Dear God Templars are BAD.

Abeille

Selstad wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

Perhaps the OP should enlighten the developer staff with his infinite game designing wisdom? Perhaps even try to explain why they are so bad, and what possibly could be done to make them better?

Someone who judges others so harshly as the OP does, better have the background that puts weight to his claims. Else it's just another infuriating little kid on the room that spits curses at the screen.

moesmaker wrote: »

Nothing wrong with my templar, maybe I play another game?

OP, please enlighten me with the facts on which you base your rant.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209652/why-templar-is-the-worst-designed-class-in-eso-long/p1

Are you 2 seriously saying that you have never seen the hundreds of threads about how awful the templar is?

I've seen the threads ever since day 1 of release. That's not the point though, the OP is talking about how bad the developers are and how they should be fired for how templars are, something that indicates that he himself think he knows how it should be, how else can you say someone should be fired for doing a bad job? You clearly have to know a lot about game development in order to judge other game developers so harshly.

This thread isn't constructive, and as such gets non-constructive answers. I'd say we're on topic then

I don't think ZOS would take OP's feedback into consideration, though. They didn't post on the existing templar threads, and they have a lot of constructive feedback in them.

A lot of people think that the developer has to answer the thread for them to see the problem. I agree that they should at least give some feedback, but the forum's existence alone should be proof enough that they read the feedbacks that come in, only that they have to be constructive. The problem is that most of the time they don't have anything exact to come up with, per example the templar train bot problem, they didn't say too much but a GM I spoke to said that the developers was using up a medium sized farm of coffee beans per day trying to figure out what to do about the problem.

I don't think people understand the time and effort that goes into producing a game, especially an ongoing MMO. Do you want the developers to come up with solutions and balancing things out as best they can, or do you want them to spend their time on the forums, answering the same questions over and over again?

I want them to take our feedback into consideration, that's all.

Judging by the latest changes on PTS, they are not doing that. The little feedback they take into consideration is being misused. A good example is the BoL nerf. Somehow, after "watching a few streamers" (yes, they said that, but I'm on mobile right now so going after the exact quote would take too long), they took the feedback that "BoL needs a line of sight limitation so people won't heal through walls in Cyrodiil" and somehow made that into "Better make BoL heal one less target but not cost any less magicka".

Not to mention Wrobel's templar vision for templar. An "immovable" class that "protects their house", in a game with action-based combat.

I won't go into detail because, as I said, I'm on mobile right now. But rest assured, the solutions they are coming up with are not really addressing the issues (Bugged skills? Low mobility? Better increase the dps on one of the slow-casting skills!).

I don't want them to answer the same questions over and over. I want them to answer at least once, and to at least say that they will review Wrobel's "immovable templar" vision to see if it fits an action-based combat and if it matches the player's wishes for the class.

The problem as I see it, is that the developer's overall vision and what they consider the best moves, doesn't necessarily coincide with what the players think should be done. I just returned to ESO, I played it in the beginning, but after some months I left due to the game not being what I wanted of it.

When I returned, I saw that they've made numerous changes to the game. They've changed how things are displayed, clarified what does what, tweaked the massive imbalance in difficulty on several places, understood that Craglorn was a mistake (forced grouping; bad idea) and numerous smaller changes to their game, making the game feel less blocky and more fluent.

So they do make changes, and they do listen to feedback, far more than many other game companies I've seen (such as EA and Ubisoft, and the ever so arrogant Blizzard). That however doesn't necessarily mean you agree with what they're doing and how they are doing things, and in your view it doesn't address the underlying issue, that's fine. But if you do disagree on it, at least it has to be constructive and well written to address the underlying issue, and how it might be changed. The OP doesn't do any of that, he just tells the developers to find another line of work because they don't know what they're doing. That's neither constructive nor helpful.

And because they made changes based on feedback in the past, people didn't give up on Templars just yet. We still have hope that they will rethink the "immovable templar" thing. Well, some of us do, at least.

I do not agree with the way the OP put it, but I can understand the frustration when there is no lack of quality feedback regarding Templars, feedback that is met with silence. And the silence can make people wonder why even bother with writing and posting feedback at all if they so not seem to be listening.

In the official templar feedback thread, lots of us said we would be happy with a /lurk. Feeling that our concerns are being ignored is worrying.

I still think that they will drop the "immovable templar" vision eventually, which is why I persist. ZOS just can take a while to admit that their original vision isn't the best for the game, like happened with text chat on console.

Cherryblossom

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. Whoever is responsible for creating this pile of **** has no business in the gaming industry. Absolutely none what so ever. Please resign from your position and consider working at a car wash or something. The gaming industry is just not for you.

each to their own, I quite like my Templar and have played her more than all my others.

Whilst Templar is not as good as all the other classes, it's not a bad class just needs a little attention.
It is a shame they are going to nerf the best healing skill though.

jzholloway

I love my Templar.. and I'm stamina based

Sausage

Obvious troll is obvious.

rfennell_ESO

and in reality land, the most common fotm being leveled up now is a templar.

harrlockk616

I love my Templar! But there are too many BUG'S in my house . By bugs I mean ability not working

blabafat

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. Whoever is responsible for creating this pile of **** has no business in the gaming industry. Absolutely none what so ever. Please resign from your position and consider working at a car wash or something. The gaming industry is just not for you.

Who is responsible for making this thread? Seriously, by far the worst, pointless Templar thread in any subforum I have ever seen. Whoever is responsible for creating this useless thread has no business on the forums. Absolutely none what so ever. Please resign from your position and consider making threads on a different game's forums or something. The ESO forums is just not for you.

....

You made a post calling out ZoS and saying Templar is the worst designed class in any game you have ever played. Unless you give reasons, which you didn't, this thread is just saying what others (with the same opinion) have repeatedly stated in many other threads. In that case, it's a waste.

SeptimusDova

We will see the changes soon. Until then I will do some writs say hi to people and not expect much. Vatter I am glad to see your back. Welcome back. Head over to the PTS and check out the patch notes.Start collecting your mats it looks like a gear change will be in order.

Lightninvash

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. Whoever is responsible for creating this pile of **** has no business in the gaming industry. Absolutely none what so ever. Please resign from your position and consider working at a car wash or something. The gaming industry is just not for you.

I think this is a l2p issue I main as a Templar healer( my dps sucks) and I manage to survive in pvp even take out those pesky nb gankers from time to time. half the time if someone comes up on me and tries to take me on they end up running away if they can get away(depending on the skills I have slotted at that time.) Templars aren't by far the best but if you play them right they are ok in pvp and hard to die in PVE

ZOS_CoriJ

We are fine with threads with criticism of classes and builds however, as has already been stated, we would appreciate that these threads stay constructive and aren't posted simply to flame and bash.

Since the opening statement there has been the discussion of the topic of this thread has been a huge improvement so we would like to keep this thread open for discussion of the class. However this is just a reminder that attacks on people, zos or players, are not tolerated on the forums. This provides no contribution to the discussion of player class.

As an additional note and reminder, threads "Locked for Review" are locked for a review of content and are not permanently locked.

Thank you for your understanding.

Callous2208

Temps are fine while leveling and in most instances of the game. You really don't see the glaring flaws until end game. Stamina is really bad when you get to that point.

BlackEar

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We are fine with threads with criticism of classes and builds however, as has already been stated, we would appreciate that these threads stay constructive and aren't posted simply to flame and bash.

Since the opening statement there has been the discussion of the topic of this thread has been a huge improvement so we would like to keep this thread open for discussion of the class. However this is just a reminder that attacks on people, zos or players, are not tolerated on the forums. This provides no contribution to the discussion of player class.

As an additional note and reminder, threads "Locked for Review" are locked for a review of content and are not permanently locked.

Thank you for your understanding.

We would appreciate an official reply on the constructive thread with 80 pages of feedback. Since we are only met with silence when giving you constructive feedback, it is not all surprising that some people start to try another approach.

Sa0n

It seems to be a common trend in the ESO community to make characters completely suck at all other aspects but one. How about survivability and balance? Would you give away your fingers to gain superhuman strength?

Zheg

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We are fine with threads with criticism of classes and builds however, as has already been stated, we would appreciate that these threads stay constructive and aren't posted simply to flame and bash.

Since the opening statement there has been the discussion of the topic of this thread has been a huge improvement so we would like to keep this thread open for discussion of the class. However this is just a reminder that attacks on people, zos or players, are not tolerated on the forums. This provides no contribution to the discussion of player class.

As an additional note and reminder, threads "Locked for Review" are locked for a review of content and are not permanently locked.

Thank you for your understanding.

Or, you know, ZOS could maybe start to ask themselves if there's maybe a problem causing all of this raw anger and address it. In fact, there are two problems, terrible balance decisions and a stubbornly consistent lack of dialogue from ZOS. Take your pick, at this point I'd be happy if you worked on either.

nimander99

Dood w/e, Templars are WAY to OP and need further nerfs beyond whats coming with Thieves Guild. I mean seriously, I can still kill Mud Crabs, Helooooooooo Mud Crabs! Unacceptable, NERF NOW!

GreenGhostMan

Aren't they buffing templar DPS in TG patch?
BOL is the only nerf coming, right?

(not being sarcastic, honest questions)

Sheezabeast

Templars are versatile. I am a mag temp and I can solo resources in PVP, I heal or dps in vet dungeons, I help with resource management for my party and myself...I don't see huge flaws. Do we have flaws? Yes. Can they be worked around? Yes.

bikerangelo

GreenGhostMan wrote: »

Aren't they buffing templar DPS in TG patch?
BOL is the only nerf coming, right?

(not being sarcastic, honest questions)

Also not being sarcastic.

Purifying Ritual was nerfed.
Puncturing Sweeps was stealth nerfed.
Channeled Focus was nerfed.
Toppling Charge still bugged and broken.
Eclipse was made worse (so essentially nerfed).
Backlash was poked at (but still bad and highly situational).
Radiant Ward was given a laughable buff.
Radial Sweep was also given a laughable buff.
Dark Flare was buffed but didn't need it (it'll probably be reverted after a week on live).
Major Mending was added (also really the only buff to stamina templars).
And magic templar mobility was severely nerfed due to the Major Expedition changes and Rapid Maneuvers changes.

I probably missed a few, but that's the general idea.

EDIT: I play both stam and magic and enjoy them both, and I think that aside from the persistent bugs they can and are very competitive, but lately ZOS has been rather cold blooded towards the class which is putting everyone on edge.

Zheg

GreenGhostMan wrote: »

Aren't they buffing templar DPS in TG patch?
BOL is the only nerf coming, right?

(not being sarcastic, honest questions)

Eclipse (though touted as a buff) is a nerf on one morph, and a bad new morph that is actually made worse by a passive that increases duration of skills.

Purify will no longer remove spell projectiles, which was a vital asset to Templar survivabilty.

Channeled focus is also a nerf compared to Live, as right now you get regen for full 18 seconds and on PTS you're locked into stepping inside your 'house' every 8 seconds.

More important than the nerfs, clunky and unreliable skills remain as such. I still can't use dark flare or blazing spears in lag, I still can't use toppling charge without risk of being bugged out, I can't pivot direction when using jabs/sweep while rooted, I have to slot repentance to get LESS regen than other classes get in inherent passives, our skills are still expensive, we still have more channels and casts that almost every other class combined, ritual is still useless because it has a cast time, empowering sweep/crescent is still dwarfed by dawnbreaker, remembrance still makes you immobile, we still haven't received mobility, our class shield still only lasts 6 seconds, has a shorter ranger than WB on dmg, and is barely enough to mitigate a light attack. If you want more, go read the 75 page feedback thread on PTS forums.

templesus

Not horrible, not badly designed, whoever DID design them needs to come back because wrobel.is ruining them. IMO original Templar was where we should be right now

AfkNinja

TO all the people with the "I love my Templar" comments, you do realize you can love the class and still accept that it is in fact the worst designed class in the game currently.....they aren't mutually exclusive. There are over 80 pages of feedback about Templar and the broken passives, bugged skills, lack of synergy etc. throughout the whole class.

I don't give feedback about Templar cause I hate it but because I love it and see how fun it could be with a few fixes to bring it up to par. We don't wanna be OP, the community just wants to be heard and know positive changes are coming.

A buff on Dark Flare (likely to get reversed) and Major Mending aren't going to fix all the broken things with this class.

EdmundTowers

Omg all the house references...

UrQuan

Time for my opinion (please note, this is based on my personal experience based on a lot of time playing Templars, and also all 3 other classes, and is all my own personal opinion - I'm not presenting this as objective facts):

Templars (especially magicka Templars) are the easiest class for solo play through PVE. They are decently strong in group dungeons and similar play. In PVP they're generally pretty weak for anything but healing.

The big problem with Templars isn't really that they're bad. It's that they have lots of bugged skills, and other skills that encourage a very static gameplay, while more and more of the content in the game encourages you to move around constantly.

GreenGhostMan wrote: »

Aren't they buffing templar DPS in TG patch?
BOL is the only nerf coming, right?

(not being sarcastic, honest questions)

There are buffs and there are nerfs. Some of the changes coming are good to one degree or another, some are bad, some are indifferent. Of all of the classes, I'm the most disappointed in the Templar changes. Based on the TG update changes, I see the other 3 classes as being fairly well balanced internally and against each other, and Templars lagging behind.

They still won't be bad per se. They'll still be a really easy class to do solo-friendly PVE content on, they'll still be decent in group dungeons if you know what you're doing (although weaker than they are now if you're in a group with relatively inexperienced players), and a good player will still be able to rock them. But they won't be as well balanced as the other classes, and they'll be the weakest in PVP.

It won't stop me from playing my Templars, but it's disappointing to see, for example, how well thought-out and good the changes are for magicka DKs, and then compare that to the changes to Templars.

NativeJoe

Templars get great... After you put time in them and capitalize on their strengths. You cannot just reach v16, throw on some mismatch partial bonus set gear and run into dungeons expecting to come out on top. thats not how things work. lol True... templars have some serious bug issues. but so does every other class. Templar dot heals locking u out of healing for 4 seconds, Leaping around can get u stuck in animations and stuck in all sorts of wierd positions, being the worst bugs right now.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/213734/bugs-compendium-of-current-bugs-exploits-maintained-daily#latest

here are some of the issues in a link


I understand the fustration. I'm a sorc and when my main ultimate won't fire anything off and it locks me out of my skills on a boss where everyone is counting on me, I freak out x.x

Callous2208

NativeJoe wrote: »

Templars get great... After you put time in them and capitalize on their strengths. You cannot just reach v16, throw on some mismatch partial bonus set gear and run into dungeons expecting to come out on top. thats not how things work. lol True... templars have some serious bug issues. but so does every other class. Templar dot heals locking u out of healing for 4 seconds, Leaping around can get u stuck in animations and stuck in all sorts of wierd positions, being the worst bugs right now.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/213734/bugs-compendium-of-current-bugs-exploits-maintained-daily#latest

here are some of the issues in a link


I understand the fustration. I'm a sorc and when my main ultimate won't fire anything off and it locks me out of my skills on a boss where everyone is counting on me, I freak out x.x

I respect your opinion but disagree a bit with the first point. In my opinion, sitting at v16 with full gold gear, and a great build, is where you finally start to see they're not that great. Of course I'm talking from the stamplar side of things. Can I complete everything? Absolutely. But having played at that high level on some other classes, for me anyway, temp is miles behind the curve.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

My main is a magicka Templar and I enjoy playing her the most. Granted, Templars need A LOT of work, but there is very little I cannot solo and people beg for my heals.

Papa_Hunt

Abeille wrote: »

But rest assured, the solutions they are coming up with are not really addressing the issues (Bugged skills? Low mobility? Better increase the dps on one of the slow-casting skills!).

The lack of mobility (especially Magicka builds) is my number one complaint. It makes me not want to play my Templar.

Moonshadow66

Besides of some casting bugs in the past, I never had and issues with my Templars. On the contrary, they're the most effective characters I have in terms of damage AND healing, because they can do it simultaneously.

Oldmanlawlor

OP VS my Orc Stamplar.

Tickets €5

Khaos_Bane

My House ! Get OUT !