Official Feedback Thread for Thieves Guild

Sidney

Enodoc wrote: »

Sidney wrote: »

All of the "official blah blah" threads need to be stickied because when they get even half way down the page, people get lazy and miss them. I feel I should never see an official feedback thread near the bottom of the page.

@Sidney There's too many of them to sticky. That's why this one is stickied.

@Enodoc I don't believe it's too many, and I already see plenty of people making new posts that are directly related to the official discussion threads. If they were up at the top, stickied, maybe people would use them. It also means peoples posts are pushed on to second and third page and less chance of their opinions being heard.

It would be best to keep them stickied in one place so that the responses are also in one place because that's the entire purpose of creating the official discussion threads.

Not everyone reads all those posts as much as we do, unfortunately.

Ra'Shtar

Has anyone found a statue to Nocturnal?

Khamira

Overall my feedback @ Thieves Guild DLC:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y

But it was hard at first to find the quest, I tried to use wayshrine to Hew's Bane but there were none. After a while I figured this whole "begin quest" in te collections screen.

Enodoc

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Has anyone found a statue to Nocturnal?

No, haven't found one. I'm assuming that was done away with; all of the references to Nocturnal appear to be tied into a previous iteration of the Thieves Guild (along with the Violet Lamp as the enemy faction), as I haven't found anything about her (or them) at all.

Anska

• How did you initially get to Abah’s Landing?
  I went to the Daggerfall Outlaws Refuge an got it from Quen. It seemed to be the most likely place to get it.
• If you got the quest from the Collections UI, was it easy to find?
  Once you know you can get it from the Collections UI, it is easy to find. But as was already stated above, you can very easily miss the whole DLC tab ... especially if you have a subscription.
• How did you find the pacing of the Thieves Guild storyline?
  I only really started playing on PTS yesterday and just returned from listening to some highly interesting conversations in a tailor-made suit - so I am not that far along, I guess. However I think it is well paced, nicely narrated and entertaining to this point. I just have one tiny suggestion concerning Zeira:
  I can understand how Quen would take a total stranger along on a very important job - she seems to be that type of person. However I can't understand how nobody scrutinises Zeira, who afterall is the only person who survived a heist in which all of the other senior guildmembers died. I really would like an option to ask the other thieves why they don't believe that Zeira betrayed them. Especially if in the end it turns out that she did do something to botch the Dowry Heist - as she implies herself - I think it's absolutely crucial to establish her as trustworthy and beyond reproach in the beginning.
• How much time did you spend earning Thieves Guild reputation in between questing?
  That's quite hard to say, because I took a couple of breaks between. It felt appropriate though.
• Were the additions of hiding spots and trespassing understood while completing Thieves Guild quests? Did they make sense?
  They did make sense and were understood, though I too encountered a couple of hiding spots that weren't highlighted in stealth. While the tresspassing mechanism generally makes sense there are some areas, especially near the harbour of Abah's Landing where you rapidly leave and enter tresspassing areas. Some of them have been patched in build 2.3.1 but the area behind the Leaping Frog Sundries ist still very indecisive in this regard.
• Do you have any general feedback for these mechanics?
  I like them, you finally get a bounty for being caught tresspassing!
• If you received a bounty while trespassing, did it make sense why you received it?
  Generally yes. Why one NPC spots you and another doesn't could be a bit more obvious though. Sometimes someone spots you from literaly the other side of a spacious room in another situation I jumped down from a roof, landed exactly in front of a guard but still didn't get any bounty because I vanished quickly enough.
• Did you understand what to do once you entered an area you were trespassing into?
  Keep my head down, avoid the guards, hide in a barrel if necessary, stick to the highways if possible ... steal stuff.
• What did you think of the new enemies while performing a heist (the clairvoyant and the lookout enemies)?
  I didn't notice any enemies specifically named this way, could you please give an example where to encounter them? The enemies with the lanterns are a nice addition in case you mean those.
• Did you participate in any other criminal activity? If so, what did you do, and how did you like it?
  I randomly broke into some houses in Abah's Landing and have mixed feelings about it. Gameplay wise the larger estates (e.g. Sulima Mansion and Velmont Mansion) are very well done: If you pay attention you can evade the NPC even without using invisbility too often and there are enough places to hide, be it hiding spots or ordinary furniture. The smaller houses still feel a little crowded though. I once entered Jamadin's House and both ground floor NPC were staring right at me. For characters that aren't Nightblades these houses shouldn't be very enjoyable - also please allow the character to remain stealthed after entering a room.
  
  Apart from that I would like to find more interesting details about the characters living in the houses I break into. You know: Diaries, letters, hidden rooms, a hint that a well respected mage writes jucy romance novels in his pastime - small personal secrets in general, which make you want to uncover them all. Also I would like the ability to follow random leeds, for example:
  Near the table where Spencer Rye is sitting in the beginning hangs a note that Walks-Softly is looking for an informant who went missing recently. The hint points to the tavern. So I went to the tavern, looked around and eventually broke into the personal storage. Here I found a hint that she was most likely captured by slavers but unfortunately no follow up clues as to where to find her. Neither can I talk to Walks-Softly about it.
• Were you able to locate the Thieves Den in Abah’s Landing?
  Easily!
• Did you find and/or complete the Cutpurse Above achievement, which awards the Master Thief title?
  Finding Kari's list wasn't that easy because it looks just like all the other decorative, unuseable items on the table. Could please make it shiny like all the other readable documents in the Den. Also could you please allow the player to pick up a "hardcopy" of the list for the inventory like you did with the Curator's list in Wrothgar. I started a new character on the PTS who doesn't have Eidetic Memory, so I have to actually remember all the items Kari is looking for ... or make a screenshot.
• Did you receive the edict item?
  I did and I did use it and I think it's a good addition. Especially if you start a new character who doesn't have any points in the Legerdemain skill line yet you are bound to get bounty on your head at some point and the edicts are a very good way to keep your loot if you sit in a tight spot and don't want to wait for your bounty to wear off.
• Do you have any other general feedback?
  Plenty. I'll start with the good stuff: I love Abah's Landing an the Thieves Den. I could probably spent hours just looking around and enjoying all the little details and the wonderful new animations you added. That tailor shop is amazing and so is the Den in general. There is one tiny insicnificant detail though, that I would like to espeacially thank you for: The Thieves Den actually has beds. In the previous games your character was always offered a place to stay in the guildhalls and while I know this is of no importance in the online game, I still felt a little disapointed that most guildhalls lacked this kind of hospitality.
  
  Thieves Troves
  While I generally like them, there are three things which could be improved: As was already mentioned, please allow the character to stay hidden while opening them and make the items inside match the character's level. Secondly the shipments you can find in the troves are called "laundered shipments" indicating they are "clean" which they are not, as they and their content are marked stolen in the inventory. While this is only a minor confusion, it is a confusion easily avoided by simply renaming the item.
  
  Traps
  I am not sure if this is intentional or simply not completely finished yet, but I find it very confusing that traps are stealth highlighted in some areas and are not in others or that some traps are while others are not. For example in Shark's Teeth Grotto the blue stealth-traps (the once that you can hardly miss anyway) are highlighted while all the others aren't. Also I think the trigger radius of the poison jars is a bit large. I triggered some by barely gracing their explosion radius and that seems a little wide, especially since you can't seem to trigger them from the distance and they are often placed in tight spots.
  
  Tip Board
  While I don't find these quests overly exciting, they are a good addition to skilling Legerdemain and general questing in my eyes. I'm not really leveling my character on the PTS but if I was, I think those are the type of quest you can nicely do along the way. The only thing I find really (!) annoying about them is, that you can only get them from Abah's Landing. So with my lvl 7 character I have to travel to Abah's Landing to get the quest, travel back to Daggerfall to complete it and travel back again to turn it in - that's a whole lot of porting around for one quest. Couldn't you please ask Kari to send a trustet co-worker to the outlaws refuges so local jobs can get handeled locally and you can simply pick up your Tip Board quests when selling stuff to the fences anyway. Pretty please? It would be extrodinarily helpful.
  
  Covetous Countess
  It's only time-consuming the first time around. She always seems to want three of the same item-types (dolls, games, statues in my case). If you bring her 3 dolls she is perfectly content. As items stolen and laundered before accepting the quest count towards its completion, you can simply launder and keep all those poor unloved hagraven plushies you find along the way and bring them to the Countess when the quest comes up - Easily the fastest quest with the best reward.
  
  Pickpocketing Quests
  The counting doesn't work. If I find 1 of the required item type it counts as 2 random items ( showing as 1/3 and 2/10), once you stole your share the quest is marked as completed and I can turn it in but the counter resets instead of simply disappearing. Apart from that it works fine.
  
  Kari's Special List
  I really enjoy these treasure-hunt not-quests. The museum in Orsinium is superb and I had tons of fun looking for the lost objects. Kari's list on the other hand is a little too well informed for my taste. You don't really have to search for anything since the directions most of the time even point you to the right building. I would prefer it, if the directions were a little more vague or that once you reached the supposed destination the object had already been moved.
  
  For example, the hint for the Dwarven "centerpiece" doesn't have to say that it is repaired at the Mages Guild - who else would repair Dwarven technology?
  
  In the case of the terrible poetry of the first king of Wayrest instead of finding the unpublished book at the Mages Guild you could find a letter of one of the mages informing the local guildmaster, that he finally got rid of this horrible book by giving it as a present to Emeric, heading over to the palace you'll find another hint telling you that the shameful yet valuable piece was given to the local Fighers Guild for safekeeping. Here you'll find another note that the guild members were just making so much fun of the blasted book, that the guildmaster was forced to place it in the guild's bank safe to restore order. After that you of course have to break into the bank. A "Master Thief" title should be a bit of a challenge ... and the Wayrest Treasury is just begging for being broken into.
  
  Also I would like to be able to find special things Kari isn't even looking for in the first place - like the quest-dungeon souvenirs you could find in Skyrim. (The ones you could sell to Delvin.)

Enodoc

Some great points in this post ^ ^ . I wanted to echo some of the ones I agree with:

Anska wrote: »

I can understand how Quen would take a total stranger along on a very important job - she seems to be that type of person. However I can't understand how nobody scrutinises Zeira, who afterall is the only person who survived a heist in which all of the other senior guildmembers died. I really would like an option to ask the other thieves why they don't believe that Zeira betrayed them. Especially if in the end it turns out that she did do something to botch the Dowry Heist - as she implies herself - I think it's absolutely crucial to establish her as trustworthy and beyond reproach in the beginning.

This is a good point.

I wondered myself why she was the only survivor and why nobody seems to be concerned by that fact.

I didn't notice any enemies specifically named this way, could you please give an example where to encounter them? The enemies with the lanterns are a nice addition in case you mean those.

The lantern enemies are the "clairvoyant" enemies. I'm not sure what a lookout enemy is either.

Finding Kari's list wasn't that easy because it looks just like all the other decorative, unuseable items on the table. Could please make it shiny like all the other readable documents in the Den. Also could you please allow the player to pick up a "hardcopy" of the list for the inventory like you did with the Curator's list in Wrothgar. I started a new character on the PTS who doesn't have Eidetic Memory, so I have to actually remember all the items Kari is looking for ... or make a screenshot.

I agree on both of these points. Having a copy of the list that you can always refer to (without having Eidetic) would be very useful.

The only thing I find really (!) annoying about them is, that you can only get them from Abah's Landing. So with my lvl 7 character I have to travel to Abah's Landing to get the quest, travel back to Daggerfall to complete it and travel back again to turn it in - that's a whole lot of porting around for one quest. Couldn't you please ask Kari to send a trustet co-worker to the outlaws refuges so local jobs can get handeled locally and you can simply pick up your Tip Board quests when selling stuff to the fences anyway. Pretty please? It would be extrodinarily helpful.

Excellent idea; there's enough space in the Outlaws Refuges to fit a Tip Board in somewhere, and it would be great to not have to trek back to Abah's Landing for every turn-in. This suggestion would go well with my request to have Andarri appear in every Outlaws Refuge when a new Guild Storyline quest is available.

Ra'Shtar

Enodoc wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Has anyone found a statue to Nocturnal?

No, haven't found one. I'm assuming that was done away with; all of the references to Nocturnal appear to be tied into a previous iteration of the Thieves Guild (along with the Violet Lamp as the enemy faction), as I haven't found anything about her (or them) at all.

Well, this is beyond lame its not the thieves guild without nocturnal. Worst thieves guild in any TES.

Enodoc

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Thieves Guild, including the new zone of Hew's Bane. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes:

Just realised that I haven't really answered all the questions properly yet, so here goes:

How did you initially get to Abah’s Landing?

Through the Partners in Crime quest, picked up at the Wayrest Outlaws Refuge. The Abah's Landing wayshrine is not immediately accessible, which I assume is a bug, considering one of the advertised ways of getting the quest is to port to Abah's Landing and find Quen at the wayshrine.

If you got the quest from the Collections UI, was it easy to find?

Only if you know to look for it there.

How did you find the pacing of the Thieves Guild storyline?

Since the reputation changes in 2.3.1 it seems to have better pacing. The quests also seem to be aligned with Thieves Guild ranks now, which is good. (At least up to Rank 3, haven't got past that yet.)

How much time did you spend earning Thieves Guild reputation in between questing?

Probably a good couple of hours. It's nice that there are different sources of rep available so you're not repeating the same content if you don't want to.

It would be good to see other sources of rep introduced for the Mages and Fighters Guilds too, some time down the line. Repeatable quests for these would be great.

Were the additions of hiding spots and trespassing understood while completing Thieves Guild quests? Did they make sense?

Yes, although not all of the hiding spots glow. They all need to glow so that it's clear that they are hiding spots.

Do you have any general feedback for these mechanics?

There's quite a bit of feedback on trespassing in my posts above. In summary, it's a great concept, but a few things could be improved to make it more engaging:

• NPCs issue empty threats if they see you. If you linger too long after being discovered, they should actually action these threats, and spawn a guard at the door to "forcibly remove" you (via death).
• The notification for trespassing is slow to clear and gets out-of-sync easily. A "faster" notification, like those used for quest task updates or PvP scroll capture, would be better.
• I would like to see trespassing added to some of the base-game zones too.

If you received a bounty while trespassing, did it make sense why you received it?

Yes, because I was seen. What doesn't make sense is that it will decay while you're still trespassing. It shouldn't be able to decay until you leave the restricted area, and should actually increase if you stick around for too long and are seen again.

Did you understand what to do once you entered an area you were trespassing into?

Stay out of sight, and use hiding spots if necessary. But considering the current state in which being detected means nothing more than a bounty which will decay anyway, staying hidden is not worth it.

What did you think of the new enemies while performing a heist (the clairvoyant and the lookout enemies)?

Clairvoyant enemies are a great addition, and I'd like to see the concept added to a few guards in the base game zones. I don't know what a lookout enemy is.

Did you participate in any other criminal activity? If so, what did you do, and how did you like it?

• I broke into some houses in Abah's Landing to look around and steal some stuff. Per the trespassing comment above, I would like that better if being detected had more impact.
• I also broke into some houses in the base game zones, which is apparently no longer a crime; that's a shame, as it removes one of the widespread Justice mechanics from the world and confines it only to a few buildings in a DLC-locked area.
• Pickpocketing and safeboxes are still good, and it's nice that the things found there now have some sort of purpose.

Were you able to locate the Thieves Den in Abah’s Landing?

Yep. It was a nice touch to use a redesigned Outlaws Refuge symbol for the logo.

Did you find and/or complete the Cutpurse Above achievement, which awards the Master Thief title?

No. The list should be made more obvious, and you should be given a copy to refer back to at any time. Attaching a quest to it, like for the House of Orsimer Glories, would probably make this easier.

Did you receive the edict item?

Yes.

If so, did you use it?

Not yet.

Did you think it was fun and worthwhile?

It could be very useful in certain situations...

Do you have any other general feedback?

Some can be found in my other posts in this thread:

• The Alchemist shop should have its own map icon, as it is a separate location from the Promenade.
• When a new story quest is available, Andarri should appear in any Outlaws Refuge to give you the quest, not just the Thieves Den.

Beyond that:

• Sticking in my mind right now is the contradictory nature of "Laundered Shipments" from Thieves Troves, which are not actually laundered.
• Traps, like hiding spots, seem to be indecisive over whether they glow or not. All traps should glow while stealthed.
• The stables in Abah's Landing don't have a name.

Reorx_Holybeard

A bunch of random notes and observations I've taken while playing. If you need any specific details about a bug just let me know.

• Still looting 0 value items from containers. Unsure if that is intended or not but I thought I saw a patch note saying you were fixing these.
• Most traps in Hews Bane and subsequent areas don't highlight when you are sneaking (only the detection traps seem to highlight). It is very difficult (I did it only once) to disarm the "explosive" square traps without taking damage. The "trip line" trap seems to activate after a few seconds meaning you trip a couple of meters past the trap which looks and feels strange.
• I was going to complain about the lack of v16 Potency rune stones but it seems I just had initial bad luck at looting them. It seems to be around a 10% loot chance which seems reasonable.
• I opened a dozen or so containers from WB/Delves quest rewards in Orsinium and didn't receive any motifs. These were saved on Live from before the TG on PTS. It would be good to know if this is intended or not (so I can stop filling my inventory on live with containers to open).
• There is still the bug after killing "animals" where you are in aggro mode and can't loot containers/nodes for around 5 seconds compared to the 1-2 seconds after killing other mobs.
• While I like that all crafting nodes are v15/16 materials might you consider making a small amount of v10 materials (10-20%). This is mainly due to the last crafting writ requiring both materials.
• There seems to be a lot of backpacks around Hews Bane that cannot be looted (not empty, you simply have no options to activate them).
• I've looted several dozen set items from Thieves Troves, containers and quest rewards but they were all v15, no v16 items at all. I either got very unlucky or the chance for v16 items is quite low.
• The bug where you fall very slowly is still around.
• The entrance markers for the Iron Wheel Headquarters is shown as "No Shira Prison". It would be good to have these match.
• The Roguish Escape Draughts you find in Thieves Trove always seem to be level 50 and only stack to 6. Unsure if either of these are intended or not.
• If you open your in-game map right after zoning you receive a Lua/UI error.
• I had some confusion over the steal/pickpocket quest in regards to the names given in the quest not exactly matching the "treasure" names on items. This was before the 2.3.1 update which mentions fixing this however and I haven't checked it since then.
• I still encountered the bug where a guard acosts you but no dialogue UI shows up and the guard keeps stopping and yelling at you. The one time it happened I had no bounty but a little bit of heat after using a pardon.
• This seems to happen on live as well, but when enemy Nightblade NPCs "jump" at you they usually end up behind you facing the wrong way if you are moving towards them. Very awkward to backstab someone facing the wrong way...;)
• The in-game doesn't seem to track your position correctly inside the Mages Guild in Hews Bane or in Silver-Claw's Warehouse.
• In the API you may wish to change ITEMSTYLE_UNUSED9 (47) to ITEMSTYLE_OUTLAW.
• In Bahraha's Gloom delve there are a lot of rugs standing a good distance along the wall which makes it very easy to obscure your view if the camera goes behind them.
• I never came across any style materials for the new styles. Are they in the game and how do you get them?
• I was detected when using a Hiding Spot one time when I entered the spot just before the NPC with a glowing ring (or whatever you call them) came upon me. I was definitely outside of the NPC's detection circle but was still spotted.
• The purple quality Satchel of Laundered Goods you get from heists only rewards me with two white goods (x5) each. This is technically the same as a white quality satchel and I was expecting green/blue/purple goods inside the purple one. The Small Satchel only has 3 goods inside it which should be increased to 5-6. 3 white goods is only 120 gold which seems low for a "moderate" reward.
• In the Idle Hands quest you sometimes get double credit for a pickpocket (you PP one item but the quest gives you credit for two). The quest also doesn't get to the final stage of "Returning to Kiera?". It goes from Stormhaven-Rivenspire-Alikr and then back to Stormhaven once you finish the Alikr portion. Other quests like Under Our Thumb and Crime Spree don't seem to have this issue.
• Any chance more Skyshards or skill points could be added to the Thieves Guild? There are only 3-4 skill points but 14 skill points required in the new skill line. I'm running dangerously short of extra skill points even though I have all them except the ones from Alliance ranks.

Having a great time in the DLC so far and trying not to do too much so I can have more fun when it gets released on Live!

mainarhont

mainarhont wrote: »

No maxillo-facial animation NPC in DLC 'Thieves Guild" While found in three: Quen, Walks-Softly & Zeira. No icons appear achievements and pet...

1. maxillo-facial animation - OK.
2. icons appear achievements - missing in the six achievements DLC Thieves Guild (screenshots).
3. icon a pet - OK

Anska

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Has anyone found a statue to Nocturnal?

No, haven't found one. I'm assuming that was done away with; all of the references to Nocturnal appear to be tied into a previous iteration of the Thieves Guild (along with the Violet Lamp as the enemy faction), as I haven't found anything about her (or them) at all.

Well, this is beyond lame its not the thieves guild without nocturnal. Worst thieves guild in any TES.

I have found some minor references to her so far:

Some of the guild members seem to think that the large statue in the center of the Den depicts Nocturnal. You can find notes entitled "The Lady in the Cistern: [Name]'s Theory" and Andarri and Thrag are pretty sure it's supposed to be Nocturnal. While I am not quite as sure as they are, it at least shows that the guild members are still (or already as we are way back in the past compared to all the other iterations) feel connected to good ol' Lady Luck.

On a side note: While I haven't met Thrag or Andarri yet, Andarri talks about having claws, so she must be an Argonian or a Khajiit. Andarri sounds more like a khajiiti name to me - if it is, it's odd that she talks about herself in first person in her note and the Loremaster's Archive article.

Enodoc

Anska wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Has anyone found a statue to Nocturnal?

No, haven't found one. I'm assuming that was done away with; all of the references to Nocturnal appear to be tied into a previous iteration of the Thieves Guild (along with the Violet Lamp as the enemy faction), as I haven't found anything about her (or them) at all.

Well, this is beyond lame its not the thieves guild without nocturnal. Worst thieves guild in any TES.

I have found some minor references to her so far:

Some of the guild members seem to think that the large statue in the center of the Den depicts Nocturnal. You can find notes entitled "The Lady in the Cistern: [Name]'s Theory" and Andarri and Thrag are pretty sure it's supposed to be Nocturnal. While I am not quite as sure as they are, it at least shows that the guild members are still (or already as we are way back in the past compared to all the other iterations) feel connected to good ol' Lady Luck.

On a side note: While I haven't met Thrag or Andarri yet, Andarri talks about having claws, so she must be an Argonian or a Khajiit. Andarri sounds more like a khajiiti name to me - if it is, it's odd that she talks about herself in first person in her note and the Loremaster's Archive article.

Yeah that's reasonable. I expect the Lady in the Cistern is the replacement for the Nocturnal statue in the video.

It's therefore reasonable for them to keep some passing references to it just to keep the connection there.

Thrag and Andarri are the two who give you the initial direction to talk to Zeira in each of the story quests.

deleted008293

First impressions after around 15h. To be edited later.

--- Biggest downside with new DLC is the quest system and atmosphere. Once you arrive in the Abah's Landing you feel like a stranger. Nobody want to talk to you. Nobody want your help. People are static. The world feel soo artificial. I want to see more NPCs that gives you small quests like fetch that do that. Simple. I want to see people actually living in that city. I want to see people hauling crates, walking around, talking, etc... Also there are way too few NPCs for a town so big. There were also some interesting characters but I won't talk about.
- Quests and reputation. I think we need a meter of some sort to know how well or bad we stand with this guild in particular. The idea is good. The implementation is bad. You can get reputation from 2-3 repetitive quest givers. Add some random guys that give us quests thus rising reputation in that town. Do bad things and reputation will fall apart. Also quests doesn't really flow. You have to search for the quest giver and you have to put questions why there are no quest givers at all?
- There are lots of crates and barrels everywhere but most of them cannot be looted. Lots of bookshelves can't be read either in many buildings around the city.

+ Design. Short? Awesome!
- The DLC is a bit too small for my taste but at least its awesome.
+ On the other hand the city its on another scale.
+ The citadel was also something worth visiting and same goes for the 2 delves. Heists are awesome too... Few other gameplay features are also worth mentioned.
+ Rooftops were so challenging. I hope we get even more cities like this one and not only cities but whole zones. Keep them coming.
+ Lots of vista points. Speaking about... Why can't we go up the walls just like in Windhelm?
+ I'm wondering already whats behind that gate to the north? Will we see Abah's Landing from the other side of the gulf?
+ New gameplay elements

--- Graphics and Performance? Hmm the current PTS version ran far worse than live but perhaps my biggest disappoint was that some texture bugs are still there and are actually even worse than before. Random loading screens didn't went away either. After soo many months of waiting for a fix... I have to say this was a let down for me. Especially since 64 bit client didn't helped much.

How did you initially get to Abah’s Landing?
- By following the questline
If you got the quest from the Collections UI, was it easy to find?
- No comment
How did you find the pacing of the Thieves Guild storyline?
- See above
How much time did you spend earning Thieves Guild reputation in between questing?
- See above
Were the additions of hiding spots and trespassing understood while completing Thieves Guild quests? Did they make sense?
- Yes. Interesting concept. Loved it.
Do you have any general feedback for these mechanics?
- No
If you received a bounty while trespassing, did it make sense why you received it?
- Yes
Did you understand what to do once you entered an area you were trespassing into?
- Yes
What did you think of the new enemies while performing a heist (the clairvoyant and the lookout enemies)?
- They don't walk that much. Kidding.
Did you participate in any other criminal activity? If so, what did you do, and how did you like it?
- As usual... hit and run.
Were you able to locate the Thieves Den in Abah’s Landing?
- Challenge accepted
Did you find and/or complete the Cutpurse Above achievement, which awards the Master Thief title?
- SoonTM
Did you receive the edict item? If so, did you use it?
- Yes. Didn't figured it out how to use it yet.
Did you think it was fun and worthwhile?
- Which part?
Do you have any other general feedback?
- See above

Toorlokviing

idk if anyone has encountered this but why are leg items worth 0 gold. can zos confirm this is indeed intended? or that its a glitch and needs to be fixed. see image attached

notgramma

my thoughts as a (relatively) newbie:
created my character and realized I had created a dragonknight when i wanted a templar so created a new character - both times i am bombarded by emails with items - i've remained as the templar and cannot for the life of me get these emails to stop coming - i increased my bag space to the limit - initially i walked over and sold my items to someone nearby and all those items came back to me in the mail with gold like i had just bought them. Next i marked them as junk and destroyed all the junk. they came back to me in the mail with more gold. Then i right-clicked and out right destroyed them and they came back to me in the mail with more gold. i tried logging in and out and for today my items keep coming back to me, but the items from last weekend have stopped returning. I cannot visit Hews Bane - i followed the prophet but he is just trying to start me on those quests so i am ignoring him. I was unable to get any quest from the collections tab in the crown store - it says i purchased the thieves guild but i'm not sure what i am supposed to do from there to get the thieves guild quest. But, I read on here about the outlaw refuge and i went to the one in Vulkhel Guard and just found Quen so I am good to go...except my inbox is full and keeps filling up with the same items over and over...

Anska

Toorlokviing wrote: »

idk if anyone has encountered this but why are leg items worth 0 gold. can zos confirm this is indeed intended? or that its a glitch and needs to be fixed. see image attached

You found one of the special items Kari is looking for. They can neither be sold nor laundered but you can decorate your Den with them and get an Achievement when you found all. Though I agree the missing gold-value is odd for an object which should be extremly valuable.

deleted008293

Speaking about achievements for Kari lists... someone care to elaborate a bit on the idea?
I've found achievements for the whole EP AD and DC but I couldn't find individual achievements per zones: Stonefalls, Deshaan, Shadowfeen, Eastmarch, Rift, etc... I am alone? Where are those achievements? Missing?

Ra'Shtar

nordmarian wrote: »

Speaking about achievements for Kari lists... someone care to elaborate a bit on the idea?
I've found achievements for the whole EP AD and DC but I couldn't find individual achievements per zones: Stonefalls, Deshaan, Shadowfeen, Eastmarch, Rift, etc... I am alone? Where are those achievements? Missing?

There is only 1 item per zone so i don't think there should be an achiev for finding 1.

deleted008293

I through there were 4 per zone.

Ra'Shtar

nordmarian wrote: »

I through there were 4 per zone.

No its 5 per alliance

agro2014

Pickpocket daily quest bugged, got one yesterday, successfully pickpocketed 10 items in Stormhaven, then 10 items in Rivenspire, then 10 items in Alik`r Desert and quest resets to stage "pickpocket *** items in Stormhaven".

Anska

During the weekend I had some more time to spend on the PTS, so I'll add to the comment I made last week with my new experiences. As someone else stated above: Abah's Landing isn't very big. I don't think that this is much of a problem, since the "Thieves Guild DLC" is afterall a guild expansion, not a zone expansion like Wrothgar. From a guild expansion I would expect a well rounded skill line like those of the other guilds and an implementation of the new guild-related content into the existing world. Unfortunately these aspects don't work too well in my opinion. The new mechanics and even Spencer Rye's daily quest seem to be exclusively focused on Hew's Bane, while the new skill line feels as if you tried to come up with thief themed skills which aren't already covered by the Legerdemain Skill Line.

Spencer Rye's Dailies
I do think it's a good idea to have daily quests which point players towards worldbosses and delves, however I don't think pointing all players from level 4 to Vet 16 to 6 locations will work out so well. The places will simply be overrun. Couldn't you tie Spencer's quest to character-level too and send players to worldbosses appropriate to their level? Apart from taking pressure from the Hew's Bane locations this would have the positive effect of repopulating some of the other zones again which currently feel a little desolated. On live server I am currently questing with a character in golden Veteran content and most of the worldbosses are alive when I come across them and I usually have to kill them on my own too. Not that this is a huge problem most of the time - it just feels a little lonely.

The Tip Board
As this thread points out, repeatable quests tend to become boring when you grind them, but I guess they will even become a bit repetitive if you do them alongside leveling your character. A greater variety of quests and a modification to the randomizer would be nice. Three of the existing quests tab on resources that players share with each other: You have to compete with others in regards to the safeboxes and if you take in account players who reset the inventory of their preferred pickpocketing target by killing it this too will affect others. Because of this adding some some non competitive quests to the pool might be good. For example quests related to breaking and entering for which you have to steal a specific (quest)item from someones home or plant false evidence. Fetch quests for the areas delves and the group delve would be another idea. This way you had a bigger quest pool with a greater variety of activities, which might make the reputation quests feel less repetitive.

Additionally I don't think the quests randomizer is working too well. On Saturday I got "Under our thumb" almost exclusively, while on Sunday I got nothing but "Crime Spree" from the board. It would be swell if you could somehow modify the randomizer to make it less likely to get the same quest several times in a row.

Trespassing
Aside from what I wrote in my previous post, I really like the new trespassing areas. They finally make breaking in feel dangerous, you get a bounty for being discovered and in guarded areas you will even be chased. I enjoy this game-play a lot - it's just a shame, that it seems to be exclusively available in Hew's Bane. I can understand that adding new houses as well as guard patrols to existing areas is a lot of work, but couldn't you please implement the new mechanics in some of the existing houses? Almost every area in the game has one spacious house which is accessible for one quest only (e.g. Lerineaux Manor in Daggerfall and Mayor's House in Crosswytch) and Reaper's March even has a complete city district which is otherwise closed off (the Tower District in Arenthia). Wouldn't it be possible to modify these to become trespassing areas after their respective quests are completed? I had great fun sneaking around Arenthia as it is but with the new mechanics added it should be quite awesome.

Heists
I could try some of the heists this weekend too and enjoyed them. I especially like that you actually added secret rooms and passages which aren't on the map. While I am not sure if this is intended or simply not implemented yet, I think it's a total shame so many of the treasure items are decorative only. When I see those huge, inviting piles of coins, all the Welkynd Stones and precious clutter which just lies there, waiting to be picked up ... I want to forget about the timer and load my pockets full with riches. Not being able to actually do so is just so very disappointing.

The traps in the heists reset - their graphics unfortunately don't. I'll post this in the Bug Report Thread too.

If the Clairvoyants are the lamp-enemies, I assume the Lookouts are the ones who place stealth-traps. I like both of them, however the Lookouts occasionally are a bit too vigilant and replace their traps almost the second the previous one despawns.

The Skill Line
The skill line is my biggest complaint so far. Like I wrote above, it feels like you had to come up with skills that aren't already covered by the Legerdemain Skill Line. I admit this is rather difficult, because the Legerdemain Line in itself is a rather good thief skill line already. Instead of focusing on skills which deal with bounty or getting away from the guard - which the legerdemain line already covers nicely - it would be nice if the Thieves Guild Skill Line would focus on "getting around unseen" and uncovering hidden secrets (and treasures) instead. After all that's what the heists and the guild's main story are about. It would also make the Thieves Guild Skills feel more universally useful in my eyes.

As a closing word and to make sure you don't get me wrong: I don't think it's a bad expansion. In fact I think it's pretty awesome, it just needs some more love in certain areas.

PS: Please send my regards to your art-team, writers and to whomever thought of the "Loose Stone" chest-type. I was so happy when I found one.

Mysticman

The music NEVER ends outside, in the bank, in the Thieves Den, everywhere the same music over and over and over again and again extremely annoying, please tell me this is a bug and not intended.

deleted008293

I think it doesnt use more than one soundtrack atm :P

Enodoc

I used the Wayshrine to port into Abah's Landing, in order to avoid starting the TG questline with a character who does not want to be a thief, and still got lumbered with the Thieves Guild Skill Line on entering the city. There may be characters who want to explore Abah's Landing without ever joining the Guild, and they are forced into having a skill line that they cannot advance and would never use.

The skill line should not be given directly on arrival to Abah's Landing -- it should be given as a reward for joining the Guild, which occurs at the end of the Partners in Crime quest. Please attach the skill line to completion of Partners in Crime instead of arrival to Abah's Landing.

Taleof2Cities

Speaking of skill lines ... and I've mentioned it a couple of times in other threads already:

For testing purposes, it would be great to have all weapon/armor traits researched 9/9 ... so that we can craft our own items to supplement the testing of the new sets.

In addition, the provisioning skill line is not maxed out like enchanting and alchemy. Don't know why this skill was left out ... but with the surplus of PTS skill points it would be nice to make our own food/drink. (I realize there are crown store generic food and drink available.)

Other than that, enjoying the testing so far ...

Khamira

Dis One thinks you need to adjust Camel's hitbox a little bit...

BlackEar

Replying to the Templar thread would be greatly appreciated. This is feedback to all the Zenimax regarding the Thieves guild and all future updates - do not ignore or keep silent when you yourself are asking for feedback.

ArrowTedin_ESO

To improve stealthy gameplay, I have a few suggestions.


-Remove the sound effect that plays upon entering stealth as a vampire. It is unnecessary, as the default sound plays at the same time.

-The recent update has slowed the player's movement mid-air after jumping from stationary position. A fix for this will make jumping over obstacles easier.

-The player is DETECTED upon opening a Thieves Trove regardless of NPC presence or line of sight. Some trove locations give the player an unavoidable bounty. Interacting with the troves should not change stealth status inherently. An issue like this can leave the player un-trusting of the stealth mechanics.

-Create a new stealth animation that plays if the player reaches normal movement speed through the use of sneak movement enhancers, such as the vampire passive ability "DARK STALKER". As of now, a slower version of the sprint animation plays when such a speed is achieved, making for an awkward sneaking experience. Footsteps are amplified as well. I have created a video showing the issue here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCrDAilMHAg

Overall, this game needs a lot of work before I can be comfortable playing through an entire DLC based around stealth, since the stealth mechanics function only a majority of the time. I feel as if I have to battle the game's technical side to succeed at getting them to work. A few well-placed tweaks and fixes will allow us to trust that the game will work as intended, without making us feel "cheated" when something goes wrong.

ArrowTedin_ESO

I was hoping that would get at least one response... :c