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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Radiant Destruction
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Itoq✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »But lets not turn this into a WB vs RD fight... WB has its own issues so create a WB thread some where else.
As you probably noticed anyways, I was not the one who brought up WB.
And, as you probably already know, one should not consider individual skills in a vacuum. And one should compare them to other skills (offensive or defensive) when considering how powerful or under-powered that those skills are.
I doubt we know anything of each other, but you are coming across as someone who is trying to shout down other's opinions (hardly something new on the internet or Trump rallies I know.)
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »By the way about 700ish views from saturday to now sunday(thats almost 1k!).... idk about you all but that says something and what the community thinks. Telling 6k-ish players to l2p is another thing entirely. Think about it.
I live in an imaginary world where everyone who views a thread agrees with me as well. So with that in mind....
By the way about 700ish views from Saturday to now(that's almost 1k)... Idk about you all but that says something and what the community thinks. Telling 6k-ish players that bash is to complicated is another thing entirely.
See how silly it sounds? Or did everyone come in to view send you a little private message thanking you for standing up for all those put down by the Jesus Beam? The thread itself seems fairly split with the same posters posting over and over again, on both sides. So the thread it self doesn't even tell us anything.
Except for maybe why people always assume people are making up numbers that support them. Because well sometimes people are making up numbers that support them. Think about it.
Even if 6kish players dont agree, thats 6kish players that feel the need to defend something brah.... So quit pretending. Think about it. Think hard this time.
Right ...silly....thats why i didnt say that but thank for putting in your words into my statement.
Now instead of exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, where it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable(which is by the way is the definition of a logical falllacy) lets get back to where you said "fairly split" as in templars vs everyone else who needs to l2p. Otherwise reread the thread please and thank you
then lets talk about "fairly split" some where else.
Now back to the topic at hand comparing RD to executioner.... i need executioner to be undodgable and ranged so thats about 23 meters please and thank you oh and quite abit more thousands added to the tool tip damage please and thank you
So your arguement is even if 6kish players viewed and agreed that RD was not op, that still means RD is still op?
That is an interesting take.3 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »My tests with Radiant Destruction show nothing more then the skill not being bugged anymore.
Folks got too used to it being bugged last patch by being dodgeable and being unable to crit over half the time...now that has been fixed...you cna't just spam Vigor + Shuffle and avoid every attack in the game anymore. Sounds fair to me.
I don't even use it that often, but atleast now its not useless.
Too many people have this asinine mentality.
Radiant destruction executes players of a playstyle I hold a personal vendetta against? Balanced.
Do you know why people complain about dying to radiant? Because there's not enough counterplay.
When people die to any other execute in the game, they feel as if there was something they could have done to live a little bit longer. That's not the case with Jesus Beam. It's the only true *execute* in the game, and it seems to be overtuned in terms of damage.
Asinine? Channel attacks have never been dodgeable and ZOS has said this over, and over, for 2 years...its intended to be this way. There is plenty of counterplay to Radiant, folks just choose not to use any of them. (Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, Teleport Strike, Bash, Invasion, Crit Charge, Stonefist, Javelin, Crystal Frag, Agony, Rune Cage, Fossilize, Annulment, Hardened Ward, Igneous Shield, Radiant Ward) 16 counters right there alone off the top of my head, all that will stop the caster dead in his tracks.
I have no vendetta against any playstyle. On the contrary i advocated on the PTS to get Impenetrable adjusted because "Stamina Builds" would suffer the most from its OP ness, but i guess im just biased against stamina who are being royally shafted by this....
As an example, I melted a guy with a Gold Vr16 Nirnhoned Lighting Staff the other day. From full health i hit him for 16k total with the 3 pulses from the heavy attack(Channeled) as he was rolling behind the tree he dropped below 20% health and proc Disintegration for another 14k damage....thats 30k burst damage from a Heavy Attack at full health...Jesus Beam has nothing on that....
Channeled attacks have always been the counter to dodge roll, they would be useless if they were dodgeable....since Resto and Lighting Staffs can't weave or medium weave and are a DPS loss mostly they have to have undodgeable Heavy attacks but they can be LOS...RD can be LOS....Resto and Lighting staffs have the same counters. You also can't weave or animation cancel while using channeled abilties...its a trade off.
Im sorry i disagree with you, but i can't see a channeled ability that roots its caster to that location for 3.5 secs and is bashable and interuptable as being OP when its caster is a sitting duck. RD has so many downsides, it needs to atleast be able to kill someone half the time. I don't even use it all that often anyways but just saying.
I'm not bashing any class ability I dislike it because it's channeled I hate the use of channeled abilities... I hated soul strike back in the day, I hate rapid strikes also... I not sure why temps like the fact it channeled it locks you down when you be doing something else... I prefer they give a install cast high burst DPS... ... just feels like cheese to me ...PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables1 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭PainfulFAFA wrote: »This thread is still going lol. Stam builds still QQing over radiant because there is now a decent counter to their 120% dodge chance? Get real. y'all already have the best heal. Yeah I said it, vigor is > then BoL. Here's why: It heals for the same amount or more as BoL, but it heals that over the course of 5 seconds, which frees you up to continue attacking or whatever you wanna do. You never have to stop attacking as stam, which is part of what makes them so strong. If a templar stops attacking to BoL themselves, we get stuck casting BoL 9/10 times until we run out of magicka or until we die.
And before anybody tries to compare, rapid regen / mutagen is garbage compared to the stam heal over time version of BoL, aka vigor.
Get off Radiant Destructions nuts, pl0x.
Vigor is a better heal in terms of cost and keeping it up throughout a fight, but Healing Ward and BoL are the type of heals that will save your ass when you're in execute range.
Also;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rdfC5nMB1s
Honestly man, there way too many things we need to know before we start crying nerf because of that video.
The first thing i would like to know from that video is:
a. What morph of jesus beam is that magplar using?
and
b. What are the stats on that magblade? Especially its mitigation.
If that magplar opens up with an empowered Radiant Oppression (which is the morph that adds dmg in proportion to magicka), with a full resources, i see absolutely no problems in this video. Working as intended.
And considering thats a nightblade, im gonna go off a limb here and say it probably has <20k resistance. Because a templar using 2 dw with Nirn, in 5 light (for extra spell pen), and all CP into Spell Erosion, Elemental Expert, and Elfborn, can and will melt anyone thats not even buffed up.
So overall what you're saying is that an EXECUTE (undodgable and ranged nonetheless) is doing more damage than an EXECUTE should? No execute, no matter what your stats should be able to do that much damage at full HP.
dayum right... drops mic
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AddictionX✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »But lets not turn this into a WB vs RD fight... WB has its own issues so create a WB thread some where else.
As you probably noticed anyways, I was not the one who brought up WB.
And, as you probably already know, one should not consider individual skills in a vacuum. And one should compare them to other skills (offensive or defensive) when considering how powerful or under-powered that those skills are.
I doubt we know anything of each other, but you are coming across as someone who is trying to shout down other's opinions (hardly something new on the internet or Trump rallies I know.)
noooooooo dont bring up that name here
I wouldn't say shutting down opinions, it feels the other way around and i dont feel like quoting the entire thread... but "l2p" against the opposition kinda sums it up.
But about the two skills in a vacuum, if you stand by that statement, then the video posted earlier is creditable because they are both v16 and it took 1 execute skill to get 1 player to almost 40-30ish percent hp. This is from an execute skill.Edited by AddictionX on March 14, 2016 2:33PM0 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »By the way about 700ish views from saturday to now sunday(thats almost 1k!).... idk about you all but that says something and what the community thinks. Telling 6k-ish players to l2p is another thing entirely. Think about it.
I live in an imaginary world where everyone who views a thread agrees with me as well. So with that in mind....
By the way about 700ish views from Saturday to now(that's almost 1k)... Idk about you all but that says something and what the community thinks. Telling 6k-ish players that bash is to complicated is another thing entirely.
See how silly it sounds? Or did everyone come in to view send you a little private message thanking you for standing up for all those put down by the Jesus Beam? The thread itself seems fairly split with the same posters posting over and over again, on both sides. So the thread it self doesn't even tell us anything.
Except for maybe why people always assume people are making up numbers that support them. Because well sometimes people are making up numbers that support them. Think about it.
Even if 6kish players dont agree, thats 6kish players that feel the need to defend something brah.... So quit pretending. Think about it. Think hard this time.
Right ...silly....thats why i didnt say that but thank for putting in your words into my statement.
Now instead of exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, where it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable(which is by the way is the definition of a logical falllacy) lets get back to where you said "fairly split" as in templars vs everyone else who needs to l2p. Otherwise reread the thread please and thank you then lets talk about "fairly split" some where else.
Now back to the topic at hand comparing RD to executioner.... i need executioner to be undodgable and ranged so thats about 23 meters please and thank you oh and quite abit more thousands added to the tool tip damage please and thank you
So your arguement is even if 6kish players viewed and agreed that RD was not op, that still means RD is still op?
That is an interesting take.
It is huh to think about
"wait so if 6kish players are not against it, then 6kish players are for it everyone swarms to (defend/oppose) the clearly OP skill!" ~gotta think outside the box
You guys do need rework tho....its... just *shyly whispers* just.....im not for over performing skills that hit kinda hard at 100 percent hp but its supposed to be an execute... a....and undodgable from a really generous range....Edited by AddictionX on March 14, 2016 2:13PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »My tests with Radiant Destruction show nothing more then the skill not being bugged anymore.
Folks got too used to it being bugged last patch by being dodgeable and being unable to crit over half the time...now that has been fixed...you cna't just spam Vigor + Shuffle and avoid every attack in the game anymore. Sounds fair to me.
I don't even use it that often, but atleast now its not useless.
Too many people have this asinine mentality.
Radiant destruction executes players of a playstyle I hold a personal vendetta against? Balanced.
Do you know why people complain about dying to radiant? Because there's not enough counterplay.
When people die to any other execute in the game, they feel as if there was something they could have done to live a little bit longer. That's not the case with Jesus Beam. It's the only true *execute* in the game, and it seems to be overtuned in terms of damage.
Asinine? Channel attacks have never been dodgeable and ZOS has said this over, and over, for 2 years...its intended to be this way. There is plenty of counterplay to Radiant, folks just choose not to use any of them. (Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, Teleport Strike, Bash, Invasion, Crit Charge, Stonefist, Javelin, Crystal Frag, Agony, Rune Cage, Fossilize, Annulment, Hardened Ward, Igneous Shield, Radiant Ward) 16 counters right there alone off the top of my head, all that will stop the caster dead in his tracks.
I have no vendetta against any playstyle. On the contrary i advocated on the PTS to get Impenetrable adjusted because "Stamina Builds" would suffer the most from its OP ness, but i guess im just biased against stamina who are being royally shafted by this....
As an example, I melted a guy with a Gold Vr16 Nirnhoned Lighting Staff the other day. From full health i hit him for 16k total with the 3 pulses from the heavy attack(Channeled) as he was rolling behind the tree he dropped below 20% health and proc Disintegration for another 14k damage....thats 30k burst damage from a Heavy Attack at full health...Jesus Beam has nothing on that....
Channeled attacks have always been the counter to dodge roll, they would be useless if they were dodgeable....since Resto and Lighting Staffs can't weave or medium weave and are a DPS loss mostly they have to have undodgeable Heavy attacks but they can be LOS...RD can be LOS....Resto and Lighting staffs have the same counters. You also can't weave or animation cancel while using channeled abilties...its a trade off.
Im sorry i disagree with you, but i can't see a channeled ability that roots its caster to that location for 3.5 secs and is bashable and interuptable as being OP when its caster is a sitting duck. RD has so many downsides, it needs to atleast be able to kill someone half the time. I don't even use it all that often anyways but just saying.
I'm not bashing any class ability I dislike it because it's channeled I hate the use of channeled abilities... I hated soul strike back in the day, I hate rapid strikes also... I not sure why temps like the fact it channeled it locks you down when you be doing something else... I prefer they give a install cast high burst DPS... ... just feels like cheese to me ...
Oh we hate it. We depise channels, but ZOS thinks it's a good direction for templars. In pvp the high dmg is the only perk for such abilities and now they are undodgable. I'll accept it but I'd rather have reliable spells other classes take for granted.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭^^
Awesome now we're making progress I think you just summed up every templar feels in this thread
I dont like it either and I know I would love to fight a templar with reliable spells not just a death beam and being the monkey in the middle...Edited by AddictionX on March 14, 2016 2:15PM0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How can anyone keep a straight face and say that this skill isn't overperforming? Blows my mindPainfulFAFA wrote: »This thread is still going lol. Stam builds still QQing over radiant because there is now a decent counter to their 120% dodge chance? Get real. y'all already have the best heal. Yeah I said it, vigor is > then BoL. Here's why: It heals for the same amount or more as BoL, but it heals that over the course of 5 seconds, which frees you up to continue attacking or whatever you wanna do. You never have to stop attacking as stam, which is part of what makes them so strong. If a templar stops attacking to BoL themselves, we get stuck casting BoL 9/10 times until we run out of magicka or until we die.
And before anybody tries to compare, rapid regen / mutagen is garbage compared to the stam heal over time version of BoL, aka vigor.
Get off Radiant Destructions nuts, pl0x.
Vigor is a better heal in terms of cost and keeping it up throughout a fight, but Healing Ward and BoL are the type of heals that will save your ass when you're in execute range.
Also;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rdfC5nMB1s
Honestly man, there way too many things we need to know before we start crying nerf because of that video.
The first thing i would like to know from that video is:
a. What morph of jesus beam is that magplar using?
and
b. What are the stats on that magblade? Especially its mitigation.
If that magplar opens up with an empowered Radiant Oppression (which is the morph that adds dmg in proportion to magicka), with a full resources, i see absolutely no problems in this video. Working as intended.
And considering thats a nightblade, im gonna go off a limb here and say it probably has <20k resistance. Because a templar using 2 dw with Nirn, in 5 light (for extra spell pen), and all CP into Spell Erosion, Elemental Expert, and Elfborn, can and will melt anyone thats not even buffed up.
I have now idea how people can keep a straight face using Radiant. Some of the Templars I play refuse to use it because its so cheesy2 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can't keep a straight face at people asking for a nerf to it.
And I don't even play a Templar anymore!'Chaos6 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »I can't keep a straight face at people asking for a nerf to it.
And I don't even play a Templar anymore!
Sorry don't want to come across that way but balance has to be achieved this is just one of many skills.
Also i just want executioner to be given the same tool tip damage and range not dodgable... and i know no one will agree to it cause it would be over performing.Edited by AddictionX on March 14, 2016 2:25PM0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
How can anyone keep a straight face and say that this skill isn't overperforming? Blows my mindPainfulFAFA wrote: »This thread is still going lol. Stam builds still QQing over radiant because there is now a decent counter to their 120% dodge chance? Get real. y'all already have the best heal. Yeah I said it, vigor is > then BoL. Here's why: It heals for the same amount or more as BoL, but it heals that over the course of 5 seconds, which frees you up to continue attacking or whatever you wanna do. You never have to stop attacking as stam, which is part of what makes them so strong. If a templar stops attacking to BoL themselves, we get stuck casting BoL 9/10 times until we run out of magicka or until we die.
And before anybody tries to compare, rapid regen / mutagen is garbage compared to the stam heal over time version of BoL, aka vigor.
Get off Radiant Destructions nuts, pl0x.
Vigor is a better heal in terms of cost and keeping it up throughout a fight, but Healing Ward and BoL are the type of heals that will save your ass when you're in execute range.
Also;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rdfC5nMB1s
Honestly man, there way too many things we need to know before we start crying nerf because of that video.
The first thing i would like to know from that video is:
a. What morph of jesus beam is that magplar using?
and
b. What are the stats on that magblade? Especially its mitigation.
If that magplar opens up with an empowered Radiant Oppression (which is the morph that adds dmg in proportion to magicka), with a full resources, i see absolutely no problems in this video. Working as intended.
And considering thats a nightblade, im gonna go off a limb here and say it probably has <20k resistance. Because a templar using 2 dw with Nirn, in 5 light (for extra spell pen), and all CP into Spell Erosion, Elemental Expert, and Elfborn, can and will melt anyone thats not even buffed up.
I have now idea how people can keep a straight face using Radiant. Some of the Templars I play refuse to use it because its so cheesy
Being completely honest, my Radiant is only effective outside of execute range against people that use dodge roll spam as their primary defense. Then it is only effective because I ignore their primary defense making them rely on their weaker defenses. Every other kind of build can deal with it unless they are in execute range or being overwhelmed numerically.
There are so many things in this game that kill people quicker than 100% Radianting.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »^^
Awesome now we're making progress I think you just summed up every templar feels in this thread
I dont like it either and I know I would love to fight a templar with reliable spells not just a death beam and being the monkey in the middle...
Well most templars have no issue reducing dmg their OP spells if it's unfair dmg. But only evidence for reducing the dmg are screenshots without mention of low health lvl, random forum posted numbers, a video from a NB's perspective but no mention of specific details (mitigation, magicka lvls, morph tested etc.).
I use the healing morph, and I cannot do the dmg shown in that video (with 30k mahicka 2500 spell dmg). I have to burst down to below 40% mark to even see more than 10k in pvp. Every chance I use this beam on a player at high health results in seeing no visible health reduction.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AddictionX wrote: »^^
Awesome now we're making progress I think you just summed up every templar feels in this thread
I dont like it either and I know I would love to fight a templar with reliable spells not just a death beam and being the monkey in the middle...
Well most templars have no issue reducing dmg their OP spells if it's unfair dmg. But only evidence for reducing the dmg are screenshots without mention of low health lvl, random forum posted numbers, a video from a NB's perspective but no mention of specific details (mitigation, magicka lvls, morph tested etc.).
I use the healing morph, and I cannot do the dmg shown in that video (with 30k mahicka 2500 spell dmg). I have to burst down to below 40% mark to even see more than 10k in pvp. Every chance I use this beam on a player at high health results in seeing no visible health reduction.
The people you use it on are probably fighting back, blocking, or have a damage shield on. Like you normally would in PvP. The skill is only overperforming in the sense that it's now better than when it was not good enough for nearly every templar to forget they had the skill.6 -
Ampnode✭✭✭✭
Jules, I love you.
These templars see proof of it and are literally still defending it. "Oh, must be his super high stats, yeah!" "Staged fight!!" You know, you guys aren't making too good of a name for yourselves with the elitist attitudes.Edited by Ampnode on March 14, 2016 2:54PMPC NA - CP640+
Characters:
Amp - Magicka Nightblade
Amp - Magicka Sorcerer
Amp - Magicka Templar
Amp - Stamina Dragonknight
Amp - Stamina Templar
Amp - Magicka Dragonknight
Amp - Stamina Sorcerer
Amp - Stamina Nightblade4 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »^^
Awesome now we're making progress I think you just summed up every templar feels in this thread
I dont like it either and I know I would love to fight a templar with reliable spells not just a death beam and being the monkey in the middle...
Well most templars have no issue reducing dmg their OP spells if it's unfair dmg. But only evidence for reducing the dmg are screenshots without mention of low health lvl, random forum posted numbers, a video from a NB's perspective but no mention of specific details (mitigation, magicka lvls, morph tested etc.).
I use the healing morph, and I cannot do the dmg shown in that video (with 30k mahicka 2500 spell dmg). I have to burst down to below 40% mark to even see more than 10k in pvp. Every chance I use this beam on a player at high health results in seeing no visible health reduction.
I figured people would say that, yet no one has posted the same countering it only theory crafting some stats up(because unless there is proof i have to take it without hindsight).... There is more evidence against it .... I've called up the bluff many times and raised them...and no one takes it 7k-ish players later...Edited by AddictionX on March 14, 2016 2:53PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »^^
Awesome now we're making progress I think you just summed up every templar feels in this thread
I dont like it either and I know I would love to fight a templar with reliable spells not just a death beam and being the monkey in the middle...
Well most templars have no issue reducing dmg their OP spells if it's unfair dmg. But only evidence for reducing the dmg are screenshots without mention of low health lvl, random forum posted numbers, a video from a NB's perspective but no mention of specific details (mitigation, magicka lvls, morph tested etc.).
I use the healing morph, and I cannot do the dmg shown in that video (with 30k mahicka 2500 spell dmg). I have to burst down to below 40% mark to even see more than 10k in pvp. Every chance I use this beam on a player at high health results in seeing no visible health reduction.
The people you use it on are probably fighting back, blocking, or have a damage shield on. Like you normally would in PvP. The skill is only overperforming in the sense that it's now better than when it was not good enough for nearly every templar to forget they had the skill.
My thoughts/experience exactly and how I hoped my comment would be seen as. Thanks!Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »^^
Awesome now we're making progress I think you just summed up every templar feels in this thread
I dont like it either and I know I would love to fight a templar with reliable spells not just a death beam and being the monkey in the middle...
Well most templars have no issue reducing dmg their OP spells if it's unfair dmg. But only evidence for reducing the dmg are screenshots without mention of low health lvl, random forum posted numbers, a video from a NB's perspective but no mention of specific details (mitigation, magicka lvls, morph tested etc.).
I use the healing morph, and I cannot do the dmg shown in that video (with 30k mahicka 2500 spell dmg). I have to burst down to below 40% mark to even see more than 10k in pvp. Every chance I use this beam on a player at high health results in seeing no visible health reduction.
The people you use it on are probably fighting back, blocking, or have a damage shield on. Like you normally would in PvP. The skill is only overperforming in the sense that it's now better than when it was not good enough for nearly every templar to forget they had the skill.
My thoughts/experience exactly and how I hoped my comment would be seen as. Thanks!
Agreed!
@Manoekin nailed that one!
I don't think i have ever met a Templar that wouldn't trade some of those channelled skills for more instant cast animation cancel friendly abilities.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[snip]AddictionX wrote: »spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »I can't keep a straight face at people asking for a nerf to it.
And I don't even play a Templar anymore!
Sorry don't want to come across that way but balance has to be achieved this is just one of many skills.
Also i just want executioner to be given the same tool tip damage and range not dodgable... and i know no one will agree to it cause it would be over performing.
Let's go to actual substance if we want to. This was your post. It's *** lol worthy. Wrecking Blow, Rally, Crit Charge all one of just many skills. Some people would say they are/were over performing also. Should we nerf them? We shouldn't. They're anomalies for sure. Where's the outrage? People with 2H slotted have good abilities? Why? You're upset that Templars have a good ability, again. I would like to compare it to the sorc execute. It's not the same, but bear with me. You use jesus beam out of execute range because you expect the player to enter execute range during the channel, much like how you throw the sorc execute on someone with the same thinking. The difference being the channel allows Templars to be lazy with it (and that would be my gripe about the skill), whereas Sorcs are freed up to cast a couple of skills to get their target into range for the execute to go off. Similar concepts, but different ways of going about it.
Has anyone tested if Ele and Thaumaturge are still double dipping damage bonuses? Instead of nerfing damage to any skill, how about we see where balance lies when damage bonuses are actually fixed.
As for Jules's video. You're my friend Jules, but it's not accurate. You can make that video for any number of abilities in the game, and you'd probably die a lot faster in many of those. Let me see blab 1v1 a person with a brain using just jesus beam. Literally any class can completely nullify the damage, and it only becomes difficult to deal with when you're outnumbered (as it should).
Also, I just want executioner to be given the same three second channel... and i know no one will agree to it cause it would be under performing. What kind of nonsense is that?
[edited to remove quote and comment]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on March 14, 2016 6:07PM5 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »^^
Awesome now we're making progress I think you just summed up every templar feels in this thread
I dont like it either and I know I would love to fight a templar with reliable spells not just a death beam and being the monkey in the middle...
Well most templars have no issue reducing dmg their OP spells if it's unfair dmg. But only evidence for reducing the dmg are screenshots without mention of low health lvl, random forum posted numbers, a video from a NB's perspective but no mention of specific details (mitigation, magicka lvls, morph tested etc.).
I use the healing morph, and I cannot do the dmg shown in that video (with 30k mahicka 2500 spell dmg). I have to burst down to below 40% mark to even see more than 10k in pvp. Every chance I use this beam on a player at high health results in seeing no visible health reduction.
The people you use it on are probably fighting back, blocking, or have a damage shield on. Like you normally would in PvP. The skill is only overperforming in the sense that it's now better than when it was not good enough for nearly every templar to forget they had the skill.
My thoughts/experience exactly and how I hoped my comment would be seen as. Thanks!
Agreed!
@Manoekin nailed that one!
I don't think i have ever met a Templar that wouldn't trade some of those channelled skills for more instant cast animation cancel friendly abilities.
We can only hope.0 -
PainfulFAFA✭✭✭✭✭
✭spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »I can't keep a straight face at people asking for a nerf to it.
And I don't even play a Templar anymore!
ikr?
I dont even think these people have even played a magplar in pvp. Last patch it was absolutely worthless and the one thing zos fixes, THE ONE THING, is making it undodgeable, as was originally intended many months ago.0 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭Let's go to actual substance if we want to. This was your post. It's *** lol worthy. Wrecking Blow, Rally, Crit Charge all one of just many skills. Some people would say they are/were over performing also. Should we nerf them? We shouldn't. They're anomalies for sure. Where's the outrage? People with 2H slotted have good abilities? Why? You're upset that Templars have a good ability, again. I would like to compare it to the sorc execute. It's not the same, but bear with me. You use jesus beam out of execute range because you expect the player to enter execute range during the channel, much like how you throw the sorc execute on someone with the same thinking. The difference being the channel allows Templars to be lazy with it (and that would be my gripe about the skill), whereas Sorcs are freed up to cast a couple of skills to get their target into range for the execute to go off. Similar concepts, but different ways of going about it.
Has anyone tested if Ele and Thaumaturge are still double dipping damage bonuses? Instead of nerfing damage to any skill, how about we see where balance lies when damage bonuses are actually fixed.
As for Jules's video. You're my friend Jules, but it's not accurate. You can make that video for any number of abilities in the game, and you'd probably die a lot faster in many of those. Let me see blab 1v1 a person with a brain using just jesus beam. Literally any class can completely nullify the damage, and it only becomes difficult to deal with when you're outnumbered (as it should).
Also, I just want executioner to be given the same three second channel... and i know no one will agree to it cause it would be under performing. What kind of nonsense is that?
No, i took it the way i took it ...but thanks for telling me how i took it?(which by the way was not the way i took it lol) I guess standing up for my opinion makes me a tough guy ok lol anyways back to the topic.
Hell yea it's lol worthy and ill legit agree to it give those beams to everyone and the range for the same channeled time.
I'm not upset about templars and their abilities, its one skill and it happens to belong to templars that is all... lets stop the false accusations and im not really upset about the skill either... but thanks again for telling me im upset!
Glad to see the cp thing is being brought into it the thread peoples are making progress
"literally any class can completely nullify the damage" ~Great I'll call your bluff please show it with viable photos, stats, and videos! Many thanks!
[minor edit to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on March 14, 2016 6:09PM0 -
ZOS_CoriJ✭✭✭✭✭Just in reference to the post we removed:
There isn't a problem with references to religion when in context to the game or with the nickname of skills. However, there is a concern when making a mockery of religion, race, and groups in a way that can be read as offensive. While we understand the intention wasn't there, mocking a sermon and/or religious texts can be seen as baiting and otherwise intolerant. We also want to avoid it branching into a discussion of religion which is against our rules. We support a diverse community base and want to be respectful to all players. We also want to keep religious applications outside of forum discussions.
Obviously that isn't the case with the majority of the discussion, but just as a reminder for you folks if you had any questions.
Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
No longer available to take PMs or messages: Please defer to another Moderator1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AddictionX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »By the way about 700ish views from saturday to now sunday(thats almost 1k!).... idk about you all but that says something and what the community thinks. Telling 6k-ish players to l2p is another thing entirely. Think about it.
I live in an imaginary world where everyone who views a thread agrees with me as well. So with that in mind....
By the way about 700ish views from Saturday to now(that's almost 1k)... Idk about you all but that says something and what the community thinks. Telling 6k-ish players that bash is to complicated is another thing entirely.
See how silly it sounds? Or did everyone come in to view send you a little private message thanking you for standing up for all those put down by the Jesus Beam? The thread itself seems fairly split with the same posters posting over and over again, on both sides. So the thread it self doesn't even tell us anything.
Except for maybe why people always assume people are making up numbers that support them. Because well sometimes people are making up numbers that support them. Think about it.
Even if 6kish players dont agree, thats 6kish players that feel the need to defend something brah.... So quit pretending. Think about it. Think hard this time.
Right ...silly....thats why i didnt say that but thank for putting in your words into my statement.
Now instead of exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, where it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable(which is by the way is the definition of a logical falllacy) lets get back to where you said "fairly split" as in templars vs everyone else who needs to l2p. Otherwise reread the thread please and thank you then lets talk about "fairly split" some where else.
Now back to the topic at hand comparing RD to executioner.... i need executioner to be undodgable and ranged so thats about 23 meters please and thank you oh and quite abit more thousands added to the tool tip damage please and thank you
So your arguement is even if 6kish players viewed and agreed that RD was not op, that still means RD is still op?
That is an interesting take.
It is huh to think about
"wait so if 6kish players are not against it, then 6kish players are for it everyone swarms to (defend/oppose) the clearly OP skill!" ~gotta think outside the box
You guys do need rework tho....its... just *shyly whispers* just.....im not for over performing skills that hit kinda hard at 100 percent hp but its supposed to be an execute... a....and undodgable from a really generous range....
It is huh to think about.
Actually the point i was aiming at was that in terms of the skill itself, the view count of a thread means nothing at all. Which is why I originally commented when it was attached to a post as this some how proves some sort of point.
For example, are people looking at the thread because they think Radiant is op? Are they looking because Radiant is swell? Are they looking because Radiant is to weak? Are they looking because it is around the top of the forums(which again proves nothing)? Are they looking because they just watched a video of someone killing 6 people in one Proxy and thought this would be cool too? Are they looking because they have no Idea what Radiant Destruction is? Is this forums like all the others im on that dont track individual new views, but everytime anyone at all clicks the link? So people stalking the thread responding to everyone artificially push the thread count even higher.
Anyway like i said it really has nothing to do with the the power level of radiant so i will let you all continue in your fun.
1 -
Parafrost✭✭✭I've come to the conclusion that most templars see Radiant Destruction as a non execute skill mainly because THEY SPAM IT AT 100%, and mind you this skills executes range is 50% not 5%. I wonder if any of the RD defenders even look at their skill. XXXX damage over 2.9 seconds, target below 50% hp take 330% additional damage. Thats triple the dot damage added with cp. I'd post a vid of this but it would take too long to upload(ps4 user). RD has a 28 meter range AND is undodgeable(ive tried to dodge it many times but still die). Now i had hope this skill is fixed before it hits ps4 because all everyone ever does on ps4(and it seems PC too) is spam that RD and complain about the lack of damage they have. The templars in this thread seem like they spam RD, a execute at 100% instead of its intended 50%. Its meant as a dot so that anyone can outheal it, not die straight from it. Just like executioner and all of the other executes are dodgeable. Thats the mechanic of executes, a skill shot skill not a spam it win it skill.1
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AddictionX✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »By the way about 700ish views from saturday to now sunday(thats almost 1k!).... idk about you all but that says something and what the community thinks. Telling 6k-ish players to l2p is another thing entirely. Think about it.
I live in an imaginary world where everyone who views a thread agrees with me as well. So with that in mind....
By the way about 700ish views from Saturday to now(that's almost 1k)... Idk about you all but that says something and what the community thinks. Telling 6k-ish players that bash is to complicated is another thing entirely.
See how silly it sounds? Or did everyone come in to view send you a little private message thanking you for standing up for all those put down by the Jesus Beam? The thread itself seems fairly split with the same posters posting over and over again, on both sides. So the thread it self doesn't even tell us anything.
Except for maybe why people always assume people are making up numbers that support them. Because well sometimes people are making up numbers that support them. Think about it.
Even if 6kish players dont agree, thats 6kish players that feel the need to defend something brah.... So quit pretending. Think about it. Think hard this time.
Right ...silly....thats why i didnt say that but thank for putting in your words into my statement.
Now instead of exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, where it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable(which is by the way is the definition of a logical falllacy) lets get back to where you said "fairly split" as in templars vs everyone else who needs to l2p. Otherwise reread the thread please and thank you then lets talk about "fairly split" some where else.
Now back to the topic at hand comparing RD to executioner.... i need executioner to be undodgable and ranged so thats about 23 meters please and thank you oh and quite abit more thousands added to the tool tip damage please and thank you
So your arguement is even if 6kish players viewed and agreed that RD was not op, that still means RD is still op?
That is an interesting take.
It is huh to think about
"wait so if 6kish players are not against it, then 6kish players are for it everyone swarms to (defend/oppose) the clearly OP skill!" ~gotta think outside the box
You guys do need rework tho....its... just *shyly whispers* just.....im not for over performing skills that hit kinda hard at 100 percent hp but its supposed to be an execute... a....and undodgable from a really generous range....
It is huh to think about.
Actually the point i was aiming at was that in terms of the skill itself, the view count of a thread means nothing at all. Which is why I originally commented when it was attached to a post as this some how proves some sort of point.
For example, are people looking at the thread because they think Radiant is op? Are they looking because Radiant is swell? Are they looking because Radiant is to weak? Are they looking because it is around the top of the forums(which again proves nothing)? Are they looking because they just watched a video of someone killing 6 people in one Proxy and thought this would be cool too? Are they looking because they have no Idea what Radiant Destruction is? Is this forums like all the others im on that dont track individual new views, but everytime anyone at all clicks the link? So people stalking the thread responding to everyone artificially push the thread count even higher.
Anyway like i said it really has nothing to do with the the power level of radiant so i will let you all continue in your fun.
Yea true dat Thanks! 0 -
myrrrorb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I've come to the conclusion that most templars see Radiant Destruction as a non execute skill mainly because THEY SPAM IT AT 100%, and mind you this skills executes range is 50% not 5%. I wonder if any of the RD defenders even look at their skill. XXXX damage over 2.9 seconds, target below 50% hp take 330% additional damage. Thats triple the dot damage added with cp. I'd post a vid of this but it would take too long to upload(ps4 user). RD has a 28 meter range AND is undodgeable(ive tried to dodge it many times but still die). Now i had hope this skill is fixed before it hits ps4 because all everyone ever does on ps4(and it seems PC too) is spam that RD and complain about the lack of damage they have. The templars in this thread seem like they spam RD, a execute at 100% instead of its intended 50%. Its meant as a dot so that anyone can outheal it, not die straight from it. Just like executioner and all of the other executes are dodgeable. Thats the mechanic of executes, a skill shot skill not a spam it win it skill.
Seems like a dps loss at 100%. However in group play, it will be awesome to use at 100%.
It clearly marks the target for your group to concentrate on, freaks out the target so it makes mistakes, and will burn them fast once your team starts hitting it. And in a team, you are protected somewhat during that long channel.5 -
Parafrost✭✭✭myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »I've come to the conclusion that most templars see Radiant Destruction as a non execute skill mainly because THEY SPAM IT AT 100%, and mind you this skills executes range is 50% not 5%. I wonder if any of the RD defenders even look at their skill. XXXX damage over 2.9 seconds, target below 50% hp take 330% additional damage. Thats triple the dot damage added with cp. I'd post a vid of this but it would take too long to upload(ps4 user). RD has a 28 meter range AND is undodgeable(ive tried to dodge it many times but still die). Now i had hope this skill is fixed before it hits ps4 because all everyone ever does on ps4(and it seems PC too) is spam that RD and complain about the lack of damage they have. The templars in this thread seem like they spam RD, a execute at 100% instead of its intended 50%. Its meant as a dot so that anyone can outheal it, not die straight from it. Just like executioner and all of the other executes are dodgeable. Thats the mechanic of executes, a skill shot skill not a spam it win it skill.
Seems like a dps loss at 100%. However in group play, it will be awesome to use at 100%.
It clearly marks the target for your group to concentrate on, freaks out the target so it makes mistakes, and will burn them fast once your team starts hitting it. And in a team, you are protected somewhat during that long channel.
If they wanted to mark someone, they could use dark flare or that one skill that does X damage after a period of time. Radiant is an execute, a ranged one at that.1 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AddictionX wrote: »No, i took it the way i took it ...but thanks for telling me how i took it?(which by the way was not the way i took it lol) I guess standing up for my opinion makes me a tough guy ok lol anyways back to the topic.
Hell yea it's lol worthy and ill legit agree to it give those beams to everyone and the range for the same channeled time.
I'm not upset about templars and their abilities, its one skill and it happens to belong to templars that is all... lets stop the false accusations and im not really upset about the skill either... but thanks again for telling me im upset!
Glad to see the cp thing is being brought into it the thread peoples are making progress
"literally any class can completely nullify the damage" ~Great I'll call your bluff please show it with viable photos, stats, and videos! Many thanks!
Damage shield, Heal through it, Block, Purge it, Interrupt it.
[snip]
Take yourself up on your own challenge. If you want a ranged, undodgeable execute roll a Templar. I want to see your videos of how well you play it. I doubt it would go well, when you don't even understand the basics of the game claiming you can't counter such an ability.
[edited for flamming]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on March 14, 2016 8:35PM2 -
Parafrost✭✭✭
Damage shield, Heal through it, Block, Purge it, Interrupt it. [snip]
Take yourself up on your own challenge. If you want a ranged, undodgeable execute roll a Templar. I want to see your videos of how well you play it. I doubt it would go well, when you don't even understand the basics of the game claiming you can't counter such an ability.
What he is saying is that you cant dodge it, but thats why its a dot so you can outheal it. Hes saying templars shouldn't be using it at 100%(already a damage loss). It is block-able, but that makes you run out of stam fast. Executioner is weaker than RD on the tool tip and only works at 25% hp while as RD works at 50%. Executioner is dodge-able and can be blocked/healed through. RD is undodge-able but can be blocked/healed through being that it is a dot not a "one shot" kill skill. Now with all the cp changes, this skill is over-performing its uses. The people that say this skill was useless before were the ones who use it at 100% instead of its intended 50% mark execute. Templars has a skill that does damage and heals, and can actually hit pretty hard. In conclusion to what I am saying, templars were never weak and if you want to compare damage, templars outperform Mag dks and templars are supposed to be the support along with DK(which zos is trying to imply by nerfing/not buffing dks damage this patch). If zos wants to follow this format, they should remove the ability to pick any weapon you want and make it class specific, since that's what it seems they are trying to outlay for this game. Also remove shield stacking and healing from all classes and make it only for templars. Would anyone want this? No, but would it be balanced? Maybe. The idea of choice is gone for this game. ATM its about finding the best written build and using it, making this once unique game generic.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on March 14, 2016 5:51PM1
This discussion has been closed.