Who really Cares for RNG

MrGigglypants

Rng is a crap system that very few people enjoy. I dont know if its true but you're going to make the thieves guild AVA sets available via rewards for the worthy and the weekly rng vendor? Why? Just let us use our AP appropriately via boxes or the actual vendors that sell armour (whom are currently just for show)

Sunah

It depends but in general yes i like rng

RNG is ok in some situations but when I run vwgt (and im not joking) 971 times and I can't get a god damn Spell Power Cure belt... there is a huge damn issue going on.

ALSO after all of those runs, 3 out of the 4 pieces I do have.... I got from the damn chest. But my tank and dps buddy I run with have had the set drop 20 times over...

Kammakazi

I like Rng

I think I'm the only person who likes RNG.

WalkingLegacy

It depends on the situation but in general no

If used right it can be useful but it's used all wrong in this game... Well except maybe obtaining motifs....that's where it does work

RAGUNAnoOne

It depends on the situation but in general no

Random rubbish no problem at all but for super hard content catered to top players RNG has no place in the rewards for that.

HebrewHatchet

It depends but in general yes i like rng

It's psychologically addicting. You don't have to like it, but it works.

Ffastyl

It depends on the situation but in general no

Some things benefit or require RNG for balancing. For example, an ability that confers a random buff or debuff to the caster, any buff or debuff in the game, even the 'godmode' ones. They have to be designed with RNG in mind, essentially. In general though, cause and effect should be predictable and/or consistent.

Best example for replacing an RNG system is critical hits. In Borderlands, critical hits are whenever you strike a weak point on the target (head for humanoids, eyes for giant monsters, etc.). In the Souls series, critical hits are ripostes and backstabs, requiring predictive parries and efficient positioning respectively. In the Tales Of series, critical hits occur when you fill a combo gauge.

Critical hits for ESO could be back attacks or striking during a certain window but regardless of the replacement system it would require coding it in. Why, even for back attacks? Currently for players, there is no directional detection. Blocking is 360 degrees and detection areas for players are perfect circles whereas they are rough cones for NPCs. That system would have to be recoded to incorporate players for back attack criticals. We can assume it was not originally incorporated for players because of the additional lag it would cause, therefore making it not an 'easy' implementation. Other ways of scoring critical hits would require coding entirely new states or recording previously unrecorded actions, hence replacing the RNG system is easier said than done.

Another RNG system to replace is improvement item drop rate from refinement and the upgrade system for crafting. Both can be replaced with minigames where the success rate is determined by player skill. Hypothetically, a player could consistently upgrade items to Legendary quality using 1 gold improvement item per upgrade. Also hypothetically, a player could consistently get gold improvement items out of refinement. The refinement minigame would have to have a much broader range of performance 'scores' due to the larger loot table involved (7 to 10 base material and green, blue, purple and gold improvement items). The upgrade minigame can have a difficulty slider determined by the amount of upgrade items used. What would be a 100% rate now would either skip the minigame or set it to such a low difficulty it cannot be failed without attempting to fail. A possibility for the upgrade minigame could be blacksmithing from Fable 2:
(5:45 - 7:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbV7_pH8cU0

Dropped items from enemies could be guaranteed drops - you get what you see, like in the singleplayer TES games - or a 'gear break' system where hitting a weakness or doing something 'the easy way' destroys an item the enemy would have dropped. Hypothetically, rare drops would be guaranteed, if none of the 'weak points' are hit. It could alternatively be the literal gear the enemy is wearing and your battle deteriorates it, meaning if a certain item is desired then it should not be hit during the fight to avoid destroying it (i.e. Hitting the chest repeatedly breaks the cuirass; delivering a head/neck blow as the killing blow drops the monster helm). This system could have a literal impact on the encounter by weakening the enemy with every destroyed item, or it could only affect the loot drop at the end. Either way, there needs to be a visual cue to indicate which items, if any, are broken.

Chests can still be RNG - there is no realistic way to guarantee certain drops from a closed box, but the loot table can be restricted to drops fitting of the location - something ESO does well already. Drops such as Master and Maelstrom weapons could be a "pick 1" scenario from an armory at Arena's end. The (demi)god that runs the Arena prompts you to take a weapon from the armory (a weapon rack or wall rack) with the stipulation that you take only 1, or so much, and enforces that number by forcefully teleporting you out if you attempt to take more than specified. Unfortunately, the trait would still more than likely be RNG. The trait could be determined by party role or how the player fought during the Arena but that forces odd behaviour patterns in some cases in order to get a desired trait.


Regardless, all these ideas are, like the critical hit systems, "easier said than done." The systems need to be thought up and then thought through, prototyped, implemented, debugged, reiterated, etc.

flguy147ub17_ESO

HebrewHatchet wrote: »

It's psychologically addicting. You don't have to like it, but it works.

Hate to agree but you are right on. If people got what the weapon they wanted on the 2nd try then people would be upset that there isnt nothing for them to work for. Now i havent done it yet but long time MMO player and i remember running AOC for my Barb helm for almost 2 years every single week both T1 and T2 and never ever got it. They did end up implementing tokens but those still took a while to get enough to buy a piece but that is how i finalyl got my helm. But those were still tokens you had to roll on within the raid so they still werent guaranteed either lol.

Xendyn

It depends on the situation but in general no

Don't care for it, at least not this one. Doesn't feel so random sometimes.
Look up Seeding. I wonder if that isn't what we really have here.

theher0not

I dont like Rng

In extreme cases I am fine with RNG but I never like it.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

I like Rng

Kammakazi wrote: »

I think I'm the only person who likes RNG.

Im with you. It can be annoying but it makes it so much more satisfying to finally get what you're looking for.

khele23eb17_ESO

It depends on the situation but in general no

HebrewHatchet wrote: »

It's psychologically addicting. You don't have to like it, but it works.

Its addictive until it pisses you off. Then its just another one of the things you list when you spew venom on your last MMO on a gaming forum.

daemonios

It depends but in general yes i like rng

RNG is a good thing in theory. In practice it's hard to get a good system in place. ESO in particular has several issues stacking on top of each other:

- Multiplicative RNG (drop yes/no * armour weight * specific set * set piece * trait) means getting that particular piece from that particular set with that particular trait you've been after is an exercise in frustration;

- BoP means you can't trade your repeated/unwanted set pieces with others for the one you want.

The monster vendor in Cyrodiil does nothing to address this, as it's limited to monster sets and it's on a timer, meaning you need to check every time it's up to see if there's anything you need.

I'm beginning to think ZOS actually wants the endless grind in the game. Otherwise it would be easy to fix the current RNG system: BoE, in-group trades, token system would all be much better than the monster set vendor.

Agobi

I dont like Rng

RNG is moronic,pure and simple...its the easy way out for programmers who cant be *rsed to develop a system where effort=reward

Hate it!!!


Just my 2 pax ofc

Ra'Shtar

It depends on the situation but in general no

I have a great sense of respect for RNG because we get along pretty well and we can both be a real evil female dog .

PS: if you know what i mean XD

Sinthrax

I like Rng

If not for RNG this game would be dead. Most MMO's would be. It's the only thing that keeps people playing.

Solariken

It depends on the situation but in general no

RNG can be a fun gameplay element and works well for some items like the soul shriven skin, but the last two DLCs have taken it WAY over the top, making everything a ridiculous grind. I hate it.

PlagueMonk

It depends on the situation but in general no

I wanted a different option that stated, "RNG has it's place but not for everything"

And in actuality, it's not RNG that's the problem, It's BoP. If many of these items were BoE we could at least sell them/buy them.

I would even be ok if BoP had some provisions for exchanging/retooling very close items. I personally have 3.....THREE of the same good V16 Briarheart belt and 2 good V16 BH helms so if there were onyl some way to turn that belt or helm into pant or a ring it would be great.

Or if you could for a price change the RNG trait on an item OR upgrade that V15 item to a V16 (you could make it a new learnable max lvl craft skill). Make it expensive, lots of mats etc but if the option is there ppl will use it.....happily.

Anhedonie

It depends but in general yes i like rng

RNG isn't bad by itself. But LAYERS of RNG is a different thing. ESO suffers (well, mostly ESO players) from this greatly.
Trait reforging should be a thing. And style reforging.

Artjuh90

problem with this game is the triple RNG rate you have to beat:

• droprate
• trait
• type of armor (heavy,medium or light)

skarvika

I dont like Rng

RNG is almost always bad, no exceptions. I can't think of a single game that has overall benefited from the use of RNG.

Azarath_tiberius

I dont like Rng

It would be fine-ish if there was 1 RNG mechanic (depending on drop rate) but in this game most of the time we get 3 RNG checks!

1. Do you get the item or not?
2. What armor type / Which weapon?
3. What trait?

To the people that actually like the RNG.. Please! By all means elaborate.. Also I'm really curious do you also like to be pulled by the hair when this happens?

failkiwib16_ESO

I dont like Rng

I loath rng.

It is unrewarding as hell.

Baconlad

I DO like rng...but the only issue with this game is I feel like the droprates are so horrible it actually turns me away from doing the instances or participating in the system...so I don't do them. And its upsetting that these gear sets are turning into sets for only the ones who don't MIND running the same instance 50+ times. Don't even get me started on the maelstrom arena trying to run that for permafrost in v16 rings...yeah right! That's not happening

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

I like Rng

Azarath_tiberius wrote: »

It would be fine-ish if there was 1 RNG mechanic (depending on drop rate) but in this game most of the time we get 3 RNG checks!

1. Do you get the item or not?
2. What armor type / Which weapon?
3. What trait?

To the people that actually like the RNG.. Please! By all means elaborate.. Also I'm really curious do you also like to be pulled by the hair when this happens?

Usually when I get the item I want I get infused or divines. Monster helms for instance. I have gotten very few compared to other people but the ones I do have are all divines and infused with the exception of 2 reinforced pieces. I enjoy RNG because farming gives me something to do when I am bored. Yes I do like being pulled by the hair though I would much rather be smacked around and get hot wax poured all over me while farming

Ourorboros

It depends but in general yes i like rng

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Rng is a crap system that very few people enjoy. I dont know if its true but you're going to make the thieves guild AVA sets available via rewards for the worthy and the weekly rng vendor? Why? Just let us use our AP appropriately via boxes or the actual vendors that sell armour (whom are currently just for show)

I don't see RNG as the problem, even though I've spent hours grinding some achievements because of it. RNG would be acceptable if it just meant there is a rare, but possible, chance to get an item. This is how fishing and monster collectibles work. The problem with equipment items is not only do you have to be lucky to get an item, but also have an added RNG layer in getting a decent trait. The crap traits are really the problem. It's a kick in the teeth to grind for hours to get a desired item and have it appear with STURDY, TRAINING, EXPLORATION, etc. Of course some traits are more desirable than other, but why do we still have traits that are not just undesirable, but are worthless. Who wants a v16 item with TRAINING.Such an item is really only decon fodder. Many of the RNG complaints would disappear if all traits had some positive feature.

Kalante

I dont like Rng

*** rng. It is a band aid for grinding and poor set up. I like having a goal not depending on a throw of the dice. Hence why i never bothered with undaunted monster helms.

LadyNalcarya

I dont like Rng

Its not even rng that is an issue, its rng on top of rng on top of rng.
Wgt for example... There's around 10% chance to get an item from a boss, then there's another rng roll for the set (90% it will be something useless, like that jolting set), then another rng roll for the trait (ofc most likely it will be well-fitted). And even for enchant - I got spell cure breeches with stamina enchant and gloves with health rune.

Function

It depends on the situation but in general no

RNG is necessary but not the terrible RNG system ZoS currently has in place, as daemonios said -

daemonios wrote: »

RNG is a good thing in theory. In practice it's hard to get a good system in place. ESO in particular has several issues stacking on top of each other:

- Multiplicative RNG (drop yes/no * armour weight * specific set * set piece * trait) means getting that particular piece from that particular set with that particular trait you've been after is an exercise in frustration;

- BoP means you can't trade your repeated/unwanted set pieces with others for the one you want.

The monster vendor in Cyrodiil does nothing to address this, as it's limited to monster sets and it's on a timer, meaning you need to check every time it's up to see if there's anything you need.

I'm beginning to think ZOS actually wants the endless grind in the game. Otherwise it would be easy to fix the current RNG system: BoE, in-group trades, token system would all be much better than the monster set vendor.

With their current system it can take a ridiculous amount of runs in order to obtain your desired item, there is no progression toward getting that item, every run you have the same exact odds of getting it. The problem is that you are not rewarded for your effort, you can spend hundreds of hours trying to get your item and never get it, while others will get it their first run.

MarrazzMist

It depends but in general yes i like rng

Baconlad wrote: »

I DO like rng...but the only issue with this game is I feel like the droprates are so horrible it actually turns me away from doing the instances or participating in the system...so I don't do them. And its upsetting that these gear sets are turning into sets for only the ones who don't MIND running the same instance 50+ times.

Agree with this one.

Azarath_tiberius

I dont like Rng

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

show previous quotes

Azarath_tiberius wrote: »

It would be fine-ish if there was 1 RNG mechanic (depending on drop rate) but in this game most of the time we get 3 RNG checks!

1. Do you get the item or not?
2. What armor type / Which weapon?
3. What trait?

To the people that actually like the RNG.. Please! By all means elaborate.. Also I'm really curious do you also like to be pulled by the hair when this happens?

Usually when I get the item I want I get infused or divines. Monster helms for instance. I have gotten very few compared to other people but the ones I do have are all divines and infused with the exception of 2 reinforced pieces. I enjoy RNG because farming gives me something to do when I am bored. Yes I do like being pulled by the hair though I would much rather be smacked around and get hot wax poured all over me while farming

hot damn.. I must say I'm impressed by your luck but lets see how quickly that will change once you've rerunned the same instance over 50 times to get the item (just getting it, I'm not counting trait / armor type). Or lets make it worse, when you want an item from the PvP boxes that give you 99% of the time BoP crap loot (I'm looking at you PvErs).

Also the argument, "It gives me a reason to farm it / Im bored", like wtf? Do people just play this game ONLY to obtain high level items and then they call it for the night? Or even better , don't you have anything better to do in this game rather than rerunning the same instance 1000000 times? It buffles me really. Not everyone has the time OR the will to deal with this kind of grind ZOS has put us through.. ( DISCLAIMER: If you are doing the same instance in repeat because its fun for you, thats a different discussion, frankly go nuts with it. )

This whole BS with RNG needs to be tuned down fast. ZOS did a good job with vMA weapons (only 3 traits available: sharpened, precise , defending) and the Undaunted Vendor, but we need more. For example:

• Don't reward crap sets in last chests of vMA... No sane person wants Jack of Para Bellum (well-fitted) ffs.. 2 RNG checks are enough [1) getting the item you want or not, 2) with the trait you want or not] or even better make those sets BoE.. Don't worry if your DLC is any good they will buy it..
• Up (by a lot imo) the cost of the Undaunted sets from the PvP vendor but at least let us choose the trait. There are 10 Undaunted sets right now (head + shoulder, so 20 items in total), IF each piece has a chance to come in only 3 out of the 9 traits (impen, divines, infused) AND the vendor has new sets available ONCE per week === ...well do the math your self but I'm pretty sure its more than 52 weeks for a chance to get ONE undaunted item in the trait you want.. GG once again

@Wrobel not everyone wants to be pulled by the hair or be poured with hot wax so change your RNG system.. ASAP