End Game Stamina Nightblade Build- PvE DPS (Updated for Clockwork City)

kylewwefan

Sharpened Daggers all the way. The critical hit damage multiplier from this setup makes them twice as effective than swords or maces.

Mordenkainen

kylewwefan wrote: »

Sharpened Daggers all the way. The critical hit damage multiplier from this setup makes them twice as effective than swords or maces.

That confused me a bit.

I know daggers grant more critical hit chance with the "Twin Blade and Blunt" passive, but where are you taking more critical hit DAMAGE from by simply wielding two daggers?

kylewwefan

Someone with more math than me may explain better but I try. The Crit % you see on character sheet is only how often you will Crit. The CHD is Crit hit damage, that's a multiplier. This is why you use trap beast. The shadow. Night blade, daggers.

Everyone starts off with .5 multiplier. Things keep getting added to it. .5 means Crit is one and a half times regular damage. Champion tree, precise strikes adds more damage to your Crit also. You end up doubling your damage with Crit.

I'm terrible at explain sorry.

Crit% is how often you have Crit
CHD is how much damage Crit does. Everyone's base is 1 1/2 one and a half. You can raise it a bit with things.

So if normal hit is 10,000 then Crit hit is 15,000 at base. If you raise the CHD 2 you Crit 20,000

Mordenkainen

Alright, so say I'm going for

5 Night Mothers Gaze
2 Kraghs
3 Agility (Jewelry only)
2 Hunding Daggers

Would there be anything better without looking at Trial gear?
Figured I'd ask because I am tad unsure about the sets you find out in the open world since One Tamriel.

Also please bare with me if my question/s seem stupid, I never played anything stamina related before.

Gilliamtherogue

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Alright, so say I'm going for

5 Night Mothers Gaze
2 Kraghs
3 Agility (Jewelry only)
2 Hunding Daggers

Would there be anything better without looking at Trial gear?
Figured I'd ask because I am tad unsure about the sets you find out in the open world since One Tamriel.

Also please bare with me if my question/s seem stupid, I never played anything stamina related before.

5 NMG if no one else is running it, but if another player has it then swap it to 5 Twice Born Star
2 Kraghs for pure single target, 2 Velidreth for AoE
3 Vicious Ophidian or Alkosh over Agility inside dungeons+trials
2 Maelstrom Daggers is optimal unless doing dungeons/vMA where burst is favored, in which you'd run 5 VO then.

Mordenkainen

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Alright, so say I'm going for

5 Night Mothers Gaze
2 Kraghs
3 Agility (Jewelry only)
2 Hunding Daggers

Would there be anything better without looking at Trial gear?
Figured I'd ask because I am tad unsure about the sets you find out in the open world since One Tamriel.

Also please bare with me if my question/s seem stupid, I never played anything stamina related before.

5 NMG if no one else is running it, but if another player has it then swap it to 5 Twice Born Star
2 Kraghs for pure single target, 2 Velidreth for AoE
3 Vicious Ophidian or Alkosh over Agility inside dungeons+trials
2 Maelstrom Daggers is optimal unless doing dungeons/vMA where burst is favored, in which you'd run 5 VO then.

Yeah, that's a lot more further along the road though. I literally got no trial gear at all for my NB so this was more thought as stuff basically to start with and eventually get that sweet Maelstrom/Trial stuff.

Gilliamtherogue

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Alright, so say I'm going for

5 Night Mothers Gaze
2 Kraghs
3 Agility (Jewelry only)
2 Hunding Daggers

Would there be anything better without looking at Trial gear?
Figured I'd ask because I am tad unsure about the sets you find out in the open world since One Tamriel.

Also please bare with me if my question/s seem stupid, I never played anything stamina related before.

5 NMG if no one else is running it, but if another player has it then swap it to 5 Twice Born Star
2 Kraghs for pure single target, 2 Velidreth for AoE
3 Vicious Ophidian or Alkosh over Agility inside dungeons+trials
2 Maelstrom Daggers is optimal unless doing dungeons/vMA where burst is favored, in which you'd run 5 VO then.

Yeah, that's a lot more further along the road though. I literally got no trial gear at all for my NB so this was more thought as stuff basically to start with and eventually get that sweet Maelstrom/Trial stuff.

@Mordenkainen

If you're just starting off and trying to get into vMA then try something like 5 NMG, 3 Agility, and 4 Ashen Grip as you'll get some nice offensive stats and some extra health from Ashen. If you have access to Velidreth however you might want to run that as a 2 piece over 4 Ashen, and then fill in for health as a 2 piece or elsewhere.

You can also start doing normal trials pretty much immediately, since the requirements for them are absurdly low, and begin getting some Vicious Ophidian pieces, ideally 3 jewelry and 2 body pieces (non helm/shoulder). After you get a hold of 5 VO and 2 Maelstrom you can start doing Veteran Trials and getting gold VO jewelry, and maxing out your gear quality, etc.

Mordenkainen

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Alright, so say I'm going for

5 Night Mothers Gaze
2 Kraghs
3 Agility (Jewelry only)
2 Hunding Daggers

Would there be anything better without looking at Trial gear?
Figured I'd ask because I am tad unsure about the sets you find out in the open world since One Tamriel.

Also please bare with me if my question/s seem stupid, I never played anything stamina related before.

5 NMG if no one else is running it, but if another player has it then swap it to 5 Twice Born Star
2 Kraghs for pure single target, 2 Velidreth for AoE
3 Vicious Ophidian or Alkosh over Agility inside dungeons+trials
2 Maelstrom Daggers is optimal unless doing dungeons/vMA where burst is favored, in which you'd run 5 VO then.

Yeah, that's a lot more further along the road though. I literally got no trial gear at all for my NB so this was more thought as stuff basically to start with and eventually get that sweet Maelstrom/Trial stuff.

@Mordenkainen

If you're just starting off and trying to get into vMA then try something like 5 NMG, 3 Agility, and 4 Ashen Grip as you'll get some nice offensive stats and some extra health from Ashen. If you have access to Velidreth however you might want to run that as a 2 piece over 4 Ashen, and then fill in for health as a 2 piece or elsewhere.

You can also start doing normal trials pretty much immediately, since the requirements for them are absurdly low, and begin getting some Vicious Ophidian pieces, ideally 3 jewelry and 2 body pieces (non helm/shoulder). After you get a hold of 5 VO and 2 Maelstrom you can start doing Veteran Trials and getting gold VO jewelry, and maxing out your gear quality, etc.

That sounds like a plan. Thank you very much, one of the most helpful people I ever had the pleasure of talking to here on the forums.

I got a lot of crafting to do now.

Cheers!


Edit: Typos.

EldritchPenguin

What a fantastic build guide. I'll definitely have to run it sooner or later.

I'm really tempted to run it as a Dark Elf with Skoria and Sunderflame, since I love my Dark Elves. But I know that's probably not nearly as good of an idea as it sounds in my head. =P

Rataroto

I've been testing the 5 Viper and 5 Opdhidian Venom when there's no need for nmg/sunder/alkosh, I've been getting mixed results, but still points to tbs being the best, any words on these sets?

blackmamba24

@Gilliamtherogue thanks for sharing your build. I have a question though. I'm on ps4 and its kinda hard for me to do trials so I can't really get vo. I was wondering what do you think about

2x Velidreth
5 night mother
5 Spriggan
?

Gilliamtherogue

blackmamba24 wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue thanks for sharing your build. I have a question though. I'm on ps4 and its kinda hard for me to do trials so I can't really get vo. I was wondering what do you think about

2x Velidreth
5 night mother
5 Spriggan
?

That's an awful lot of penetration, putting you very near the point of redundancy. Unless you plan on stepping into trials, that will be almost useless in a lot of application. Might want to swap to 5 Leviathan from Spriggans, or 5 Hundings from Nightmother's.

blackmamba24

@Gilliamtherogue sorry I think I wasn't clear on what type of content I meant for maelstrom. Would the critical from leviathan be more beneficial than the penetration from Spriggan if major fracture isn't applied?

Gilliamtherogue

blackmamba24 wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue sorry I think I wasn't clear on what type of content I meant for maelstrom. Would the critical from leviathan be more beneficial than the penetration from Spriggan if major fracture isn't applied?

If Major Fracture isn't applied, then yes Spriggan's would be a feasible setup. Not sure why you wouldn't have Major Fracture applied as a Stamina Nightblade though.

Regardless, work on getting Vicious Ophidian, as it offers unparalleled damage and resource management in there.

bantycakes

@Gilliamtherogue Loving the addendum for 1T and the breakdown of which Undaunted set is best to fill in any weak spots. As always, great work, still striving to get close to this level!

squinceybones

Any idea's on what would be better between 2 sharpened axes or nirn dagger / sharpened axe. Maelstrom has not been kind dagger wise... I've been testing it on a stam sorc due to a similar rotation + being able to solo content without sacrificing said rotation and 2 axes seems better, could only imagine the bonus crit from NB + Khajit (master race) would make dual axes the stronger of the two. Also I've been struggling to get consistent results as to whether the twin blade and blunt passive stacks with 2 axes or if it remains static at 8%, mostly due to my poor LA weaving and rotation consistency.

Izaki

Kinda don't agree on 1 thing... Caltrops IMHO is most effective on a stamina sorcerer as you get a chance to proc implosion on all targets in the huge radius of this skill...

Gilliamtherogue

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Kinda don't agree on 1 thing... Caltrops IMHO is most effective on a stamina sorcerer as you get a chance to proc implosion on all targets in the huge radius of this skill...

@IzakiBrotheSs On trash I agree, which is why in Trials you have 2 people running Caltrops (if the raid even has 2 stam builds anymore). Ideally a Sorc and a NB. However on boss fights, by the time a boss (yes, even HM rakkhat) gets to 15%, there won't be much time before they're dead to let the proc rate of Implosion to really see a gain in damage to put them over the raw damage NB's get from having more Crit Chance and Crit Hit Damage. It's very close, but stam NB still puts out more damage with Caltrops (less than 1% difference though).

Instant

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Kinda don't agree on 1 thing... Caltrops IMHO is most effective on a stamina sorcerer as you get a chance to proc implosion on all targets in the huge radius of this skill...

@IzakiBrotheSs On trash I agree, which is why in Trials you have 2 people running Caltrops (if the raid even has 2 stam builds anymore). Ideally a Sorc and a NB. However on boss fights, by the time a boss (yes, even HM rakkhat) gets to 15%, there won't be much time before they're dead to let the proc rate of Implosion to really see a gain in damage to put them over the raw damage NB's get from having more Crit Chance and Crit Hit Damage. It's very close, but stam NB still puts out more damage with Caltrops (less than 1% difference though).

Stam sorc has
+5% physical damage,
+8% max stam,
+6% weapon damage
and implosion.
I dont think nb can beat that.

Izaki

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Kinda don't agree on 1 thing... Caltrops IMHO is most effective on a stamina sorcerer as you get a chance to proc implosion on all targets in the huge radius of this skill...

@IzakiBrotheSs On trash I agree, which is why in Trials you have 2 people running Caltrops (if the raid even has 2 stam builds anymore). Ideally a Sorc and a NB. However on boss fights, by the time a boss (yes, even HM rakkhat) gets to 15%, there won't be much time before they're dead to let the proc rate of Implosion to really see a gain in damage to put them over the raw damage NB's get from having more Crit Chance and Crit Hit Damage. It's very close, but stam NB still puts out more damage with Caltrops (less than 1% difference though).

Very true but Caltrops doesn't stack does it? So Maybe one person running anti-cavalry and the other razor?
I have a question about the opening rotation... So at the moment, I'm empowering Rend, drinking my potion and then applying Soul Harvest as soon as its up. Is it wise to do this or should I just save my ultimate for the next Rend (meaning that Soul Harvest will only be used in execute phase)?
Also I have another question: Relentless Focus. When is the best time to reapply it? I'm on console as well, so I can't exactly see when the buff has run out so what would you suggest. This is my biggest problem on NB. I just can't seem to figure out when to fire the Assassin's Scourge. So far I apply the buff and fire off the Scourge at the beginning of each rotation. I keep it on the bow bar so I can animation cancel it quicker with the bar swaps:
Relentless Focus > swap > Rapids > Rending > Rapids > swap > Trap > Hail > Injection > Assassin's Scourge > swap > Rapids x2 > Rending > Rapids > swap > Trap > Hail > Injection > Relentless Focus > swap > Rapids x2 > etc.
So basically I'm reapplying the buff and firing off the thing every 10 seconds... Good or bad? Should I Reapply Focus straight away or should I only do it every 20 seconds? Also should I fire the bow off during the execute phase or just focus on spamming Killer's Blade while keeping the empowered DoTs up?
Thanks!

Gilliamtherogue

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Kinda don't agree on 1 thing... Caltrops IMHO is most effective on a stamina sorcerer as you get a chance to proc implosion on all targets in the huge radius of this skill...

@IzakiBrotheSs On trash I agree, which is why in Trials you have 2 people running Caltrops (if the raid even has 2 stam builds anymore). Ideally a Sorc and a NB. However on boss fights, by the time a boss (yes, even HM rakkhat) gets to 15%, there won't be much time before they're dead to let the proc rate of Implosion to really see a gain in damage to put them over the raw damage NB's get from having more Crit Chance and Crit Hit Damage. It's very close, but stam NB still puts out more damage with Caltrops (less than 1% difference though).

Very true but Caltrops doesn't stack does it? So Maybe one person running anti-cavalry and the other razor?
I have a question about the opening rotation... So at the moment, I'm empowering Rend, drinking my potion and then applying Soul Harvest as soon as its up. Is it wise to do this or should I just save my ultimate for the next Rend (meaning that Soul Harvest will only be used in execute phase)?
Also I have another question: Relentless Focus. When is the best time to reapply it? I'm on console as well, so I can't exactly see when the buff has run out so what would you suggest. This is my biggest problem on NB. I just can't seem to figure out when to fire the Assassin's Scourge. So far I apply the buff and fire off the Scourge at the beginning of each rotation. I keep it on the bow bar so I can animation cancel it quicker with the bar swaps:
Relentless Focus > swap > Rapids > Rending > Rapids > swap > Trap > Hail > Injection > Assassin's Scourge > swap > Rapids x2 > Rending > Rapids > swap > Trap > Hail > Injection > Relentless Focus > swap > Rapids x2 > etc.
So basically I'm reapplying the buff and firing off the thing every 10 seconds... Good or bad? Should I Reapply Focus straight away or should I only do it every 20 seconds? Also should I fire the bow off during the execute phase or just focus on spamming Killer's Blade while keeping the empowered DoTs up?
Thanks!

Caltrops does not stack, but in trials during group splits or large pulls, one person cannot cover all of the area. This means running 2 Caltrops is ideal.

Save your ultimate for Rend until the boss is near execute phase. Once the boss gets 25% or under you'll want to do what you're doing with casting empowered Rend - > Soul Harvest, but then after that use exclusively Soul Harvest.

I reapply Relentless Focus 1-2 seconds before the 20s duration falls off. Fire the Spectral Bow when it appears, but don't recast until the 10% stam regen and 8% dmg is fading. In Execute don't worry about firing the bow, just keep the buff up.

Gilliamtherogue

Instant wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Kinda don't agree on 1 thing... Caltrops IMHO is most effective on a stamina sorcerer as you get a chance to proc implosion on all targets in the huge radius of this skill...

@IzakiBrotheSs On trash I agree, which is why in Trials you have 2 people running Caltrops (if the raid even has 2 stam builds anymore). Ideally a Sorc and a NB. However on boss fights, by the time a boss (yes, even HM rakkhat) gets to 15%, there won't be much time before they're dead to let the proc rate of Implosion to really see a gain in damage to put them over the raw damage NB's get from having more Crit Chance and Crit Hit Damage. It's very close, but stam NB still puts out more damage with Caltrops (less than 1% difference though).

Stam sorc has
+5% physical damage,
+8% max stam,
+6% weapon damage
and implosion.
I dont think nb can beat that.

@Instant
6% Critical Strike. (~8% damage)
10% Critical Strike Damage. (~12% damage)
Applying NMG. (5.16% damage for all stam builds)

vs
5% physical (5% damage)
8% stam (~3k more stam, ~4% increased Caltrop damage)
Believe you meant 4% weapon damage (main bar has Bound Arma & Hurricane, so 4%) (~2% increase Caltrop damage)
Implosion's proc rate from Caltrops would be 6% chance every second, or ~17s to gain one Implosion proc based off the math, which is ~25k proc damage gained every 17s.

In conclusion; 20% damage bonus on caltrops for the NB + 5.16% for all stam, or 25.16% increased Caltrop damage.
vs
11% damage bonus to caltrops + ~25k damage every 17s.
Therefor, you'd want a NB running it over a Stam sorc. Plus, Sorcs don't have the bar space to run Caltrops (unless they drop Surge) which is ill advised in real raiding, as you need to have form of self healing at all times to be competitive.
Only time you'd want a Sorc to use it over a NB is if the Sorc is wearing NMG instead of the NB, but that would be a DPS deficit as NB's are pulling less overall damage than Sorcs.

Instant

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Kinda don't agree on 1 thing... Caltrops IMHO is most effective on a stamina sorcerer as you get a chance to proc implosion on all targets in the huge radius of this skill...

@IzakiBrotheSs On trash I agree, which is why in Trials you have 2 people running Caltrops (if the raid even has 2 stam builds anymore). Ideally a Sorc and a NB. However on boss fights, by the time a boss (yes, even HM rakkhat) gets to 15%, there won't be much time before they're dead to let the proc rate of Implosion to really see a gain in damage to put them over the raw damage NB's get from having more Crit Chance and Crit Hit Damage. It's very close, but stam NB still puts out more damage with Caltrops (less than 1% difference though).

Stam sorc has
+5% physical damage,
+8% max stam,
+6% weapon damage
and implosion.
I dont think nb can beat that.

@Instant
6% Critical Strike. (~8% damage)
10% Critical Strike Damage. (~12% damage)
Applying NMG. (5.16% damage for all stam builds)

vs
5% physical (5% damage)
8% stam (~3k more stam, ~4% increased Caltrop damage)
Believe you meant 4% weapon damage (main bar has Bound Arma & Hurricane, so 4%) (~2% increase Caltrop damage)
Implosion's proc rate from Caltrops would be 6% chance every second, or ~17s to gain one Implosion proc based off the math, which is ~25k proc damage gained every 17s.

In conclusion; 20% damage bonus on caltrops for the NB + 5.16% for all stam, or 25.16% increased Caltrop damage.
vs
11% damage bonus to caltrops + ~25k damage every 17s.
Therefor, you'd want a NB running it over a Stam sorc. Plus, Sorcs don't have the bar space to run Caltrops (unless they drop Surge) which is ill advised in real raiding, as you need to have form of self healing at all times to be competitive.
Only time you'd want a Sorc to use it over a NB is if the Sorc is wearing NMG instead of the NB, but that would be a DPS deficit as NB's are pulling less overall damage than Sorcs.

I think your math is a bit off. 6% crit chance is nowhere near 8% more damage. The following math term can be used to determine the damage increase:
-1+(1+(crit chance * crit damage))/(1+((crit chance + 6%)* crit damage))
Asssuming an average crit damage of 1.2 and a crit chance of 80% we get a damage increase of 3,7%.

The same goes for crit damage. 10% crit damage should be less than 5% dps gain.

I don't see why you prefer the NMG user to use caltrops. Obviously you get more damage out of caltrops from a player wearing TBS (assuming someone else is wearing NMG) and caltrops is not needed to get 100% uptime on the armor debuff. Btw NMG gives more than 5.16% damage inc as long as the target has more than 2580 armor left.

Also i disagree with what you say about the bar space. Self healing is not bad but most of the time it's spike damage that kills you. So in most cases the extra healing wont help much.

Gilliamtherogue

Instant wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Kinda don't agree on 1 thing... Caltrops IMHO is most effective on a stamina sorcerer as you get a chance to proc implosion on all targets in the huge radius of this skill...

@IzakiBrotheSs On trash I agree, which is why in Trials you have 2 people running Caltrops (if the raid even has 2 stam builds anymore). Ideally a Sorc and a NB. However on boss fights, by the time a boss (yes, even HM rakkhat) gets to 15%, there won't be much time before they're dead to let the proc rate of Implosion to really see a gain in damage to put them over the raw damage NB's get from having more Crit Chance and Crit Hit Damage. It's very close, but stam NB still puts out more damage with Caltrops (less than 1% difference though).

Stam sorc has
+5% physical damage,
+8% max stam,
+6% weapon damage
and implosion.
I dont think nb can beat that.

@Instant
6% Critical Strike. (~8% damage)
10% Critical Strike Damage. (~12% damage)
Applying NMG. (5.16% damage for all stam builds)

vs
5% physical (5% damage)
8% stam (~3k more stam, ~4% increased Caltrop damage)
Believe you meant 4% weapon damage (main bar has Bound Arma & Hurricane, so 4%) (~2% increase Caltrop damage)
Implosion's proc rate from Caltrops would be 6% chance every second, or ~17s to gain one Implosion proc based off the math, which is ~25k proc damage gained every 17s.

In conclusion; 20% damage bonus on caltrops for the NB + 5.16% for all stam, or 25.16% increased Caltrop damage.
vs
11% damage bonus to caltrops + ~25k damage every 17s.
Therefor, you'd want a NB running it over a Stam sorc. Plus, Sorcs don't have the bar space to run Caltrops (unless they drop Surge) which is ill advised in real raiding, as you need to have form of self healing at all times to be competitive.
Only time you'd want a Sorc to use it over a NB is if the Sorc is wearing NMG instead of the NB, but that would be a DPS deficit as NB's are pulling less overall damage than Sorcs.

I think your math is a bit off. 6% crit chance is nowhere near 8% more damage. The following math term can be used to determine the damage increase:
-1+(1+(crit chance * crit damage))/(1+((crit chance + 6%)* crit damage))
Asssuming an average crit damage of 1.2 and a crit chance of 80% we get a damage increase of 3,7%.

The same goes for crit damage. 10% crit damage should be less than 5% dps gain.

I don't see why you prefer the NMG user to use caltrops. Obviously you get more damage out of caltrops from a player wearing TBS (assuming someone else is wearing NMG) and caltrops is not needed to get 100% uptime on the armor debuff. Btw NMG gives more than 5.16% damage inc as long as the target has more than 2580 armor left.

Also i disagree with what you say about the bar space. Self healing is not bad but most of the time it's spike damage that kills you. So in most cases the extra healing wont help much.

Crit chance operates simply by interaction between Chance and damage, a more simple (why I use ~ in front) equation crit chance x CHD, or in this case .06 x 1.329(.5 base + .1 passive + .12 minor force + .183 full gold divines Shadow + .13 precise strikes x 1.3 Major Force) = .080574 or ~8% DPS.

Same for CHD. A stamina nightblade in endgame gear (wearing NMG) will have 93.8% Crit chance so it simply becomes .13 (.1 hemo passive becomes .13 when major force is applied) x .938 = .12194 or ~12%.

Also, the reason to have the NMG run Caltrops is because Caltrops encompasses a much larger area than anything else in our arsenal, meaning more targets are going to be afflicted with the armor debuff. You can't possibly apply NMG to all targets in trials where trash pulls are so spread out, but Caltrops will be able to cover much more. In terms of pure single target your argument stands, but is so infrequent compared to situations that favor the NB that it is redundant.

2580/500 (each 500 resist = 1% mit) = 5.16%. The damage you gain will be larger since they will mitigate less overall damage and your attacks will all see slightly different gains, but a good estimate is 5.16%, assuming all 2580 was reduced.

On regards to your self healing not being required, please go run a Veteran HM trial and tell me that a form of defense isn't required for DPS to run. I'd love to see a video of you doing HM Rakkhat, Mage, and so forth without running Vigor or Surge as a Stam Sorc


At the end of the day however, none of this matters anymore since Stamina Nightblades and Stamina builds overall have fallen so far out of favor in end game raiding within competitive groups due to lack of performance.

Instant

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Crit chance operates simply by interaction between Chance and damage, a more simple (why I use ~ in front) equation crit chance x CHD, or in this case .06 x 1.329(.5 base + .1 passive + .12 minor force + .183 full gold divines Shadow + .13 precise strikes x 1.3 Major Force) = .080574 or ~8% DPS.

Your equation has a very limited range of validity. It only works for base crit chance = 0%.

Also there are a few minor errors:
0.183 has to be 0.18 due to rounding
100% uptime on Major Force is highly unrealistic
0.06*1,329 <= 0,08 != 0,080574

Gilliamtherogue

Instant wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Crit chance operates simply by interaction between Chance and damage, a more simple (why I use ~ in front) equation crit chance x CHD, or in this case .06 x 1.329(.5 base + .1 passive + .12 minor force + .183 full gold divines Shadow + .13 precise strikes x 1.3 Major Force) = .080574 or ~8% DPS.

Your equation has a very limited range of validity. It only works for base crit chance = 0%.

Also there are a few minor errors:
0.183 has to be 0.18 due to rounding
100% uptime on Major Force is highly unrealistic
0.06*1,329 <= 0,08 != 0,080574

CHD only rounds down after the final calculation, as all internal calculations in game do. If you have 12% increased weapon damage of say, 154, it would be 18 instead of 18.48. However if you were to add 12% of 154 and 16% of 154 it would be (18.48 + 24.64 ) = 43 instead of 42. Therefor the final CHD would be 1.32 instead of 1.329. However once you gain another source of .001, it will become 1.33.

And yes, that is correct about 100% uptime being unrealistic. But we're also assuming many other things with the math at hand. Even if we were to assume 50% major force uptime, the NB's raw damage would be ahead of the Sorc's. I have already agreed there are instances in which the Sorc would beat the NB pt for pt in damage in a few unique instances, but not without incurring survivability losses which would not bode well in the content that we are using our numbers from.

Instant

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Crit chance operates simply by interaction between Chance and damage, a more simple (why I use ~ in front) equation crit chance x CHD, or in this case .06 x 1.329(.5 base + .1 passive + .12 minor force + .183 full gold divines Shadow + .13 precise strikes x 1.3 Major Force) = .080574 or ~8% DPS.

Your equation has a very limited range of validity. It only works for base crit chance = 0%.

Also there are a few minor errors:
0.183 has to be 0.18 due to rounding
100% uptime on Major Force is highly unrealistic
0.06*1,329 <= 0,08 != 0,080574

CHD only rounds down after the final calculation, as all internal calculations in game do. If you have 12% increased weapon damage of say, 154, it would be 18 instead of 18.48. However if you were to add 12% of 154 and 16% of 154 it would be (18.48 + 24.64 ) = 43 instead of 42. Therefor the final CHD would be 1.32 instead of 1.329. However once you gain another source of .001, it will become 1.33.

And yes, that is correct about 100% uptime being unrealistic. But we're also assuming many other things with the math at hand. Even if we were to assume 50% major force uptime, the NB's raw damage would be ahead of the Sorc's. I have already agreed there are instances in which the Sorc would beat the NB pt for pt in damage in a few unique instances, but not without incurring survivability losses which would not bode well in the content that we are using our numbers from.

Let's assume that rounding happens ONLY at the end of the calculation. That means elfborn jump points with the shadow mundus are different to jump points wihtout the shadow mundus. I'm 99% sure that's not true.

Gilliamtherogue

Instant wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Crit chance operates simply by interaction between Chance and damage, a more simple (why I use ~ in front) equation crit chance x CHD, or in this case .06 x 1.329(.5 base + .1 passive + .12 minor force + .183 full gold divines Shadow + .13 precise strikes x 1.3 Major Force) = .080574 or ~8% DPS.

Your equation has a very limited range of validity. It only works for base crit chance = 0%.

Also there are a few minor errors:
0.183 has to be 0.18 due to rounding
100% uptime on Major Force is highly unrealistic
0.06*1,329 <= 0,08 != 0,080574

CHD only rounds down after the final calculation, as all internal calculations in game do. If you have 12% increased weapon damage of say, 154, it would be 18 instead of 18.48. However if you were to add 12% of 154 and 16% of 154 it would be (18.48 + 24.64 ) = 43 instead of 42. Therefor the final CHD would be 1.32 instead of 1.329. However once you gain another source of .001, it will become 1.33.

And yes, that is correct about 100% uptime being unrealistic. But we're also assuming many other things with the math at hand. Even if we were to assume 50% major force uptime, the NB's raw damage would be ahead of the Sorc's. I have already agreed there are instances in which the Sorc would beat the NB pt for pt in damage in a few unique instances, but not without incurring survivability losses which would not bode well in the content that we are using our numbers from.

Let's assume that rounding happens ONLY at the end of the calculation. That means elfborn jump points with the shadow mundus are different to jump points wihtout the shadow mundus. I'm 99% sure that's not true.

That's because Piercing and Elfborn are separate entities. Shadow, Minor Force, and Templar/NB passive give flat Critical Strike Damage, while Piercing gives Weapon Critical Strike Damage and Elfborn gives Spell Critical Strike Damage. They are unique and don't get added the same way that other sources do.

BuddyAces

I be dumb. Could someone give what the rotation would be without maelstrom weapons?

gard

BuddyAces wrote: »

I be dumb. Could someone give what the rotation would be without maelstrom weapons?

Read through the thread - I'm almost certain that non maelstrom weapon rotation has been covered.