as intended on the female character mesh??

And yeah. It's medium armour, not heavy. It's in no way consistent with any other medium armour styles in the game.

GIVE ME MY WAIST BACK PLEASE

It IS intended. ZoS no longer bothers to make a female mesh of armors. Yeah, they've said so. I invite you to check out this thread to verify: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/248851/how-are-these-light-robes-zos/p1 . You can also see pics showing how amazingly craptastic this new "direction" looks on other armors they've done it with that are supposedly light robes.

captainwolfos

If that's a bug, I don't want it fixed. I must have that armour now.

captainwolfos

GaldorP wrote: »

Personally, I really don't care if an armor is designed in a typical fantasy MMOG "boob armor" style (which you could argue is objectifying women in general) or in a (historically accurate) realistic style. I always thought ESO had found a good middle way between two extremes (between too much [in the worst case: adolescent male sexual] fantasy and too much realism; and this doesn't just apply to armor styles but to world design in general).

My point is that I think the Marksman's Crest armor set looks just too different from all other armor styles I've known in the game before TG and it really does make a character (any character) look bloated, in my opinion. If it's based on real historical armor, then I personally think they've gone too far with the realism, this time.

Also, a quick reminder that Marksman's Crest is a medium armor set, not a heavy armor set since there seems to have been a lot of discussion about heavy armor in this thread.

Does anyone here think that this actually looks good? (I still believe the look is unintended and that there is some kind of bug.)

show previous quotes

GaldorP wrote: »

I feel like the new Marksman's Crest set also made my character look a bit bloated:

Crafted Hunding's Rage & Molag Kena sets from Template on the left, Marksman's Crest set received from Rewards for the Worthy! mails on the right.

I actually think it looks great. I'm all for "historically accurate" armours, personally. I've always though boob plates looked a bit odd, and incredibly uncomfortable.

Icy

OK, a few (more) things

1. Why couldn't ZOS design on the female body mesh and then flatten it onto the male mesh. SURELY that would have been easier and given a better result all round, rather than this TERRIBLE looking armour.
2. The Marksman armour is poorly designed. The tabbard clips through the back of the "skirt".
3. It is MEDIUM. Why is it so bulky?
4. It looks CRAP on my character.
5. One of the big selling points for ESO is fully crafted/customisable characters. If you hide those customisations, WHAT IS THE POINT?
6. WHERE IS MY WAIST? Surely THAT'S a simple change to scale. The TABBARD worn over fixes the waist. Why couldn't the armour do it?
7. Where is an ARMOUR PREVIEW option? 2 years in and we still don't have anything? If I'd been able to preview the armour I wouldn't have bought it.

Finally, (wait for it) @ZOS_GinaBruno AND/OR @ZOS_JessicaFolsom IS THE MARKSMAN SET WORKING AS INTENDED WITH THE FEMALE MESH?

Gidorick

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

ZOS has actually stated that they used to make armors using female and male models, they have since went a different direction and are only using male models which is why the armor from now on is going to look this way.

I believe this is where it is stated:

show previous quotes

adriant1978 wrote: »

ESO Live at 00:35:20.

If anyone thinks this is being done for ANY reason other than cutting ZOS' work in half, you're fooling yourself.

NateAssassin

The hood from the servant's outfit in the TG quests is also messed up and uses a male mesh.

kongkim

Icy wrote: »

OK, a few (more) things

1. Why couldn't ZOS design on the female body mesh and then flatten it onto the male mesh. SURELY that would have been easier and given a better result all round, rather than this TERRIBLE looking armour.
2. The Marksman armour is poorly designed. The tabbard clips through the back of the "skirt".
3. It is MEDIUM. Why is it so bulky?
4. It looks CRAP on my character.
5. One of the big selling points for ESO is fully crafted/customisable characters. If you hide those customisations, WHAT IS THE POINT?
6. WHERE IS MY WAIST? Surely THAT'S a simple change to scale. The TABBARD worn over fixes the waist. Why couldn't the armour do it?
7. Where is an ARMOUR PREVIEW option? 2 years in and we still don't have anything? If I'd been able to preview the armour I wouldn't have bought it.

Finally, (wait for it) @ZOS_GinaBruno AND/OR @ZOS_JessicaFolsom IS THE MARKSMAN SET WORKING AS INTENDED WITH THE FEMALE MESH?

plz. man stop you whine. Don't hope you get anything back

failkiwib16_ESO

Personally I love having both extremely sexualizing armors alongside armor that is realistic. I guess I like being able to change depending on my mood that day -.-

---

I hope we get a "preview" option or an option to actually change armor styles, because everytime I want to craft for my main char, I have to make 10 versions of the set I want, in v14 or v15 ....just to preview, then when I have found a set I like, I go craft that in v16.

...and since my main char is my only crafter, this process takes much longer time with my other chars, where I have to:

• log on my crafter
• craft the items
• bank the items
• relog to char that is supposed to wear the set
• wear everything and decide which ones that I like
• relog to crafter again
• go to crafting station and craft
• go to bank and bank the set
• relog to char to put the armor on

Volkodav

kongkim wrote: »

show previous quotes

Icy wrote: »

OK, a few (more) things

1. Why couldn't ZOS design on the female body mesh and then flatten it onto the male mesh. SURELY that would have been easier and given a better result all round, rather than this TERRIBLE looking armour.
2. The Marksman armour is poorly designed. The tabbard clips through the back of the "skirt".
3. It is MEDIUM. Why is it so bulky?
4. It looks CRAP on my character.
5. One of the big selling points for ESO is fully crafted/customisable characters. If you hide those customisations, WHAT IS THE POINT?
6. WHERE IS MY WAIST? Surely THAT'S a simple change to scale. The TABBARD worn over fixes the waist. Why couldn't the armour do it?
7. Where is an ARMOUR PREVIEW option? 2 years in and we still don't have anything? If I'd been able to preview the armour I wouldn't have bought it.

Finally, (wait for it) @ZOS_GinaBruno AND/OR @ZOS_JessicaFolsom IS THE MARKSMAN SET WORKING AS INTENDED WITH THE FEMALE MESH?

plz. man stop you whine. Don't hope you get anything back

It's "stop youR whine",not "you whine".
The difference being that the first indicates someone's actions,while the latter is descriptive.

If you're going to insult someone at least use the right words.

Icy

kongkim wrote: »

plz. man stop you whine. Don't hope you get anything back

Not whining. Asking for a response from ZOS.

Also, not "man". Woman.

BlueViolet

The pictures of that armour look hideous. It looks as if someone half inflated a balloon partway down her chest.
What the developers do with female versions of armour astounds me sometimes. They go to great lengths to make the game world look visually stunning, and males in armour always look very smart and attractively attired, and yet when it comes to the women, it looks as if someone just half-assed the work, and said "Oh well, that's good enough."

Why? Don't female characters deserve to look as smart and as well presented as the men do? I've seen this in other games, where female characters look utterly hideous because no one took the time to make a proper mesh, and just stuffed them into a male mesh. I thought ESO was beyond that kind of thing, and a bit more classy in that respect.
Clearly I was wrong

baratron

From the screenshots here, the Marksman's Crest armor set really does look ridiculous on female characters. It's supposed to be Medium Armor, correct? Then why is it padded out like Heavy?

I don't mind the lack of "boob armor". Actually, that's a refreshing change. But the lack of waist is bizarre.

The Vicious Death set has the same problem around the waist. This is Light Armor, which is generally just clothing. So why is it so padded?

Recremen

Gotta admit I hope that's intended. Lots of old sets just hug the skin, male and female models alike, and didn't really have their own geometry. I know it's a fantasy game, but if we're going to have armor that's supposed to be at least reasonably realistic, then this is how it would fit on women, as so many other posters have pointed out with picture proof. Armor is supposed to absorb and deflect hits, not encourage them to hit your sternum by outlining your breasts and causing hits to deflect inward.

zyk

The thing about historical references is that they ignore female oppression. Armors of all kinds throughout history have been stylized. For example, to make them look more fearsome.

I believe that, in medieval times, if women were regarded as equals and were common components of armies, many would have chosen feminine looking armor. Much like the present day where many liberated women do not make the same fashion choices as men. There's no shame in choosing to look sexy.

I wonder why ZOS is reducing armor gender diversification. Is it because of production costs or easier asset management for the client?