Put a minimum range on Ambus/Lotus Fan in the next incremental patch

MountainHound

It needs to be 5-22 meters. Someone right on top of you should NOT be able to keep spamming it. This should be the case with all gap closers... once they are on you, you don't need to use it again use your close melee.

I still stand by my idea of making each ability you use costs go up by 50% whenever you just spam it like the dodge / bolt mechanism.

This would slow wrecking blow spammers as well.

Talcyndl

KenaPKK wrote: »

I can Spampede you or Spamvasion just as easily as I can Spambush you.

No you can't. All other "gap" closers, other than ambush, require that there be a gap to close. So, after using them, you have to move (or your target has to move) to reestablish that minimum distance. So, you can't just keep hitting the same button over and over again.

Aquanova

Takllin wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

Why does anyone still play this game?.....huh?

You tell me!

Takllin

Aquanova wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

Why does anyone still play this game?.....huh?

You tell me!

Rhetorical question is it not? People like the game and the friends that they play with.

Why is it you think that people who ask for balance changes shouldn't be playing the game?

Talcyndl

Takllin wrote: »

Why is it you think that people who ask for balance changes shouldn't be playing the game?

Because he likes spamming ambush?

ksimpscnub18_ESO

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

I am sorry but if you think this is a *** nerf thread then you are just ignorant. This is logistical and abilities of the same type "gap closers" in this instance, should all be equal on their functionality.

Aquanova

Takllin wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

Why does anyone still play this game?.....huh?

You tell me!

Rhetorical question is it not? People like the game and the friends that they play with.

Why is it you think that people who ask for balance changes shouldn't be playing the game?

Your not asking for balance, your asking for nerfs. Does every player die to ambush spam??????
I dont! So what your asking for is a nerf based on your personal inability to deal with that skill. So what does that mean? Huh? L2P!!!!!!

Talcyndl wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Why is it you think that people who ask for balance changes shouldn't be playing the game?

Because he likes spamming ambush?

I don't spam ambush! I personally have had it spammed on me though and ive died from it sometimes and sometimes I kill who ever is spamming it. There's 2 points I'm trying to make here.

1. Everything in this game (currently) has a counter offer some sort.
2. Just because you die or are annoyed by a certain skill doesn't mean it's OP, and should be nerfed!

IE, L2P!

Takllin

Aquanova wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

Why does anyone still play this game?.....huh?

You tell me!

Rhetorical question is it not? People like the game and the friends that they play with.

Why is it you think that people who ask for balance changes shouldn't be playing the game?

Your not asking for balance, your asking for nerfs. Does every player die to ambush spam??????
I dont! So what your asking for is a nerf based on your personal inability to deal with that skill. So what does that mean? Huh? L2P!!!!!!

Talcyndl wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Why is it you think that people who ask for balance changes shouldn't be playing the game?

Because he likes spamming ambush?

I don't spam ambush! I personally have had it spammed on me though and ive died from it sometimes and sometimes I kill who ever is spamming it. There's 2 points I'm trying to make here.

1. Everything in this game (currently) has a counter offer some sort.
2. Just because you die or are annoyed by a certain skill doesn't mean it's OP, and should be nerfed!

IE, L2P!

You call it a nerf, we call it balance. You still didn't answer my question. I don't have much issue with Ambush spam, you know what assumptions do right?

In bold, LOL.

Cody

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

making ambush require a minimum range would not nerf it at all, it could still be used constantly, but it would not be at point blank range, which would be good seeing as how gap closers now inflict their victims with stuns/heavy snares that essentially immobilize the victim. Having a gap closer that can do that at point blank is unbalanced when every other gap closer cannot, and I am a stamblade saying this.

Besides, I have heard rumors that ZOS may end up un-doing this stun via gap closer nonsense, if they do then this change to ambush will not be needed. Ambush is not the main target here, it is people trying to alleviate the ridiculous state of gap closers until they are fixed.

L2P? I can play. I have dealt with this abuse of gap closing stuns via ambush many times. it does not change how unbalanced it is. You call it nerfing ambush, we call it balancing it with every other gap closer in the game. You want to see a real nerf request? find a thread on here discussing Shadow cloak, THOSE are nerf threads.

Talcyndl

Aquanova wrote: »

1. Everything in this game (currently) has a counter offer some sort.
2. Just because you die or are annoyed by a certain skill doesn't mean it's OP, and should be nerfed!

I'm going to assume you don't know or understand the current mechanism in place which applies a short unbreakable stun (ie, player can take NO action) every time a gap closer is cast. This was put in place by ZOS to allow players to counter things like sorcs spamming bolt escape. It lets the gap closer player get in an attack after the gap closer, before the other player can escape.

ZOS has stated that they now realize there is a problem with this system in that what was intended to be a very brief stun can turn into an extended period where the targeted player can't do anything (ie, no counter possible). This occurs when either (1) multiple players all use gap closers against the same target or (2) when a NB spams ambush repeatedly. Number 2 is what this thread addresses.

So, there is no counter and it's not a L2P issue. It's a mechanic ZOS introduced that is broken. They admit it is broken and intend to (try to) fix it in Thieves Guild by turning the stun into a root (ie, you can attack, etc.). But, in the meantime, there is a simple fix to Number 2 - one that also makes sense for other reasons (why should NB's have a "gap" closer that applies the stun or root, but doesn't require a gap).

Aquanova

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

I am sorry but if you think this is a *** nerf thread then you are just ignorant. This is logistical and abilities of the same type "gap closers" in this instance, should all be equal on their functionality.

Well I'm not ignorant first off. I do agree that gap closers need to be about equal in their functionality, but that hasn't been the case for months now. And it's not limited to Ambush/Lotus Fan being perceived as being OP.

From a DK'S stand point, all the other gap closers are OP. Chains either pulls the target to me or me to the target. Very disorienting and adds a challenge to playing the game.

When you guys ask for changes like the one your asking for, try to consider what other classes have and are going through before you make these requests.

I've excepted that certain classes have skills that may seem OP to me, like Hardend Ward, Puncturing Sweep, BoL, Cloak and Fear. Ambush is just another one. Why can't you guy's?

Do we really need another round of nerfs?

Cody

Aquanova wrote: »

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

I am sorry but if you think this is a *** nerf thread then you are just ignorant. This is logistical and abilities of the same type "gap closers" in this instance, should all be equal on their functionality.

Well I'm not ignorant first off. I do agree that gap closers need to be about equal in their functionality, but that hasn't been the case for months now. And it's not limited to Ambush/Lotus Fan being perceived as being OP.

From a DK'S stand point, all the other gap closers are OP. Chains either pulls the target to me or me to the target. Very disorienting and adds a challenge to playing the game.

When you guys ask for changes like the one your asking for, try to consider what other classes have and are going through before you make these requests.

I've excepted that certain classes have skills that may seem OP to me, like Hardend Ward, Puncturing Sweep, BoL, Cloak and Fear. Ambush is just another one. Why can't you guy's?

Do we really need another round of nerfs?

no one said it is limited to ambush, we are saying it can be abused more by ambush, which it can because the ability does not have a minimum range requirement. THIS WOULD NOT BE A NERF. Every other gap closer in this game has a minimum distance requirement, ambush/lotus fan would not suffer in any way besides not being usable at point blank range with this change, which it does not need to be with the current new mechanism in place for gap closers.

stun locking is much worse than hardened ward.(which is not OP, its the way shields can be stacked that lets sorcs get these absurd damage shield numbers, but thats another thread). and every other ability that is listed. You do not understand the mechanic we are complaining about or are ignoring it because you see NERF . We are not targeting ambush directly, in fact if ZOS fixes this absurd gap close stun spam nonsense this change will not be needed, ambush can be used at point blank and, unfortunately, is a gap closer, meaning it uses that new gap closer stun. if this new stun will not be dealt with, then ambush will need a range requirement or this PvP will be nothing but stun locking NBs spamming SA while you cant even move.

I myself have dealt with every single ability up there that you listed, cloak being the easiest of them all, it is not a L2P issue, I left WoW PvP because of stun locking nonsense, and I will be damned if I sit by and let it seep into ESO.

FMonk

Aquanova wrote: »

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

I am sorry but if you think this is a *** nerf thread then you are just ignorant. This is logistical and abilities of the same type "gap closers" in this instance, should all be equal on their functionality.

Well I'm not ignorant first off. I do agree that gap closers need to be about equal in their functionality, but that hasn't been the case for months now. And it's not limited to Ambush/Lotus Fan being perceived as being OP.

From a DK'S stand point, all the other gap closers are OP. Chains either pulls the target to me or me to the target. Very disorienting and adds a challenge to playing the game.

When you guys ask for changes like the one your asking for, try to consider what other classes have and are going through before you make these requests.

I've excepted that certain classes have skills that may seem OP to me, like Hardend Ward, Puncturing Sweep, BoL, Cloak and Fear. Ambush is just another one. Why can't you guy's?

Do we really need another round of nerfs?

I don't think you understand what a nerf actually is. A minimum range would not affect the skill at all when using it for its intended purpose. If you ambush a sorc and he blinks away, you can still immediately ambush again, because there's a gap to be closed. This would only stop nightblades who purposely abuse the gap closer root/silence by spamming ambush at point-blank range. This is mostly a problem in small group outnumbered situations. Nobody is ever going to kill me 1v1 only spamming ambush, but if I'm fighting more than one person and one of them is spambushing, it's basically a death sentence, because there is no counter to not being able to use abilities.

Cody

FMonk wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Here we go again with another sissy nerf thread!

Why do you guys who ask for this stuff still even play the game?.....huh?

I am sorry but if you think this is a *** nerf thread then you are just ignorant. This is logistical and abilities of the same type "gap closers" in this instance, should all be equal on their functionality.

Well I'm not ignorant first off. I do agree that gap closers need to be about equal in their functionality, but that hasn't been the case for months now. And it's not limited to Ambush/Lotus Fan being perceived as being OP.

From a DK'S stand point, all the other gap closers are OP. Chains either pulls the target to me or me to the target. Very disorienting and adds a challenge to playing the game.

When you guys ask for changes like the one your asking for, try to consider what other classes have and are going through before you make these requests.

I've excepted that certain classes have skills that may seem OP to me, like Hardend Ward, Puncturing Sweep, BoL, Cloak and Fear. Ambush is just another one. Why can't you guy's?

Do we really need another round of nerfs?

I don't think you understand what a nerf actually is. A minimum range would not affect the skill at all when using it for its intended purpose. If you ambush a sorc and he blinks away, you can still immediately ambush again, because there's a gap to be closed. This would only stop nightblades who purposely abuse the gap closer root/silence by spamming ambush at point-blank range. This is mostly a problem in small group outnumbered situations. Nobody is ever going to kill me 1v1 only spamming ambush, but if I'm fighting more than one person and one of them is spambushing, it's basically a death sentence, because there is no counter to not being able to use abilities.

even in a 1v1 it can be a death sentence, NBs will not just spam ambush the entire battle, they will stun you with it then proceed to smack you in the back with WB or SA while you stand there defensless. its absurd

Ghostbane

...don't gap closers need a gap?




Just sayin kids.

Talcyndl

Ghostbane wrote: »

...don't gap closers need a gap?

Quick, someone get ZOS a dictionary.

Cody

Ghostbane wrote: »

...don't gap closers need a gap?




Just sayin kids.

nerf dark cloak:D lol.

Farorin

We do not need a minimum range on gap closers.

Cody

Farorin wrote: »

We do not need a minimum range on gap closers.

why?

MormondPayne_EP

rokrdt05 wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

The range for Ambush (1sec root)/Lotus Fan (6 second snare) is 22 Meters which falls short of most ranged abilities in the game. Bolt Escape/Streak has a smaller area of effect but also does not have a minimum range to use. Both skills are similar in the fact that the animation is "similar." These skills are also very expensive to spam, even though it's routinely spammed by players. I'm not sure why this makes people rage so hard... it's no different from any other skill being spammed in game. Find a counter.

Toppling/Explosive Charge both have a minimum range as well as the 1H skill Shield Charge. These skills are also similar in the way they perform.

As it is, I don't think anything needs to change IMO.

You are totally clueless aren't you?

When you are sitting on top of your opponent and your spambush the mini-stun inherent to the *** design by the Devs causes you to not be able to move...

Including a minimum range on Ambush will stop this perma-stun that is not an actual game mechanic.

So really, just stop talking because you just sound like a scrub who has spambush on all 5 ability slots and the ultimate slot as well.

lol insults? You must be so good...

In relation to knowing what I am talking about, yes, I am clearly better than you are because you are either wilfully ignorant or deliberately lying about the problem with the gap closer mini stun...

Tankqull

rokrdt05 wrote: »

The range for Ambush (1sec root)/Lotus Fan (6 second snare) is 22 Meters which falls short of most ranged abilities in the game. Bolt Escape/Streak has a smaller area of effect but also does not have a minimum range to use. Both skills are similar in the fact that the animation is "similar." These skills are also very expensive to spam, even though it's routinely spammed by players. I'm not sure why this makes people rage so hard... it's no different from any other skill being spammed in game. Find a counter.

Toppling/Explosive Charge both have a minimum range as well as the 1H skill Shield Charge. These skills are also similar in the way they perform.

As it is, I don't think anything needs to change IMO.

both do not have a delay between activation and application of the transition as ambush does.
so yes add a minimum range to ambush but then remove the application delay, having both simply breaks the ability.

reften

Fine by me as a NB. I only use it as a gap closer or on a fleeing enemy.

frozywozy

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

Well I disagree completely about it not changing anything since it won't be spamable at 1 meter range or right on top of you. It's just a simple fact that it needs to be changed. Also lotus fan is non dodgeable so it can be spammed on someone that just rolled dodged and tried to cloak, still brought out.

6months ago : Constant NB QQ About flamelash hitting through dodge roll
6months later : Lotus Fan still hit through dodge roll and NBs whistling innocently

Kelleton

Yes, min 5 meters.

Lets also add an increase in cost to dark cloak if cast within 5 seconds

that should fix the current issues with nightblade

Alucardo

Remove that god damn snare gap closers have and you can ambush me all day long. Seriously, all day. Because ain't no Nightblade gonna kill me doing that anyway.

riverdragon72

Nothing will be changed on nightblades...why? The QQ will be worse than a whole pack of PMSing 14 year old girls.

God_flakes

This thread is nothing but thumb sucking and cry babying. Heck why don't we just get rid of all the dang skills and all stand around singing kumbaya???

Lucky28

I don't think ambush needs a minimum range. they just need to undo the *** they did to gap closers. they undo those changes and someone tries to spam ambush on you, all the power to 'em. it will be punishable.

i am not however, in favor of a nerf to ambush which doesn't even come close to treating to root problem with gap closers.

hammayolettuce

Lucky28 wrote: »

I don't think ambush needs a minimum range. they just need to undo the *** they did to gap closers. they undo those changes and someone tries to spam ambush on you, all the power to 'em. it will be punishable.

i am not however, in favor of a nerf to ambush which doesn't even come close to treating to root problem with gap closers.

Please explain how adding a minor minimum range like every other gap closer is a nerf? Honestly please explain. I've yet to see a real explanation.

*

JDar

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

I don't think ambush needs a minimum range. they just need to undo the *** they did to gap closers. they undo those changes and someone tries to spam ambush on you, all the power to 'em. it will be punishable.

i am not however, in favor of a nerf to ambush which doesn't even come close to treating to root problem with gap closers.

Please explain how adding a minor minimum range like every other gap closer is a nerf? Honestly please explain. I've yet to see a real explanation.

*

To play devil's advocate? It limits the range of possibility within which you can use a certain ability. That's a nerf. But I am not disagreeing with you, @hammayolettuce . Nevermind whether you should be using a gap closer within 4 meters -- obviously that's stupid and we all want it to stop. You shouldn't need to do that if you're a good player. It cheapens the ability to position oneself and cheapens expensive maneuvering skills like Rapid Maneuvers and Dodge Roll or sprint. But it is human nature to want shortcuts.

I wager that people will give Well-Fitted a second look if all gap closers were given a mininum distance and made to be a lot more expensive. Frankly I think that would be good for the game, to make sprinting in combat more lucrative.