A Socrers Perspective: Why so green...

Pinja

While mainly directed at Nightblades, this post done in the defence of all Sorcs to address a few aspects combat in which we greatly receive the still shorting end of the stick.

Obviously I’m referring to our survivability, but more so to then that to address the lack of compensation & even reduction in our classes ace -ranged single target & group destruction.

Group fights are supposed to be a sorcs forte is it not? The squishiest most tasty baster ds to find outside a zerg should probably deserve to be the most at bliss in it, right. The capability to get off a line of ranged combos behind a cluster of padded men, would make you think you had the highest dps & group clear right. Well we did then the Imperial city happened, a Nightblades dream, were not only could they now catch us in close quarters & literally rob us, but be the only class with the advantage to elude add damage & just wait for that last hit. Kiting mobs, walking amongst enemy groups, it must have been amazing for the them… See for us though there’s this thing about Ai, they will walk through threw countless numbers to focus the highest single source of of damage. Not a problem all that much though in a controlled circumstance you get hit, mitigate, teleport striked into a fear & you're all ready for respawn. Needless to say you’ve died, lost 80% of your telvar, & can’t get it back as the guy that did it is too much of coward to face you once your in your mines (Ps. I don’t even use mines but classically that’s how it goes.)

But no worries he can still get a critical buffed focus aim off from stealth, & then restealth to dodge the projectile you throw in response, lest he do it from behind leaving you to only block; if you get to block with ounce of stamina you have. But know worries you're a smart Sorc & you prepop mitigation with all the abilities & magicka you have collected, in preparation for teleport strike that will come as you _must_ reset your mines. So he hits your shield with that darling shield breaker stunning you with the strike, you break free & roll out. By this time your new mines are armed, if he playing it safe he rolls out avoiding your next attack & restarts this whole fun process, if he’s feeling ambitious he’ll teleport strikes again giving you your one chance to stun & alt combo him with the meteor you walked all over ‘Daggerfall’ & Cyrodiil to realize you had to complete the campaign to go to southern hammerfell to get. Forbidding of course that he block it with the ever pools of stamina he has or that he be good Nightblade recognizing your ability & rather an ambush in to jabs to start it he ambushes into a stun-less tether, ya know the AoE class ultra, to have you break free into a fear so he can have you walk across your mines while he puts an arrow into your back knowing that unfed you only have the stamina for one break free & roll dodge not the two brake frees necessary to survive this combo. With all this leading into another strike safely taking him out the mines into finishing jabs, but wait while you were forcibly walking across those mines you regained barely enough stamina to escape from this 19sec fear giving you that breath of CC immunity necessary to immediately pop a shield & start mitigation. A that point realizing the Imperial city nerf barely gives you enough shield to survive the jabs let alone get a decent heal. Leaving you both in limbo for you to stack shields until help arrives or until he gets his ultimate back to finish you off from your slow recovery. Ignoring all that wait time of course he slaughters you the moment you break free with shield breaker. Not to say there aren't ways out of this situation, but this is just one of the basic ways ‘fighting’ a Nightblade can just plainly suck, even if were on equal damage tables they have the initiation advantage whenever…

De-initiation is also quite the thing for them & while there are ways to prevent it they’re annoying, highly skill based & costly, except for a mark by other night blades of course... Either of the two non-lingering flares for example are extremely easy to avoid & only work on the moment of contact. When fighting a decent nightblade you have to set it up like an ultra or it doesn't work. Why?? Well that's because even when you aim this flare directly centered on the location of your invisible target (thus the skill) it is still small enough an enemy AoE radius for them to roll dodge out of it or better yet, for the smart ones, simple exit then reenter stealth... Often resulting in the caster having to spam this move, wasting mana, hoping to catch their target stealthed in between. Though this is occasionally off set by the night blades own stupidity, as they spam invis after being reveled in trying to go cloaked, balancing the mana tables, but no worries that little bit of stupid is going to get corrected with the thieves guild so welcome noobs. Another quirk that makes this skill so ineffective is that even at point blank range, it fires with with the landing speed of a mid range ballista or short range catapult, giving opponents time to stealth ambush & unstealth with a buffed stunning hit while it lands, allowing them to re-enter stealth if it's not the lingering morph. Well then why use it you say, well that's because that's what we magic users have for options of course not until after we reach the max rank for alliances skills, a change that also came with the imperial city. Vigor, a night blades second best friend went from last to 2nd, ‘our’ magical detonation & flare from 3rd to last. Caltrops the staminas version of nightblade upheaval, nearly 3x heavier in radius & lasting 7x longer than lingering flare, moved from 2nd to 3rd. Magelight can be an ineffective & costly toggle & even then that's a forced morph just to ‘balance’ out a battle. At its effective range you loose & suscept yourself to a nightblades close critical weapon damage, making the move barely effective to keep a nightblade engaged in battle. In addition to that there’s the nightblades ability to double role away into stealth after you fight the odds & pumble them. Another audacious thing about this circumstance is that these moves are still specifically tailored against nightblades, pretty much useless against anything else, & barely work.

Another thing that’s barely working for us Sorcs, this LoS combat system. What was once a crouch & look for the name between the legs style of group fighting became targetless AoE ult spamming of front line damage with the drop of the Imperial city. Not to say we still don’t put in work but we probably went from the best single target focusers to 2nd if not the worst, due to the limitations of our classical positioning & capabilities within the zerg. In short front line men are capable of bypassing LoS limitations, by using armor to pursue retreating or fleeing targets beyond their line of allies, displacing groups & even grounding targets with ensnare from critical rush, (a capability being nerfed with thieves guild.) direct contact damage that potentially hinders them from reaching a healer. While picking off & focusing drifting fighters to the left or right of a zerg is still possible, any alert target can easily roll back to dodge and avoid any additional sorc attacks making jumping into a zerg to finish the fight almost necessary. As a Sorc jumping into the middle of a zerg to finish a target is doable, getting out after the rain of returning CC isn't all that much though. Complain all about shields you want but we get knocked down surrounded & targeted by five people that's practically it, the thing especially being we’re going to get knocked down or some other type of CC. Were as any nightblade not even necessarily using with the easily attainable, medium armor, crusaders set can stealth in & roll dodge away into a sprint or invisibility avoiding all non-AoE damage. As their capability easily to position behind & next to squishy distracted targets, without hinder, allowing them to get angles we can only dream to get at the mercy of our enemy’s obliviousness...

Excusing them as assassins is one thing, but another thing the imperial city patch gave night blades is the zerg clear combo of any class. When they buffed magic nightblades they must not have foreseen the consequences. Sorcs in pvp if you don’t know have their damage nerfed to usable gaul when their not buffed. When you give that untapped power to a class with weapon critical magicka based invisibility… Without offsetting it as you did the sorcs, you get two shot stealth critical buffed heavy stalf attacks that hit for 12k (ya prok frag damage), by a non-emp who also has a Full Unrevealible Stealth Combo, so you never get to attack, that does close to 35k in AoE damage within 8secs with three moves. Needless to say that's a problem, & not to long after that it become a group problem, & not long after that it became an emp problem. Eventually this problem was compensated with the passing of a moto, “... fix’s everything.” However despite the effect of those wise words the mechanic for this unnamed abomination of an attack still exists. Not to mention the audacious personal clean up potential of dark cloak & that 12k attack… It was horrendous. No where near as bad though but still nuisance_ actually compared to that last one I can’t complain… so I’m not.

Either way compared to a night blades Survivability Sorcs aren’t that bad, unlike stam users we don’t have immovable + Vigor to get us out of a bind. Nightblades won't normally have you chase them for days like we do but they'll have you sit there for days as to burst your keep the moment you leave, or until the team you just wiped shows up to do it again. I’ve seen night blades take off on foot, run down horses to hit them with Anti cavalry caltrops & still have enough stamina to fight & kill the driver. Buff sprinting in compensation to major expedition can terribly effect survivability unnecessarily in favor of Nightblades ability to chase & their already dastardly ability to run.
In closing stam Sorcs are barely a thing there not all that powerful & practically are only found as tanks. Where we otherwise mystics are as so ability reliant in our squishy struggle to survive, so that we may avoid an instant execution, that stamina vs mana should provide equal resolution. One bar Sprints provides Feats, Freedom, & Evasion. The other Plighted by cast times, animation cancels, toggles, & Major Ward.

found1779

Pinja wrote: »

While mainly directed at Nightblades, this post done in the defence of all Sorcs to address a few aspects combat in which we greatly receive the still shorting end of the stick.

Obviously I’m referring to our survivability, but more so to then that to address the lack of compensation & even reduction in our classes ace -ranged single target & group destruction.

Group fights are supposed to be a sorcs forte is it not? The squishiest most tasty baster ds to find outside a zerg should probably deserve to be the most at bliss in it, right. The capability to get off a line of ranged combos behind a cluster of padded men, would make you think you had the highest dps & group clear right. Well we did then the Imperial city happened, a Nightblades dream, were not only could they now catch us in close quarters & literally rob us, but be the only class with the advantage to elude add damage & just wait for that last hit. Kiting mobs, walking amongst enemy groups, it must have been amazing for the them… See for us though there’s this thing about Ai, they will walk through threw countless numbers to focus the highest single source of of damage. Not a problem all that much though in a controlled circumstance you get hit, mitigate, teleport striked into a fear & you're all ready for respawn. Needless to say you’ve died, lost 80% of your telvar, & can’t get it back as the guy that did it is too much of coward to face you once your in your mines (Ps. I don’t even use mines but classically that’s how it goes.)

But no worries he can still get a critical buffed focus aim off from stealth, & then restealth to dodge the projectile you throw in response, lest he do it from behind leaving you to only block; if you get to block with ounce of stamina you have. But know worries you're a smart Sorc & you prepop mitigation with all the abilities & magicka you have collected, in preparation for teleport strike that will come as you _must_ reset your mines. So he hits your shield with that darling shield breaker stunning you with the strike, you break free & roll out. By this time your new mines are armed, if he playing it safe he rolls out avoiding your next attack & restarts this whole fun process, if he’s feeling ambitious he’ll teleport strikes again giving you your one chance to stun & alt combo him with the meteor you walked all over ‘Daggerfall’ & Cyrodiil to realize you had to complete the campaign to go to southern hammerfell to get. Forbidding of course that he block it with the ever pools of stamina he has or that he be good Nightblade recognizing your ability & rather an ambush in to jabs to start it he ambushes into a stun-less tether, ya know the AoE class ultra, to have you break free into a fear so he can have you walk across your mines while he puts an arrow into your back knowing that unfed you only have the stamina for one break free & roll dodge not the two brake frees necessary to survive this combo. With all this leading into another strike safely taking him out the mines into finishing jabs, but wait while you were forcibly walking across those mines you regained barely enough stamina to escape from this 19sec fear giving you that breath of CC immunity necessary to immediately pop a shield & start mitigation. A that point realizing the Imperial city nerf barely gives you enough shield to survive the jabs let alone get a decent heal. Leaving you both in limbo for you to stack shields until help arrives or until he gets his ultimate back to finish you off from your slow recovery. Ignoring all that wait time of course he slaughters you the moment you break free with shield breaker. Not to say there aren't ways out of this situation, but this is just one of the basic ways ‘fighting’ a Nightblade can just plainly suck, even if were on equal damage tables they have the initiation advantage whenever…

De-initiation is also quite the thing for them & while there are ways to prevent it they’re annoying, highly skill based & costly, except for a mark by other night blades of course... Either of the two non-lingering flares for example are extremely easy to avoid & only work on the moment of contact. When fighting a decent nightblade you have to set it up like an ultra or it doesn't work. Why?? Well that's because even when you aim this flare directly centered on the location of your invisible target (thus the skill) it is still small enough an enemy AoE radius for them to roll dodge out of it or better yet, for the smart ones, simple exit then reenter stealth... Often resulting in the caster having to spam this move, wasting mana, hoping to catch their target stealthed in between. Though this is occasionally off set by the night blades own stupidity, as they spam invis after being reveled in trying to go cloaked, balancing the mana tables, but no worries that little bit of stupid is going to get corrected with the thieves guild so welcome noobs. Another quirk that makes this skill so ineffective is that even at point blank range, it fires with with the landing speed of a mid range ballista or short range catapult, giving opponents time to stealth ambush & unstealth with a buffed stunning hit while it lands, allowing them to re-enter stealth if it's not the lingering morph. Well then why use it you say, well that's because that's what we magic users have for options of course not until after we reach the max rank for alliances skills, a change that also came with the imperial city. Vigor, a night blades second best friend went from last to 2nd, ‘our’ magical detonation & flare from 3rd to last. Caltrops the staminas version of nightblade upheaval, nearly 3x heavier in radius & lasting 7x longer than lingering flare, moved from 2nd to 3rd. Magelight can be an ineffective & costly toggle & even then that's a forced morph just to ‘balance’ out a battle. At its effective range you loose & suscept yourself to a nightblades close critical weapon damage, making the move barely effective to keep a nightblade engaged in battle. In addition to that there’s the nightblades ability to double role away into stealth after you fight the odds & pumble them. Another audacious thing about this circumstance is that these moves are still specifically tailored against nightblades, pretty much useless against anything else, & barely work.

Another thing that’s barely working for us Sorcs, this LoS combat system. What was once a crouch & look for the name between the legs style of group fighting became targetless AoE ult spamming of front line damage with the drop of the Imperial city. Not to say we still don’t put in work but we probably went from the best single target focusers to 2nd if not the worst, due to the limitations of our classical positioning & capabilities within the zerg. In short front line men are capable of bypassing LoS limitations, by using armor to pursue retreating or fleeing targets beyond their line of allies, displacing groups & even grounding targets with ensnare from critical rush, (a capability being nerfed with thieves guild.) direct contact damage that potentially hinders them from reaching a healer. While picking off & focusing drifting fighters to the left or right of a zerg is still possible, any alert target can easily roll back to dodge and avoid any additional sorc attacks making jumping into a zerg to finish the fight almost necessary. As a Sorc jumping into the middle of a zerg to finish a target is doable, getting out after the rain of returning CC isn't all that much though. Complain all about shields you want but we get knocked down surrounded & targeted by five people that's practically it, the thing especially being we’re going to get knocked down or some other type of CC. Were as any nightblade not even necessarily using with the easily attainable, medium armor, crusaders set can stealth in & roll dodge away into a sprint or invisibility avoiding all non-AoE damage. As their capability easily to position behind & next to squishy distracted targets, without hinder, allowing them to get angles we can only dream to get at the mercy of our enemy’s obliviousness...

Excusing them as assassins is one thing, but another thing the imperial city patch gave night blades is the zerg clear combo of any class. When they buffed magic nightblades they must not have foreseen the consequences. Sorcs in pvp if you don’t know have their damage nerfed to usable gaul when their not buffed. When you give that untapped power to a class with weapon critical magicka based invisibility… Without offsetting it as you did the sorcs, you get two shot stealth critical buffed heavy stalf attacks that hit for 12k (ya prok frag damage), by a non-emp who also has a Full Unrevealible Stealth Combo, so you never get to attack, that does close to 35k in AoE damage within 8secs with three moves. Needless to say that's a problem, & not to long after that it become a group problem, & not long after that it became an emp problem. Eventually this problem was compensated with the passing of a moto, “... fix’s everything.” However despite the effect of those wise words the mechanic for this unnamed abomination of an attack still exists. Not to mention the audacious personal clean up potential of dark cloak & that 12k attack… It was horrendous. No where near as bad though but still nuisance_ actually compared to that last one I can’t complain… so I’m not.

Either way compared to a night blades Survivability Sorcs aren’t that bad, unlike stam users we don’t have immovable + Vigor to get us out of a bind. Nightblades won't normally have you chase them for days like we do but they'll have you sit there for days as to burst your keep the moment you leave, or until the team you just wiped shows up to do it again. I’ve seen night blades take off on foot, run down horses to hit them with Anti cavalry caltrops & still have enough stamina to fight & kill the driver. Buff sprinting in compensation to major expedition can terribly effect survivability unnecessarily in favor of Nightblades ability to chase & their already dastardly ability to run.
In closing stam Sorcs are barely a thing there not all that powerful & practically are only found as tanks. Where we otherwise mystics are as so ability reliant in our squishy struggle to survive, so that we may avoid an instant execution, that stamina vs mana should provide equal resolution. One bar Sprints provides Feats, Freedom, & Evasion. The other Plighted by cast times, animation cancels, toggles, & Major Ward.

Tbh if this is another magicka sorcerer post then who really cares magicka sorcerers are okay it's stamina sorcerers who needs some attention p.s. your post was to long I didn't read it

aLi3nZ

I read half of it. Seems mag sourc having issues killing nb. The patch needs cloak so don't get too salty

Pinja

aLi3nZ wrote: »

I read half of it. Seems mag sourc having issues killing nb. The patch needs cloak so don't get too salty

Alright thanks for that bit of misinformed criticism,
But lets entertain it. Say I am a noob, who went & had their character go out & memorize all of Shalidor's library, learned all these game mechanics, reach Alliance rank 7, & spec correctly enough burst damage to compensate for our nerf so I can have this pixy fight with a night blade. Comparatively to some prancing Wood Elf that said he wanted to be an archer & dual wields men, the rest class passives provide, so he can do every thing including 1vXs with a pure Stamina soul tether steel tornado combo. Or better yet they go out & freely get bit by some role player in Reapers march or Elden Hollow & turned into abominations.
I can kill a Nightblade; I can 1vX; but you best believe I put in more work then that roll dodging, crusader set buff wearing, evading invisibility mof.

KatzMainTank

Pinja wrote: »

aLi3nZ wrote: »

I read half of it. Seems mag sourc having issues killing nb. The patch needs cloak so don't get too salty

Alright thanks for that bit of misinformed criticism,
But lets entertain it. Say I am a noob, who went & had their character go out & memorize all of Shalidor's library, learned all these game mechanics, reach Alliance rank 7, & spec correctly enough burst damage to compensate for our nerf so I can have this pixy fight with a night blade. Comparatively to some prancing Wood Elf that said he wanted to be an archer & dual wields men, the rest class passives provide, so he can do every thing including 1vXs with a pure Stamina soul tether steel tornado combo. Or better yet they go out & freely get bit by some role player in Reapers march or Elden Hollow & turned into abominations.
I can kill a Nightblade; I can 1vX; but you best believe I put in more work then that roll dodging, crusader set buff wearing, evading invisibility mof.

Still sounds like you got outplayed. You can have all the spells and passives available, but knowledge of your class in a particular situation is King...CP is Queen. You didn't give enough information on your build for anyone to criticize you constructively. Just a wall of text that says "I got my [split] handed to me by an elf midget" That aside...Magicka Sorcs are still more capable than any other class right now. Stamina Sorcs need to way more attention in comparison to Magicka. Stamina templars as well.

[Edit to remove profanity]

leepalmer95

Didn't read any of it, saw it was longer than my life span and decided not to.

solynar

Not sure what you're trying to say. Could you summarize.
Paper beats rock, scissors beats paper, rock beats scissors, and rock, paper, and scissors beat noobs.