How many people is a zerg?

Ghost-Shot

1-2

Xsorus wrote: »

4-8 could be considered zerging depending on which gameplay you're taking part in.

Even though that is a full group in both ESO and DAOC.

For example during DAOC most stealthers ran as solos or duos. You would run into trios but anything past that was called a stealth Zerg. For anyone who played Merlin server they probably remember the dumba Zerg which was usually 6 to 8 stealthers.

For anything not concerning stealth based pvp it's usually anything past one group; though frankly in this game if you hit me with 7 or 8 and I had 4 I wouldn't think ya zerged me but I wouldn't fault people who did. Simply cause the group pvp in this game is very lax with what people run. It hasn't been enforced like it was in DAOC for example. If you ran for example 10vs8 in DAOC every single 8 man would shun you; they would go out of their way to Assjam your fights; if two different realms were fighting they would seriously stop and fight the 10 man as well. It was very strictly enforced not to be *** in pvp basically.

Now you look at ESO if you hit me with 10 and I had 8 I wouldn't care... I wouldn't say you zerged or what not either... Probably cause just adding another person onto the 8 isn't going to make a break the fight like adding an extra person in DAOC did... Having 2 people in DAOC add on your fight could seriously ruin your day with the interrupt system and things like buff shears for example.

however there is a certain point where past a number you are just zerging around... In DAOC it was 9+ I'd say in this game it's probably 12+ even though I'd never run 12 I see it as the number most guilds would have simply cause of trials.

Running 24 you're a damn Zerg though... There hasn't been an MMO yet running 24 people wasn't considered a Zerg.

What about DAOC?

CatchMeTrolling

Tsar_Bogatyr wrote: »

is funny how people forget to mention this but

"The Zerg Swarm is a terrifying and ruthless amalgamation of biologically advanced, arthropodal aliens. Dedicated to the pursuit of genetic perfection, the zerg relentlessly hunt down and assimilate advanced species across the galaxy"

Quoted from http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zerg

Someone already mentioned this in the first few comments kinda lol

Yiko

Zerging is relative to an extent, but there's more to it than that. I'd never call 2 people a zerg. I think zerging results when an individual's effective performance is diluted from allied group numbers to the point that the individual's output is rendered insignificant or inconsequential. For example, in a group of 2, ideally each person would be responsible for 50% of the outcome. In a group of 25, each person would have around 4% of the outcome.

You have to draw the line somewhere to deem whether or not one's actions can be determined as significant or meaningful in the general context of ESO PVP. If they're not meaningful based on the individual output %'s, then they're zerging.

That way, both the group of 48 and the group of 70 can BOTH be considered zergs in the general context of ESO PVP, and a group of 2 will (or should) never be considered a zerg.

Recremen

KenaPKK wrote: »

None of the above. The word "zerg" is used relatively, so its definition must be relative as well.

A zerg is any group larger than is necessary to achieve its objective. If two people kill a new PvPer, they zerged him. If 24 or 40 or more people swarm a well-defended keep and barely take it, they are not a zerg. Your perspective of the "zerg" must change relative to what the group is trying to accomplish.

Best definition, honestly, trying to play with static numbers completely misapprehends the purpose of the term. It's like trying to argue what "a lot of money" is. I'm so glad you got the first comment.

DaveMoeDee

1-2

One person complaining equals zerg.

Lexxypwns

Manoekin wrote: »

If you have more than me you're zerging. Read my mind, know how many are in my group, forget how many other players not in my group are around me, and then cut people from your own group/guild to make it even. Otherwise, you're just a zerg baddie.

+1

Edit: I can't speak for anyone else, but I know if I'm zerging when I get a sick feeling because I realize no amount of skill from my opponent(s) could have possibly saved them. This obviously varies by encounter, if an opposing force is pushing into an inner breach with 16 people, I don't feel bad about being around 8 or 10 other players, however, 8 or 10 feels like a lot when you outnumber people with it. I have no problem with 24 people pushing to take keeps, and wouldn't mind any specific amount as long as the servers were capable.

kingqueso950

It seems as though, according to AD/DC players that a zerg is any group of red players no matter who outnumbers who. Red is always considered a zerg lol

Sypher

Anything over one is a Zerg.

STRICTLY ONLY ONE

Nightblade with a shadow image? ZERG
Sorcerer with pets? ZERG
Player with Engine guardian minion? ZERG
Player with Deadroth Spawn? ZERG

STOP ZERGING 2016

Elong

Sypher wrote: »

Anything over one is a Zerg.

STRICTLY ONLY ONE

Nightblade with a shadow image? ZERG
Sorcerer with pets? ZERG
Player with Engine guardian minion? ZERG
Player with Deadroth Spawn? ZERG

STOP ZERGING 2016

Sypher and his stream followers: ZERG

PhatGrimReaper

24+

Elong wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Anything over one is a Zerg.

STRICTLY ONLY ONE

Nightblade with a shadow image? ZERG
Sorcerer with pets? ZERG
Player with Engine guardian minion? ZERG
Player with Deadroth Spawn? ZERG

STOP ZERGING 2016

Sypher and his stream followers: ZERG

You owe me a new laptop...... my current one appears to be covered with coffee........

americansteel

1-2

Imma 1 man zerg













just kidding,

dennissomb16_ESO

1-2

The real answer of course is anytime the enemy has more people than you in a fight. I find it quite funny when i listen to people rage anytime the other side outnumbers us in a fight, no matter the numbers LOL

MrBM

24+

I say 24 or more but it is not always the case. The reason I say 24 or more though is because that is all every campaign is right now on Xbox NA. I myself do not mind running a 24 man group but it is not my favorite at all. I tend to like the 12 man the best. I enjoy taking out large zerg balls with my 12 man. Most the zergs my guild goes up against are mostly mindless zombies to using numbers to their advantage. We are talking 60 plus from both AD and DC. EP does the exact same but I tend to keep my group away from them as much as possible. But of all the zergs I've seen on PC and Xbox NA, DC always has the biggest one every time.

Lokey0024

11-12

So anything less then 24 is just a nerd herd?

Etaniel

13-14

I'd say anything over 12 is always a zerg, even if they face 48+ people, it's zerg v zerg. There comes a point where individual players don't matter anymore and it's all about group utility.
That doesn't mean those 12 + are scubs, but in my book they are zerging because their numbers becomes the most important factor.

Now, i'd also say that I got zerged if a group of 8 runs me over when I'm solo.
I'll start saying I got zerged when I get killed solo by 5 or more. But being solo vs 5 is way more managable than duo vs 10 I think, so you can't apply simple ratios.

All in all I think it's all about the respect you have for the players you face, if I'm in a 6 man group and we find a solo player, we won't all jump him like he's just a bag of ap, usually it'll be 2 or 3 people going for him, while the others stay back and watch for possible additionnal inc. Don't overdo it and be respectful to those you face, otherwise they will mow you down shamelessly when they are the ones outnumbering you. ie if you spam ultimates on me as a 10 man group when I'm solo, I will ask my group to roflstomp you with everything we have the next time I face you, no shame in zerging you

Sallington

any group that has more people than your group.

Turelus

1-2

1-2.

This is what the players in IC tell me when me and a friend kill them.

Manoekin

1-2

24 players in group?

Jules

17-24

Manoekin wrote: »

CN_Daniel wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

CN_Daniel wrote: »

The same people who cry about 'getting zerged' seem to think it's different if they jump on someone 6v1, 6v2, etc

So I kill groups like Analiers whenever possible, because they just "mini-zerg" small teams.


If 6 people jump 2, that's 3:1 odds. Those same 6 should expect 3:1 odds from 18 people then.

I'm just restoring the balance.

Game mechanics prevent that from being 3:1 odds, just fyi.

Sometimes small groups do things that they then shouldn't complain about any kind of numbers after. However, there's plenty of small groups that try to do things away from the main action, and a group of 24 shows up to clear them out for whatever reason. You can take 4 people to a Glademist resource and expect a full raid to show up. If you go to an Arrius resource what appears to be the entirety of the EP population ends up there. The same thing happens with AD I know because sometimes I show up to a resource expecting to see a lot of enemies, and I only see a couple of known small group players. What I do is then let zone chat know it's clear, and what I don't do is engage in fighting myself. If I see them trying to get away I'll tell my group to stop chasing. If they go in the tower I won't say to follow them, but if you want to stay in the tower I can't help it if people enter it to try and fight them.

It's not about what other people do, it's about what you do.

It would be different if I saw teams of 6+ leave solo/duo players, I've never seen one do it. They 6v1 them. We actually had this discussion in depth in Ts a few nights ago. The rule we camp up with was ~6+, you're a target. Less and and you're not. All about ratios. 3v1 is no different than 9v3 is no different than 27v9.

IMO you'll never reliably decide whether or not it's less than or more than 6. Too many people inflate numbers in call outs. It's better to learn who you're fighting. Also, my point was that 3v1 may not be a "fair" fight, but at least it's fair mechanically. 3v9 is still pretty good, but getting to the point of 6v18, 9v27 you are essentially adding an extra 6 or 10.5 players to the fight via AOE caps in regards to how much damage you need to do. Certainly, if those smaller groups are trying to pick a fight go right on ahead, but to accomplish your objective and then go out of your way to kill them... I see that happen way too much.

Zerglord has spoken people!!

HeroOfNone

17-24

There are 2 types of zergs.

A "ball zerg" is any group that is over the AOE cap limit thst stack up in distance for an AOE to affect (generally 5m to 10m). These are also the groups rumored to cause lag with the numerous ability check done in a small area

A "general zerg" is generally 12+ (17 to 24 is the most notable) in visual distance of one another that roam to singular objectives. These groups can be close in or spread out, but don't normally stay ontop of one another.


In terms of AOE caps players seem to think it would be the cure all for both, despite the ball zergs being organized & better equipped; and the general zergs normally too far out to AOE, only grouping up to multiple crit rush someone.

Ghostbane

Four Templars on a sled is not a zerg, but 4 Nightblades in a Cadillac is.

Derra

13-14

GRxKnight wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

4-8 could be considered zerging depending on which gameplay you're taking part in.

Even though that is a full group in both ESO and DAOC.

For example during DAOC most stealthers ran as solos or duos. You would run into trios but anything past that was called a stealth Zerg. For anyone who played Merlin server they probably remember the dumba Zerg which was usually 6 to 8 stealthers.

For anything not concerning stealth based pvp it's usually anything past one group; though frankly in this game if you hit me with 7 or 8 and I had 4 I wouldn't think ya zerged me but I wouldn't fault people who did. Simply cause the group pvp in this game is very lax with what people run. It hasn't been enforced like it was in DAOC for example. If you ran for example 10vs8 in DAOC every single 8 man would shun you; they would go out of their way to Assjam your fights; if two different realms were fighting they would seriously stop and fight the 10 man as well. It was very strictly enforced not to be *** in pvp basically.

Now you look at ESO if you hit me with 10 and I had 8 I wouldn't care... I wouldn't say you zerged or what not either... Probably cause just adding another person onto the 8 isn't going to make a break the fight like adding an extra person in DAOC did... Having 2 people in DAOC add on your fight could seriously ruin your day with the interrupt system and things like buff shears for example.

however there is a certain point where past a number you are just zerging around... In DAOC it was 9+ I'd say in this game it's probably 12+ even though I'd never run 12 I see it as the number most guilds would have simply cause of trials.

Running 24 you're a damn Zerg though... There hasn't been an MMO yet running 24 people wasn't considered a Zerg.

Daoc...being relavent to explaining eso pvp mechanics since never

Daoc being relevant to giving and example of what good large scale pvp for all playstyles looks like - always. Quite the opposite of eso pvp.

manny254

CN_Daniel wrote: »

The same people who cry about 'getting zerged' seem to think it's different if they jump on someone 6v1, 6v2, etc

So I kill groups like Analiers whenever possible, because they just "mini-zerg" small teams.


If 6 people jump 2, that's 3:1 odds. Those same 6 should expect 3:1 odds from 18 people then.

I'm just restoring the balance.

Clearly whats happening.

I think you are just a little salty that when we encounter your groups and we are only outnumbered by 3 to 1 we generally win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOOWkLcmIWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzVwfFeALFg

kylewwefan

5-6

All it takes is about 5 or 6people fighting on one screen to cause lag and get things all messed up.

Master_Kas

24+

manny254 wrote: »

CN_Daniel wrote: »

The same people who cry about 'getting zerged' seem to think it's different if they jump on someone 6v1, 6v2, etc

So I kill groups like Analiers whenever possible, because they just "mini-zerg" small teams.


If 6 people jump 2, that's 3:1 odds. Those same 6 should expect 3:1 odds from 18 people then.

I'm just restoring the balance.

Clearly whats happening.

I think you are just a little salty that when we encounter your groups and we are only outnumbered by 3 to 1 we generally win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOOWkLcmIWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzVwfFeALFg

Lol that first video xD Nice one

Manoekin

1-2

Jules wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

CN_Daniel wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

CN_Daniel wrote: »

The same people who cry about 'getting zerged' seem to think it's different if they jump on someone 6v1, 6v2, etc

So I kill groups like Analiers whenever possible, because they just "mini-zerg" small teams.


If 6 people jump 2, that's 3:1 odds. Those same 6 should expect 3:1 odds from 18 people then.

I'm just restoring the balance.

Game mechanics prevent that from being 3:1 odds, just fyi.

Sometimes small groups do things that they then shouldn't complain about any kind of numbers after. However, there's plenty of small groups that try to do things away from the main action, and a group of 24 shows up to clear them out for whatever reason. You can take 4 people to a Glademist resource and expect a full raid to show up. If you go to an Arrius resource what appears to be the entirety of the EP population ends up there. The same thing happens with AD I know because sometimes I show up to a resource expecting to see a lot of enemies, and I only see a couple of known small group players. What I do is then let zone chat know it's clear, and what I don't do is engage in fighting myself. If I see them trying to get away I'll tell my group to stop chasing. If they go in the tower I won't say to follow them, but if you want to stay in the tower I can't help it if people enter it to try and fight them.

It's not about what other people do, it's about what you do.

It would be different if I saw teams of 6+ leave solo/duo players, I've never seen one do it. They 6v1 them. We actually had this discussion in depth in Ts a few nights ago. The rule we camp up with was ~6+, you're a target. Less and and you're not. All about ratios. 3v1 is no different than 9v3 is no different than 27v9.

IMO you'll never reliably decide whether or not it's less than or more than 6. Too many people inflate numbers in call outs. It's better to learn who you're fighting. Also, my point was that 3v1 may not be a "fair" fight, but at least it's fair mechanically. 3v9 is still pretty good, but getting to the point of 6v18, 9v27 you are essentially adding an extra 6 or 10.5 players to the fight via AOE caps in regards to how much damage you need to do. Certainly, if those smaller groups are trying to pick a fight go right on ahead, but to accomplish your objective and then go out of your way to kill them... I see that happen way too much.

Zerglord has spoken people!!

You shall feel the wrath of Manoekhan and my Yellow Horde.

MaxB

in my oinion zerg is the tactics when numbers of players supersedes personal skills and abillities of players in order to complete objective with 100% success rate

GRxKnight

24+

Derra wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

4-8 could be considered zerging depending on which gameplay you're taking part in.

Even though that is a full group in both ESO and DAOC.

For example during DAOC most stealthers ran as solos or duos. You would run into trios but anything past that was called a stealth Zerg. For anyone who played Merlin server they probably remember the dumba Zerg which was usually 6 to 8 stealthers.

For anything not concerning stealth based pvp it's usually anything past one group; though frankly in this game if you hit me with 7 or 8 and I had 4 I wouldn't think ya zerged me but I wouldn't fault people who did. Simply cause the group pvp in this game is very lax with what people run. It hasn't been enforced like it was in DAOC for example. If you ran for example 10vs8 in DAOC every single 8 man would shun you; they would go out of their way to Assjam your fights; if two different realms were fighting they would seriously stop and fight the 10 man as well. It was very strictly enforced not to be *** in pvp basically.

Now you look at ESO if you hit me with 10 and I had 8 I wouldn't care... I wouldn't say you zerged or what not either... Probably cause just adding another person onto the 8 isn't going to make a break the fight like adding an extra person in DAOC did... Having 2 people in DAOC add on your fight could seriously ruin your day with the interrupt system and things like buff shears for example.

however there is a certain point where past a number you are just zerging around... In DAOC it was 9+ I'd say in this game it's probably 12+ even though I'd never run 12 I see it as the number most guilds would have simply cause of trials.

Running 24 you're a damn Zerg though... There hasn't been an MMO yet running 24 people wasn't considered a Zerg.

Daoc...being relavent to explaining eso pvp mechanics since never

Daoc being relevant to giving and example of what good large scale pvp for all playstyles looks like - always. Quite the opposite of eso pvp.

So should i go ahead and say what halo did well in multiplayer and ask for that in call of duty? Or vice-versa? I mean that's essentially what is going on here. Let's stop comparing this game to others or what you want to bring from other games here.

Derra

13-14

GRxKnight wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

4-8 could be considered zerging depending on which gameplay you're taking part in.

Even though that is a full group in both ESO and DAOC.

For example during DAOC most stealthers ran as solos or duos. You would run into trios but anything past that was called a stealth Zerg. For anyone who played Merlin server they probably remember the dumba Zerg which was usually 6 to 8 stealthers.

For anything not concerning stealth based pvp it's usually anything past one group; though frankly in this game if you hit me with 7 or 8 and I had 4 I wouldn't think ya zerged me but I wouldn't fault people who did. Simply cause the group pvp in this game is very lax with what people run. It hasn't been enforced like it was in DAOC for example. If you ran for example 10vs8 in DAOC every single 8 man would shun you; they would go out of their way to Assjam your fights; if two different realms were fighting they would seriously stop and fight the 10 man as well. It was very strictly enforced not to be *** in pvp basically.

Now you look at ESO if you hit me with 10 and I had 8 I wouldn't care... I wouldn't say you zerged or what not either... Probably cause just adding another person onto the 8 isn't going to make a break the fight like adding an extra person in DAOC did... Having 2 people in DAOC add on your fight could seriously ruin your day with the interrupt system and things like buff shears for example.

however there is a certain point where past a number you are just zerging around... In DAOC it was 9+ I'd say in this game it's probably 12+ even though I'd never run 12 I see it as the number most guilds would have simply cause of trials.

Running 24 you're a damn Zerg though... There hasn't been an MMO yet running 24 people wasn't considered a Zerg.

Daoc...being relavent to explaining eso pvp mechanics since never

Daoc being relevant to giving and example of what good large scale pvp for all playstyles looks like - always. Quite the opposite of eso pvp.

So should i go ahead and say what halo did well in multiplayer and ask for that in call of duty? Or vice-versa? I mean that's essentially what is going on here. Let's stop comparing this game to others or what you want to bring from other games here.

Strawman argument. Can´t compare that situation in the slightest.

eliisra

24+

ESO is possibly the only MMO on the market where 10 players grouped on a huge open PvP map will be accused of being a zerg

I mean 10-12 guys is less than amount of players joining a normal battleground&similar PvP instance in any online game. Instanced PvP is generally considered small- to mid scale. Open world PvP maps is where you do the zerging and large scale lagfest combat.

In your average MMORPG where talking 20-30 players or more being a zerg. Not sure why ESO would be any different?