My take on maelstrom arena so far

Cazzy

Played it for the first time a few days ago and breezed through until I got to the Frozen *something* stage. I guess I have to be quick to take the boss down before the trolls destroy the platforms? I had nowhere safe to park my little scared bum.

LadyNalcarya

Textual_Sphinx wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Aoes occasionaly hitting me when I'm nowhere near red circles. Especially on stages 7 and 8, but for me it can happen on all stages. And since on round 7 there's only 2 poison removal thingies, there's some serious rng. Yeah, I have 100-200 ping (which is stange because I dont have any issues in other games), but if it's so ping dependent, then what about those who have worse latency issues than me?
Also, boss on round 6 likes to use lightning aoe at the pillar when you have tor run to it. Usually its possible to scare off the spiders and avoid the aoe, but not always, especially with a problem I mentioned above.
Also, once I had an archer on stage 7 that spawned and shot me at the very second he appeared, even though that attack usually has a long animation. Can be also related to latency.

That sounds frustrating, but I would argue that your problem is a latency issue rather than a mechanics issue. Also, the lightning aoe and archer damage can be avoided or mitigated.

Yeah, but when the game has such latency issues (as I said, I dont have anything like this in other games), is it wise to introduce oneshotting mechanics that are ping-dependent? I dont have anything against special mechanics, but those that do not require good ping all the time, like planar inhibitor's or lord warden's are much better imo.
And yeah, that was the long-charging shot, I forgot the name. The one with red glow animation. Usually its not a problem to interrupt, but once it was shot immediately which was very frustrating.

Contraptions

They should just tone down the health and damage numbers overall. Like many others have said, vMA isn't challenging. It's cheap.

Some people claim that vMA is only about "skill" and no luck is involved. Utter rubbish. Imagine how much simpler round 5 would be if every time a troll spawned it moved towards the platform you were on instead of a random platform halfway across the arena. Imagine how simple round 7 would be if every flower happens to spawn in a spot far away from you or when the Argonian Tenders during the boss round come they don't stand next to any flowers when the boss starts screaming. Imagine how simple round 9 would be if the Nightblades that spawn don't use their Soul Tether immediately when in range. I could go on.

The fact that I have 250+ ping doesn't really help either.

Textual_Sphinx

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Yeah, but when the game has such latency issues (as I said, I dont have anything like this in other games), is it wise to introduce oneshotting mechanics that are ping-dependent? I dont have anything against special mechanics, but those that do not require good ping all the time, like planar inhibitor's or lord warden's are much better imo.
And yeah, that was the long-charging shot, I forgot the name. The one with red glow animation. Usually its not a problem to interrupt, but once it was shot immediately which was very frustrating.

I think the difference with Planar Inhibitor and Lord Warden is that the responsibility for the mechanics is shared between a number of players. Additionally, if one player fails at the game mechanics due to an issue with latency then the others can adapt. This isn't possible in vMSA since the responsibility for effectively tackling the game mechanics, and any consequences of high latency, is entirely on one player. I'm not sure what mechanics you could introduce instead that don't rely on quick reactions and quick thinking to some degree, and at the same time still maintain a very high degree of difficulty.

LadyNalcarya

Textual_Sphinx wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Yeah, but when the game has such latency issues (as I said, I dont have anything like this in other games), is it wise to introduce oneshotting mechanics that are ping-dependent? I dont have anything against special mechanics, but those that do not require good ping all the time, like planar inhibitor's or lord warden's are much better imo.
And yeah, that was the long-charging shot, I forgot the name. The one with red glow animation. Usually its not a problem to interrupt, but once it was shot immediately which was very frustrating.

I think the difference with Planar Inhibitor and Lord Warden is that the responsibility for the mechanics is shared between a number of players. Additionally, if one player fails at the game mechanics due to an issue with latency then the others can adapt. This isn't possible in vMSA since the responsibility for effectively tackling the game mechanics, and any consequences of high latency, is entirely on one player. I'm not sure what mechanics you could introduce instead that don't rely on quick reactions and quick thinking to some degree, and at the same time still maintain a very high degree of difficulty.

Well, vICP/WGT works just fine for me (except for the grenades on flesh sculptor, but we usually burn it anyway), as well as old trials and arena. This problem is exclusive to MA... And Cyrodiil.

umagon

I tried the arena for the fist time last night and I didn't find the difficult too bad. I made it to the frozen lake before my first death. I didn't know the boss would start destroying the ice floats if I took too long. The spider boss is where I stopped I couldn't figure out how to dps her down, I didn't know she had a rage mechanic got her to about 50% then got nuked. It was late so just stopped there for the he night. The biggest issue I had was the awards they are just terrible, I got two medium set pieces for a pet sorc on my tankblade. Total waste of an hour and about 20 tri potions.

Khaos_Bane

I just wish Normal VM was more difficult or wish there was an intermediate difficulty. I truly don't have the patience for VMSA and try to learn mechanics and patterns over and over and over again for the RNG award.

I just wish their was an intermediate difficulty.

Khaos_Bane

umagon wrote: »

I tried the arena for the fist time last night and I didn't find the difficult too bad. I made it to the frozen lake before my first death. I didn't know the boss would start destroying the ice floats if I took too long. The spider boss is where I stopped I couldn't figure out how to dps her down, I didn't know she had a rage mechanic got her to about 50% then got nuked. It was late so just stopped there for the he night. The biggest issue I had was the awards they are just terrible, I got two medium set pieces for a pet sorc on my tankblade. Total waste of an hour and about 20 tri potions.

Well you made it to the first part that has any difficulty at all. So you really have no idea about the difficulty.

pronkg

Contraptions wrote: »

They should just tone down the health and damage numbers overall. Like many others have said, vMA isn't challenging. It's cheap.

Some people claim that vMA is only about "skill" and no luck is involved. Utter rubbish. Imagine how much simpler round 5 would be if every time a troll spawned it moved towards the platform you were on instead of a random platform halfway across the arena. Imagine how simple round 7 would be if every flower happens to spawn in a spot far away from you or when the Argonian Tenders during the boss round come they don't stand next to any flowers when the boss starts screaming. Imagine how simple round 9 would be if the Nightblades that spawn don't use their Soul Tether immediately when in range. I could go on.

The fact that I have 250+ ping doesn't really help either.

There's a workaround for everything you've mentioned. So at what point does it become luck? People are experiencing bad luck, you do not have to be lucky to finish this.

If you know the arena well there's absolutely no problem with anything.


Stage 5, you are supposed to run/jump around to stay alive why does it matter which way they run?

Stage 7, the plants do not explode when the shields are up and you're inside.

Stage 9, that's why you knock them nightblades down or immobilize then asap.


Some very rare circumstances might kill you but these might happen like once in a 30 runs or not at all.

I only die if I make a mistake.

I can assure you there are enough players around that can prolly do 10 or more deathless runs in a row of they really want to. Most people go for high score runs and play risky, that's why they die from "RNG", they wanna save time

pronkg

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

I tried the arena for the fist time last night and I didn't find the difficult too bad. I made it to the frozen lake before my first death. I didn't know the boss would start destroying the ice floats if I took too long. The spider boss is where I stopped I couldn't figure out how to dps her down, I didn't know she had a rage mechanic got her to about 50% then got nuked. It was late so just stopped there for the he night. The biggest issue I had was the awards they are just terrible, I got two medium set pieces for a pet sorc on my tankblade. Total waste of an hour and about 20 tri potions.

Well you made it to the first part that has any difficulty at all. So you really have no idea about the difficulty.

Stage 5 is one of the hardest parts lol if he can make that he can finish the entire thing np.

Cazzy

Do I just need to defeat the boss quickly on Stage 5?

Khaos_Bane

Cazzy wrote: »

Do I just need to defeat the boss quickly on Stage 5?

Yep, straight up DPS check. If you don't have the DPS you will never get past this stage.

pronkg

Cazzy wrote: »

Do I just need to defeat the boss quickly on Stage 5?

No

He spawns mobs and breaks ice at a certain % of health. So basically

Dps boss, kill adds, dps boss, ice block breaks, move to another, kill the add that spawns from the block of ice.

Repeat this again, after the second block breaks it is kind of a dps race. It's the same rotation, but he will break the last block of you take to long.

Try to have the block with the attack and defense sigil as last so you can use them if needed.

Ofcourse kill Al trolls that spawn meanwhile

Magdalina

Cazzy wrote: »

Do I just need to defeat the boss quickly on Stage 5?

Actually you may want to defeat her slowly:P She breaks platforms at health %, 75-50(-25%? Pretty sure she bugged out on me the one time I got past her so far so my numbers may be off) so you might want to dps her slowly.
The trolls just go straight to breaking platforms but they can be interrupted and/or killed quickly.

Conerning the luck/bad RNG discussion in here, I have amazing amount of lag/bugs in there. A lot of it might be due to latency, I normally play with 200-300 ping but I have MUCH less issues in group dungeons or even Trials(about the same in Cyro). And I don't just mean group members help pick up, sure they do but I generally don't lag/bug quite as badly. I can't count the amount of times I die to red circles I'm very visibly NOT in and direct single target attacks I was DODGING. Also unworking CC immunity. It's really frustrating when I decide to waste my precious little stamina on a dodgeroll exclusively to avoid some damage and die in the middle of the dodgeroll to the very attack I was dodging.

Joy_Division

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Do I just need to defeat the boss quickly on Stage 5?

Yep, straight up DPS check. If you don't have the DPS you will never get past this stage.

I wonder how many problems are caused by people getting advice that is 100% wrong.

This is one of the few fights where too much DPS actually makes the fight more difficult.

Murmeltier

JacobyRust wrote: »

Currently bashing my head against level 5. Thus far it's just been artificial difficulty (mobs one shot, or hit incredibly hard) and make whatever you're standing in or near cause insane amounts of damage. It's very poor design for difficulty. Blah, blah, blah learn mechanics, change your build, L2P, yeah I'm a demon souls, dark souls 1 and 2, and bloodborne veteran. I know bad mechanics and artificial difficulty pretty well and I know great design and actual real AI programmed difficulty. This is not it.

Cmon Girls and Boys, that hits the Point. vMA has a poor Design for Difficulty, nothing more to say. Feel free to play and enjoy it.

pronkg

Murmeltier wrote: »

JacobyRust wrote: »

Currently bashing my head against level 5. Thus far it's just been artificial difficulty (mobs one shot, or hit incredibly hard) and make whatever you're standing in or near cause insane amounts of damage. It's very poor design for difficulty. Blah, blah, blah learn mechanics, change your build, L2P, yeah I'm a demon souls, dark souls 1 and 2, and bloodborne veteran. I know bad mechanics and artificial difficulty pretty well and I know great design and actual real AI programmed difficulty. This is not it.

Cmon Girls and Boys, that hits the Point. vMA has a poor Design for Difficulty, nothing more to say. Feel free to play and enjoy it.

mmos are always poorly designed cause people want to be able to play anyway they want. Devs don't have the time for that so they just make loads of mediocre content.

Murmeltier

Axorn wrote: »

JacobyRust wrote: »

Currently bashing my head against level 5. Thus far it's just been artificial difficulty (mobs one shot, or hit incredibly hard) and make whatever you're standing in or near cause insane amounts of damage. It's very poor design for difficulty. Blah, blah, blah learn mechanics, change your build, L2P, yeah I'm a demon souls, dark souls 1 and 2, and bloodborne veteran. I know bad mechanics and artificial difficulty pretty well and I know great design and actual real AI programmed difficulty. This is not it.

You are so right man, VMSA is not about difficulty or technique mobs just hit too hard you have to memorize everything and repeat same moves until your body make those moves auto its just mindless for my taste.

Here we go again, absolutley right. I think the same, i waited Months for that and it feels mindless. But again, feel free to enjoy it People, if this is your Thing.

Seido_Tensei_

I am really enjoying the arena as it is. I think those that are asking for damage nerfs have not put in sufficient time to learn the stages or boss fights. I have a magic Templar with ~18k health and I have not been one shot by anything in the arena that wasn't avoidable. I think one shot kills are valid if they can be avoided.

It adds an element of complexity to the boss fight that would not exist if you did not have to account for the "one shot" mechanics. You can say that is artificial, but stage 9 was by far the hardest stage for me until I figured out the sequence to the "one shot" mechanics, now it is my favorite stage.

Shadesofkin

As someone who plays a Dragonknight (and only Dragonknights) I can now make it to stage 8 or 9 consistently with my runs on a very low number of deaths. This content just requires practice and *that* is what makes it fun. Fire and forget content abounds throughout the game, I like having something I work on and plan against.

Decayed_Inside

I can get to the bossfight on the rink of frozen BS. I'll try the strat someone here posted of not dpsing her until i clear the ads thanks maybe it will get me past her

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Umbranox wrote: »

I'm not fond of one-shot mechanics that can only be avoided through RNG. That title that comes from Vet MA is not a badge of honor; it's a badge of luck.

I will concede that a no-death run takes a bit of luck, but saying that it takes luck to clear the content is simply false. There are only a handful of scenarios that result in RNG deaths. Don't get me wrong, there are some fixes I would make if I could, but I have no sympathy for people trying to diminish an achievement that some of us worked MANY hours to obtain. My biggest issue in this place is that something about it causes my ping to go crazy at times. Lag deaths are the worst.

The only pure RNG deaths I have seen are stage 6 where you get crazy lightening AoE on the glowing pillar when the spiders come or stage 7 when you get poison under the shield. Someone said earlier that it doesnt happen, but it absolutely does. Its not total RNG though because you have a choice with what add to kill. I hear people complain about the stranglers in 3, but if you spawn kill them, its not an issue (mechanics, not RNG). Stage 9 can get overwhelming, especially the last boss, but that's usually not RNG. Its a result of spending too much time on defense and not killing things fast enough or in the correct priority. For example, you need to interrupt the bosses channel before dealing with the crem guard or you are going to have a bad day.

Assuming your ping is stable, all other one shots can be avoided. Yes, it favors ranged builds, and no, you cant "play the way you want" and expect to be successful in this place. You need to build for it and gear for it. I would have been pretty disappointed if I cleared this place on the first try. The lag needs addressed (which might require adjusting some mechanics), and the loot system is pretty terrible, but this content is manageable with the right build, gear, and practice.

If it were up to me, these are the changes I would make:

First, it needs save points. That would solve so much of the complaints we see on the forums. My advice when trying to clear is not spend more than 2-3 hours at a time. It doesn't do any good to bang your head against a wall when you are already fatigued. Second, they need to address the lag. I really wish I could just download this arena to my PC so I could run it on my PC, which I know is stable. I don't know what causes it, but the only places I consistently have ping issues are pop-capped PvP campaigns (understandable), and this solo instance (I don't get it). Third, they need to overhaul the loot system. This would be a great place for a token system and most of the random gear should be BoE. I got a well-fitted random armor set-piece for my final chest reward over the weekend. I was not amused.

Fourth (it gets its own paragraph), they need a 2-man version of this place immediately. All you would have to do is adjust the hit points on a few of the bosses/mini-bosses. This would make this great piece of content approachable for the "other 90%" that likely wont clear this on their own. It would also greatly increase the replay value because most of us do not play an MMO to run Solo.

Erock25

I've put in a bit of time in vma so far. The only thing I think is unfair is that it seems magicka players have an easier time at it.

SirDopey

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

I can get to the bossfight on the rink of frozen BS. I'll try the strat someone here posted of not dpsing her until i clear the ads thanks maybe it will get me past her

Good Luck. Until you get the hang of it I also strongly recommend leaving the defense and power sigils until the last ice berg, once he smashes the second one run over, pick them up and just focus on the boss and troll, the adds will kill themselves off your defense. This means you need to make sure he's on one of the other ice bergs and not the one with the defense and power sigils when he smashes first and second.

SirDopey

Joy_Division wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Do I just need to defeat the boss quickly on Stage 5?

Yep, straight up DPS check. If you don't have the DPS you will never get past this stage.

I wonder how many problems are caused by people getting advice that is 100% wrong.

This is one of the few fights where too much DPS actually makes the fight more difficult.

100% certain Khaos was trolling

Rayste

CrowsDescend wrote: »

I kinda like vMSA but I have to admit, my first clear took me over 500-700 deaths, and you can say that many of them were caused by not doing the mechanics right, but actually, a lot of them were caused by really cheesy combos. For example, a Crem Guard spitting fire all over me while clawing me at the same time for 7k+ melee hits and 30k+ fire DoTs as I'm healing through it, while the boss is casting at me, forced me to totally rely on my ultimate (nova.)

Without Nova, I couldn't get passed that stage and it was holding me back for hours upon hours until I figured it out and timed my Ultimate correctly, which sound reasonable right? but the physical damage in there is a bit too extreme for the majority of us who aren't shield-stacking Sorc's.

This is the exact point that frustrated me the most. I ran through as a sorc but I was not using overload. Shield stacking definitely helped but I found I was having to survive multiple bursts from the crem because of lack of dps. Anyways, cleared it 3 times and got the 2handed axe for my stam dk. I haven't been back since. The content is frustrating. I am glad some people are having fun with it, but for me it feels like a chore.

Other than round 5 of stage 9 though, the rest should be fairly doable once mechanics are learned.

Stage 5 can be difficult, I will agree.

And I can see stage 2 being bad for some melee specs.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

For the round 5 boss fight, the health timer is as follows. The boss will break islands at 75%, 45% and 5%. The boss will spawn 2 adds at 90%, 60% and 30%. The trolls are on a clock timer, not a health timer. Until you get the hang of the fight, it is strongly advisable to hold DPS before all of these thresholds. This is the only Boss fight were I do not attempt to simply burn the boss.

If he is about to spawn adds (90,60,30%), the safe way is to hold DPS (say at 92%) and wait for a troll to spawn. Take out the troll, then immediately burn boss until adds spawn. Then take out adds (ranged first) then go back to DPS boss until next threshold (which will be an island break). Trolls are always first priority, but this method helps ensure that you dont have trolls and adds at same time. This is also a great spot for something like Rune Cage or Prolonged Suffering to immediately lock down an add.

If boss is about to break an island (75,45,5%), again the safe thing to do is hold DPS. Let's say you are holding DPS at 76%. First, make sure all the adds are clear by this point (they should be if you followed the first part). Then wait for a troll. Once the troll spawns, ignore troll and burn boss past the threshold. The boss will then smash the island AND stun the troll. Take out the troll, then take out the neried that spawns from the broken island (I use ultimate here), then continue with boss to the next threshold (which will be adds). Make sure the neried goes down fast. On my sorc, I overload it. On my NB, i meteor it. They are squishy, but hit really hard.

You can play it safe like this through the whole fight. It takes a while, but with practice this becomes one of the simpler fights in this game.

Personally, I follow this strat until he breaks the second Island, then I do a 44-0% burn on the boss. It works, but it is riskier. People that are going for speed runs ignore the adds (not the trolls) until the boss breaks the island. Then they take out adds, troll, and neried at that time. When the boss is smashing the island, he takes 50% less damage and stuns everything, so its a great time to DPS anything else that is still alive.

Edit: One last thing. It might be common sense, bad make sure you tab target the trolls. This fight can get messy, and you need to make sure you are taking out things in the right priority. I find that if the troll is not tab targeted, my DPS will go almost anywhere else despite what my cursor is on.

Attackopsn

The only thing in this whole arena that will kill you in a single shot is taking aim, and it is interruptable, rollable, and has a 20 second cast time. The only way you get one shotted in this arena other than that (post round 7 fixes) is on round 6 because you failed to complete the mechanics or you got behind on adds and were killed by them instantly. It's definitely natural to get frustrated running the arena, but making a whole post with exagerrated accusations that this arena is full of "one shot mechanics" is ridiculous.


--actually if you have less than 21k hp you might get one shotted by the ground waves on round 4 of the 5th arena as well, but having over 21k hp isnt a difficult thing to obtain and this mechanic can be reduced by mitigation abilities or avoided completely by walking out of it...

Kammakazi

CrowsDescend wrote: »

And for Stage 5, I get through it by always circling around the main boss to avoid most of his melee attacks. With the adds, I try to run as far away (but not too much in the water) as I can so they come closer and closer to the platform with the boss, while I circle the boss and nuke the adds. Proxy det helps a lot on them too.

Fail the boss is a female...

NewBlacksmurf

Cazzy wrote: »

Do I just need to defeat the boss quickly on Stage 5?

This may help- http://xboxclips.com/NewBlacksmurf/9b960504-d84d-478e-a60b-28d2d561497d