Shortage of tanks in Tamriel

Wreuntzylla

OP, I think you meant to argue that ZoS should make it so that content never requires a tank or healer.

There is a gaming theory that goes something like this. Most players that spend a significant amount of money in a cash shop are solo DPS with limited game time, and strongly prefer to run out and pew pew with at least someone dying before they die, at least some of the time. To prevent disorganized players from being greatly disadvantaged by organized players, a high DPS and low survivability environment is required. Under this model, the population will drop, but it will hit a comfortable level and because most of the remaining players are affluent, the revenue stream will not change.

As applied to this game, the continuous nerfs to healing and tanking over time (HNoT and TNoT) make it clear that ZoS adheres to this theory. This is the way the game has been heading for quite some time as demonstrated by the HNoT and TNoT. Even nightblade tanking, although not talked about much, took a big hit this patch.

This is why I dislike any non-subscription, cash shop model no matter if it is P2W or not. I also dislike non-subscription models without a cash shop, because under that model, issues are rarely or slowly fixed. I don't think this will change much for future games as subscription models don't have the ability to milk the big spenders.

kojou

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

OP, I think you meant to argue that ZoS should make it so that content never requires a tank or healer.

I'm not sure that was the conclusion that I was reaching for...

My intention of this post is to start a conversation about making tanking more fun so more people will want to do it so I can get groups in a reasonable amount of time on a DPS or Healer as well.

I like tanking as it is, but there are a lot of people that find it "not fun", so my thought was to appeal to those and see if we can discuss ways to make it more fun.

There are those that think that standing there with a taunt and a block is not true tanking and is boring (and I would agree), but I would rather have the player that is ok with that kind of tanking and get a successful run of a dungeon than wait 45 minutes for a "proper" tank when I want to run something other than my tank.

Flak

Tanking is probably the easiest role in PvE once you got the hang of it, I'm also playing and liking all roles, however if you have a (good) tankchar you always have to tank since no-one else wants to.

Wreuntzylla

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

OP, I think you meant to argue that ZoS should make it so that content never requires a tank or healer.

I'm not sure that was the conclusion that I was reaching for...

My intention of this post is to start a conversation about making tanking more fun so more people will want to do it so I can get groups in a reasonable amount of time on a DPS or Healer as well.

I like tanking as it is, but there are a lot of people that find it "not fun", so my thought was to appeal to those and see if we can discuss ways to make it more fun.

There are those that think that standing there with a taunt and a block is not true tanking and is boring (and I would agree), but I would rather have the player that is ok with that kind of tanking and get a successful run of a dungeon than wait 45 minutes for a "proper" tank when I want to run something other than my tank.

Sarcasm. If you read more of my post you would realize that the thrust of my argument is that ZoS is set on a particular course, that course does not include significant tanking or healing and arguments to improve either will be ignored.

damtotb16_ESO

I quit tanking because it's to easy and boring. Veteran dungeons are nerfed so badly that besides IC dungeons you pretty much don't need a tank. Tanking skills do not matter any more, you can be a causal player or a pro tank only difference you will see is that good tanks care to group adds properly but there is no danger for any nab tank if he has decent setup/cp to die at any time or that dps dies if tank does not take aggro fast enough. Few weeks ago i tanked last boss in VDSA as a dps nb maybe 5 min just using dodge roll and vigor, what a joke! Eso failed with tanking, you could see a bad omen from the start when people used light armor + some armor enchantment on jewelry for tanking

Forestd16b14_ESO

Blame cry baby DPS players of PvP and cry baby DPS players of PvE.

PvP~ " I can't gank this guy in heavy armor cause they are spec to be tanks their OP nerf them ZOS wah wah wah wah."

PvE~ " I can't be a un-killable deity in trials and dungeons PvE is to hard nerf it ZOS wah wah wah wah"

Now look were we are HA is useless and CP points can make any one a tank and PvE is just stupidly easy.

I am a tank have been since beta and will always be one ESO and beyond but the amount of crying DPS player do about the game is just pathetic to were you can only be useful by being a DPS player and filling in defense with CP and damage shields.

AFrostWolf

xellink wrote: »

the state of DPS vs Tanks is well demonstrated in this video.

You can watch the whole thing or skip to 2:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqb0EdLP9Uc

This pretty much. When I'm full on 100% tanky and get shredded by dps you know something is wrong. I'm sacrificing all damage for survival, so I'm doing my thing by not being able to kill you via lack of damage, it's only fair that you can't kill me because of my defense. It SHOULD take more than 1 DPS to kill a tank. That is our job. Our job is to soak up tons of damage but not be able to deal any. DPS might as well be using assault rifles against us in the current state of tanking. Tanks need to be buffed.

Forestd16b14_ESO

AFrostWolf wrote: »

show previous quotes

xellink wrote: »

the state of DPS vs Tanks is well demonstrated in this video.

You can watch the whole thing or skip to 2:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqb0EdLP9Uc

This pretty much. When I'm full on 100% tanky and get shredded by dps you know something is wrong. I'm sacrificing all damage for survival, so I'm doing my thing by not being able to kill you via lack of damage, it's only fair that you can't kill me because of my defense. It SHOULD take more than 1 DPS to kill a tank. That is our job. Our job is to soak up tons of damage but not be able to deal any. DPS might as well be using assault rifles against us in the current state of tanking. Tanks need to be buffed.

Well fortunately and hopeing ZOS stays true that HA and tanks are getting buffed in U10 the dark brotherhood update. But it's ZOS .............

hrothbern

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

OP, I think you meant to argue that ZoS should make it so that content never requires a tank or healer.

There is a gaming theory that goes something like this. Most players that spend a significant amount of money in a cash shop are solo DPS with limited game time, and strongly prefer to run out and pew pew with at least someone dying before they die, at least some of the time. To prevent disorganized players from being greatly disadvantaged by organized players, a high DPS and low survivability environment is required. Under this model, the population will drop, but it will hit a comfortable level and because most of the remaining players are affluent, the revenue stream will not change.

As applied to this game, the continuous nerfs to healing and tanking over time (HNoT and TNoT) make it clear that ZoS adheres to this theory. This is the way the game has been heading for quite some time as demonstrated by the HNoT and TNoT. Even nightblade tanking, although not talked about much, took a big hit this patch.

This is why I dislike any non-subscription, cash shop model no matter if it is P2W or not. I also dislike non-subscription models without a cash shop, because under that model, issues are rarely or slowly fixed. I don't think this will change much for future games as subscription models don't have the ability to milk the big spenders.

@Wreuntzylla ,
Smile
Do you also apply game theory when you PVP ? swapping different build set ups on the same character behind a costume at a 70/20/10 rate ?
Posts like your one above are rare... and thinking about it, you produce the next (kind of similar angle) in the "So many are furious ...." thread.

Yes, ZOS is applying min-max to her scope of customer profiles.... assessing the total customer value of each customer profile.... and transforming the game towards the highest company value.
How articulated intentional this happens ? No clue.... Many companies do the same from gut feeling alone.
And because ZOS has to grow (grow or wither !), bigger volumes of customers MUST be attracted as well.

The ideal customer profile has players that are loyal (a high retention rate), spend generous crowns, spread a good reputation of the game (low whining/ranting rate).
If all players would be like that AND there would be enough of them, ZOS would make heaps of profit and would from pure risk avoidance behaviour, spend heaps of money as well to get issues fixed fast.
Any customer that fits above customer profile description, whether it is pew-pew in PVP for 1-2 hours, doing a trial with your comrades, some role playing, just some questing to get the daily dust washed away.... should be cherished by ZOS.


100% to the topic:
Tanks are most of the time very responsible and loyal customers !!! (group Healers as well).
So increasing the chance that a DPS pew-pew can have his several moments of glory against stronger/better organised players is certainly very important.

But the way this good purpose is now implemented at the expense of Tanks (healers) is not ok for me. That can be done better !!!

Lambtron

Shortage averted.

LordTareq

As a Nightblade stamina tank since launch I too have changed to DPS. Tanking in ESO has been a long tradition of nerfs for my character. Starting like a month after launch: the nerf to Shadow Cloak. Now at launch this was an amazing tanking ability. Bosses did not have the see through invisibility mechanic yet, and while using Dark Cloak they would stand disorientated doing nothing, though they would still cast AOE if they had it. You could chain this to achieve long periods of pretty much damage immunity, which was bad and dumbed down tanking and had to be changed. However, in essence it was a very interesting ability, allowing the Nightblade to interrupt key spells/attacks and giving it a interesting ability none of the other classes had, it was just the ability to chain it vs bosses that was bad. Rather than coming up with an interesting tweak that would still make Shadow Cloak a nice tanking tool, they simply destroyed its use for a tank. Well done.

Tanking is also minddumbingly boring imho. Essentially all a tank has to do is taunt -> hold block until taunt is about to run out -> taunt. That is the essence of tanking in ESO, anything else you do is extra but generally not needed.

The latest nerf was the no-stamina regeneration when blocking change. This forces tanks to not block everything, and preferably use heavy attacks. However this does not help tanking be more fun, on the contrary, tanks will still hold block for most of the time in boss fights for fear of a damage spike killing them, and the lack of stamina/magicka regeneration means due to the change will now struggle to do anything 'extra' even if they want to. Atm it feels like I'm fighting my stamina bar more than the boss I'm tanking.

Thankfully the thieves guild came out and I can roam around in medium armour as a ninja, stealing stuff, much more fun.

Shunravi

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It is normal from dps to have to wait and wait and wait some more for a group. It is also normal ok MMOs to have fewer tanks available than other roles.

The stamina regen changes did not hurt tanking. In reality it helped tanking. Tanks are required to be more engaged with the combat and alert to the action. This was a good change vs the boring and overly simplistic taunt and block tanking that was done before. Granted, some tanks may have found it challenging to adjust.

To the discussion concerning aoe taunts, absolutely not. It's not needed and would be horrible for the game. Main reason is we do not need to tank everything. We should focus on the biggest and baddest, though to many mob groups in the older content had mob groups that were a little to equal.

I am actually far less engaged as a tank now than I was before the nerf.

Miszou

LordTareq wrote: »

Tanking is also minddumbingly boring imho. Essentially all a tank has to do is taunt -> hold block until taunt is about to run out -> taunt. That is the essence of tanking in ESO, anything else you do is extra but generally not needed.

Yes, this would be really boring... fortunately, there's a little more to tanking than permablocking and crying about stamina regen nerfs.

LordTareq wrote: »

The latest nerf was the no-stamina regeneration when blocking change. This forces tanks to not block everything, and preferably use heavy attacks. However this does not help tanking be more fun, on the contrary, tanks will still hold block for most of the time in boss fights for fear of a damage spike killing them, and the lack of stamina/magicka regeneration means due to the change will now struggle to do anything 'extra' even if they want to. Atm it feels like I'm fighting my stamina bar more than the boss I'm tanking.

I rarely hold block "most of the time". Very rarely. I'm too busy keeping up DOTs, throwing heals (obsidian shards), locking down trash, pulling mobs away from ranged players, stunning, snaring, buffing etc.

Somewhere in there, I'll have time for a couple of heavy attacks to help out my resource pool, but I certainly don't just stand around with my shield up my arse.

That said, it is the fear of being hit by a damage spike that keeps me feeling alive. Sure, I know I can block (or survive) most heavy hits, but I can't think of anything more lame than just hiding behind my shield. That's not tanking - that's getting carried.

If you're not putting the work in, then yes, I can see it being really boring. But only because you're doing it wrong.

UrQuan

LordTareq wrote: »

Tanking is also minddumbingly boring imho. Essentially all a tank has to do is taunt -> hold block until taunt is about to run out -> taunt. That is the essence of tanking in ESO, anything else you do is extra but generally not needed.

If that's what your tank is doing, then your tank is terribad and making the dungeon way harder for the rest of the group.

LordTareq

Miszou wrote: »

show previous quotes

LordTareq wrote: »

Tanking is also minddumbingly boring imho. Essentially all a tank has to do is taunt -> hold block until taunt is about to run out -> taunt. That is the essence of tanking in ESO, anything else you do is extra but generally not needed.

Yes, this would be really boring... fortunately, there's a little more to tanking than permablocking and crying about stamina regen nerfs.

show previous quotes

LordTareq wrote: »

The latest nerf was the no-stamina regeneration when blocking change. This forces tanks to not block everything, and preferably use heavy attacks. However this does not help tanking be more fun, on the contrary, tanks will still hold block for most of the time in boss fights for fear of a damage spike killing them, and the lack of stamina/magicka regeneration means due to the change will now struggle to do anything 'extra' even if they want to. Atm it feels like I'm fighting my stamina bar more than the boss I'm tanking.

I rarely hold block "most of the time". Very rarely. I'm too busy keeping up DOTs, throwing heals (obsidian shards), locking down trash, pulling mobs away from ranged players, stunning, snaring, buffing etc.

Somewhere in there, I'll have time for a couple of heavy attacks to help out my resource pool, but I certainly don't just stand around with my shield up my arse.

That said, it is the fear of being hit by a damage spike that keeps me feeling alive. Sure, I know I can block (or survive) most heavy hits, but I can't think of anything more lame than just hiding behind my shield. That's not tanking - that's getting carried.

If you're not putting the work in, then yes, I can see it being really boring. But only because you're doing it wrong.

As a tank you have 2 primary responsibilities. The first one is to keep your teammates alive by having the boss attack you. The second one is to survive so you can do the first one. Any action you take that does not help those 2 primary responsibilities is a luxury. You say a tank that does everything to be as difficult to kill as possible is being carried by his team, I say a tank that focusses on doing damage rather than those 2 primary responsibilities is being carried by his team.

Now, most MMO's have the agro/threat mechanic to keep tanking interesting. A tank needs to use his attacks to keep agro, usually tanks do less damage (which is a bad mechanic btw) but this is compensated by their damage counting as being higher (ay double) for the purpose of threat. Taunts are only emergency tools when you lose aggro. In addition there are usually team support tools where you have the ability to actually help teammembers in need by intercepting damage, changing position with them etc...etc..
ESO lacks the tanking dynamic the agro/threat system brings, but doesn't give an interesting alternative. All in my humble opinion of course.

notimetocare

Tanking is already the mot fun thing in the game. #5 would make it super dull

Forestd16b14_ESO

Lambtron wrote: »

Shortage averted.

I rather have these........

UrQuan

LordTareq wrote: »

show previous quotes

Miszou wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

Tanking is also minddumbingly boring imho. Essentially all a tank has to do is taunt -> hold block until taunt is about to run out -> taunt. That is the essence of tanking in ESO, anything else you do is extra but generally not needed.

Yes, this would be really boring... fortunately, there's a little more to tanking than permablocking and crying about stamina regen nerfs.

LordTareq wrote: »

The latest nerf was the no-stamina regeneration when blocking change. This forces tanks to not block everything, and preferably use heavy attacks. However this does not help tanking be more fun, on the contrary, tanks will still hold block for most of the time in boss fights for fear of a damage spike killing them, and the lack of stamina/magicka regeneration means due to the change will now struggle to do anything 'extra' even if they want to. Atm it feels like I'm fighting my stamina bar more than the boss I'm tanking.

I rarely hold block "most of the time". Very rarely. I'm too busy keeping up DOTs, throwing heals (obsidian shards), locking down trash, pulling mobs away from ranged players, stunning, snaring, buffing etc.

Somewhere in there, I'll have time for a couple of heavy attacks to help out my resource pool, but I certainly don't just stand around with my shield up my arse.

That said, it is the fear of being hit by a damage spike that keeps me feeling alive. Sure, I know I can block (or survive) most heavy hits, but I can't think of anything more lame than just hiding behind my shield. That's not tanking - that's getting carried.

If you're not putting the work in, then yes, I can see it being really boring. But only because you're doing it wrong.

As a tank you have 2 primary responsibilities. The first one is to keep your teammates alive by having the boss attack you. The second one is to survive so you can do the first one. Any action you take that does not help those 2 primary responsibilities is a luxury. You say a tank that does everything to be as difficult to kill as possible is being carried by his team, I say a tank that focusses on doing damage rather than those 2 primary responsibilities is being carried by his team.

Now, most MMO's have the agro/threat mechanic to keep tanking interesting. A tank needs to use his attacks to keep agro, usually tanks do less damage (which is a bad mechanic btw) but this is compensated by their damage counting as being higher (ay double) for the purpose of threat. Taunts are only emergency tools when you lose aggro. In addition there are usually team support tools where you have the ability to actually help teammembers in need by intercepting damage, changing position with them etc...etc..
ESO lacks the tanking dynamic the agro/threat system brings, but doesn't give an interesting alternative. All in my humble opinion of course.

You couldn't be more wrong. The tank's job is to control the battlefield. That includes making sure the boss is where you want him to be, pointed where you want him to point, and attacking the tank. That also means you're controlling adds appropriately (via taunts, snares, roots, etc). That also means you're keeping yourself alive so you can keep doing that (which means heals, blocking when appropriate, applying damage debuffs, applying shields, applying resistance buffs), and helping your teammates accomplish their jobs (this means applying buffs to them - usually the same ones you're buffing yourself with, and contributing to the group DPS). If you're not doing all of that you're a bad tank.

What you described is not a tank holding the boss and doing everything to be as difficult to kill as possible. What you described is a tank holding the boss and doing a terrible job of being difficult to kill (just sitting there holding block means you're not applying buffs/debuffs/heals and you're going to be out of stamina super fast, so you're also relying on your teammates to replenish your stamina so you're draining their resources and preventing them from putting everything toward doing their jobs), while failing to control the battlefield.

What you described is a tank who has no idea how to tank.

Whatzituyah

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lambtron wrote: »

Shortage averted.

I rather have these........

Why not Battlemechs/Omnimechs from battletech?

LadyNalcarya

damtotb16_ESO wrote: »

Few weeks ago i tanked last boss in VDSA as a dps nb maybe 5 min just using dodge roll and vigor, what a joke!

damtotb16_ESO wrote: »

5 min

damtotb16_ESO wrote: »

last boss in VDSA

And this, ladies and gents, shows that this mythical "high dps" that "everyone" presumably has is not a problem, since with 5 minutes on that boss dps clearly wasnt very high (especially for 3 dds). Its just nerfs to mob's damage and skippable mechanics that make the game too easy.
Sorry, its just really funny to see posts telling that every dd has godlike dps and this is why the content is too easy. Yeah, so godlike that everyone was so afraid of group dps meters.
But well, at least they didnt nerf mob damage in vMA and it actually might be a very good sign, I just hope that vMoL wont get nerfed as well. Its also very mechanic-based, I havent tried vet version yet, but even on normal mechanics dont look skippable.

Stalwart385

I was a dedicated tank since beta and I can tell you why I quit.

First there was the group PvE aspect. The only time I actually needed a true tank setup was Trials and Prison. Trials were dead, so the occasional Prison run was the only time I needed to really tank. Everywhere else I would run a dps setup in heavy with a taunt, and even that was overkill most of the time. Then the no stamina regen while blocking change was horrible. It was supposed to make tanking more fun, but it just made it a bar watching game. There were many better ways to improve blocking than just hacking stamina regen out. It became a worthless stat for tanks.

What hit me even harder was how poor a tanky build is in PvP and vMSA. Heavy armor is useless for PvP and vMSA. If I want to run a dungeon with my buddies then go PvP later I have to completely change my spec. I can't put on a heavy dps setup and expect to be competitive. I need to run a light armor setup to have decent chance. Even then magicka DK is still pretty bad in PvP and vMSA.

In the end, if I wanted to be a tanky DK character my only time to shine is in one dungeon people were playing. Everywhere else, the group and myself would have been better off with a different class/role.

If DK's and heavy become more competitive in PvP/vMSA and they make tanking more interactive (less bar watching) I'd come back.

Figured I throw in my two cents.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Whatzituyah wrote: »

show previous quotes

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Lambtron wrote: »

Shortage averted.

I rather have these........

Why not Battlemechs/Omnimechs from battletech?

Cause these come with a free Solid Snake



A Solid Snake and a Metal Gear players be screaming OP in less than a hour.

deleted008293

I think its better to have single target taunt than aoe taunt. Imagine tanking a vdsa... You just throw an aoe taunt here and one there and game over. It will make the game too easy. I think better is to have a skill that break groups of mobs apart... imagine a group of 6 adds... you just break through them and that group of 6 will became 2 or more mini groups easier to target.

newtinmpls

LordTareq wrote: »

Tanking is also minddumbingly boring imho. Essentially all a tank has to do is taunt -> hold block until taunt is about to run out -> taunt. That is the essence of tanking in ESO, anything else you do is extra but generally not needed.

Which brings me to ask what the heck anyone / everyone means by tanking.

I play with a few good friends, not seriously, (though sometimes in other groups /with other players they are more serious than I) and we don't worry so much about "roles" (tank/DPS/healer) as much as role play.

My first attempt at a DK was a dunmer, and it just seemed to make sense to use magicka/destro flame staff. The DK abilities aren't really so much suited to DPS (at least not as easily or intuitively to me, a casual non min-max player) so I pretty much thought of myself as a sort of adjunct to the party. Talons, petrify, chains (works lovely on Grievous Twilights in IC - and for that matter on the occasional irritating NB) can't recall the names of the two destro stave abilities - 1 to knock back and the other to interrupt. So sort of what I do is crowd control - but not so much taunting.

All that being said, I think what I see in non-tanks (in terms of what the comment most positively about with respect to various tanking) is crowd control which often can be 'hold them in place' but there are other aspects of it that are also important.

Wreuntzylla

hrothbern wrote: »

show previous quotes

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

OP, I think you meant to argue that ZoS should make it so that content never requires a tank or healer.

There is a gaming theory that goes something like this. Most players that spend a significant amount of money in a cash shop are solo DPS with limited game time, and strongly prefer to run out and pew pew with at least someone dying before they die, at least some of the time. To prevent disorganized players from being greatly disadvantaged by organized players, a high DPS and low survivability environment is required. Under this model, the population will drop, but it will hit a comfortable level and because most of the remaining players are affluent, the revenue stream will not change.

As applied to this game, the continuous nerfs to healing and tanking over time (HNoT and TNoT) make it clear that ZoS adheres to this theory. This is the way the game has been heading for quite some time as demonstrated by the HNoT and TNoT. Even nightblade tanking, although not talked about much, took a big hit this patch.

This is why I dislike any non-subscription, cash shop model no matter if it is P2W or not. I also dislike non-subscription models without a cash shop, because under that model, issues are rarely or slowly fixed. I don't think this will change much for future games as subscription models don't have the ability to milk the big spenders.

@Wreuntzylla ,
Smile
Do you also apply game theory when you PVP ? swapping different build set ups on the same character behind a costume at a 70/20/10 rate ?
Posts like your one above are rare... and thinking about it, you produce the next (kind of similar angle) in the "So many are furious ...." thread.

Yes, ZOS is applying min-max to her scope of customer profiles.... assessing the total customer value of each customer profile.... and transforming the game towards the highest company value.
How articulated intentional this happens ? No clue.... Many companies do the same from gut feeling alone.
And because ZOS has to grow (grow or wither !), bigger volumes of customers MUST be attracted as well.

The ideal customer profile has players that are loyal (a high retention rate), spend generous crowns, spread a good reputation of the game (low whining/ranting rate).
If all players would be like that AND there would be enough of them, ZOS would make heaps of profit and would from pure risk avoidance behaviour, spend heaps of money as well to get issues fixed fast.
Any customer that fits above customer profile description, whether it is pew-pew in PVP for 1-2 hours, doing a trial with your comrades, some role playing, just some questing to get the daily dust washed away.... should be cherished by ZOS.


100% to the topic:
Tanks are most of the time very responsible and loyal customers !!! (group Healers as well).
So increasing the chance that a DPS pew-pew can have his several moments of glory against stronger/better organised players is certainly very important.

But the way this good purpose is now implemented at the expense of Tanks (healers) is not ok for me. That can be done better !!!

Interestingly, something the model I mentioned doesn't take into account, is that when multiple good healers and/or tanks leave for a different game typically their whole guild follows shortly thereafter. You can kick the loyal players for only so long.

Btw, I typically play a dps, only a healer when my guild needs me to be. Tanks and healers may not be respected by ZoS, but eventually some other company is going to attract the people that make us dps look good and I'm also out of here.

Forestd16b14_ESO

xellink wrote: »

the state of DPS vs Tanks is well demonstrated in this video.

You can watch the whole thing or skip to 2:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqb0EdLP9Uc

Hmm that was extremely one sided and what the hell is the name of it so i can binge it..... WAIT !!!!!...... need to order pizza first.

Sausage

I wish I could queue with my DK Tank when playing my NB, or then give us multiple gear-slots and we can switch between them.

runagate

@ztyhurstub17_ESO I've been wondering if the Tormentor set plus the AoE charge abilities that Templars (one morph) and Werewolves (one morph) have will AoE taunt but can't find anyone with the set to test this and give me an answer.

Huggalump

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

My make tanking more fun list:

1. Make better ways to retrieve stamina in PVE while blocking. If you want to be lazy then just make the no stamina regen while blocking feature a PVP battle spirit thing and let PVE tanks spend time and resources doing something other than getting stamina back.

Hi, noober tank here. I tank as an offspec. I had a bunch of extra skill points, so I threw them into heavy armor and sword/shield. I can do all the 4 man dungeons just fine even though my champion points are set up for pvp dps and I'm a stamina sorcerer.

But my tanking style is pretty basic. I taunt. I hold black. I keep my magic based buffs up. I started tanking after the blocking stamina regen nerf patch... and I couldn't understand what the complaints were about. It was incredibly easy. I've played all the roles, and it's by far the easiest one.

So that's where I get my question. Are other tanks doing a lot more with stamina? Or were you doing more with your stamina before the block nerf patch? If so, I totally support the point I quoted. Tanking right now isn't fun because you just taunt and hold block while playing clash of clans on your phone. Ocassionally you throw some heavy attacks or pick up a Templar shard while your giants move to the next wizard tower.

However, if tanks have always played as passively as me, I think the point I quoted would only make tanking less fun. I'd have nothing to do after my giants break through the walls.

NoMoreChillies

When the devs steer the game towards DPS > everything else, dont be surprised when everyone is DPS.