Radiant Destruction

Tankqull

Ishammael wrote: »

Its a ranged execute that can't be dodged -- only purged. If it did 3-5k/tick it might be reasonable. But its ticking 10k+ on players. People are seriously arguing this isn't OP?

Blah blah blah stacking Thaum + elemental expert. I get it. So change the damage coef on the skill. Or re-work it.

numbers i see using it:
below 2k above 50% health.
<5k between 20 and 40% health (barely the value of an instant attack)
<8k between 10-20% (weakest of all executes actually)
<15k at 9% and below health

you might argue the 15k is to much but who cares when you are below 10% health any even a light attack is going to kill you, and temps need those high dmg values in pve to get their dps in the final phase up to values other classes generate.

so pls @ZOS_GinaBruno change the way dmg is displayed to actual dmg dealt instead of potential dmg dealt, meaning death recaps showing only the last hit not the combnined hits of dots etc. and if a finisher depleted the last 5 HP it is reflected as 5HP and not its possible 12k or what ever.

Bfish22090

l2p and l2los

pmn100b16_ESO

You're mad now? Wait until they get vicious death!

Joy_Division

People have no shame coming on these forums asking for nerfs while mocking others that do the same thing as "casuals ... responsible for dumbing the game down." All the more juicy as many of these same people are running around with dodge-shuffle spam, using a wrecking blow skill that has the highest damage coefficient in the game and stuns and empowers itself and berating others to L2P.

Ishammael

Joy_Division wrote: »

People have no shame coming on these forums asking for nerfs while mocking others that do the same thing as "casuals ... responsible for dumbing the game down." All the more juicy as many of these same people are running around with dodge-shuffle spam, using a wrecking blow skill that has the highest damage coefficient in the game and stuns and empowers itself and berating others to L2P.

Yeah Wrecking Blow has needed attention for a long time. Hard CC, empower, highest coef is ridic.

As an addition: Radiant still goes through Elusive Mist mitigation if you active elusive after you're initially hit w/ radiant.

Lyar09

Joy_Division wrote: »

People have no shame coming on these forums asking for nerfs while mocking others that do the same thing as "casuals ... responsible for dumbing the game down." All the more juicy as many of these same people are running around with dodge-shuffle spam, using a wrecking blow skill that has the highest damage coefficient in the game and stuns and empowers itself and berating others to L2P.

Again I never said to nerf the ability. All I simply said was that it hits too hard and posted a screenshot of the damage. Also, I don't know if you've downloaded the new update and changed your cp, but wb and other stamina based damage abilities are pretty in line when it comes to outrageous numbers.

WillhelmBlack

Yet to be killed by it as I run Purge or Purify on all my characters. Never understood the logic of it ticking harder the more Magicka you have left though, it just encourages stand in the back Templars spamming one button. Now if it was the opposite way round that would make more sense to me that's because if, as a Templar, you've managed to get anyone below 25% health you've done a damn good job and deserve to be rewarded for it.

Minno

Before nerf is called has anyone used this skill in the non-cp? I did.

I used radiant glory last night against enemies ranging from vr16 - vr1. At 75% to mid health the ticks felt like they jumped to the 15% level instantly. Following that was instant death. Normally this skill should be doing 1k at 100%, 4-5k at 40%, and huge 10-15k at 15% or lower. I'll get updated numbers tonight, but it feels the skill is taking off more health than normal.

Keep in mind, non-cp players don't have the health points currently to make this an "apples to apples comparison" nor is the dmg equal to CP centered camps but it feels too high from 100-40%.

I know @Asayre and other templars found the optimal general execute range gor this skill to be from 40% and lower (correct me if I'm wrong). This makes sense as the execute is a channel instead of an instant cast. And as a channel, it shouldn't be dodgeable.

If the health dmg is too high at the 100-40% in cyro, do we nerf it? Do we tag it on another mitigation source? Do we make it non-crit from 30% and above?

Don't blanket this suggestion; there is a solution that doesn't harm pve but provides pvp balance.

Joy_Division

Lyar09 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

People have no shame coming on these forums asking for nerfs while mocking others that do the same thing as "casuals ... responsible for dumbing the game down." All the more juicy as many of these same people are running around with dodge-shuffle spam, using a wrecking blow skill that has the highest damage coefficient in the game and stuns and empowers itself and berating others to L2P.

Again I never said to nerf the ability. All I simply said was that it hits too hard and posted a screenshot of the damage. Also, I don't know if you've downloaded the new update and changed your cp, but wb and other stamina based damage abilities are pretty in line when it comes to outrageous numbers.

Saying it hits too hard is asking for a nerf.

You think screenshots tell the whole story? How about this one:


Nerf camo hunter!

Or ... did camohunter do all that damage because it is the cumulative effect of multiple ticks of standing in a field of caltrops thrown by a stealthed player?

Radiant destruction is a 3 second cast time. Every other skill is instantaneous. How is a screenshot of RD that takes into account the entire 3 second cast time remotely fair? In those 3 seconds I could get off 3 skills + 3 weaved attacks.

I did download the new update and WB still empowers itself, it still not interruptible, still has the highest damage coefficient in the game, and still stuns. I now have access to a star that makes its damage from 9000 to 8000. I personally do not think it is very good game balance that such a high means of burst damage setup goes hand-in-hand with what is probably the best means of damage avoidance in shuffle + dodge on demand. The amount of damage these build can avoid is superior to heavy armor "tanks" and those tank DK builds do zero damage. That is absolutely ridiculous.

You want to argue that a shield stacking sorcerer can mitigate similar damage and also combine it with a ridiculous burst? I'm all on board. That is equally ridiculously stupid.

But that's the way the game is. Ridiculously OP damage that comes with builds that can survive the OP damage in Cyrodiil without being a traditional tank. That's the builds that have dominated Cyrodiil for the past year and everyone but Wrobel knows it. Now all of a sudden magicka templars want to sneak into the ridiculous OP offensive club with the one offensive ability in the game that shuffle-dodge roll spammers fear because the can't just press a button and avoid it like everything else and now all of a sudden this single aspect of the game is a problem and needs to be addressed by ZoS ... without altering any of the other builds that combine high offense + damage avoidance? There have to be powerful counters to shuffle-WB spammers and the shield stackers and why I pretty much stopped publicly complaining about them.

Lyar09

Minno wrote: »

Before nerf is called has anyone used this skill in the non-cp? I did.

I used radiant glory last night against enemies ranging from vr16 - vr1. At 75% to mid health the ticks felt like they jumped to the 15% level instantly. Following that was instant death. Normally this skill should be doing 1k at 100%, 4-5k at 40%, and huge 10-15k at 15% or lower. I'll get updated numbers tonight, but it feels the skill is taking off more health than normal.

Keep in mind, non-cp players don't have the health points currently to make this an "apples to apples comparison" nor is the dmg equal to CP centered camps but it feels too high from 100-40%.

I know @Asayre and other templars found the optimal general execute range gor this skill to be from 40% and lower (correct me if I'm wrong). This makes sense as the execute is a channel instead of an instant cast. And as a channel, it shouldn't be dodgeable.

If the health dmg is too high at the 100-40% in cyro, do we nerf it? Do we tag it on another mitigation source? Do we make it non-crit from 30% and above?

Don't blanket this suggestion; there is a solution that doesn't harm pve but provides pvp balance.

Thank you for this testing. I also did some testing with a friend last night. With a pve spec and empowered, radiant oppression would one shot so to speak(a single channel). I tested with having roughly 19.6k spell resist and 90 points into elemental defender. I simply stood there without any healing being done. If the ability is an execute I don't think it should completely kill you with one channel from full health. I will be doing further testing later.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.

Lyar09

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

People have no shame coming on these forums asking for nerfs while mocking others that do the same thing as "casuals ... responsible for dumbing the game down." All the more juicy as many of these same people are running around with dodge-shuffle spam, using a wrecking blow skill that has the highest damage coefficient in the game and stuns and empowers itself and berating others to L2P.

Again I never said to nerf the ability. All I simply said was that it hits too hard and posted a screenshot of the damage. Also, I don't know if you've downloaded the new update and changed your cp, but wb and other stamina based damage abilities are pretty in line when it comes to outrageous numbers.

Saying it hits too hard is asking for a nerf.

You think screenshots tell the whole story? How about this one:


Nerf camo hunter!

Or ... did camohunter do all that damage because it is the cumulative effect of multiple ticks of standing in a field of caltrops thrown by a stealthed player?

Radiant destruction is a 3 second cast time. Every other skill is instantaneous. How is a screenshot of RD that takes into account the entire 3 second cast time remotely fair? In those 3 seconds I could get off 3 skills + 3 weaved attacks.

I did download the new update and WB still empowers itself, it still not interruptible, still has the highest damage coefficient in the game, and still stuns. I now have access to a star that makes its damage from 9000 to 8000. I personally do not think it is very good game balance that such a high means of burst damage setup goes hand-in-hand with what is probably the best means of damage avoidance in shuffle + dodge on demand. The amount of damage these build can avoid is superior to heavy armor "tanks" and those tank DK builds do zero damage. That is absolutely ridiculous.

You want to argue that a shield stacking sorcerer can mitigate similar damage and also combine it with a ridiculous burst? I'm all on board. That is equally ridiculously stupid.

But that's the way the game is. Ridiculously OP damage that comes with builds that can survive the OP damage in Cyrodiil without being a traditional tank. That's the builds that have dominated Cyrodiil for the past year and everyone but Wrobel knows it. Now all of a sudden magicka templars want to sneak into the ridiculous OP offensive club with the one offensive ability in the game that shuffle-dodge roll spammers fear because the can't just press a button and avoid it like everything else and now all of a sudden this single aspect of the game is a problem and needs to be addressed by ZoS ... without altering any of the other builds that combine high offense + damage avoidance? There have to be powerful counters to shuffle-WB spammers and the shield stackers and why I pretty much stopped publicly complaining about them.

you're comparing a dps ability to an execute. They don't really correlate to each other. I completely agree that there are abilities in the game that need to be relooked at. I personally think that a proced frag hits way too hard as well. But I also realize that is working as intended as far as I know. Radiant isn't working as intended as it can take someone from full health to death with one channel. This testing was done with 19.6k spell resist and 90 points into elemental defender and no healing or buffs. The damage should only be scalable when in execute range and it's not doing that. It takes 3 times as long as the channel with animation canceling to kill someone from full health with executioner.

bikerangelo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.

Minno

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.

Thanks @ZOS_GinaBruno ! Was there also a review of this skill in the non-cp campaign? I'm curious.

Yiko

Yeah, pretty sure the ability needs to be looked at. Almost every templar I saw last night was channeling this ability on an enemy they outnumbered regardless of health. I wonder why that is?

RinaldoGandolphi

My tests with Radiant Destruction show nothing more then the skill not being bugged anymore.

Folks got too used to it being bugged last patch by being dodgeable and being unable to crit over half the time...now that has been fixed...you cna't just spam Vigor + Shuffle and avoid every attack in the game anymore. Sounds fair to me.

I don't even use it that often, but atleast now its not useless.

Lyar09

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

My tests with Radiant Destruction show nothing more then the skill not being bugged anymore.

Folks got too used to it being bugged last patch by being dodgeable and being unable to crit over half the time...now that has been fixed...you cna't just spam Vigor + Shuffle and avoid every attack in the game anymore. Sounds fair to me.

I don't even use it that often, but atleast now its not useless.

What exactly was bugged about it? Also what makes it balanced in it being un dodgeable? Every other execute is dodgeable. Shoot a majority of the times sorcs endless fury/mages wrath doesn't even execute. So why does radiant get to be this one special exception?

Yiko

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

My tests with Radiant Destruction show nothing more then the skill not being bugged anymore.

Folks got too used to it being bugged last patch by being dodgeable and being unable to crit over half the time...now that has been fixed...you cna't just spam Vigor + Shuffle and avoid every attack in the game anymore. Sounds fair to me.

I don't even use it that often, but atleast now its not useless.

Too many people have this asinine mentality.

Radiant destruction executes players of a playstyle I hold a personal vendetta against? Balanced.

Do you know why people complain about dying to radiant? Because there's not enough counterplay.
When people die to any other execute in the game, they feel as if there was something they could have done to live a little bit longer. That's not the case with Jesus Beam. It's the only true *execute* in the game, and it seems to be overtuned in terms of damage.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

So to sum up

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is.

VagabondAngel

Yiko wrote: »

Yeah, pretty sure the ability needs to be looked at. Almost every templar I saw last night was channeling this ability on an enemy they outnumbered regardless of health. I wonder why that is?

Its actually the only skill Templars have that is guaranteed to hit something and do damage at the same time.

Wreuntzylla

I brought the templar out and tooled around a bit with a glass zerg surfing build (~4k SP fully buffed). I was killing maybe 40% with DF + RD. About 30% I had to add another DF. The last 30% continuously interrupted both DF and RD, or avoided in other ways. Ran into one sorc using crushing shock and I had to throw sticks and stones until I changed to a true PvP build.

Although I would have said RD probably needed a tweak , especially in massed battles where you can just jump from low health player to low health player at range, I think most hardcore players are in PvE farming gear atm. About an hour before the end of primetime it goes from shooting fish in a barrel to the normal level of competition. At that point, it's amazing how RD pops one player like a balloon and the next doesn't seem to notice even below 50%.

I'd give it a couple weeks and see how things shake out.

RinaldoGandolphi

Lyar09 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

My tests with Radiant Destruction show nothing more then the skill not being bugged anymore.

Folks got too used to it being bugged last patch by being dodgeable and being unable to crit over half the time...now that has been fixed...you cna't just spam Vigor + Shuffle and avoid every attack in the game anymore. Sounds fair to me.

I don't even use it that often, but atleast now its not useless.

What exactly was bugged about it? Also what makes it balanced in it being un dodgeable? Every other execute is dodgeable. Shoot a majority of the times sorcs endless fury/mages wrath doesn't even execute. So why does radiant get to be this one special exception?

It was bugged last patch that if:

1. if you and another person were using it at the same time it wasn't getting its execute bonus at all.
2. It was hit or miss if the skill would even crit, half the time it couldn't crit.
3. It was dodgeable when it wasn't supposed to be,

Channeled skills have never been dodgeable in this game, never...not even back as when the game came out in April of 2014 channel attacks were never dodgeable. It was bugged with the Wrothgar update of being dodgeable when it was never supposed to be, Lighting and Resto Staffs heavy attacks were also bugged and dodgeable, im glad they fixed it.

bitaken

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I think most hardcore players are in PvE farming gear atm. About an hour before the end of primetime it goes from shooting fish in a barrel to the normal level of competition. At that point, it's amazing how RD pops one player like a balloon and the next doesn't seem to notice even below 50%.

I'd give it a couple weeks and see how things shake out.

What's PvE precious?

You mean there is a zone other than Cyrodil?

Blasphemy!

ku5h

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

It is hilarious that the people defending it are all templar users of radiant destruction. And Akinos I was at 40%. Next time it happens ill shadowplay it for ya. Many people are mentioning the increased damage of this ability and people are spamming it as an opener. The ability was working just fine prior to this patch. Stop being so biased ffs.

Are you an NB?

Yeah?

Thought so...

I think he's a stamplar....might aswell be a nightblade though lol.

All I know is that if 25k is 40% of his health he has more health then anyone I have seen. Thats like what 62k? I guess ive never tried to see how much health I could get.

You do know you can heal in this game, right? So theoreticly he could have stayed at 30% and keep healing for another 100k hp, that doent mean he has 100hp pool.

Mumyo

So u dislike Radiant Destruction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5HXdC8NyIM

Keep in mind that the Dawnbreaker didn't hit me because i was dead allready.

And look at the Vigor i popped to protect myself from burst.

Minno

Yiko wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

My tests with Radiant Destruction show nothing more then the skill not being bugged anymore.

Folks got too used to it being bugged last patch by being dodgeable and being unable to crit over half the time...now that has been fixed...you cna't just spam Vigor + Shuffle and avoid every attack in the game anymore. Sounds fair to me.

I don't even use it that often, but atleast now its not useless.

Too many people have this asinine mentality.

Radiant destruction executes players of a playstyle I hold a personal vendetta against? Balanced.

Do you know why people complain about dying to radiant? Because there's not enough counterplay.
When people die to any other execute in the game, they feel as if there was something they could have done to live a little bit longer. That's not the case with Jesus Beam. It's the only true *execute* in the game, and it seems to be overtuned in terms of damage.

It's not asinine when you think of as the following:

- a channel spell denotes a strong spell. Classic rpg, old ES games, etc use a "charge up" type of animation/mechanic to justify huge amounts of dmg in concentrated amounts.
- dodge roll in ESO allows the player to dodge a large selection of dmg sources. From a practicality standpoint, such a roll would likely dodge single projectiles but if a concentrated burst from a spell that took energy and thinking to focus, it should hit everytime.

- In combay situations, at what part in the priority of dmg does channel fit in if dodge roll negates most channeling? Meaning how can you justify a quick dodge roll instantly ignoring an attack that's taking intense concentration to complete? Short answer is you can't, concentrating equates to aiming and an enemy that properly aims his attack will ALWAYS hit his target.

Flipside you can do the following to break someone's combat focus:

- physically bash a player. Their concentration is interrupted from the shock therefore no spell completed.
- use a spell dedicated to interupting. (Projectile interupts, arrow interupts are classics in RPG games.)
- putting distance helps you keep a player from focusing power to hit you. They can't channel the correct power required if there's too much distance between them. Therefore a channel will break or not work; the energy required for long distances is too high for a Templar in tamreil.
- purge is a unique opportunity. If a channel requires focus, the spell starts to become a condition or an effect. A Templar channels energy around them to focus it into a beam. The beam's attraction is based on the channeling of a specific target. It's likely a Templar is attributing the beam to hit a target that's causing a distraction in the defined area in which he is pulling energy from. Even tamreil must adhere to the science of physics in that there is a transfer of energy, no creation or destruction of it. Therefore a purge works because an enemy is "purging" the targeting energy put on him by the Templar.

Need more?

Wreuntzylla

bitaken wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I think most hardcore players are in PvE farming gear atm. About an hour before the end of primetime it goes from shooting fish in a barrel to the normal level of competition. At that point, it's amazing how RD pops one player like a balloon and the next doesn't seem to notice even below 50%.

I'd give it a couple weeks and see how things shake out.

What's PvE precious?

You mean there is a zone other than Cyrodil?

Blasphemy!

Not sure. But when the group disbands for the night I sometimes read zone chat. They talk about it there.

My friend who does alot of PvE says its ERP with lightning bolts. Which is probably why they talk about it in zone chat.

Yiko

Minno wrote: »

Need more?

OH, GOD. PLEASE, NO. NO.

Zheg

I enjoyed seeing the stam DKs in this thread complaining about Jesus beam. Reflects go down to one, Templars can't purify their own reflected DF projectiles, toppling charge/sweep combo has given Templars PTSD because of how many times it resulted in their death, and the one remaining offensive skill a Templar can use on a DK apparently needs a nerf. Mmk.

None of the numbers I've seen looked bugged, none of the videos posted look bugged.

Unfortunately for nontemplars, even if it was bugged, I think the 85+ page Templar thread where wrobel was torn a new one has put the fear of Jesus Beam into the combat team and they'd be terrified to nerf the skill, at 'least' for another 2 weeks, and then they'll regain their sanity and nerf something like blazing spears again because it's doing more damage than intended.

Wreuntzylla

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

People have no shame coming on these forums asking for nerfs while mocking others that do the same thing as "casuals ... responsible for dumbing the game down." All the more juicy as many of these same people are running around with dodge-shuffle spam, using a wrecking blow skill that has the highest damage coefficient in the game and stuns and empowers itself and berating others to L2P.

Again I never said to nerf the ability. All I simply said was that it hits too hard and posted a screenshot of the damage. Also, I don't know if you've downloaded the new update and changed your cp, but wb and other stamina based damage abilities are pretty in line when it comes to outrageous numbers.

Saying it hits too hard is asking for a nerf.

You think screenshots tell the whole story? How about this one:


Nerf camo hunter!

Or ... did camohunter do all that damage because it is the cumulative effect of multiple ticks of standing in a field of caltrops thrown by a stealthed player?

Radiant destruction is a 3 second cast time. Every other skill is instantaneous. How is a screenshot of RD that takes into account the entire 3 second cast time remotely fair? In those 3 seconds I could get off 3 skills + 3 weaved attacks.

I did download the new update and WB still empowers itself, it still not interruptible, still has the highest damage coefficient in the game, and still stuns. I now have access to a star that makes its damage from 9000 to 8000. I personally do not think it is very good game balance that such a high means of burst damage setup goes hand-in-hand with what is probably the best means of damage avoidance in shuffle + dodge on demand. The amount of damage these build can avoid is superior to heavy armor "tanks" and those tank DK builds do zero damage. That is absolutely ridiculous.

You want to argue that a shield stacking sorcerer can mitigate similar damage and also combine it with a ridiculous burst? I'm all on board. That is equally ridiculously stupid.

But that's the way the game is. Ridiculously OP damage that comes with builds that can survive the OP damage in Cyrodiil without being a traditional tank. That's the builds that have dominated Cyrodiil for the past year and everyone but Wrobel knows it. Now all of a sudden magicka templars want to sneak into the ridiculous OP offensive club with the one offensive ability in the game that shuffle-dodge roll spammers fear because the can't just press a button and avoid it like everything else and now all of a sudden this single aspect of the game is a problem and needs to be addressed by ZoS ... without altering any of the other builds that combine high offense + damage avoidance? There have to be powerful counters to shuffle-WB spammers and the shield stackers and why I pretty much stopped publicly complaining about them.

The recap hints say you should break free and bring a friend. Did you try that?