End Game Stamina Nightblade Build- PvE DPS (Updated for Clockwork City)

AtmaDarkwolf

Very late to this thread, but question to OP:

How does your rotation go?

I've tried this build(minus caltrops, add in twisted path for an extra dot, no maelstrom weapons) and the DPS is great(min 20k, up and beyond 30k if I can get all dot's going) but I find it a dps loss most times to 're apply' dots.

See bow bar dot's last 10 seconds, it takes 3-4 seconds(counting weapon switch, considering perfect drop of hail+path+injection) and add 2 seconds for buffs if used(relentless and if needed, siphoning) means you only have another 3(or less) seconds to apply trap, rending, and maybe one or two uses of flurry before your back re-applying dots.

I have found my dps actually improves if I only do hail OR injection (with buffs) because less time swapping weapons, and more time weaving flurry.

So question is, how exactly do you do this and keep those dot's all going and NOT lose dps due to 'lost seconds'

kadar

Hey @Gilliamtherogue

So I've been running this build for awhile after getting vMA daggers. Looking at some data from vet Maw last night I noticed that the way I was weaving was preventing Rearming Trap from getting buffed by Cruel flurry. I had heard that Trap was not consuming Cruel Flurry, so I was weaving like this, Rapids > Trap > Rending Slashes > Rapids > ect. Thinking that both Trap and Rending were getting buffed by the same proc.

After testing last night/today, I realized that Trap does not become buffed by Cruel Flurry upon cast, it becomes buffed when the trap actually activates 1.5 seconds later. I if I try to buff both Trap and another DoT (in my case, Rending) with the same Cruel Flurry proc, because of how fast I'm weaving, Rending consumes Cruel Flurry before the trap actually activates. The result being, Trap isn't buffed by Cruel Flurry.

So one way (I know there have to be others) I found to successfully buff both Trap and Rending with the same proc is:
Rapids > Trap > Heavy attack > Rending. The heavy attack provides the time for the Trap to activate and I can get Rending off right before Cruel Flurry would expire.

Have you done any testing with the funky (bugged) mechanic of buffing Trap? What does your weave look like when you successfully buff each DoT with Cruel Flurry?

UPDATE: As I continue to test this, I'm finding that Trap will not get buffed unless Cruel Flurry is triggered prior to casting Trap and the same proc goes unconsumed until the Trap activates 1.5 seconds later. If a second Cruel Flurry overrides the first, Trap will not be buffed.

Zartuim

Hi there,

First time joining and posting on these forums, so please forgive me if I am unaware of proper terminology for things.

I noticed this post is all about end-game builds (I am lvl 50 with only 50 Champion points) and I have a LONG way to go.

I was wondering, if I noticed things correctly, you run character points in Stamina. you nothing in health or Majika.

If I can ask, do you run health on your enchantments for armor, I saw nothing posted about your enchantments? (forgive me if I missed where you wrote this down)

Gilliamtherogue

The_Outsider wrote: »

Hey @Gilliamtherogue

So I've been running this build for awhile after getting vMA daggers. Looking at some data from vet Maw last night I noticed that the way I was weaving was preventing Rearming Trap from getting buffed by Cruel flurry. I had heard that Trap was not consuming Cruel Flurry, so I was weaving like this, Rapids > Trap > Rending Slashes > Rapids > ect. Thinking that both Trap and Rending were getting buffed by the same proc.

After testing last night/today, I realized that Trap does not become buffed by Cruel Flurry upon cast, it becomes buffed when the trap actually activates 1.5 seconds later. I if I try to buff both Trap and another DoT (in my case, Rending) with the same Cruel Flurry proc, because of how fast I'm weaving, Rending consumes Cruel Flurry before the trap actually activates. The result being, Trap isn't buffed by Cruel Flurry.

So one way (I know there have to be others) I found to successfully buff both Trap and Rending with the same proc is:
Rapids > Trap > Heavy attack > Rending. The heavy attack provides the time for the Trap to activate and I can get Rending off right before Cruel Flurry would expire.

Have you done any testing with the funky (bugged) mechanic of buffing Trap? What does your weave look like when you successfully buff each DoT with Cruel Flurry?

UPDATE: As I continue to test this, I'm finding that Trap will not get buffed unless Cruel Flurry is triggered prior to casting Trap and the same proc goes unconsumed until the Trap activates 1.5 seconds later. If a second Cruel Flurry overrides the first, Trap will not be buffed.

@The_Outsider
The best work around for this is to Rapid Strikes -> Trap -> Bar swap -> Arrow barrage -> Poison Injection. This will allow both trap and inject to get buffed with no operational loss incurred.

Gilliamtherogue

Zartuim wrote: »

Hi there,

First time joining and posting on these forums, so please forgive me if I am unaware of proper terminology for things.

I noticed this post is all about end-game builds (I am lvl 50 with only 50 Champion points) and I have a LONG way to go.

I was wondering, if I noticed things correctly, you run character points in Stamina. you nothing in health or Majika.

If I can ask, do you run health on your enchantments for armor, I saw nothing posted about your enchantments? (forgive me if I missed where you wrote this down)

-Correct, this build is meant for pure end game (300+ CP)

- runs all Attribute points into Stamina for maximum DPS yield (you may use less and put into health if you are still learning the build)

-I run no health anywhere in my build. I run all stamina enchants, since I am familiar with mechanics enough to avoid them. Once you are comfortable enough with the spec, the only instances you should be dying are to unlucky layered mechanics or personal mistakes.

kadar

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Hey @Gilliamtherogue

So I've been running this build for awhile after getting vMA daggers. Looking at some data from vet Maw last night I noticed that the way I was weaving was preventing Rearming Trap from getting buffed by Cruel flurry. I had heard that Trap was not consuming Cruel Flurry, so I was weaving like this, Rapids > Trap > Rending Slashes > Rapids > ect. Thinking that both Trap and Rending were getting buffed by the same proc.

After testing last night/today, I realized that Trap does not become buffed by Cruel Flurry upon cast, it becomes buffed when the trap actually activates 1.5 seconds later. I if I try to buff both Trap and another DoT (in my case, Rending) with the same Cruel Flurry proc, because of how fast I'm weaving, Rending consumes Cruel Flurry before the trap actually activates. The result being, Trap isn't buffed by Cruel Flurry.

So one way (I know there have to be others) I found to successfully buff both Trap and Rending with the same proc is:
Rapids > Trap > Heavy attack > Rending. The heavy attack provides the time for the Trap to activate and I can get Rending off right before Cruel Flurry would expire.

Have you done any testing with the funky (bugged) mechanic of buffing Trap? What does your weave look like when you successfully buff each DoT with Cruel Flurry?

UPDATE: As I continue to test this, I'm finding that Trap will not get buffed unless Cruel Flurry is triggered prior to casting Trap and the same proc goes unconsumed until the Trap activates 1.5 seconds later. If a second Cruel Flurry overrides the first, Trap will not be buffed.

@The_Outsider
The best work around for this is to Rapid Strikes -> Trap -> Bar swap -> Arrow barrage -> Poison Injection. This will allow both trap and inject to get buffed with no operational loss incurred.

Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for. The Heavy attack thing was working for me since I wear Mephala and need to HA anyway, but because I often open with a HA, I was wasting them doing it every time I refreshed trap. Thanks for the tip.

gard

So what's best for straight up max DPS? NMG or TBS?
Also, rearming trap or rending slashes?

susmitds

gard wrote: »

So what's best for straight up max DPS? NMG or TBS?
Also, rearming trap or rending slashes?

Both in both cases.

gard

Ok, based on this, what dps should I reasonably expect?
This is with blue health/stam food but no other buffs.
My max single target dps on manticora is 15k when the stars are all aligned. I suspect it's me.
Although, it's possible that I miss some dps because someone else runs caltrops or other technical issues like that.
What changes can I make that will result in biggest improvement?

(I know there are things which aren't optimal, but I'd like to focus on biggest gains first.)

gard

I changed to Shadow mundus and swapped out rending slahes for rearming trap, and SA for rapid strikes.
It gained me some dps but I'm nowhere near 20k.

AtmaDarkwolf

an alternative, to 'learn' the way it flows, is use 2h in your 2nd bar as buffs only (You would use bow when doing 'serious' stuff)

Basically use 2h bar for rally, relentless, siphon, caltrops, and shuffle and apply caltrops much as you would endless hail (using other buffs as needed) - main focus is learning the rotation of the MAIN bar before you get into a good barswap rotation(Thats prob your major DPS loss)

Learn the bar you have flurry on before u add in the bow skills (USing 2 hand lets you take a slight 2-3 second break every 15 or so seconds to rebuff/reapply caltrops, etc)

On main bar you would drop trap, do a full heavy attack, use twin slashes (Either rending or blood craze) and then flurry, while flurry is doing its thing, you should hold down your attack button to slap in a heavy attack just as flurry's animation completes (Since afaik flurry is one of those channeled skills/abilities you cannot animate cancel and still gain full benefit from it) then repeat the last 2 (Flurry with charging heavy) 3-4 times before you may re-apply slashes/trap

Once you got the above 'weaving' method down (you should manage 3-4 of the above rotations inside each of the 'buff cycles' where you would switch bars and reapply rally, relentless, and drop new caltrops)

Once you got the above 'masterd' switch to bow, use new potions(brut/crit+stam pots) and change up the rotation adding in hail and poison arrow. (Can move caltrops to your main bar again)

Really though, even with just the 'main bar' rotation you should be hitting 20-22k dps (without the buffs/skills from the back bar) if you get it down right.(This is without maelstrom weapons, and using the basic TBS/NMB + agility + valks setup)

Edit: Also, looking at your gear, your defiantly gonna want to switch at least 2 of your jewellery enchants to weapon damage, and your main hand to 'add weapon/spell damage' enchant(Forgot name) - use the crusher on the offhand.

Sou_rou

Any thoughts on whether the Rapid Fire bow ult line in the OT release might replace the Meteor line? At the base level, it looks like it delivers more damage per ult point, but I'm not sure how the second-tier plays out.

Or Lacerate (dual wield ult), which is less damage, but has a healing bonus.

Gilliamtherogue

Sou_rou wrote: »

Any thoughts on whether the Rapid Fire bow ult line in the OT release might replace the Meteor line? At the base level, it looks like it delivers more damage per ult point, but I'm not sure how the second-tier plays out.

Or Lacerate (dual wield ult), which is less damage, but has a healing bonus.

The issue with the Bow Ultimate is that it has no AoE potential, and must be stopped to channel. Ultimates such as Meteor, Dawnbreaker, and Rend may be casted and will continue dealing damage as you perform your rotation, allowing for much higher DPS. Channeled Ultimates deal more damage than other ultimates because they lock you out of performing other actions.

I have found Rend paired with VMA daggers to be slightly stronger than Shooting Star in single target situations, but loses to AoE due to Rend's awful hit box and size.

phreatophile

Thanks for being the go to resource for getting the most out of a Stamina Nightblade.

Without VMA daggers:
I'm looking forward to trying out 5 Spriggan's Thorn (3 jewelry, 2 weapons) instead of 3 Agility, 2 Leki's (all weapon damage on jewelry, all robust on both options)

On one side (Spriggan's):
1934 Stamina
129 Weapon Damage
4000 Physical penetration

On the other side (Agility, Leki's):
1400 stamina
193 Weapon Damage
129 Weapon Damage

I'm thinking 4000 physical penetration and another 500 stamina is going to be better than 193 weapon damage.

It'd be pretty nice to have a easier to acquire jewelry set than Agility that does more.

kadar

phreatophile wrote: »

Thanks for being the go to resource for getting the most out of a Stamina Nightblade.


It'd be pretty nice to have a easier to acquire jewelry set than Agility that does more.

Interesting idea. Then again, Agility is pretty flippin' easy to acquire right now. Farm up sets of 60 trophies faster than you can farm a full set of Spriggan, for sure.

phreatophile

The_Outsider wrote: »

Then again, Agility is pretty flippin' easy to acquire right now. Farm up sets of 60 trophies faster than you can farm a full set of Spriggan, for sure.

What is the RNG like now for Agility jewelry from vaults? Is it a guaranteed drop or are there many other things you might get instead besides the Arcane and Healthy traits?

Jewelry drops like candy from dolmens now, purple might take a few hours.

With 100% drop rate for jewelry from Dolmens: 3 sets X 3 traits X 3 quality levels, the chances are 1 in 27 of getting a purple robust piece, those are probably the best RNG odds in the game.

EDIT: Not sure what I was thinking above since the drop on Purple is much lower, overly optimistic I guess, but in two hours of farming I got a purple rubust ring and a precise dagger (Old tower quest reward).

The Daggers might take a bit longer, might get lucky with a guild store. Don't have to get that lucky since the daggers can drop in any old quality but might drop with less than desirable traits.

kadar

phreatophile wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Then again, Agility is pretty flippin' easy to acquire right now. Farm up sets of 60 trophies faster than you can farm a full set of Spriggan, for sure.

What is the RNG like now for Agility jewelry from vaults? Is it a guaranteed drop or are there many other things you might get instead besides the Arcane and Healthy traits?

Jewelry drops like candy from dolmens now, purple might take a few hours.

With 100% drop rate for jewelry from Dolmens: 3 sets X 3 traits X 3 quality levels, the chances are 1 in 27 of getting a purple robust piece, those are probably the best RNG odds in the game.

The Daggers might take a bit longer, might get lucky with a guild store. Don't have to get that lucky since the daggers can drop in any old quality but might drop with less than desirable traits.

Sure, there's the old RNG. I just meant that because you can use all trophies (which are easily farmed) on the Vault of your preference, it's going to be a lot easier to get. Agility prices are continuing to tank (down to 30-40k for robust ring). For instance, if you need a robust neck, the Claw chest has a chance to drop only the neck (3 traits) and different weapons.

I farmed a set of Fiord the other day, about 3 hours in total running between Dolmens and didn't get a single purple ring/neck. RNG any way you swing it.

bantycakes

@Gilliamtherogue, thanks for this very in-depth guide.

My question is: what's the optimal setup for someone trying to complete vMA to finally get their Maelstrom weapons?

If it helps any, I'm a Khajiit with 64 points in Stamina and I'm less than ~50 CP from cap.

Gilliamtherogue

bantycakes wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue, thanks for this very in-depth guide.

My question is: what's the optimal setup for someone trying to complete vMA to finally get their Maelstrom weapons?

If it helps any, I'm a Khajiit with 64 points in Stamina and I'm less than ~50 CP from cap.

5 VO 5 Nightmother's and 2 Velidreth is the optimal setup for sustain and burst in vMA, although you might want to put some points into health if you are fairly new to vMA. Bars are the old setup of
DW; Nado, Trap Beast, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, Vigor, Soul Harvest
Bow; Relentless, Injection, Arrow barrage, Caltrops (or Mirage if you can't manage the resource drain), Siphoning Attacks, and flex ulti based on round.

Remember that swapping abilities out in between different rounds and arenas is key, be versatile and find what works for you.

OtisMiller

Love this build! Thanks for putting this together. Question: With 1T having launched, how much has changed with this build?

gard

I've found that putting relentless on the dw bar gained me some few k dps. It's very quick to fire the spectral bow without switching and to keep relentless up. i think I swapped killer's blade to the bow bar.

gard

Weapon glyphs - which is better: glyph of weapon damage which boost weapon damage for 5 seconds? Or one of the others that does more damage but doesn't last 5 seconds?

Gilliamtherogue

gard wrote: »

Weapon glyphs - which is better: glyph of weapon damage which boost weapon damage for 5 seconds? Or one of the others that does more damage but doesn't last 5 seconds?

Ideally if you are not using Maelstrom Daggers you will use Berserker (Gain 348 WD for 5s, on a 10s ICD) on your main hand, and then Poison Damage on your off hand (4-6s ICD, can't remember off the top of my head)

gard wrote: »

I've found that putting relentless on the dw bar gained me some few k dps. It's very quick to fire the spectral bow without switching and to keep relentless up. i think I swapped killer's blade to the bow bar.

I've actually done this as well, and have reflected it on Detlia's Website, but I haven't updated on the forums yet.

Gilliamtherogue

OtisMiller wrote: »

Love this build! Thanks for putting this together. Question: With 1T having launched, how much has changed with this build?

Just updated this guide, I keep forgetting to make sure to keep up this one, since I actually maintain most of my builds on Deltia's website now.

Chinny

Thanks for updating the guide!

Quick Question: You still like Skoria/Mephala over Kra'gh?

Gilliamtherogue

Chinny wrote: »

Thanks for updating the guide!

Quick Question: You still like Skoria/Mephala over Kra'gh?

@Chinny Velidreth for AoE, Kragh's for sustained Single, Mephala for the Sunder build, and Skoria if you need health + some damage. I forgot to update that section, great catch

Mordenkainen

Possibily endangering myself here for some really awkward replies but oh well. I won't know unless I ask.

I've read through the OPs post and I was frankly astonished at the sheer amount of detail that was put into it. Very amazing to say the least.

I do not have any Maelstrom Weapon however and my chances of getting there are rather slim as it is currently. I aim to step back from Magicka and turn to Stamina though and my question is, in what way could I possibly get this to work with a Two-handed weapon?

I know dual wield is propably utterly superior in comparison and fact but I'd really like to try and see where I can get to in terms of viability with a two-handed weapon.

Gilliamtherogue

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Possibily endangering myself here for some really awkward replies but oh well. I won't know unless I ask.

I've read through the OPs post and I was frankly astonished at the sheer amount of detail that was put into it. Very amazing to say the least.

I do not have any Maelstrom Weapon however and my chances of getting there are rather slim as it is currently. I aim to step back from Magicka and turn to Stamina though and my question is, in what way could I possibly get this to work with a Two-handed weapon?

I know dual wield is propably utterly superior in comparison and fact but I'd really like to try and see where I can get to in terms of viability with a two-handed weapon.

@Mordenkainen
The only real builds that work with 2h are PvP builds or Bow/2h builds that use the 2h as a buff/execute bar. The issue with dropping DW is you lose so much AoE potential from Steel Tornado that it really hinders the options. Ideally you'd use Bow with your primary weapon and use Snipe + Acid Spray + Injection + Barrage, but you'll have almost no barspace with that, and you'll have to slot an Assassination ability to ensure passives are up, pretty much locking all utility off into your 2h bar.

kadar

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Possibily endangering myself here for some really awkward replies but oh well. I won't know unless I ask.

I've read through the OPs post and I was frankly astonished at the sheer amount of detail that was put into it. Very amazing to say the least.

I do not have any Maelstrom Weapon however and my chances of getting there are rather slim as it is currently. I aim to step back from Magicka and turn to Stamina though and my question is, in what way could I possibly get this to work with a Two-handed weapon?

I know dual wield is propably utterly superior in comparison and fact but I'd really like to try and see where I can get to in terms of viability with a two-handed weapon.

IMO, you can do quite well with 2H/Bow. Ofc it depends on the content you are running.

I still use a 2H/Bow setup for vMA even after getting BiS daggers for the superior burst of Surprise Attack, Fracture, self-buffs, and the superior healing I get from Rally. This also eliminates the need to chug potions for my damage buffs and allows me to save them as an emergency button. I can get a 25-30k DPS while Soloing a WB with my vMA build (while also healing myself).

EDIT: Ofc Gilliam comments 3 seconds before me.

The only real builds that work with 2h are PvP builds or Bow/2h builds that use the 2h as a buff/execute bar. The issue with dropping DW is you lose so much AoE potential from Steel Tornado that it really hinders the options. Ideally you'd use Bow with your primary weapon and use Snipe + Acid Spray + Injection + Barrage, but you'll have almost no barspace with that, and you'll have to slot an Assassination ability to ensure passives are up, pretty much locking all utility off into your 2h bar.

In a trial/vDungeon scenario, I wonder if you could get away with Caltrops + Hail + Acid Spray + Reverse Slice for AOE? That should leave space for the rest of the abilities you'd need. Obviously not as powerful as 'Nado, but he might "get this to work."

Mordenkainen

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Possibily endangering myself here for some really awkward replies but oh well. I won't know unless I ask.

I've read through the OPs post and I was frankly astonished at the sheer amount of detail that was put into it. Very amazing to say the least.

I do not have any Maelstrom Weapon however and my chances of getting there are rather slim as it is currently. I aim to step back from Magicka and turn to Stamina though and my question is, in what way could I possibly get this to work with a Two-handed weapon?

I know dual wield is propably utterly superior in comparison and fact but I'd really like to try and see where I can get to in terms of viability with a two-handed weapon.

@Mordenkainen
The only real builds that work with 2h are PvP builds or Bow/2h builds that use the 2h as a buff/execute bar. The issue with dropping DW is you lose so much AoE potential from Steel Tornado that it really hinders the options. Ideally you'd use Bow with your primary weapon and use Snipe + Acid Spray + Injection + Barrage, but you'll have almost no barspace with that, and you'll have to slot an Assassination ability to ensure passives are up, pretty much locking all utility off into your 2h bar.

The_Outsider wrote: »

Mordenkainen wrote: »

Possibily endangering myself here for some really awkward replies but oh well. I won't know unless I ask.

I've read through the OPs post and I was frankly astonished at the sheer amount of detail that was put into it. Very amazing to say the least.

I do not have any Maelstrom Weapon however and my chances of getting there are rather slim as it is currently. I aim to step back from Magicka and turn to Stamina though and my question is, in what way could I possibly get this to work with a Two-handed weapon?

I know dual wield is propably utterly superior in comparison and fact but I'd really like to try and see where I can get to in terms of viability with a two-handed weapon.

IMO, you can do quite well with 2H/Bow. Ofc it depends on the content you are running.

I still use a 2H/Bow setup for vMA even after getting BiS daggers for the superior burst of Surprise Attack, Fracture, self-buffs, and the superior healing I get from Rally. This also eliminates the need to chug potions for my damage buffs and allows me to save them as an emergency button. I can get a 25-30k DPS while Soloing a WB with my vMA build (while also healing myself).

EDIT: Ofc Gilliam comments 3 seconds before me.

The only real builds that work with 2h are PvP builds or Bow/2h builds that use the 2h as a buff/execute bar. The issue with dropping DW is you lose so much AoE potential from Steel Tornado that it really hinders the options. Ideally you'd use Bow with your primary weapon and use Snipe + Acid Spray + Injection + Barrage, but you'll have almost no barspace with that, and you'll have to slot an Assassination ability to ensure passives are up, pretty much locking all utility off into your 2h bar.

In a trial/vDungeon scenario, I wonder if you could get away with Caltrops + Hail + Acid Spray + Reverse Slice for AOE? That should leave space for the rest of the abilities you'd need. Obviously not as powerful as 'Nado, but he might "get this to work."

First, thank you two for the replies and second please excuse my terrible quoting skills.

Judging by what @The_Outsider said it can be viable, kind of, but when I watched the video of the VMSA run, that 60k dps spike that one boss got outright destroyed by made my jaw drop. I can see the issue with the buff management with a two-handed weapon though as pointed out by @Gilliamtherogue so I think I'll just play a bit around with dual wield and twohanded and see whats what and where I get to.

I would like to know only one thing though, when dual wield, (Maestrom Weapons excluded) is daggers a MUST or are swords just as fine? Here's wondering how the difference would be between the crit bonus with daggers and the flat damage bonus for swords. If it is a flat damage bonus even.

And my aim regarding content is definitely trials and eventually VMSA, I am simply hoping or trying to somehow at least get my favourite preference somehow into it without rendering myself into a drag for my group.