Vet Dungeons Toxic Experience for players

SirknightMMB

I have started to grind vet dungeons on my Sorc Healer and time after time am kicked instantly for not being a Templar. This in itself should say enough that we need mechanics in place to now allow this type of experience for players. It is horrid in a game where any class can be anything to be instantly removed from play for not being this spec in this way with this class. Its toxic and just plain unfun.

Reverb

Sorc healers were much more viable for vet content before the nerf to stam regen while blocking. They were still less desirable than Templars because they lack burst heals for those "oh s##t" moments, but there were decent builds for them, and some sorc healers were damn impressive.

Now healing is about aiding resource management as much as it is healing. Shards and Repentance or gtfo.

LadyNalcarya

When I'm tanking pledges I dont care if my healer is not templar, I dont need shards. Though it might be problematic if the group consists of stamina dds.
The only problem with sorc healers is that often they're not "healers", just dds that equipped resto staff to get a group faster and have no idea how to heal. And even if its not the case, randoms might be biased.

Taryf

As Tank i dont care about healer class... as long that he/she heals...
YES, im talking to You werewolf "helaer"....

Decayed_Inside

They want you to be a templar so you can throw shards to the tank and refill his stamina.

Shadowolfs

Some vet dungeons are super difficult to have sorc as healer such as vCoA, vWGT and vICP.

Ourorboros

I'm a Sorc, I run dungeons, I have a bar with Restro heals. My experience is that dungeons are either pretty easy, or tough/crazy Fn tough. Not really a middle ground. In the easy dungeons, a good group can burn everything down without needing a healer. In the tough category, however, there is not much margin for error. I would never attempt to run as a primary healer on my Sorc. Restro staffs are good for self-heals and as a back-up healer, but not Primary healer in the tough dungeons. Maybe OP does a really good job, and to be fair, should at least be given a few fights before being kicked. On the other hand, I tried my hand at Sorc healing in vFungal and could not keep the group alive through the second boss. They asked me to leave, and I knew they were right.

I also run a Templar and have completed some of the tougher dungeons as a healer. World of difference in abilities. OP has a point about not getting a fair shake, but on the other hand, lots of players know what the Restro Staff can and cannot do. Leave the serious healing to the Templars, or make one of your own if you want to be a healer.

SirknightMMB

But in a game where every class should be able to do anything as it was designed. One should not be forced into a certain class to complete and vet dungeon. This is one of my biggest griefs as i want specifically to run a sorc as a healer.

SirknightMMB

Sorry for double post but in groups in not instant kicked i rarely if ever have troubles keeping people alive. Most troubles i have are other people not learning mechanics before coming in and instantly dying. I cannot prevent one shots XD.

lolo_01b16_ESO

SirknightMMB wrote: »

But in a game where every class should be able to do anything as it was designed. One should not be forced into a certain class to complete and vet dungeon. This is one of my biggest griefs as i want specifically to run a sorc as a healer.

I recommend finding some friends or a guild to do dungeons with. If people know that you're good, they won't care too much about your class.
If you join a random group as sorc healer it's basicly saying "Hey, I want to play how I want, so please adjust to it". And then some people will adjust too it and others will kick you to be able to play like they want.

SirknightMMB

People kicking someone or even feeling the need to kick someone because they are a class playing a specific role is wrong. Ive seen awesome NB Tanks and Sorc Tanks, class should never be a factor in this game based on its very design.

maxetro

I'm a terrible player who cant do more than 12k dps with any gear, but i was able to heal on my sorc through all vr16 vet dungeons except Imperial City Prison, and didnt fail at once on my NB healer (she is only vr6 yet, but I never failed pug GF daily run because of lack of heal). And I never been kicked from the group because i'm not a templar. I think your problem is just a bad luck.

SirknightMMB

Must be terrible because i have been kicked from 5 prison groups today with either "Sorry templar only" or just nothing and im kicked.

Decayed_Inside

Hows a sorc supposed to heal vICP? What i stand in the little circle while 200 ads get enraged and mow me down? That or you pop a healing ward and one dude lives while the rest of us die.

Kupoking

I would say get into a pve guild and start running groups with steady people. When you group with people be honnest with them that you want to go ahead and beat dungeons on your sorc healer. Be nice to people and speak with group mates. The most friendliest add them to your friendlist and wisper them so you grp with them often.

Dont use grping tool. People are just *** horrible in there, plus most of them seems to be moronic as they seem to 'kick' class/roles combination they dont like. Plus its the worst way to get a good social experience in this game.

Magdalina

Ourorboros wrote: »

I'm a Sorc, I run dungeons, I have a bar with Restro heals. My experience is that dungeons are either pretty easy, or tough/crazy Fn tough. Not really a middle ground. In the easy dungeons, a good group can burn everything down without needing a healer. In the tough category, however, there is not much margin for error. I would never attempt to run as a primary healer on my Sorc. Restro staffs are good for self-heals and as a back-up healer, but not Primary healer in the tough dungeons. Maybe OP does a really good job, and to be fair, should at least be given a few fights before being kicked. On the other hand, I tried my hand at Sorc healing in vFungal and could not keep the group alive through the second boss. They asked me to leave, and I knew they were right.

I also run a Templar and have completed some of the tougher dungeons as a healer. World of difference in abilities. OP has a point about not getting a fair shake, but on the other hand, lots of players know what the Restro Staff can and cannot do. Leave the serious healing to the Templars, or make one of your own if you want to be a healer.

o.O If Resto staff heals were not enough on that boss, someone was doing something wrong. The only mechanic that really hurts there is Misery(the purple lightning connecting two random people) but you can easily dodge it, and you should also get out of its reach ASAP or no heals will save you. It also helps if you kind of spread out all the time so in case you get Misery you aren't standing right next to the other person who has it. If people don't do that they'll die, period. Only difference a templar will make is give them a couple more seconds to get out of the lightning's range before they die because BoL. However, you really shouldn't be needing those seconds unless you're new to the dungeon/lagging/bug out.

Just saying.
I haven't been healing on my sorc for a while but I'd say resto staff skills are more than enough for any dungeon except ICP/WGT, where they may argueably be not enough unless the team is rather experienced with the mechanics. But then if team is really unexperienced with mechanics a templar healer might not save them either.
That said, alas sorcs have noting really going for heals right now, literally any other class has skills that'll help them do it better:/ I can understand the people wanting to do the role they like on the char they like though, here's hoping ZOS gives sorc healers some love some time soon, Eight knows they need it.

Ourorboros

Magdalina wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

I'm a Sorc, I run dungeons, I have a bar with Restro heals. My experience is that dungeons are either pretty easy, or tough/crazy Fn tough. Not really a middle ground. In the easy dungeons, a good group can burn everything down without needing a healer. In the tough category, however, there is not much margin for error. I would never attempt to run as a primary healer on my Sorc. Restro staffs are good for self-heals and as a back-up healer, but not Primary healer in the tough dungeons. Maybe OP does a really good job, and to be fair, should at least be given a few fights before being kicked. On the other hand, I tried my hand at Sorc healing in vFungal and could not keep the group alive through the second boss. They asked me to leave, and I knew they were right.

I also run a Templar and have completed some of the tougher dungeons as a healer. World of difference in abilities. OP has a point about not getting a fair shake, but on the other hand, lots of players know what the Restro Staff can and cannot do. Leave the serious healing to the Templars, or make one of your own if you want to be a healer.

o.O If Resto staff heals were not enough on that boss, someone was doing something wrong. The only mechanic that really hurts there is Misery(the purple lightning connecting two random people) but you can easily dodge it, and you should also get out of its reach ASAP or no heals will save you. It also helps if you kind of spread out all the time so in case you get Misery you aren't standing right next to the other person who has it. If people don't do that they'll die, period. Only difference a templar will make is give them a couple more seconds to get out of the lightning's range before they die because BoL. However, you really shouldn't be needing those seconds unless you're new to the dungeon/lagging/bug out.

I don't disagree with this. In fact, it was my first ever vet dungeon attempt, and my first attempt at healing. It's fair to say I was unprepared. It was a long time before I ventured back into that dungeon, better prepared as a DPS and with someone who knew the mechanics. But BOL has saved me more than once in runs, though in fairness a death here or there doesn't mean a wiped run.

code65536

SirknightMMB wrote: »

Must be terrible because i have been kicked from 5 prison groups today with either "Sorry templar only" or just nothing and im kicked.

Um, vICP is the hardest, most demanding of the 4-man dungeons, where there are many instances of bursty damage and where the final boss fight is very mobile. Yes, I've completed it with a non-Templar healer. But this was in a good group of people I know, where the healer's heals was being supplemented by the Funnel Health off-heals of two magicka nightblades and where every member was a magicka user who could Harness their way through all the spell damage in that dungeon while the HoTs ticked. Frankly, unless you have a specific group composition (off-heal support from a magblade, and each member having a fair degree of self-sufficiency), a sorc healer would not work well for vICP.

SirknightMMB wrote: »

But in a game where every class should be able to do anything as it was designed. One should not be forced into a certain class to complete and vet dungeon. This is one of my biggest griefs as i want specifically to run a sorc as a healer.

A sorc can heal. But you're also adding a layer of difficulty, not only for yourself, but for the rest of the group. This is fine for the nonvet dungeons and the easier vet dungeons--hell, my magicka DK would sometimes throw on a resto staff and heal pledges (including vet Fungal and vet Wayrest) if we couldn't round up a healer. But for content like vICP, it would be a struggle for the entire group, and it would make a difficult dungeon even harder than it already is.

Alcast

SirknightMMB wrote: »

I have started to grind vet dungeons on my Sorc Healer and time after time am kicked instantly for not being a Templar. This in itself should say enough that we need mechanics in place to now allow this type of experience for players. It is horrid in a game where any class can be anything to be instantly removed from play for not being this spec in this way with this class. Its toxic and just plain unfun.

All classes can heal, but people always have those sticks "presets" of classes in their brain which makes them think for example a Sorc can not heal or a templar can not dps.

Truth is you CAN do everything with every class...yet you have to find good people which is actually the biggest issue

PhantomSpaceCop

Alcast wrote: »

SirknightMMB wrote: »

I have started to grind vet dungeons on my Sorc Healer and time after time am kicked instantly for not being a Templar. This in itself should say enough that we need mechanics in place to now allow this type of experience for players. It is horrid in a game where any class can be anything to be instantly removed from play for not being this spec in this way with this class. Its toxic and just plain unfun.

All classes can heal, but people always have those sticks "presets" of classes in their brain which makes them think for example a Sorc can not heal or a templar can not dps.

Truth is you CAN do everything with every class...yet you have to find good people which is actually the biggest issue

This absolutely. And it's hard to find a good PUG in the grouping tool, by virtue of how random it is anyway. I can count the PUGs I've been in that were a dream to run with on my hand. The rest are made up of players who a) don't know what they're doing, b) think that classes dictate what playstyle should be, or c) both.

Pay attention to yourself, your teammates, the environment and just have some friggin' fun. It shouldn't be toxic or difficult.

Thelon

Wasn't nerfing the GroupDamage add-on supposed to fix this issue?

sadownik

Thelon wrote: »

Wasn't nerfing the GroupDamage add-on supposed to fix this issue?

Yup it also supposed to give everyone a puppy to soothe their rage.

wayfarerx

sadownik wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

Wasn't nerfing the GroupDamage add-on supposed to fix this issue?

Yup it also supposed to give everyone a puppy to soothe their rage.

You didn't get the puppy?

...

Where the **** did this puppy come from then?

eventide03b14a_ESO

Reverb wrote: »

Sorc healers were much more viable for vet content before the nerf to stam regen while blocking. They were still less desirable than Templars because they lack burst heals for those "oh s##t" moments, but there were decent builds for them, and some sorc healers were damn impressive.

Now healing is about aiding resource management as much as it is healing. Shards and Repentance or gtfo.

I agree that this is the mindset, but honestly sorcs can heal just as well as temps and we have our own methods. For instance our Healing Ward and Barrier tend to be much stronger than any Templar's because we usually run more Magicka and have Bastian maxed out. As long as we spam Healing Springs (which I can do for absolutely no cost at all) and keep Mutagen on people we can keep up with most Templars. Healing Ward is great for panic situations BTW, and as for resource management, I'm sorry to say that's on the tank. Are tanks really that incompetent these days that they need someone to give them stamina all the time? I'm sorry to say but that's really just a problem for crappy tank builds.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

Hows a sorc supposed to heal vICP? What i stand in the little circle while 200 ads get enraged and mow me down? That or you pop a healing ward and one dude lives while the rest of us die.

If you have 200 ads all enraged it's the DPS' fault not the healers. You need to stop blaming the healer and ask why your DPS can't burn them before they enrage.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Thelon wrote: »

Wasn't nerfing the GroupDamage add-on supposed to fix this issue?

This is about class bias and has nothing to do the group damage addon. The OP was being kicked before they even had a chance to prove themselves.

sadownik

wayfarerx wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

Wasn't nerfing the GroupDamage add-on supposed to fix this issue?

Yup it also supposed to give everyone a puppy to soothe their rage.

You didn't get the puppy?

...

Where the **** did this puppy come from then?

As you can clearly see my rage is all but gone - no puppt for this grumpy elder.

Shunravi

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Sorc healers were much more viable for vet content before the nerf to stam regen while blocking. They were still less desirable than Templars because they lack burst heals for those "oh s##t" moments, but there were decent builds for them, and some sorc healers were damn impressive.

Now healing is about aiding resource management as much as it is healing. Shards and Repentance or gtfo.

I agree that this is the mindset, but honestly sorcs can heal just as well as temps and we have our own methods. For instance our Healing Ward and Barrier tend to be much stronger than any Templar's because we usually run more Magicka and have Bastian maxed out. As long as we spam Healing Springs (which I can do for absolutely no cost at all) and keep Mutagen on people we can keep up with most Templars. Healing Ward is great for panic situations BTW, and as for resource management, I'm sorry to say that's on the tank. Are tanks really that incompetent these days that they need someone to give them stamina all the time? I'm sorry to say but that's really just a problem for crappy tank builds.

Yea, it is a problem for non min/ maxed fotm builds.

Nathano

The lack of burst healing in the game is a real disappointment as it makes only one healing class viable. Sure you can use a Sorc healer as long as the other group members avoid taking unnecessary damage, however if you get a bad group then a Sorc doesn't have the burst healing to save the day unlike a Templar. I would love to heal with other classes but every time I try they feel very weak because there is no burst.

Islyn

SirknightMMB wrote: »

But in a game where every class should be able to do anything as it was designed. One should not be forced into a certain class to complete and vet dungeon. This is one of my biggest griefs as i want specifically to run a sorc as a healer.

Except if one of those has 1/3 class skills dedicated to healing.
(I will say this every time I hear any special snowflake tell me how they with 3x dmg/shield trees shuld heal as well as one with a whole tree for healing.)

As a sorc, I have NO IDEA why you wanna waste the BEST DPS in PVE right now on heals omg. *cry*

Shaggygaming

SirknightMMB wrote: »

I have started to grind vet dungeons on my Sorc Healer and time after time am kicked instantly for not being a Templar. This in itself should say enough that we need mechanics in place to now allow this type of experience for players. It is horrid in a game where any class can be anything to be instantly removed from play for not being this spec in this way with this class. Its toxic and just plain unfun.

I completely agree with you; however, the game is currently designed that Templars make the easiest experience for the entire group. When I run my V16 Templar healer in vet dungeons I am not only healing but I am throwing tank shards, casting orbs for my magicka DPS, biting jabs when DPS is not standing in red, and using repentance to refill stamina bars after trash and boss fights.

I suggest you find a tank friend who can sustain himself or find a templar friend / random who will throw a shard for the tank. Another issue is that most Templar's are healers and finding a true DPS Templar may be difficult.