Official Discussion Thread for "ESO – The Year Ahead"

Niaver

Well... i'm really dissapointed. No justice system, no spellcrafting. Where is some information about arenas, new classes/skill lines?

Preyfar

I have to say I feel somewhat... underwhelmed. Then again, I don't know what I was expecting as it is.

AshTal

Nice to see a future plans post - hopefully we will keep getting them with more details.

I know we all have our priorities and they couldn't list everything people want to see but hopefully we will get more details on the elements that are being worked on.

jeskah

Damn, the spellcrafting drop was expected, but still, im dissapointed somehow.

nimander99

and will be working on much more in 2016, including a major change in how world zones treat player character levels.

This was the most important part to me. I hope this means that returning to older zones will now be beneficial i.e player scaling up or down and giving the entire game a more 'open world' Scrolls feeling.

Also thanks for the update on the plans for the year, you really answered pretty much all my questions

Enodoc

A shame about Justice PvP, but not a surprise I don't think. I'm hoping the PvE aspect of Enforcers (in which you are sent out to raid bandit dens) will still come to something further down the line though.

The character information window will be updated to show your level, plus your Champion Rating, which is the total number of Champion Points you have accrued.

I hope that's just for the player, and not something public-facing. One of the problems with VRs was the stigma created by "that guy's 13 VRs lower than me", and if the Champion Rating is on display the same thing will continue to happen. To other players, everyone should show Level 50 without their CPs. (It wouldn't be very informative to show them anyway, as you'd have no idea how many of them had been spent in which constellation.)

Something that I found quite interesting though:

[We] will be working on much more in 2016, including a major change in how world zones treat player character levels.

Anyone have any ideas what that could mean? (Did you see that, @Gidorick?)

EQBallzz

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.

Thank you, thank you, for finally officially killing that horrible idea. I love you.

In terms of the overall design direction of the game, it's very sad that they are canning the PvP part of the Justice System. All of the low hanging fruit complaints about the system that everyone gets so scared about (e.g. camping lowbies when they loot desks) are easily avoidable with smart design. Think about what such a system would represent: a constantly evolving and actually meaningful player experience, where your actions in the world matter. Making player actions matter in the shared space of an MMO world is an area where the game genre needs to innovate. With this system, as well as Spellcrafting and Housing, among others, ESO had a chance to start straddling the line between theme park and sandbox in a unique way, and also get an edge over upcoming MMOs that are building more sandboxy worlds and bringing the challenge back to MMO gaming.

To me, it seems like spellcrafting and PvP justice system are the remnants of pre-B2P design direction that prioritized player-driven, dynamic (as opposed to grindy, easily parsable, and monetized) gameplay. As such, it sounds like finishing them would be more work than they would stand to generate in revenue because, in the game's current economic model, 'short-term' transactions are valued more than 'long-term' subscriptions. On one hand, if they implemented these two big, combat-focused systems into the base game it would not generate any significant new revenue like DLCs do. On the other hand, if they somehow monetized them, it would likely condemn the game to pay-to-win status. Seems like a lose-lose for ZOS with either direction, though at least that would mean they still seem to be still avoiding the P2W abyss.

It was pretty much expected by many I think. Game goes B2P and then the focus shifts from quality and innovation to transactions and monetization. Content that was promised last year gets slowly released this year and in many cases in a diminished state. Exciting content that was supposed to be coming this year gets canned all-together. Lingering bugs, balance and performance issues go unfixed. Lacking MMO features remain missing. None of this is that surprising, really.

On the sort of bright side at least they finally did another Road Ahead but too bad it consisted mostly of rehashed info and bad news.

Don't worry though! I'm sure there will be new trinkets and doo-dads to purchase in the cash shop! Maybe more items to circumvent actual gameplay. Won't that be innovative?

Jaeysa

Question because I must have missed it - what is spellcrafting?

daemonios

davidtxr wrote: »

More stuff to make the game lag even more ! The end is nigh

Lag in PvP is server side. SCT and name players are client side. Can't see the connection...

MrPoolaty

I was really hoping the thieves guild was going to tie in with the 2nd half of the justice system. As it it's kind of lame. You just continue to rob the town's with little to no consequences. You can literally stand right next to a guard and rob the desk next to them....

@ZOS_RichLambert I would really and think the player base would love to know at least what was on the drawing board for the other part of the justice system. I think A LOT of people were waiting on this. So instead of just saying hey we axed it because WE didn't think we could make it work tell us why!

MissBizz

Once upon a time, not-so-long-ago, Gina mentioned the possibility of tabbed guild banks in ESO Live. Is this currently planned under that "guild improvements" umbrella mentioned?

Enodoc

Jaeysa wrote: »

Question because I must have missed it - what is spellcrafting?

@Jaeysa Spellcrafting was a system in development that would allow you to craft your own spells for use. The lead developer of the system left ZOS, and it has been on the backburner ever since. Details on how the system could have worked can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2xpn39/data_mining_spellcrafting_what_is_it_and_what_are/

Tyr

Enodoc wrote: »

A shame about Justice PvP, but not a surprise I don't think. I'm hoping the PvE aspect of Enforcers (in which you are sent out to raid bandit dens) will still come to something further down the line though.

The character information window will be updated to show your level, plus your Champion Rating, which is the total number of Champion Points you have accrued.

I hope that's just for the player, and not something public-facing. One of the problems with VRs was the stigma created by "that guy's 13 VRs lower than me", and if the Champion Rating is on display the same thing will continue to happen. To other players, everyone should show Level 50 without their CPs. (It wouldn't be very informative to show them anyway, as you'd have no idea how many of them had been spent in which constellation.)

Something that I found quite interesting though:

[We] will be working on much more in 2016, including a major change in how world zones treat player character levels.

Anyone have any ideas what that could mean? (Did you see that, @Gidorick?)

Maybe making all world zones scale player to their level like Orsinium and DLC zones. That way they make it a truly "open world' game like the single player series.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@Jayne_Doe - Yep! (edited my original reply to remove any confusion)

*snip* ignore me.

Slylok

Disappointed that spell crafting is still on hold. I hope they can work on it more after VRs are taken out and that dust settles.

master.harun_ESO

Will buff trackers be added for console?

MarrazzMist

Jaeysa wrote: »

Question because I must have missed it - what is spellcrafting?

It is a system where you can make your own spells. For example in TES IV Oblivion you choose components of spell (elemental damage type, distance, area of effect). The magica cost of the spell depends on the power of the spell.

All in all, I like the info. Smart decisions. Spell grafting would be fun, but it would easily make playing different classes meaningless or un-unicue.

Battles between outlaws and enforcers would be cool, but then where could you do your explorations and questing in peace, when the world is in flames all around you. Placing people into different shards wasn't good option earlier, doupt it would be now.

I'm curious how Cadwell's silver and gold zones will be like after change. Now it is pretty linear, I'm all for breaking that with more open world feeling.

Pepper8Jack

Sad to see the death of the justice system PvP concept, both me and my friends/guildies have been stoked ever since it was first talked about, but I do understand the problematic nature of the idea.

That said I do agree that PvPers would like to at least hear a tease of what's in store for them this year.

For now though, looks like I'll just keep leveling those alts....

Also couldn't help but notice a lack of mention regarding race changes, curious if that idea ever officially got shot down or if it is still a possibility in the future

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

A shame about Justice PvP, but not a surprise I don't think. I'm hoping the PvE aspect of Enforcers (in which you are sent out to raid bandit dens) will still come to something further down the line though.

The character information window will be updated to show your level, plus your Champion Rating, which is the total number of Champion Points you have accrued.

I hope that's just for the player, and not something public-facing. One of the problems with VRs was the stigma created by "that guy's 13 VRs lower than me", and if the Champion Rating is on display the same thing will continue to happen. To other players, everyone should show Level 50 without their CPs. (It wouldn't be very informative to show them anyway, as you'd have no idea how many of them had been spent in which constellation.)

Something that I found quite interesting though:

[We] will be working on much more in 2016, including a major change in how world zones treat player character levels.

Anyone have any ideas what that could mean? (Did you see that, @Gidorick?)

Woo! Thanks for pointing that out @Enodoc ! Hopefully it's a leveling down mechanic.

Once upon a time I had a concept where each zone had its own set of levels and each player would level through that zone's levels and the xp earned would add to their overall level. If a player's overall level was under or over the zone's level range they could battle level up or down to be viable in that level. it was a really convoluted way to deal with leveling but it wasn't just "ok, now you're this level" it was a battle leveling WITH progression.

Just having a scale down option would be great! I've been "cleaning up" some old zones and man... not getting XP or drops for mobs is a real drag.

Links to my concepts for those interested:
Downward Scaling
Cadwell's Redux (with scaling zone levels)

Dominoid

Jaeysa wrote: »

Question because I must have missed it - what is spellcrafting?

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2xpn39/data_mining_spellcrafting_what_is_it_and_what_are/

nimander99

Enodoc wrote: »

Something that I found quite interesting though:

[We] will be working on much more in 2016, including a major change in how world zones treat player character levels.

Anyone have any ideas what that could mean? (Did you see that, @Gidorick?)

I know I'm not Gid but I'm thinking it's exactly what you are thinking it is. A scaling to zone system that allows us to return to the old zones and get value out of them.

*crosses fingers*

SorataArisugawa

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.

Thank you, thank you, for finally officially killing that horrible idea. I love you.

[...]
To me, it seems like spellcrafting and PvP justice system are the remnants of pre-B2P design direction that prioritized player-driven, dynamic (as opposed to grindy, easily parsable, and monetized) gameplay. As such, it sounds like finishing them would be more work than they would stand to generate in revenue because, in the game's current economic model, 'short-term' transactions are valued more than 'long-term' subscriptions. On one hand, if they implemented these two big, combat-focused systems into the base game it would not generate any significant new revenue like DLCs do. On the other hand, if they somehow monetized them, it would likely condemn the game to pay-to-win status. Seems like a lose-lose for ZOS with either direction, though at least that would mean they still seem to be still avoiding the P2W abyss.

Well I can't tell how disappointed I am with this decision. That is a very short-sighted approach.

It is so sad. I hoped you guys from Zenimax are different, but you makeing the same mistakes as all the other companys with their F2P/B2P game.

If doesn't evolve the coregame you will lose in the end.
Spellcrafting and justice PVP was a great idea of doing so.

So so sad

Faulgor

nimander99 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Something that I found quite interesting though:

[We] will be working on much more in 2016, including a major change in how world zones treat player character levels.

Anyone have any ideas what that could mean? (Did you see that, @Gidorick?)

I know I'm not Gid but I'm thinking it's exactly what you are thinking it is. A scaling to zone system that allows us to return to the old zones and get value out of them.

*crosses fingers*

If that were true I'd never leave Stonefalls again.

Jayne_Doe

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

A shame about Justice PvP, but not a surprise I don't think. I'm hoping the PvE aspect of Enforcers (in which you are sent out to raid bandit dens) will still come to something further down the line though.

The character information window will be updated to show your level, plus your Champion Rating, which is the total number of Champion Points you have accrued.

I hope that's just for the player, and not something public-facing. One of the problems with VRs was the stigma created by "that guy's 13 VRs lower than me", and if the Champion Rating is on display the same thing will continue to happen. To other players, everyone should show Level 50 without their CPs. (It wouldn't be very informative to show them anyway, as you'd have no idea how many of them had been spent in which constellation.)

Something that I found quite interesting though:

[We] will be working on much more in 2016, including a major change in how world zones treat player character levels.

Anyone have any ideas what that could mean? (Did you see that, @Gidorick?)

Woo! Thanks for pointing that out @Enodoc ! Hopefully it's a leveling down mechanic.

Once upon a time I had a concept where each zone had its own set of levels and each player would level through that zone's levels and the xp earned would add to their overall level. If a player's overall level was under or over the zone's level range they could battle level up or down to be viable in that level. it was a really convoluted way to deal with leveling but it wasn't just "ok, now you're this level" it was a battle leveling WITH progression.

Just having a scale down option would be great! I've been "cleaning up" some old zones and man... not getting XP or drops for mobs is a real drag.

Links to my concepts for those interested:
Downward Scaling
Cadwell's Redux (with scaling zone levels)

I'm working on alts that are always outleveling the zones they're in. I'm a completionist, so I like to do all quests, world bosses, dungeons, skyshards, etc. before I leave the zone. That, and doing dailies gets me too far ahead of the zones.

TheBull

Garbage.


What happened to all the new skill lines you said you'd be adding Matt? I'm tired of passives, and no 1 skill in the TG update is not going to do it. We need more meaningful character customization. Skill lines would bring just that.

I've been one of the games biggest fans the last two year. You are losing me though.

altemriel

awesome!!

Gidorick

Faulgor wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Something that I found quite interesting though:

[We] will be working on much more in 2016, including a major change in how world zones treat player character levels.

Anyone have any ideas what that could mean? (Did you see that, @Gidorick?)

I know I'm not Gid but I'm thinking it's exactly what you are thinking it is. A scaling to zone system that allows us to return to the old zones and get value out of them.

*crosses fingers*

If that were true I'd never leave Stonefalls again.

And I don't see why that would be a bad thing. Every couple months you'd travel to a new zone to complete quests there and then return "home".

OtarTheMad

Doesn't look like ZOS will get to answer my question I posted on another page but I will just say this:

Not releasing spellcrafting is, in my opinion, a huge mistake. It would have given the game an Elder Scrolls feel to it and bring some diversity it truly needs. I hope that even if they do not release spellcrafting they take those spells that were supposed to be in it and give them to future skill lines like: TG, DB, College of Winterhold (if put into the game) and more.

Tallowby

Justice System News is really disheartening....

With the initial release of the justice system I was pumped as many were that the game would get more dynamic instead it becomes more lack luster with the promise yanked from beneath our feet.

As it stands now there are people running freely with bounties in the millions who even come here and complain that they can't turn in a quest because of such and your reply is "You can't? we will get right on a fix for that"

Just remove the legal system and go back to how the game was at launch or grow a pair and implement some of what you have promised!

I have played this since Beta and all I can say is this change is a potential pivot point for me.

Very disappointed with the flip flop on the legal system

ThePonzzz

Sad to read no spellcrafting or better handling of VR removal. Quarterly DLC seems fine, but funneling big updates like Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood into them seem to be where a lot of people are disappointed. Justice system being left in the current state also seem to be pretty poor.

The Year Ahead announce reads more like something that was forced on posting rather than "we're excited to bring you..." Which trust me, I know that feeling on the staff side.