Dear God Templars are BAD.

Kozai

UrQuan wrote: »

Templars (especially magicka Templars) are the easiest class for solo play through PVE. They are decently strong in group dungeons and similar play. In PVP they're generally pretty weak for anything but healing.

The big problem with Templars isn't really that they're bad. It's that they have lots of bugged skills, and other skills that encourage a very static gameplay, while more and more of the content in the game encourages you to move around constantly.

I've been playing a Dragonknight tank and a magicka Templar healer/dps, up in the mid vet levels now, and I'd be inclined to agree with you on the PvE front. I find it much easier to solo things like world bosses on my Templar, and complete a variety of PvE content. If the Dragonknight had a more dps oriented build, maybe that would change, I don't know. I've done no PvP (I know I suck at it, in the three MMOs I've experimented with it, I've never won a 1 on 1), but most of the complaint threads seem to center around that, from what I can tell.

I do worry a bit about the static gameplay of the Templar, though, after watching some videos a friend made of doing the new Arena content. That requires a LOT of mobility, and I'm a bit doubtful I could even beat the non-vet version he finally made it through. He was relying heavily on shields and fast ranged attacks on his character, and I don't have that level of proactive mitigation or fast ranged damage on my Templar. I would be curious to know what the stats are on the various classes beating the arena, it might give an idea how much mobility restriction is a problem.

And, by the way, for those complaining that no devs have commented on the feedback threads in the PTS forum, my experience is that they look for well thought out comments like what UrQuan made, but they don't want to get drawn into debates on specific classes, skills and mechanics, because there are 100 of you for every 1 of them and participating in the discussions would become a full time job. I'd rather have them fixing things, than discussing fixes. There is no way they are creating feedback threads and just ignoring them. . .

Baconlad

Hmm...yeah I absolutely love the templar. Stamina builds and magicka builds...they are freaking fantastic. Great spammable skills, VERY hard hitting. VERY survivable. I've personally seen a templar that can SUSTAIN damage bloodspawn at 34,000 DPS using nothing but dark flare...that was on a nord templar too. No vamps bane, no heavy, light attack, no ultis...only channeled focus and dark flare. In pvp I've fought templars where it was just them and five enemy players, all they did was pop BoL on them selves and lived long enough to run into the keep from about fifty meters to the door...they are NUTS. we do have a few band aid fixes that I wish would be fixed. I personally do not like the dot effect that was placed on crescent sweep, think they should have just increased the range and it would have been fine. Also they're some of the best soloers in game...stamina templar do feel lacking in the damage aspect a tad though...just need to learn what is effective and what's not...templar master class seriously

JDar

Just block and spam BoL

*yawn*

cool class ZoS

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I want templars to be able to defend this house!!! So lets delete an AOE miss-chance tanking ability and replace it with a 28 meter channeled execute.

#WrobelLogic

Uriel_Nocturne

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. [snip]


[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

lol

It has to be you, OP.

My Magicka Templar just eviscerates... pretty much everything. Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath is all I need. Dual Wielding added in for those rare occasions I burn through my Magicka.

All Light armor with Divines trait on every piece, the Apprentice as Mundus Stone, and I can pretty much sleep through fights.

Templars are just fine as a class.

Kaliki

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

It has to be you, OP.

My Magicka Templar just eviscerates... pretty much everything. Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath is all I need. Dual Wielding added in for those rare occasions I burn through my Magicka.

All Light armor with Divines trait on every piece, the Apprentice as Mundus Stone, and I can pretty much sleep through fights.

Templars are just fine as a class.

You are right, Templars can do proper dps.
But they arent competitive at anything else.

Templar CC sucks, mobility sucks, regen passives suck, defense sucks (e.g. nbs getting + health and armor for using dps abilities).

Wrobel thinks Templars can stand their ground while they are best as glass cannons.
I would call that failed design and thus agree with OP.

eliisra

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. [snip]


[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

lol

It has to be you, OP.

My Magicka Templar just eviscerates... pretty much everything. Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath is all I need. Dual Wielding added in for those rare occasions I burn through my Magicka.

All Light armor with Divines trait on every piece, the Apprentice as Mundus Stone, and I can pretty much sleep through fights.

Templars are just fine as a class.

Level 47 templar alt that apparently restores magicka "Dual Wielding" definitely knows what's up.

When you say "sleep through fights" I can only assume you're talking about those terrifying landscape NPC's that needs at least 5 minutes to kill a player.

But that's really not what the almost 80 pages long templar feedback thread is about. I also doubt @Vatter has any problems solo'ing PvE content made for solo'ing on his templar. You would have to suffer from some kinda of cognitive, physical or mental disability to struggle with solo PvE on any class in ESO. His not so constructive burst of rage is likely about templar performance PvP.

Vatter

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

Vatter

eliisra wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. [snip]


[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

lol

It has to be you, OP.

My Magicka Templar just eviscerates... pretty much everything. Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath is all I need. Dual Wielding added in for those rare occasions I burn through my Magicka.

All Light armor with Divines trait on every piece, the Apprentice as Mundus Stone, and I can pretty much sleep through fights.

Templars are just fine as a class.

Level 47 templar alt that apparently restores magicka "Dual Wielding" definitely knows what's up.

When you say "sleep through fights" I can only assume you're talking about those terrifying landscape NPC's that needs at least 5 minutes to kill a player.

But that's really not what the almost 80 pages long templar feedback thread is about. I also doubt @Vatter has any problems solo'ing PvE content made for solo'ing on his templar. You would have to suffer from some kinda of cognitive, physical or mental disability to struggle with solo PvE on any class in ESO. His not so constructive burst of rage is likely about templar performance PvP.

Hit the nail on the head. +1 awesome.

yelloweyedemon

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-qnxub5dT4

PS: It's not me in the vid

Takllin

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3TW-Z3EGmo

Check out this man's videos.

They aren't awful, your exaggerating hard.

blabafat

Click on the link in my signature @Vatter

dodgehopper_ESO

nimander99 wrote: »

Dood w/e, Templars are WAY to OP and need further nerfs beyond whats coming with Thieves Guild. I mean seriously, I can still kill Mud Crabs, Helooooooooo Mud Crabs! Unacceptable, NERF NOW!

Hahah, this made me think of that cowardly Orc blacksmith on Stros M'kai, 'Gosh those Mudcrabs are scary!'.

Shelgon

Honestly tbh, I'm not gonna say templar is overall best class, not gonna say it's the worst either, however the majority of people who play templar are really bad at playing templar, atleast in pvp IMO.

avelopolcakb14a_ESO

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3TW-Z3EGmo

Check out this man's videos.

They aren't awful, your exaggerating hard.

Looks like prox det is doing the bulk of all of those kills. It also looks like everyone he's playing has no idea what theyre doing. Sorcs spamming frags, people ranging and just light attacking? Looks like a bunch of BS fights to me

Vatter

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-qnxub5dT4

PS: It's not me in the vid

not bad. this is actually the same set up (armor sets are slightly different) on live. couple of things I noticed.
1. this is a cut video of just wins. not a full play through.
2. 90% of these fights are with a charged ultimate.
3. this is pts and subject to change. anyone remember the 170% jabs or old school radiant destruction?
4. was this the pts where everyone had the same champ points?

Takllin

avelopolcakb14a_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3TW-Z3EGmo

Check out this man's videos.

They aren't awful, your exaggerating hard.

Looks like prox det is doing the bulk of all of those kills. It also looks like everyone he's playing has no idea what theyre doing. Sorcs spamming frags, people ranging and just light attacking? Looks like a bunch of BS fights to me

LOL. That's every youtube video...doesn't matter what class. How should this now be different for Templar?

He has a ton of videos, check them out.

Also look at this man's channel too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQOzYqVWAWA

Google is your friend, it's not hard to find Templar PvP videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOkhH841JIE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRGOA6Mbr4M

Shelgon wrote: »

Honestly tbh, I'm not gonna say templar is overall best class, not gonna say it's the worst either, however the majority of people who play templar are really bad at playing templar, atleast in pvp IMO.

+1 m8

Vatter

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3TW-Z3EGmo

Check out this man's videos.

They aren't awful, your exaggerating hard.

hahaha this is a joke video right? Do you really want me to list what is wrong here?

yelloweyedemon

Vatter wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-qnxub5dT4

PS: It's not me in the vid

not bad. this is actually the same set up (armor sets are slightly different) on live. couple of things I noticed.
1. this is a cut video of just wins. not a full play through.
2. 90% of these fights are with a charged ultimate.
3. this is pts and subject to change. anyone remember the 170% jabs or old school radiant destruction?
4. was this the pts where everyone had the same champ points?

1: Yeah it's full wins. Templars can be killed too you know? This just proves they are not bad if played right.
2: Uhm, it's pretty difficult to balance ult charge fights in an open world PvP game
3: AFAIk, the only massive thing that changed between this and the patch that will go live in a few days is tha magelight reveal debuff...
4: When we are talking about class ballance, we assume everyone is equal in champ points... You can't get killed on templar while having 0 champ points and then say templars suck...

Takllin

Vatter wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3TW-Z3EGmo

Check out this man's videos.

They aren't awful, your exaggerating hard.

hahaha this is a joke video right? Do you really want me to list what is wrong here?

He's got lots of videos, like I said, go through them, I linked that one as it was his most recent because directly linking to channels doesn't work.

You asked for youtube videos, I'm giving them to you because you can't do a simple google search. Now you want to disqualify ones that have proved you wrong, because you don't like something about them? topkekm8

Blabafat is one of the best Magicka Templar players in ESO, in dueling and small scale.

Your argument about wanting someone to duel you on a Magicka Sorc is irrelevant to how good or bad a Templar is.

blabafat

I am done here lol

Vatter

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-qnxub5dT4

PS: It's not me in the vid

not bad. this is actually the same set up (armor sets are slightly different) on live. couple of things I noticed.
1. this is a cut video of just wins. not a full play through.
2. 90% of these fights are with a charged ultimate.
3. this is pts and subject to change. anyone remember the 170% jabs or old school radiant destruction?
4. was this the pts where everyone had the same champ points?

1: Yeah it's full wins. Templars can be killed too you know? This just proves they are not bad if played right.
2: Uhm, it's pretty difficult to balance ult charge fights in an open world PvP game
3: AFAIk, the only massive thing that changed between this and the patch that will go live in a few days is tha magelight reveal debuff...
4: When we are talking about class ballance, we assume everyone is equal in champ points... You can't get killed on templar while having 0 champ points and then say templars suck...

1. its full of wins because he is picking and choosing what to show. not a win to lose ratio. was he able to win only 1 in 4 of each fight due to the ultimate? we don't know.
2. these are clearly 1v1 since he is customizing his bar to who he fights. you won't be doing that in pvp
3. you don't know what will make final cut. your not a designer.
4. the reason i ask if they are equal in champ points because any class can nuke another class if they have 300 :100 champ point ratio.

Uriel_Nocturne

@Vatter You know, the game is more than PvP, right?

I hope you know that.

Uriel_Nocturne

eliisra wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Who on team ZOS is responsible for designing the templar? Seriously, by far the worst designed class in any game I have ever played. [snip]


[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

lol

It has to be you, OP.

My Magicka Templar just eviscerates... pretty much everything. Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath is all I need. Dual Wielding added in for those rare occasions I burn through my Magicka.

All Light armor with Divines trait on every piece, the Apprentice as Mundus Stone, and I can pretty much sleep through fights.

Templars are just fine as a class.

Level 47 templar alt that apparently restores magicka "Dual Wielding" definitely knows what's up.

When you say "sleep through fights" I can only assume you're talking about those terrifying landscape NPC's that needs at least 5 minutes to kill a player.

But that's really not what the almost 80 pages long templar feedback thread is about. I also doubt @Vatter has any problems solo'ing PvE content made for solo'ing on his templar. You would have to suffer from some kinda of cognitive, physical or mental disability to struggle with solo PvE on any class in ESO. His not so constructive burst of rage is likely about templar performance PvP.

@eliisra Your condescension is cute. Really.

I could even sleep through Public Dungeons. Trials and Group Dungeons I hold my own with my Guildmates and rarely die.

Maelstrom is a bit harder, but I still cruise through just fine.

The game is much more than PvP, and nowhere in my post did I refute even a single page or post of that 80-page Templar thread. I simply posted my opinion.

Zheg

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3TW-Z3EGmo

Check out this man's videos.

They aren't awful, your exaggerating hard.

hahaha this is a joke video right? Do you really want me to list what is wrong here?

He's got lots of videos, like I said, go through them, I linked that one as it was his most recent because directly linking to channels doesn't work.

You asked for youtube videos, I'm giving them to you because you can't do a simple google search. Now you want to disqualify ones that have proved you wrong, because you don't like something about them? topkekm8

Blabafat is one of the best Magicka Templar players in ESO, in dueling and small scale.

Your argument about wanting someone to duel you on a Magicka Sorc is irrelevant to how good or bad a Templar is.

My gripe whenever someone points to blab being successful on temp (and he certainly is) is that it's almost always in small scale scenarios and mostly removed from lag. That's not how most Templars pvp. Lag is ever-present, and Templars are affected more than any other because of how casts/channels function in lag. I can handle most 1v1 on my Templar when not on group heal spec, but throw in lag and a keep fight where 3 bombard casts are going out for every one of my purifys and blabs videos start to lose relevance.

Now throw in next patch where rapids nerf impacts Templars more than any other class, purify no longer working on projectiles, and fasallas guile making our class defense (healing) at least 50% weaker and we have a problem Houston.

maxjapank

Just fix Toppling Charge, and I'd be happy. That's my number one complaint. We need a reliable gap closer, stun, and interrupt. I'd definitely welcome a bit more spell power, mitigation, and better resource management. But ZOS, you need to fix Toppling Charge. It needs to be at the top of the list.

yelloweyedemon

Vatter wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

Vatter wrote: »

to anyone who says Templars are just fine where they are please post a video of you in PVP. Any video will do. any at all. My guess is you won't. ever. because they are awful.

I also challenge anyone who says their templar eviscerates to take on my v16 sorc. I'll record it and post it here. anyone at all. Just let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-qnxub5dT4

PS: It's not me in the vid

not bad. this is actually the same set up (armor sets are slightly different) on live. couple of things I noticed.
1. this is a cut video of just wins. not a full play through.
2. 90% of these fights are with a charged ultimate.
3. this is pts and subject to change. anyone remember the 170% jabs or old school radiant destruction?
4. was this the pts where everyone had the same champ points?

1: Yeah it's full wins. Templars can be killed too you know? This just proves they are not bad if played right.
2: Uhm, it's pretty difficult to balance ult charge fights in an open world PvP game
3: AFAIk, the only massive thing that changed between this and the patch that will go live in a few days is tha magelight reveal debuff...
4: When we are talking about class ballance, we assume everyone is equal in champ points... You can't get killed on templar while having 0 champ points and then say templars suck...

1. its full of wins because he is picking and choosing what to show. not a win to lose ratio. was he able to win only 1 in 4 of each fight due to the ultimate? we don't know.
2. these are clearly 1v1 since he is customizing his bar to who he fights. you won't be doing that in pvp
3. you don't know what will make final cut. your not a designer.
4. the reason i ask if they are equal in champ points because any class can nuke another class if they have 300 :100 champ point ratio.

1: These are cherry picked fights. No doubt about that. I don't know the win v lose ratio, but from what I see, his opponents were not bad.
2: In 90% of the fights he used the same set-up. This can easily be a roaming/small group PvP setup.
3: Can't argue on that, but c'mon. What game-changing alteration are they gonna do before testing it?
4: I think it's on the pts where everyone had equal CP. Yes.

Autolycus

I find threads like this to be irritating. You guys realize that whining on rage threads like this one is totally pointless right? It's completely illogical to think that ZOS "hates" templars, and that they either do not care or are not willing to make the necessary changes/fixes. Crying on the forums and being all aggro and rage is not going to speed up the process. It's simply going to make you (and likely most others who visit the thread) more frustrated.

UrQuan

Autolycus wrote: »

I find threads like this to be irritating. You guys realize that whining on rage threads like this one is totally pointless right? It's completely illogical to think that ZOS "hates" templars, and that they either do not care or are not willing to make the necessary changes/fixes. Crying on the forums and being all aggro and rage is not going to speed up the process. It's simply going to make you (and likely most others who visit the thread) more frustrated.

I absolutely agree with your points here. To be fair, though, that's how the thread started but most of what has followed hasn't really been like that. Most of what people have been posting in this thread hasn't been whining, and has instead been fairly reasoned and balanced critique.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

My first character was a templar. I remember everyone on the forums yelling for templar nerfs. I switched to DK. Then they screamed for DK nerfs and now my DK is no longer viable. So I rolled a nightblade and Ive been happy with that class. So now everyone is yelling for nightblade nerfs.