Dear God Templars are BAD.

SeptimusDova

James roll a Sorc!!!

AfkNinja

No disrespect to anyone in this thread.

When evaluating a classes actual strength you need to eliminate as many variables as possible. Posting videos of cherry picked fights proves absolutely nothing except that someone won a fight.

Because of the way skill factors into this game it's not so easy to pop in here and make a broad proclamation that "Templar's are fine cause I slay with mine." Do you even realize your argument is invalid before you even post it?
I guarantee you Blabafat is a fantastic player and it doesn't matter WHAT class he's using he's gonna wreck face. Because you cannot eliminate player skill in these fights you can not use these fights as a measuring stick.

The only way to objectively compare classes would be for two classes running identical stats and equal skill to fight it out. However this test is also impossible as there is no real way to say for certain that someone is the exact same skill level as you. So once again this argument is also invalid.

The issue we Templar's have is it just takes more EFFORT on Templar. No one is saying you'll never kill anyone with a Templar. You have to admit tho most of the people in those "cherry picked" fights are terrible players. Beating a terrible player means nothing. Magic Templar's are pretty good at being glass cannons with this new patch, Stamplars are lagging but I think fixes are coming in a few months.

Just comparing skills and passives how can anyone argue Templar isn't in last place? We can't even defend our "house" yet that's what all of our changes will be aiming towards?

I'm glad that a lot of you can make Templar work, I can too, but we are not advocating these changes purely for ourselves, I am advocating for the average Templar that sucks at this game and isn't part of the elite 1% Bad-asses in the game. These people can not PVP on a Templar cause without heavy investment and skill Templar is just bad in pvp period. You're basically telling all these Templar that they have to wait till they are V16 with gold gear and 501 CP before they can pvp...


You wanna supply some real data? Because we can not eliminate variables we need much much larger sample sizes for data. Throw up a screen shot of your kills so we can see how effective you are vs other classes with a HUGE sample size. We need data for both Magica and Stamina please.

We are all passionate about this game or we wouldn't be arguing. @blabafat would you be willing to post your kills for us please on your Magic Templar? I'd love to see your success rate.

Takllin

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3TW-Z3EGmo

Check out this man's videos.

They aren't awful, your exaggerating hard.

hahaha this is a joke video right? Do you really want me to list what is wrong here?

He's got lots of videos, like I said, go through them, I linked that one as it was his most recent because directly linking to channels doesn't work.

You asked for youtube videos, I'm giving them to you because you can't do a simple google search. Now you want to disqualify ones that have proved you wrong, because you don't like something about them? topkekm8

Blabafat is one of the best Magicka Templar players in ESO, in dueling and small scale.

Your argument about wanting someone to duel you on a Magicka Sorc is irrelevant to how good or bad a Templar is.

My gripe whenever someone points to blab being successful on temp (and he certainly is) is that it's almost always in small scale scenarios and mostly removed from lag. That's not how most Templars pvp. Lag is ever-present, and Templars are affected more than any other because of how casts/channels function in lag. I can handle most 1v1 on my Templar when not on group heal spec, but throw in lag and a keep fight where 3 bombard casts are going out for every one of my purifys and blabs videos start to lose relevance.

Now throw in next patch where rapids nerf impacts Templars more than any other class, purify no longer working on projectiles, and fasallas guile making our class defense (healing) at least 50% weaker and we have a problem Houston.

How do most Templars PvP? Spamming BoL/Heals?

Lag doesn't just affect Templars though, and this doesn't make them bad like the OP is arguing. If your going to argue what class is the worst in lag, Sorc wins easily.

Personally I have no more trouble on my Templar during lag, than I do on any other character. Half the time I'm using Bombard, I can't even tell if it's working or going off. Same goes for the majority of skills.

Notice how whenever someone tries to argue that Templars aren't as bad as some would like you to think, the goalposts change?

Abeille

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

My first character was a templar. I remember everyone on the forums yelling for templar nerfs. I switched to DK. Then they screamed for DK nerfs and now my DK is no longer viable. So I rolled a nightblade and Ive been happy with that class. So now everyone is yelling for nightblade nerfs.

We know who to blame, guys! GET HIM!

*grabs torches and pitchforks*

yelloweyedemon

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

My first character was a templar. I remember everyone on the forums yelling for templar nerfs. I switched to DK. Then they screamed for DK nerfs and now my DK is no longer viable. So I rolled a nightblade and Ive been happy with that class. So now everyone is yelling for nightblade nerfs.

So you openly admit you're what's wrong with ESO!

Guys get him!

SeptimusDova

Yes he was the Templar on the wall at Launch with Shield/shards/harness magic/spear.. GET HIM !!!!!!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

SeptimusDova wrote: »

James roll a Sorc!!!

I actually have a VR9 Sorc hehe.

SeptimusDova

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

James roll a Sorc!!!

I actually have a VR9 Sorc hehe.

Yes class balance upcoming Sorcs DB 2016

Quantact

I am a person that plays almost nothing but Templars because I love the Healer role and am not hugely interested in anything else. My DPS is a Stamplar, and while I know Sorcs are better, I like the way Repentance and Magicka jabs can heal you while attacking.

Nerfing Breath of Life in my opinion was a very bad move because it made being Healer much more difficult, but I think I'll manage with the new style.

Templars will never truly suck because they are the class of choice for healers. I know there are plenty of ways to heal in this game, but I am not sure what skill trees have a better set up for that than those of the Templar. Restoring Light is great for that, particularly. Now I understand people like other classes, and that's fine. But there ARE those of us out there who love Temps, and we quite certainly don't think the class sucks at all.

Rakkul

Not to mention Wrobel's templar vision for templar. An "immovable" class that "protects their house", in a game with action-based combat.

Maybe Wobble was thinking of a mobile home.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Rakkul wrote: »

Not to mention Wrobel's templar vision for templar. An "immovable" class that "protects their house", in a game with action-based combat.

Maybe Wobble was thinking of a mobile home.

Maybe he meant more like a templar is a trailer park?

Mojmir

Vatter wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

Perhaps the OP should enlighten the developer staff with his infinite game designing wisdom? Perhaps even try to explain why they are so bad, and what possibly could be done to make them better?

Someone who judges others so harshly as the OP does, better have the background that puts weight to his claims. Else it's just another infuriating little kid on the room that spits curses at the screen.

moesmaker wrote: »

Nothing wrong with my templar, maybe I play another game?

OP, please enlighten me with the facts on which you base your rant.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209652/why-templar-is-the-worst-designed-class-in-eso-long/p1

Are you 2 seriously saying that you have never seen the hundreds of threads about how awful the templar is?

Just in case they didn't see it,theres only 60+ pages of input lmao

BRogueNZ

Takllin wrote: »

How do most Templars PvP? Spamming BoL/Heals?

Lag doesn't just affect Templars though

Ok if your spamming heals I agree.

Anything else though, thanks to channeling/ cast time (including jabs) and just plain mobility, lag does affect the templar.

If you have actually played a templar which I suspect not (unless you live in NA) youd think other wise.
Casting a dark flare without it just plain missing due to postion changes or jabbing/ WB some one up close when the enemy is playing at 100-150ms while you are 300-350 can be just plain useless.

Granted not only the templar is affected by this but again long cast times and channelled abilitities exaggerate the issues the class has.

Some days I feel like a god other days like its my first day in cyrodil. I think were a strong class don't get me wrong but in the right conditions and situations, outside of that unless your tanked up and have more health than magicka (thus gimped for full damage potential) your just cannon fodder .

harrlockk616

hunthordeub17_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

But rest assured, the solutions they are coming up with are not really addressing the issues (Bugged skills? Low mobility? Better increase the dps on one of the slow-casting skills!).

The lack of mobility (especially Magicka builds) is my number one complaint. It makes me not want to play my Templar.

Give this person a cigar! that is also my biggest complaint also . second is r skill's and passive's need some work done.

Zheg

Takllin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3TW-Z3EGmo

Check out this man's videos.

They aren't awful, your exaggerating hard.

hahaha this is a joke video right? Do you really want me to list what is wrong here?

He's got lots of videos, like I said, go through them, I linked that one as it was his most recent because directly linking to channels doesn't work.

You asked for youtube videos, I'm giving them to you because you can't do a simple google search. Now you want to disqualify ones that have proved you wrong, because you don't like something about them? topkekm8

Blabafat is one of the best Magicka Templar players in ESO, in dueling and small scale.

Your argument about wanting someone to duel you on a Magicka Sorc is irrelevant to how good or bad a Templar is.

My gripe whenever someone points to blab being successful on temp (and he certainly is) is that it's almost always in small scale scenarios and mostly removed from lag. That's not how most Templars pvp. Lag is ever-present, and Templars are affected more than any other because of how casts/channels function in lag. I can handle most 1v1 on my Templar when not on group heal spec, but throw in lag and a keep fight where 3 bombard casts are going out for every one of my purifys and blabs videos start to lose relevance.

Now throw in next patch where rapids nerf impacts Templars more than any other class, purify no longer working on projectiles, and fasallas guile making our class defense (healing) at least 50% weaker and we have a problem Houston.

How do most Templars PvP? Spamming BoL/Heals?

Lag doesn't just affect Templars though, and this doesn't make them bad like the OP is arguing. If your going to argue what class is the worst in lag, Sorc wins easily.

Personally I have no more trouble on my Templar during lag, than I do on any other character. Half the time I'm using Bombard, I can't even tell if it's working or going off. Same goes for the majority of skills.

Notice how whenever someone tries to argue that Templars aren't as bad as some would like you to think, the goalposts change?

Yes, most templars in pvp are healers, that's hardly a secret, but not all of them. Stamplars have obvious issues that I'm sure you're well aware of when compared to stamina versions of the other classes. I never said I agree with the chicken little approach to labeling templars as the worst, but I certainly agree that they are far from being at a point where rose-colored glasses should be donned.

For magplars, the point was in reference to how blab plays and the skills he uses. They won't function in lag. You posting a video of someone using skills I can't even get to fire off in lag because they are channels/ground targeted does not a strong argument make. Yes, all classes struggle in lag, but because of the very nature of a majority of templar skills, they're afflicted more than the others. I've played both magicka and stam sorc, and no, I don't agree that they are worse off in lag. The sheer volume of channels and casts that templar has makes it the easy winner of that sad competition.

Do you know why you don't have trouble on your templar during lag? Because you're stamplar and using minimal class skills and mostly weapon skills. When you try popping off dark flares (that can no longer be double reflected or purified next patch, where the reflect probably won't even animate in lag and kill you) and fail miserably, or try to toss out a single blazing spear and the skill won't even land much less animate, then we can revisit this discussion.

Firerock2

If you don't like the Templar and are dissatisfied then reroll or quit. It's the only way to get the message across. Constructive criticism of the class only brings us nerfs.

Animal_Mother

Templars are GREAT!

How many outher classes do so much damage with their damage multiplier (Backlash) that the devs decided we must be taxed twice on returned damage? Yes. Our damage done to an opponent under Backlash is first reduced by armor and resistances; then when Backlash fires off the resulting damage is reduced again. TOO MUCH POWER!

Nothing stops our heals through walls. NOTHING! Stones cannot stop us from healing. STONE is weak like MUDCRABS.

We need no AREA CC. NONE. Let the puny DKs have thier Talons. Let the sissy NBs run and hide using their Aspect of Terror and Cloak. TAKE IT LIKE A TEMPLAR! THEY CAN'T!

We got..

We got..

We got SHIELDS. Not like those Sorc shields. OURS ARE CAPITALIZED IN THIS POST. Cuz they use HEALTH. Thus BETTER. Templar SHIELDS, ÜBER ÄLLES!

RUNES. The writing is on the ground. NOTHING GETS BY RUNES! NOTHING!

And JABS. We got Jabs. Everyone wants Jabs. But only we got 'em. JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY.

Templars are so good, we have an extra long GDC. Cuz we are too STRONG! We can beat you with are hands tied behind our back just by using Toppling Charge. The BEST charge in the game. How many other classes have this BUILT IN handicapping FEATURE.

tldr: TEMPLARS RULE!

Akinos

Animal_Mother wrote: »

Templars are GREAT!

How many outher classes do so much damage with their damage multiplier (Backlash) that the devs decided we must be taxed twice on returned damage? Yes. Our damage done to an opponent under Backlash is first reduced by armor and resistances; then when Backlash fires off the resulting damage is reduced again. TOO MUCH POWER!

Nothing stops our heals through walls. NOTHING! Stones cannot stop us from healing. STONE is weak like MUDCRABS.

We need no AREA CC. NONE. Let the puny DKs have thier Talons. Let the sissy NBs run and hide using their Aspect of Terror and Cloak. TAKE IT LIKE A TEMPLAR! THEY CAN'T!

We got..

We got..

We got SHIELDS. Not like those Sorc shields. OURS ARE CAPITALIZED IN THIS POST. Cuz they use HEALTH. Thus BETTER. Templar SHIELDS, ÜBER ÄLLES!

RUNES. The writing is on the ground. NOTHING GETS BY RUNES! NOTHING!

And JABS. We got Jabs. Everyone wants Jabs. But only we got 'em. JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY, JABBY.

Templars are so good, we have an extra long GDC. Cuz we are too STRONG! We can beat you with are hands tied behind our back just by using Toppling Charge. The BEST charge in the game. How many other classes have this BUILT IN handicapping FEATURE.

tldr: TEMPLARS RULE!

L O L !

b92303008rwb17_ESO

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. [snip]


[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

I blame @Wrobel .

Nerouyn

Dear Azura this is silly and an affront to your glory.

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. [snip]


[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

Who amongst the Aedra are responsible for designing the original poster? Seriously, by far the worst designed poster on any forum I have ever visited.

*tongue in cheek*

Being serious - this post is just ranty and non-specific. Temps are my (close) second favourite prof and trying to claim they're the worst designed class you've ever played is bizarre. Cos when professions are genuinely broken people don't play them.

Did you play World of Warcraft at launch? On PvP servers warlocks were a very rare species because they were so badly broken. They had a single defence - an easily interruptible fear. So the best thing to do when attacked was just DoT as many enemies as you could in the few seconds before your inevitable death. It was so bad the developers eventually had to overcompensate and make them ridiculously OP to get their numbers back up.

When they were broken they were an extremely rare species. On 60 person raids, about half the time I was the only warlock and the other half we had one more. That was pretty typical for PvP servers. That's what bad design looks like.

Flameheart

Why, on earth, is it always the paladin like classes in MMOs, which flood the forums with tears ?

Same procedure in every MMO I played yet, be it Everquest, WoW, SWTOR (Jedi Knight) or LOTRO (Captain)...

Sometimes I think the issue is not the class, but the type of player, but ok, just a personal opinion :-)

threefarms

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We are fine with threads with criticism of classes and builds however, as has already been stated, we would appreciate that these threads stay constructive and aren't posted simply to flame and bash.

Since the opening statement there has been the discussion of the topic of this thread has been a huge improvement so we would like to keep this thread open for discussion of the class. However this is just a reminder that attacks on people, zos or players, are not tolerated on the forums. This provides no contribution to the discussion of player class.

As an additional note and reminder, threads "Locked for Review" are locked for a review of content and are not permanently locked.

Thank you for your understanding.

Oh, shut up!

Callous2208

Flameheart wrote: »

Why, on earth, is it always the paladin like classes in MMOs, which flood the forums with tears ?

Same procedure in every MMO I played yet, be it Everquest, WoW, SWTOR (Jedi Knight) or LOTRO (Captain)...

Sometimes I think the issue is not the class, but the type of player, but ok, just a personal opinion :-)

Lol, you called templar a paladin type. I think if it actually were that, people wouldn't be so up in arms. I don't know what to classify this travesty as anymore.

AfkNinja

Flameheart wrote: »

Why, on earth, is it always the paladin like classes in MMOs, which flood the forums with tears ?

Same procedure in every MMO I played yet, be it Everquest, WoW, SWTOR (Jedi Knight) or LOTRO (Captain)...

Sometimes I think the issue is not the class, but the type of player, but ok, just a personal opinion :-)

So I see that you think Templar's are fine and we are all just crybabies. Fair enough but let's see your numbers in PVP. Post a screenshot of your build and your kill numbers. Show us how effective you are on your Templar, aka PROVE IT. Surely if we are imagining how bad Temp is your own numbers must be fantasic, you must kill at least 3-1 right? RIGHT?

No one is arguing about PVE cause a blind monkey can PVE in this game.