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Why did you get rid of animation canceling
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Stigant✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »It's not gone fully but almost ZOS just needs to drive that final nail to get rid of it.
Why you may ask. It is a broken mechanic that was never intentional that exploiters used to gain a very unfair advantage over others.
This mechanic actually WAS intentional, so you can react on any incoming attacks with interupt (bash), block, dodge or weapon swap in the last possibe moment, or at the moment you need/want to, or during your own action, or to be able to interrupt your own action. This was stated out loud by developers in ESO Live about a year ago. The only thing that came to them unexpected is the fact that people found a way to use it offensively. But because the combat is designed as it is they can't (don't know how or don't want to) remove animation canceling without breaking the whole game.
Every player, even those most invested against Animation Canceling, actually DO IT VERY OFTEN themselves, they just don't utilize it to its full potential.
The change they are doing is just "visual" aesthetic ... if they wanted to remove AC then they would simply put animation lock in place, like some other games do. Then you'd be complaining again that the combat is unresponsive, clunky, not fun to play at all... I belive thats one of VERY FEW THINGS they are actually doing right lately.
Its not a class specific problem, everyone can (AND IS) doing it, therefore its not exploit when someone does that, its your loss when you dont actually.
Everything you just said contradicted what you said in the first paragraph... How can AC be intentional if the aim was to have combat to be fluid and to look for cues to defend/counter?!
I think half you people whining about it, actually have no idea how this should work. And just use this as it stands because it makes you pew pew more.
Anyone arguing the fact that it is not broken and working as intended is the the land of rainbows and unicorns...
Actually I'm not contradicting myself at all, I just see a bigger picture than you ...
Imagine you are chanelling biting jabs or soul assault or rapid strikes and you see crystal frag coming your way .. you need to cancel the animation and block or dodge ... or you see a boss starting a big self-centered AoE you need to get out of ASAP .. you need to cancel the animation to roll out or move away, or swap t your second bar to teleport to your Shadow Image, or to streak ... or you need to interupt some hard hitting monster ablity in the given time window by bash ... thats the reason the AC is a part of the combat and you would be lying if you said you have never canceled animation ... the AC is there and it actually makes combat feel fluid and responsive and I firmly belive that it was intentionally made this way for those above listed reasons ...
3 -
Laranoye✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »It's not gone fully but almost ZOS just needs to drive that final nail to get rid of it.
Why you may ask. It is a broken mechanic that was never intentional that exploiters used to gain a very unfair advantage over others.
This mechanic actually WAS intentional, so you can react on any incoming attacks with interupt (bash), block, dodge or weapon swap in the last possibe moment, or at the moment you need/want to, or during your own action, or to be able to interrupt your own action. This was stated out loud by developers in ESO Live about a year ago. The only thing that came to them unexpected is the fact that people found a way to use it offensively. But because the combat is designed as it is they can't (don't know how or don't want to) remove animation canceling without breaking the whole game.
Every player, even those most invested against Animation Canceling, actually DO IT VERY OFTEN themselves, they just don't utilize it to its full potential.
The change they are doing is just "visual" aesthetic ... if they wanted to remove AC then they would simply put animation lock in place, like some other games do. Then you'd be complaining again that the combat is unresponsive, clunky, not fun to play at all... I belive thats one of VERY FEW THINGS they are actually doing right lately.
Its not a class specific problem, everyone can (AND IS) doing it, therefore its not exploit when someone does that, its your loss when you dont actually.
Everything you just said contradicted what you said in the first paragraph... How can AC be intentional if the aim was to have combat to be fluid and to look for cues to defend/counter?!
I think half you people whining about it, actually have no idea how this should work. And just use this as it stands because it makes you pew pew more.
Anyone arguing the fact that it is not broken and working as intended is the the land of rainbows and unicorns...
Actually I'm not contradicting myself at all, I just see a bigger picture than you ...
Imagine you are chanelling biting jabs or soul assault or rapid strikes and you see crystal frag coming your way .. you need to cancel the animation and block or dodge ... or you see a boss starting a big self-centered AoE you need to get out of ASAP .. you need to cancel the animation to roll out or move away, or swap t your second bar to teleport to your Shadow Image, or to streak ... or you need to interupt some hard hitting monster ablity in the given time window by bash ... thats the reason the AC is a part of the combat and you would be lying if you said you have never canceled animation ... the AC is there and it actually makes combat feel fluid and responsive and I firmly belive that it was intentionally made this way for those above listed reasons ...
lol... so much wrong.. Yes you are right.. This is what AC is for..
BUT it should not do its damage! when it is cancelled.. this is the unintended issue.. And people exploit it and say its working as intended..
We on same wave length yet?
* I really do wonder if anyone here has played any other MMO ever.. *
Edited by Laranoye on February 8, 2016 3:30PM0 -
Stigant✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »It's not gone fully but almost ZOS just needs to drive that final nail to get rid of it.
Why you may ask. It is a broken mechanic that was never intentional that exploiters used to gain a very unfair advantage over others.
This mechanic actually WAS intentional, so you can react on any incoming attacks with interupt (bash), block, dodge or weapon swap in the last possibe moment, or at the moment you need/want to, or during your own action, or to be able to interrupt your own action. This was stated out loud by developers in ESO Live about a year ago. The only thing that came to them unexpected is the fact that people found a way to use it offensively. But because the combat is designed as it is they can't (don't know how or don't want to) remove animation canceling without breaking the whole game.
Every player, even those most invested against Animation Canceling, actually DO IT VERY OFTEN themselves, they just don't utilize it to its full potential.
The change they are doing is just "visual" aesthetic ... if they wanted to remove AC then they would simply put animation lock in place, like some other games do. Then you'd be complaining again that the combat is unresponsive, clunky, not fun to play at all... I belive thats one of VERY FEW THINGS they are actually doing right lately.
Its not a class specific problem, everyone can (AND IS) doing it, therefore its not exploit when someone does that, its your loss when you dont actually.
Everything you just said contradicted what you said in the first paragraph... How can AC be intentional if the aim was to have combat to be fluid and to look for cues to defend/counter?!
I think half you people whining about it, actually have no idea how this should work. And just use this as it stands because it makes you pew pew more.
Anyone arguing the fact that it is not broken and working as intended is the the land of rainbows and unicorns...
Actually I'm not contradicting myself at all, I just see a bigger picture than you ...
Imagine you are chanelling biting jabs or soul assault or rapid strikes and you see crystal frag coming your way .. you need to cancel the animation and block or dodge ... or you see a boss starting a big self-centered AoE you need to get out of ASAP .. you need to cancel the animation to roll out or move away, or swap t your second bar to teleport to your Shadow Image, or to streak ... or you need to interupt some hard hitting monster ablity in the given time window by bash ... thats the reason the AC is a part of the combat and you would be lying if you said you have never canceled animation ... the AC is there and it actually makes combat feel fluid and responsive and I firmly belive that it was intentionally made this way for those above listed reasons ...
lol... so much wrong.. Yes you are right.. This is what AC is for..
BUT it should not do its damage! when it is cancelled.. this is the unintended issue.. And people exploit it and say its working as intended..
We on same wave length yet?
* I really do wonder if anyone here has played any other MMO ever.. *
For some reason, already explained above the abilities register hit and deal their damage at certain point of their given animation, vast majority of them is listed as instant ability on their tooltip so I dont see any good reason why they should not do damage when they are supposed to be instant and their animation gets canceled or cut in half .. it would be an issue if you could cancel animation of chaneled abiliy and make it still do its full damage, but you can't ...
As our belowed @Wrobel said, it's not exploit its unexpected outcome of intended design and you should use it .. I think you hate on it so much just because you can't and are lazy to learn how ...
I also beive that they really can't separate the originally intended purpose of AC from the offensive one that players started using ... so for the reasons I stated in my previous post the canceling stays in the game, it justgets more polished visual.
Answer to your last sentence:
DAoC, SWG (pre-Overhaul), EQ, EQ2, WoW Vanilla, WHO, AoC, SW:TOR, ESO, BnS. BDO (KR Server)Edited by Stigant on February 8, 2016 3:53PM1 -
Laranoye✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »It's not gone fully but almost ZOS just needs to drive that final nail to get rid of it.
Why you may ask. It is a broken mechanic that was never intentional that exploiters used to gain a very unfair advantage over others.
This mechanic actually WAS intentional, so you can react on any incoming attacks with interupt (bash), block, dodge or weapon swap in the last possibe moment, or at the moment you need/want to, or during your own action, or to be able to interrupt your own action. This was stated out loud by developers in ESO Live about a year ago. The only thing that came to them unexpected is the fact that people found a way to use it offensively. But because the combat is designed as it is they can't (don't know how or don't want to) remove animation canceling without breaking the whole game.
Every player, even those most invested against Animation Canceling, actually DO IT VERY OFTEN themselves, they just don't utilize it to its full potential.
The change they are doing is just "visual" aesthetic ... if they wanted to remove AC then they would simply put animation lock in place, like some other games do. Then you'd be complaining again that the combat is unresponsive, clunky, not fun to play at all... I belive thats one of VERY FEW THINGS they are actually doing right lately.
Its not a class specific problem, everyone can (AND IS) doing it, therefore its not exploit when someone does that, its your loss when you dont actually.
Everything you just said contradicted what you said in the first paragraph... How can AC be intentional if the aim was to have combat to be fluid and to look for cues to defend/counter?!
I think half you people whining about it, actually have no idea how this should work. And just use this as it stands because it makes you pew pew more.
Anyone arguing the fact that it is not broken and working as intended is the the land of rainbows and unicorns...
Actually I'm not contradicting myself at all, I just see a bigger picture than you ...
Imagine you are chanelling biting jabs or soul assault or rapid strikes and you see crystal frag coming your way .. you need to cancel the animation and block or dodge ... or you see a boss starting a big self-centered AoE you need to get out of ASAP .. you need to cancel the animation to roll out or move away, or swap t your second bar to teleport to your Shadow Image, or to streak ... or you need to interupt some hard hitting monster ablity in the given time window by bash ... thats the reason the AC is a part of the combat and you would be lying if you said you have never canceled animation ... the AC is there and it actually makes combat feel fluid and responsive and I firmly belive that it was intentionally made this way for those above listed reasons ...
lol... so much wrong.. Yes you are right.. This is what AC is for..
BUT it should not do its damage! when it is cancelled.. this is the unintended issue.. And people exploit it and say its working as intended..
We on same wave length yet?
* I really do wonder if anyone here has played any other MMO ever.. *
For some reason, already explained above the abilities register hit and deal their damage at certain point of their given animation, vast majority of them is listed as instant ability on their tooltip so I dont see any good reason why they should not do damage when they are supposed to be instant and their animation gets canceled or cut in half .. it would be an issue if you could cancel animation of chaneled abiliy and make it still do its full damage, but you can't ...
As our belowed @Wrobel said, it's not exploit its unexpected outcome of intended design and you should use it .. I think you hate on it so much just because you can't and are lazy to learn how ...
I also beive that they really can't separate the originally intended purpose of AC from the offensive one that players started using ... so for the reasons I stated in my previous post the canceling stays in the game, it justgets more polished visual.
Answer to your last sentence:
DAoC, SWG (pre-Overhaul), EQ, EQ2, WoW Vanilla, WHO, AoC, SW:TOR, ESO, BnS. BDO (KR Server)
Oh absolutely instant cast abilities should do damage,.. that goes without saying.. But heavy hitting abilities with cast(ish) timers should NOT do damage upon cancellation.
As you stated about DoTS yes I thoroughly agree with this.. But it should e the same for all timed casts..
Otherwise technically I should be able to AC jezus beams and Jabs and forget about it and use other abilities.. (I know I shouldn't as it is a DoT, I'm just trying to comparison.)Edited by Laranoye on February 8, 2016 4:19PM0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »It's not gone fully but almost ZOS just needs to drive that final nail to get rid of it.
Why you may ask. It is a broken mechanic that was never intentional that exploiters used to gain a very unfair advantage over others.
This mechanic actually WAS intentional, so you can react on any incoming attacks with interupt (bash), block, dodge or weapon swap in the last possibe moment, or at the moment you need/want to, or during your own action, or to be able to interrupt your own action. This was stated out loud by developers in ESO Live about a year ago. The only thing that came to them unexpected is the fact that people found a way to use it offensively. But because the combat is designed as it is they can't (don't know how or don't want to) remove animation canceling without breaking the whole game.
Every player, even those most invested against Animation Canceling, actually DO IT VERY OFTEN themselves, they just don't utilize it to its full potential.
The change they are doing is just "visual" aesthetic ... if they wanted to remove AC then they would simply put animation lock in place, like some other games do. Then you'd be complaining again that the combat is unresponsive, clunky, not fun to play at all... I belive thats one of VERY FEW THINGS they are actually doing right lately.
Its not a class specific problem, everyone can (AND IS) doing it, therefore its not exploit when someone does that, its your loss when you dont actually.
Everything you just said contradicted what you said in the first paragraph... How can AC be intentional if the aim was to have combat to be fluid and to look for cues to defend/counter?!
I think half you people whining about it, actually have no idea how this should work. And just use this as it stands because it makes you pew pew more.
Anyone arguing the fact that it is not broken and working as intended is the the land of rainbows and unicorns...
Actually I'm not contradicting myself at all, I just see a bigger picture than you ...
Imagine you are chanelling biting jabs or soul assault or rapid strikes and you see crystal frag coming your way .. you need to cancel the animation and block or dodge ... or you see a boss starting a big self-centered AoE you need to get out of ASAP .. you need to cancel the animation to roll out or move away, or swap t your second bar to teleport to your Shadow Image, or to streak ... or you need to interupt some hard hitting monster ablity in the given time window by bash ... thats the reason the AC is a part of the combat and you would be lying if you said you have never canceled animation ... the AC is there and it actually makes combat feel fluid and responsive and I firmly belive that it was intentionally made this way for those above listed reasons ...
lol... so much wrong.. Yes you are right.. This is what AC is for..
BUT it should not do its damage! when it is cancelled.. this is the unintended issue.. And people exploit it and say its working as intended..
We on same wave length yet?
* I really do wonder if anyone here has played any other MMO ever.. *
For some reason, already explained above the abilities register hit and deal their damage at certain point of their given animation, vast majority of them is listed as instant ability on their tooltip so I dont see any good reason why they should not do damage when they are supposed to be instant and their animation gets canceled or cut in half .. it would be an issue if you could cancel animation of chaneled abiliy and make it still do its full damage, but you can't ...
As our belowed @Wrobel said, it's not exploit its unexpected outcome of intended design and you should use it .. I think you hate on it so much just because you can't and are lazy to learn how ...
I also beive that they really can't separate the originally intended purpose of AC from the offensive one that players started using ... so for the reasons I stated in my previous post the canceling stays in the game, it justgets more polished visual.
Answer to your last sentence:
DAoC, SWG (pre-Overhaul), EQ, EQ2, WoW Vanilla, WHO, AoC, SW:TOR, ESO, BnS. BDO (KR Server)
Oh absolutely instant cast abilities should do damage,.. that goes without saying.. But heavy hitting abilities with cast(ish) timers should NOT do damage upon cancellation.
As you stated about DoTS yes I thoroughly agree with this.. But it should e the same for all timed casts..
Otherwise technically I should be able to AC jezus beams and Jabs and forget about it and use other abilities.. (I know I shouldn't as it is a DoT, I'm just trying to comparison.)
But casttime abilities use the same mechanics as instant ones when it comes to cancelling - with all skills you have to wait for the windup animation to complete before it will take effect, cancelled or not. With casttime abilities you just have an additional casttime at the start during wich you can get interrupted.Edited by ToRelax on February 8, 2016 4:44PMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Steel_Brightblade✭✭✭✭So if I understand this correctly, the required "skill" (see macro) is still the same but the ability used is no longer a secret giving players a chance to see what's hitting and reacting to it? If this is the case surely its a good thing. Those that claimed it was all down to skill will still do more dps than those that don't have the macro um skill. Really don't see the problem with this as my biggest issue with animation canceling was death to a random flicker from my opponent.2 -
Laranoye✭✭✭But casttime abilities use the same mechanics as instant ones when it comes to cancelling - with all skills you have to wait for the windup animation to complete before it will take effect, cancelled or not. With casttime abilities you just have an additional casttime at the start during wich you can get interrupted.
Yes, And you should be interrupted (cancelled) and not cause damage. Casted abilities generally cause ALOT more damage in one go than instant cast/DoTS...
What additional time to be interrupted for windup of what? 0.3 seconds... not even the %^&$£$% Flash could dodge/block that.
With the changes now its only a bit better, Not much.. But I imagine on TG release, the whiners and exploiters who want more pew pew at the expense of game play will win and AC will be back to its former tardyness.
Even someone with a few brain-cells can see it is NOT intended because they are systematically changing the way AC works?! You know trying to fix it....
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Mulcibur✭✭✭Please provide feedback and comments on the official thread:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245038/official-feedback-thread-for-prioritization-of-combat-animations
Status so far:
Block canceling does not work for most magicka abilities, still works for stam abilities. All other forms of animation canceling still work (weaving light attack, skill).1 -
bhlegit✭✭✭THISOkay, the title is everything you need: why did you get rid of animation canceling?
You claimed that it was intended to exist and it was a matter of player's skills, now you get rid of it?
What was the issue?
AND THIS
ZOS please exlpain why you removed it when no one asked for it.0 -
bhlegit✭✭✭Okay, the title is everything you need: why did you get rid of animation canceling?
You claimed that it was intended to exist and it was a matter of player's skills, now you get rid of it?
What was the issue?
Because it was the sensible thing to do? It was basically exploiting and used by people who cannot play the game properly.
- urrrm are we even playing the same game?1 -
bhlegit✭✭✭Seems like everyone besides me can animation canceling properly. I will check again when it goes live then, might be an issue of latency (i'm playing in EU)
no the people who are saying it still works are for whatever reason not telling the whole truth - block cancelling does not work, theres no other way to put it. this is VERY detremental for anyone who plays with a staff because you have effectively nullified light attack weaving with crushing shock. not to mention skills on their own cannot be block cancelled. But for a stamina class you can still cancel heavy attackinto skill, not for staff anymore it does not work. As i said in another thread please come to pts and show me that it works. You will not be able to. Both animations are playing out to their entirety, which means there is no cancnelling at all. All these people commenting saying they like the changes either do not animation cancel on live or I dont know maybe they're the secret lobbyists to get rid of animation cancelling. All I can say is im stumped because you say it works, but it clearly does not.0 -
bhlegit✭✭✭Please provide feedback and comments on the official thread:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245038/official-feedback-thread-for-prioritization-of-combat-animations
Status so far:
Block canceling does not work for most magicka abilities, still works for stam abilities. All other forms of animation canceling still work (weaving light attack, skill).
weaving crushing shock with light or med attack with staff does not work - you still see both animations play out, whereas on live you can do light attack crushing block rinse repeat, now block doesn't register until the animation has played, rendering weaving useless because you are essentially just doing light attack then crushing shock not cancelled. meaning no cancelling of animations at all because they both play out before you can block let alone wind up another attack.0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Post your feedback here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245038/official-feedback-thread-for-prioritization-of-combat-animations
Give them information on what's changed which you're not happy with, examples, videos, numbers etc. Rage threads don't help them improve the game.
Where do you see a rage post? I posted a simple question and stated how controversial this change is with what they said long ago.
Except you're wrong.:trollin:0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I am saying that they got rid of the skill's animation canceling. The only thing that changed is the animation happening between light/heavy attack and the skill itself. For example, trying to press block/bash will not cancel or block the animation (animation canceling): the animation of the skill will complete with no chances to be interrupted by the player. Let's pretend I am casting a skill against an enemy who's casting a channeled ability: I will have to wait for my skill to complete its animation before being able to interrupt the opponent with a bash.
Again, they did not.:trollin:0 -
bhlegit✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I am saying that they got rid of the skill's animation canceling. The only thing that changed is the animation happening between light/heavy attack and the skill itself. For example, trying to press block/bash will not cancel or block the animation (animation canceling): the animation of the skill will complete with no chances to be interrupted by the player. Let's pretend I am casting a skill against an enemy who's casting a channeled ability: I will have to wait for my skill to complete its animation before being able to interrupt the opponent with a bash.
Again, they did not.
yes they did, you need to either go and test it yourself or stop commenting.1 -
bhlegit✭✭✭again - when using a staff - if you wait for light attack to hit before pressing skill (as in diagram) then there is clearly no animation cancelling involved as you are letting both animations play out in their entirety. They are just words designed to please the people upset about animation cancelling and confuse those who use it with every skill cast and are used to their current rhythm of attack. In practice it does not work. full stop.Edited by bhlegit on February 9, 2016 9:49PM1
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Aunatar✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I can assure you I have better things to do than trolling on the forum@Aunatar
V16 Sorcerer - Aunatar
V16 DK - Aunatarans (Currently main)
V16 DK - Aunatar Evereth
V16 DK - Aunataran
V16 NB - Aunatars
V4 Templar - Lysindel
Lvl 30 NB - Vile Aunataroni De Pipino
Free spot, looking for suggestions0 -
![[Deleted User]](https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/06301530861bfae62d56b72eef4ac33d.png)
[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenHello all!
This post is to let you know that we've locked this thread. We suggest continuing further discussion of the matter on the forums thread below:
Official Feedback Thread for Prioritization of Combat Animations
While continuing the discussion on the mentioned thread, please be sure to stay civil and constructive towards the topic. As always, please be sure that you are keeping the Forum Rules in mind while making posting on any thread.
Many thanks!0
This discussion has been closed.