Champion System Changes and what needs to change still.

Xantaria

Very Concerned about Championsystem I really hope you are going to take a look:

So you made it so Elemental Expert basically increases all Magicka based damage now. This is really good for Magicka builds. They will have all their damage increased. Be it Magic / Fire / Poison / Frost or Lightning Damage. There is pretty much no ability that Scales with Magicka and deals Physical Damage except for the Dragonknight's Dragon Leap.

BUT

Stamina builds that have different sources of damage don't get anything. A Stamina DK gains a lot of his damage from Fire Damage. And he still needs to split points between Mighty and Elemental Expert. A Stamina Nightblade will have similar issues because of the Magic Damage he does. Same goes for Stamina Templars and Sorcerers. To me it sounded like they wanted exactly this to be gone. Apparently only in favor of Magicka builds.

They should have just made:

Elemental Expert: Increases all Magicka based Damage
Mighty: Increases all Stamina based Damage

Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Thaumaturge.
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Penetration
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Critical Damage
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Elemental Expert
Stamina builds need Mighty
Magicka builds do NOT need Mighty because they don't do any Physical Damage.

So to increase DPS Magicka builds need 4 different passives and Stamina builds need 5 different passives. This is hurting Stamina builds a lot expecially given the fact we only have 167 CP to spend. Magicka builds need 100 CP to increase all their Damage by 25%. Stamina builds need 200 CP to increase all their Damage by 25%.

For the love of god, please please think about changing it to what I suggested.

Xjcon

Magicka DK will now have to split their points between Elemental Expert and Thaumatarge since they rely alot on dots.

elium85

@Xjcon Yes but for a higher overall damage. Those last 10-15 points in Elemental Expert will go a long way in Thaumaturge DoT damage on a Magicka DK.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Sigh ppffttt uh ..... hardy reduces physical damage which nice for tanks and elemental reduces magicka now and HA expert increases armor by a flat amount.... Eh guess we'll see what is what when PTS drops.

Xantaria

Xjcon wrote: »

Magicka DK will now have to split their points between Elemental Expert and Thaumatarge since they rely alot on dots.

And Stamina DK does aswell so that's not really an argument.

Xantaria

bumping this up would love to hear more feedback and would be expecially grateful for some ZOs feedback

actosh

What concerns me the most is that penetration can become pretty strong and if u build right, armor wont have any effect in PvP. For Pve this could be nice, depending on the bosses armor/spellres.

Overall i support the suggestions u made, otherwise it will gimp stam a bit, and give a huge benefit to magig builds.

Ghostbane

Just gonna dump this in here from the other thread,

Ghostbane wrote: »

After a bit of playing about with CP values on my sorc, I have noticed that Thaumaturge is still increasing magic damage, whereas Elemental Expert does not.

Confirmed this by dumping 100 CP into Elemental Expert, then Thaumaturge and checking Crystal Frags, Magicka Det tooltip values etc. Took everything out of Thaumaturge and put it into another un-relative passives (piercing), the magic damage went down again.

Xantaria

Ghostbane wrote: »

Just gonna dump this in here from the other thread,

Ghostbane wrote: »

After a bit of playing about with CP values on my sorc, I have noticed that Thaumaturge is still increasing magic damage, whereas Elemental Expert does not.

Confirmed this by dumping 100 CP into Elemental Expert, then Thaumaturge and checking Crystal Frags, Magicka Det tooltip values etc. Took everything out of Thaumaturge and put it into another un-relative passives (piercing), the magic damage went down again.

Yeah it's currently not working as it should. I'm going from what they said is going to happen with the Champion System Passives.

Emma_Overload

Xantaria wrote: »

Very Concerned about Championsystem I really hope you are going to take a look:

So you made it so Elemental Expert basically increases all Magicka based damage now. This is really good for Magicka builds.

BUT

Stamina builds that have different sources of damage don't get anything. A Stamina DK gains a lot of his damage from Fire Damage. And he still needs to split points between Mighty and Elemental Expert. A Stamina Nightblade will have similar issues because of the Magic Damage he does. To me it sounded like they wanted exactly this to be gone. Apparently only in favor of Magicka builds.

They should have just made:

Elemental Expert: Increases all Magicka based Damage
Mighty: Increases all Stamina based Damage

Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Thaumaturge.
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Penetration
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Critical Damage
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Elemental Expert
Stamina builds need Mighty
Magicka builds do NOT need Mighty because they don't do any Physical Damage.

So to increase DPS Magicka builds need 4 different passives.
and Stamina builds need 5 different passives.

That's funny you use a DK as an example for your flawed argument, because Magicka DKs DO need Mighty if they want to enhance the damage for Dragon Leap or whatever it's called. Stamina DKs are lucky because ZOS threw them a bone there... most classes don't even have an Ultimate that scales off Physical damage.

Xantaria

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Very Concerned about Championsystem I really hope you are going to take a look:

So you made it so Elemental Expert basically increases all Magicka based damage now. This is really good for Magicka builds.

BUT

Stamina builds that have different sources of damage don't get anything. A Stamina DK gains a lot of his damage from Fire Damage. And he still needs to split points between Mighty and Elemental Expert. A Stamina Nightblade will have similar issues because of the Magic Damage he does. To me it sounded like they wanted exactly this to be gone. Apparently only in favor of Magicka builds.

They should have just made:

Elemental Expert: Increases all Magicka based Damage
Mighty: Increases all Stamina based Damage

Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Thaumaturge.
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Penetration
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Critical Damage
Both Stamina and Magicka builds need Elemental Expert
Stamina builds need Mighty
Magicka builds do NOT need Mighty because they don't do any Physical Damage.

So to increase DPS Magicka builds need 4 different passives.
and Stamina builds need 5 different passives.

That's funny you use a DK as an example for your flawed argument, because Magicka DKs DO need Mighty if they want to enhance the damage for Dragon Leap or whatever it's called. Stamina DKs are lucky because ZOS threw them a bone there... most classes don't even have an Ultimate that scales off Physical damage.

So you're telling me that because you use Dragon Leap (which is bad in itself you have better options) once every minute which will be like 2-5% of your overall dmg output you will put points into mighty?

I'm sorry but your argument is flawed.

Stamina DKs have like 30% Fire dmg output. they NEED the points in Elemental Expert no way around it.

And as I said. Every Stamina class has the same issue:

Stamina Templar: needs Magic Damage
Stamina DK: needs Fire Damage
Stamina Sorcerer: Needs Lightning / Magic Damage
Stamina Nightblade: Needs Magic Damage

Magicka Sorcerer: Does not need Mighty at all
Magicka Nightblade: Does not need Mighty at all
Magicka Templar: Does not need Mighty at all
Magicka Dragonknight: Has 1 ability (ultimate) which deals Physical Damage.

Also you're forgetting that my suggestion WOULD make your CP increase Dragon Leap Damage as a Magicka build.

Emma_Overload

Also, you're forgetting that many Magicka builds will need to invest in the new Mighty passive (or whatever it's called now) if they want to improve the damage from Poison effects from Magicka abilities like Poison Miist and certain procs from gear sets.

code65536

It would be nice if they changed the Killer's Blade morph to do Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

Xantaria

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Also, you're forgetting that many Magicka builds will need to invest in the new Mighty passive (or whatever it's called now) if they want to improve the damage from Poison effects from Magicka abilities like Poison Miist and certain procs from gear sets.

You didn't read. This passive is called Thaumaturge it increases DoT damage and Both Stamina and Magicka builds need it. Also I suggest reading the patch notes again I feel like some stuff you said is not adding up at all.

Xantaria

code65536 wrote: »

It would be nice if they changed the Killer's Blade morph to do Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

Or just make Mighty increase all Stamina based Damage and thus also increase Killer's Blade Damage along with any other nonphysical damage ability other stamina builds have to rely on.

Edziu

nvm

Xantaria

Edziu wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

It would be nice if they changed the Killer's Blade morph to do Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

Or just make Mighty increase all Stamina based Damage and thus also increase Killer's Blade Damage along with any other nonphysical damage ability other stamina builds have to rely on.

no I'm not convinced for it...if it will be like you saying...then killers blade will be better or more balanced with dmg with executioner from 2h, at this moment with psychical damage from executioner i have hits for around 40k crit, when with killers blade maybe around 30k

And with this change they would hit for pretty much the same. which is good!

Helluin

This issue applies also to Ultimates, Power Extraction (NB stamina morph), Assasin's Will (NB - Grim Focus), Fighters Guild's skills and Ultimate.

I agree with you @Xantaria and your idea would fix it but, how can you deal with Ultimates and Assasin's Will?

Jar_Ek

Actually stamina sorcerers have no lightning damage abilities worth jack if we exclude Overload which about 50% less damage for stamina builds... No one uses Thunderous Presence because it's so expensive to maintain.

Reorx_Holybeard

Something is mixed up with Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert. With 77 points in Thaumaturge my tooltip spell damage was:

• Radiant Oppression = 15468
• Dark Flare = 15694

Removing the 77 points in Thaumaturge it changed to:

• Radiant Oppression = 14964
• Dark Flare = 12565

Putting those 77 points into Elemental Expert it changed to:

• Radiant Oppression = 15694
• Dark Flare = 12989

GreenSoup2HoT

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Also, you're forgetting that many Magicka builds will need to invest in the new Mighty passive (or whatever it's called now) if they want to improve the damage from Poison effects from Magicka abilities like Poison Miist and certain procs from gear sets.

Poison Mist xD your funny

Xantaria

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Actually stamina sorcerers have no lightning damage abilities worth jack if we exclude Overload which about 50% less damage for stamina builds... No one uses Thunderous Presence because it's so expensive to maintain.

Overload would be GOOD on Stam Sorc if my suggestion would go through.

Xantaria

Helluin wrote: »

This issue applies also to Ultimates, Power Extraction (NB stamina morph), Assasin's Will (NB - Grim Focus), Fighters Guild's skills and Ultimate.

I agree with you @Xantaria and your idea would fix it but, how can you deal with Ultimates and Assasin's Will?

If your highest Attribute is Stamina make them scale with Stamina. Thus Mighty would enhance their damage with my suggestion.
This goes vice versa for Magicka.

Rune_Relic

I think it would be easier for stamina morphs to do physical damage rather than magical damage really.
Other than that though I agree on
1. merging thermatauge with mighty or
2. splitting spell damage from elemental expert.

Personally I think Dots and Direct damage should be split to enable one for hybird and one for DPS at some point.
Regardless DoTs and DD are different categories that shoudlnt be mixed.
1. Bleed + Poison + Disease as Stamina DoTs
2. Direct Physical Damage
3. Fire + Frost + Lightining as Magicka DoTs
4. Direct Magical damage.
5. Stamina costed Morphs = Physical Damage
6. Magicka costed Morphs = Magical Damage.
Seems completely balanced and fair to me.
/shrugs

olsborg

Yea, they should change it so skills are "smart" with champion system, if it uses stamina or takes its dmg from stamina or weapon dmg(ultimates), it should scale of mighty.

Rune_Relic

Ritual...

Precise Strikes
Increases the Critical Damage of your physical attacks by [x]%.

Piercing
Increases the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by [x]%.

Thaumaturge
Increases your Poison, Disease and Bleed Damage by [x]%.

Mighty
Increases your Physical Damage by [x]%.


Apprentic...

Elfborn
Increases your Spell Critical damage and Healing Critical by [x]%.

Spell Erosion
Increases the amount of Spell Resistance your Spells ignore by [x]%.

Elemental Expert
Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by [x]%.

Blessed
Increases your Magical Damage and healing by [x]%.

Sugram22

Xantaria wrote: »

Very Concerned about Championsystem I really hope you are going to take a look:

Stamina builds that have different sources of damage don't get anything. A Stamina DK gains a lot of his damage from Fire Damage. And he still needs to split points between Mighty and Elemental Expert. A Stamina Nightblade will have similar issues because of the Magic Damage he does. Same goes for Stamina Templars and Sorcerers. To me it sounded like they wanted exactly this to be gone. Apparently only in favor of Magicka builds.
.

i only take mighty with Stam DK, & i only use fiery breath & Talons + Green Dragon blood, i take Thaumaturge instead of Elemental expert, cause elemental defender counters elemental expert, Thaumaturge increases spell dam, each time i take it my spell dam goes up, i go over to slotted spell to look its dam & i see its increased, so the magic that its written on that skill means overall magic, i have seen ppl who don't know that so i figured i should explain, but seems elemental expert will changes in to what Thaumaturge's increased Magic dam does right new, fiery breath is DPS for just support, & it dam increases with lvl a bit, i always go full out for 1 type, 1 armor type & 1 stat & 1 type, if stamina then only what helps my Psy dam

sry if my spelling is bad, eng is not my first lang

Sugram22

but i agree it is a problem, cause cause of that my fire dam is bit weaker

Sugram22

CP build i go for, my future plan
http://deltiasgaming.com/champion/?b=00251e000000000000000064006400004300000000000000320019002e002e0000000000

Armor Focus & spell shield are useless, no help at all, tried & did reset

Sugram22

they should do the sys like both stam & magic builds both are favored, so game wouldn't punish u when u chose stamina, or what u chose magic, the last part i said just in case they decide to do it reverse & make magic suck hard

Sugram22

when i mentioned Thaumaturge my topic went from stam DK to my magic DK