Gap closer root is increasingly becoming the last straw for me. Can't see a reason to continue.

Cathexis

PLEASE NOTE: I am not talking about the standard gap closing extra effects. I am talking about the 1 second unbreakable, immune immune root that was recently stealth hotfixed into the game for all gap closer abilities.

This is just another zerg tool designed to make it even harder to 1vX.

I have generally supported a lot of design changes, many of which many people felt were bad designs. But this one is just really bad. I'm even using maneuvers and immovable it is impossible to change positions in a battle where you are outnumbered now - you just get drilled by like 10 people and thats it.

It's boring and it is not fun. It completely diminishes the need for and use of actual skill in PvP.

It's just another change that favours large groups, and its just another nail in the coffin for PvP and for me. I almost quit after yesterday, and after playing tonight again, I can't see why I would continue to play with the current state of PvP favouring groups so heavily. With the root it is impossible to engage groups with lesser numbers unless you blatantly outperform them in build or stats. Now I know I might be biased; running a stamina sorcerer requires using high mobility to survive - this root is making mobility based survival impossible. Some may say "well you shouldn't be running" but thats not how sorcerers work. I run a very tanky build. I do stay and fight, but I'm not a dk or a temp - sorcs dont have the capacity to stand in a hailstorm of players. Moving around is a critical component, even running a heavy tank build in pvp. I might give it a few more days, but unless this change goes, I think this game is over for me.

Edit; After giving it another night I've come to the same conclusion which is that it simply isn't worth playing this game anymore with the current state of pvp and this new gap closer debuff. It is basically easy mode, and completely ruins what was left of any fun dynamic between players in pvp.

(No trolls you can't have my stuff.)

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

From this point forward I will be editing my replies into my original post for everyone I reply to.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn I agree with you entirely, it is fixing something that isn't broken. At all.

@Tonnopesceb16_ESO Why though, prior to these changes I was 1vZerging all the time, it is an incredible fun play style. No that does not mean I am running into an entire army and killing them. What it means is being able to skirt the zerg and pick off stragglers, seige users, etc. Very rarely can you actually pick a zerg appart solo to such an extent that you can defeat the entire group - and in that situation you are almost always being assisted by pugs. Prior to these changes, it was possible, but now the second I charge into a group, all they have to do is gap close and suddenly I go from offensive status to emergency evac. But look at it from the flip side, the zerg already has far superior numbers, damage, healing, and coordination of skills. Why are we giving the zerg more advantages when there is already such an extremely superior benefit to running in numbers.

@Malmai I have to strongly disagree with you in this case. I have been tolerating the lag for two years. Nothing has made me more disheartened to play my main character than this gap closer root change.

@Wing until this change I had no problem with zergs I love to play solo I'm still not having problems with zergs - the gap closing root just makes them impossible to engage on your own anymore. The situations you describe, while they may be annoying situations to encounter, are players exercising skills which allow them to evade attacks. As such, those skills should allow them to avoid being attacked.

Being able to root someone down with a gap closer because they have strategies to avoid your attacks completely guts combat dynamics. It once again deminishes combat to "who can hit who the hardest, who can hit who first" and completely eliminates any need for class roles or build diversity.

@Cinnamon_Spider Exactly. It is really stupid, "oh someone is charging at me, so I should stand still and not move while 10 people hit me at once." If players are that bad that they can't handle hitting a target and they need everyone who gets gap closed to be rooted down, I don't want to play this game anymore because it is lame.

@MikeB Explain to me how it is balanced that one player can be perma-rooted to the ground with an unbreakable root while getting gang beaten on by 10+ players. That isn't balanced at all, the solo player has absolutely 0% chance of survival. BEING IN A GROUP =/= GOD MODE, NOR IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE STANCE TO TAKE ON BALANCE. This isn't just about "taking on the zerg" man. If you actually go out and fight in cyrodiil you will find that basically any match where you are outnumbered even by a ratio of one extra player is basically a loss for the team with lower numbers between evenly matched players. Why even bother fighting at all when the outcome is fixed??

@Artjuh90 This has nothing to do with "building the game around small scale." It is a poorly designed mechanic plain and simple. It basically ensures that in a 1v10 or 9v10 situation the 1 or 9 always dies. Period. There is no chance to resist AT ALL. All the 10 has to do is continually gap closer spam. Thats it - there is no dynamic combat or any use of tactics.

@Artjuh90 @CrowsDescend this is the problem with the game at present, everything caters to the zerg. Standing in a group in this game right now is basically typing in the god mode cheat. It is dumb. Smaller groups and solo players SHOULD have a chance to take on larger groups! Being in a larger group shouldnt just make you able to flatten everything in your path.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

The strangest thing about this change is that NO ONE ASKED FOR IT.

• Where were all the threads complaining about missing gap closers?
• Where were the patch notes that documented this change.

This was an unwanted, uncalled for, and totally unreported ninja change.

Ninja nerfs really hurt the morale of the community. They make it seem like ZOS doesn't care enough about what we think to even notify us when a huge game changing mechanic is added.

This is an example of fixing things that aren't broken. There is plenty that actually is broken that should have been addressed instead.

Tonnopesce

Quick solution? CHANGE CAMPAIGN!
Usually zergs are organized differently tru the campaigns and not everyone use the same tactics, you cant pretend to 1vZerg and is right that you can't.

I'm more concerned to see the dead recap and having "elemental rings,whirlwind,sap essence" and other AOE that hit like a truck.

Malmai

The real enemy is the lag.

Wing

I here about this a lot and I have lived in azuras full time over the past while to take a break from PvE and the only time I see people actually spam gap closers is when its required to get the kill (sorc bolting away, dodge rolling, some youtuber trying to get leet clips so a combination of dodge rolling spaz jumping fast movement rock hiding etc.)

In those cases, yeah its required. I have specifically done it once to a particular player myself because they were annoying the crap out of me and I KNEW it would annoy them. when people spaz all over the place, dodge roll, lag, or bolt escape, normal skills DONT HIT. try to land an uppercut / surprise attack / jabs / etc. on one of those people.

the only gap closer that can be used point blank is ambush, and that should have a minimum range I agree, but if you get hit with any other (that all have a minimum range requirement) they are using it correctly.

as for zergs. . .yeah they don't ambush, they blob and cast smart heals / steel tornado / bat swarm / proxy det.

if you want tips on zergs ask Daniel or go play DC.

Cinnamon_Spider

What's stupid is that they added this in on top of nerfs to roll dodge, shields, and bolt escape. And while you're being gap closed by one or more people, you can't do anything but stand there until they connect.

RoxyPhoenix

its like: "wth.. why am I not moving ?! Ahh..they gapclosed me, ok.. time for a quick drink"

MikeB

People that complain that they can't take on groups of people baffle me. Its called balance, get used to it.

FriedEggSandwich

MikeB wrote: »

People that complain that they can't take on groups of people baffle me. Its called balance, get used to it.

There's a difference between not being able to deal with incoming damage from multiple players, and not being able to do anything whatsoever because multiple players are ambush spamming you. No one is asking to be able to sponge up the incoming damage, they just want a fighting chance at repositioning, returning damage, popping a potion, escaping, whatever. Rather than just being frozen to the spot despite cc immunity with the only option being to accept death without putting up a fight. Fact is some players are more skilled than others, through practice or whatever, and multiple mini-stuns negate any skill the defending player might have.

Jura23

One of the reasons why mist form is such a joke - because half the time you spend gap close rooted.

Tower_Of_Shame

Keep calm Wrobel boy will change it to 70-90% snare, cause in his mind that will fix the problem. but if you think about it with that amount of snare you still will be stucked in one position especially if NB uses lotus fan which adds snare and I guess the 2 of this stuff will stack so yeah have fun sitting in perma snare

willymchilybily

MikeB wrote: »

People that complain that they can't take on groups of people baffle me. Its called balance, get used to it.

If the game mechanic is largest team wins, skill and tactics is not a requirement, in my opinion this is not a balance. Also the op is on about picking on the stragglers of a large group and pulling them away from the hoard not to go 1v10

Agree with @Cathexis in the situation described being unable to escape is horrible. I particularly hate that gap closers are used by stam users. Try to CC them and they can CC break free for days. and they gain a sprint speed boost from medium armor and have more stamina to sprint with. all culminates to make the mechanic very powerful

This is a particular nuisance on my magicka characters when coupled with the change to mist form being target-able which just exacerbates it. Guess ill just have to farm some blue entoloma for speed and invisiblity pots. The ability to cloak/not be targeted for a short time is the only way to guarantee escape

Molag_Crow

Completely agree. Gap-closers need a look at, because on one hand, I understand that they slightly help keep consistent damage on a target who is moving, but on the other hand, it's abused by classes that can continuously gap-close, without much penalty towards their resource costs, etc.

Jura23 wrote: »

One of the reasons why mist form is such a joke - because half the time you spend gap close rooted.

As presented in this short video, where I use Retreating Maneuvers and Mist Form, yet you'll notice that the group can continuously gap-close me through Mist Form and Retreating Maneuvers. Despite what the tooltips state about CC in general; a gap-closer is a mini-stun, and it ignores CC Immunity, it's still effective (and annoying as ever.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY-exbyjme0

Artjuh90

Cathexis wrote: »

This is just another zerg tool designed to make it even harder to 1vX.

I have generally supported a lot of design changes, many of which many people felt were bad designs. But this one is just really bad. I'm even using maneuvers and immovable it is impossible to change positions in a battle where you are outnumbered now - you just get drilled by like 10 people and thats it.

It's boring and it is not fun. It completely deminishes the need for and use of actual skill in PvP.

It's just another change that favours large groups, and its just another nail in the coffin for PvP and for me. I almost quit after yesterday, and after playing tonight again, I can't see why I would continue to play with the current state of PvP favouring groups so heavily. With the root it is impossible to engage groups with lesser numbers unless you blatantly outperform them in build or stats. Now I know I might be biased; running a stamina sorcerer requires using high mobility to survive - this root is making mobility based survival impossible. Some may say "well you shouldn't be running" but thats not how sorcerers work. I run a very tanky build. I do stay and fight, but I'm not a dk or a temp - sorcs dont have the capacity to stand in a hailstorm of players. Moving around is a critical component, even running a heavy tank build in pvp. I might give it a few more days, but unless this change goes, I think this game is over for me.

(No trolls you can't have my stuff.)

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

From this point forward I will be editing my replies into my original post for everyone I reply to.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn I agree with you entirely, it is fixing something that isn't broken. At all.

@Tonnopesceb16_ESO Why though, prior to these changes I was 1vZerging all the time, it is an incredible fun play style. No that does not mean I am running into an entire army and killing them. What it means is being able to skirt the zerg and pick off stragglers, seige users, etc. Very rarely can you actually pick a zerg appart solo to such an extent that you can defeat the entire group - and in that situation you are almost always being assisted by pugs. Prior to these changes, it was possible, but now the second I charge into a group, all they have to do is gap close and suddenly I go from offensive status to emergency evac. But look at it from the flip side, the zerg already has far superior numbers, damage, healing, and coordination of skills. Why are we giving the zerg more advantages when there is already such an extremely superior benefit to running in numbers.

@Malmai I have to strongly disagree with you in this case. I have been tolerating the lag for two years. Nothing has made me more disheartened to play my main character than this gap closer root change.

@Wing until this change I had no problem with zergs I love to play solo I'm still not having problems with zergs - the gap closing root just makes them impossible to engage on your own anymore. The situations you describe, while they may be annoying situations to encounter, are players exercising skills which allow them to evade attacks. As such, those skills should allow them to avoid being attacked.

Being able to root someone down with a gap closer because they have strategies to avoid your attacks completely guts combat dynamics. It once again deminishes combat to "who can hit who the hardest, who can hit who first" and completely eliminates any need for class roles or build diversity.

@Cinnamon_Spider Exactly. It is really stupid, "oh someone is charging at me, so I should stand still and not move while 10 people hit me at once." If players are that bad that they can't handle hitting a target and they need everyone who gets gap closed to be rooted down, I don't want to play this game anymore because it is lame.

@MikeB Explain to me how it is balanced that one player can be perma-rooted to the ground with an unbreakable root while getting gang beaten on by 10+ players. That isn't balanced at all, the solo player has absolutely 0% chance of survival. BEING IN A GROUP =/= GOD MODE, NOR IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE STANCE TO TAKE ON BALANCE. This isn't just about "taking on the zerg" man. If you actually go out and fight in cyrodiil you will find that basically any match where you are outnumbered even by a ratio of one extra player is basically a loss for the team with lower numbers between evenly matched players. Why even bother fighting at all when the outcome is fixed??

because it was designed and marketed this way. just because you prefer small scale doesn't mean it should be build around that. want small scale go IC

Molag_Crow

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

This is just another zerg tool designed to make it even harder to 1vX.

I have generally supported a lot of design changes, many of which many people felt were bad designs. But this one is just really bad. I'm even using maneuvers and immovable it is impossible to change positions in a battle where you are outnumbered now - you just get drilled by like 10 people and thats it.

It's boring and it is not fun. It completely deminishes the need for and use of actual skill in PvP.

It's just another change that favours large groups, and its just another nail in the coffin for PvP and for me. I almost quit after yesterday, and after playing tonight again, I can't see why I would continue to play with the current state of PvP favouring groups so heavily. With the root it is impossible to engage groups with lesser numbers unless you blatantly outperform them in build or stats. Now I know I might be biased; running a stamina sorcerer requires using high mobility to survive - this root is making mobility based survival impossible. Some may say "well you shouldn't be running" but thats not how sorcerers work. I run a very tanky build. I do stay and fight, but I'm not a dk or a temp - sorcs dont have the capacity to stand in a hailstorm of players. Moving around is a critical component, even running a heavy tank build in pvp. I might give it a few more days, but unless this change goes, I think this game is over for me.

(No trolls you can't have my stuff.)

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

From this point forward I will be editing my replies into my original post for everyone I reply to.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn I agree with you entirely, it is fixing something that isn't broken. At all.

@Tonnopesceb16_ESO Why though, prior to these changes I was 1vZerging all the time, it is an incredible fun play style. No that does not mean I am running into an entire army and killing them. What it means is being able to skirt the zerg and pick off stragglers, seige users, etc. Very rarely can you actually pick a zerg appart solo to such an extent that you can defeat the entire group - and in that situation you are almost always being assisted by pugs. Prior to these changes, it was possible, but now the second I charge into a group, all they have to do is gap close and suddenly I go from offensive status to emergency evac. But look at it from the flip side, the zerg already has far superior numbers, damage, healing, and coordination of skills. Why are we giving the zerg more advantages when there is already such an extremely superior benefit to running in numbers.

@Malmai I have to strongly disagree with you in this case. I have been tolerating the lag for two years. Nothing has made me more disheartened to play my main character than this gap closer root change.

@Wing until this change I had no problem with zergs I love to play solo I'm still not having problems with zergs - the gap closing root just makes them impossible to engage on your own anymore. The situations you describe, while they may be annoying situations to encounter, are players exercising skills which allow them to evade attacks. As such, those skills should allow them to avoid being attacked.

Being able to root someone down with a gap closer because they have strategies to avoid your attacks completely guts combat dynamics. It once again deminishes combat to "who can hit who the hardest, who can hit who first" and completely eliminates any need for class roles or build diversity.

@Cinnamon_Spider Exactly. It is really stupid, "oh someone is charging at me, so I should stand still and not move while 10 people hit me at once." If players are that bad that they can't handle hitting a target and they need everyone who gets gap closed to be rooted down, I don't want to play this game anymore because it is lame.

@MikeB Explain to me how it is balanced that one player can be perma-rooted to the ground with an unbreakable root while getting gang beaten on by 10+ players. That isn't balanced at all, the solo player has absolutely 0% chance of survival. BEING IN A GROUP =/= GOD MODE, NOR IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE STANCE TO TAKE ON BALANCE. This isn't just about "taking on the zerg" man. If you actually go out and fight in cyrodiil you will find that basically any match where you are outnumbered even by a ratio of one extra player is basically a loss for the team with lower numbers between evenly matched players. Why even bother fighting at all when the outcome is fixed??

because it was designed and marketed this way. just because you prefer small scale doesn't mean it should be build around that. want small scale go IC

No it wasn't. Gap-closers weren't there before, like now. There was no mention of the change, not that I'm aware of. It was done sneakily.

Resorting to Imperial City -just- to PvP because one can't PvP how they want to, IN Cyrodiil (which is a huge battlefield, by the way) is not a good enough excuse -- a huge battlefield; allowing you to PvP wherever you desire, but wait, there's more! one cannot simply always find PvP in such an enormous battlefield, because there's just too many big groups and zergballs with their 75% damage reduction (6+ players together) rolling around, flattening anybody, no matter how skilled they are.

It's like observing a sword fight between two people on, and then suddenly a bunch of guys intervene the two with damage-reduction shields in one hand, and Light Sabers in the other.

Cathexis

I think its just done for me, I really love this game but the constant pandering to the zerg has systematically destroyed pvp combat and gap closer root is the straw that breaks the camels back for me.

I leave you all with skeletors words of wisdom.

ontheleftcoast

Cathexis wrote: »

It is a poorly designed mechanic plain and simple. It basically ensures that in a 1v10 or 9v10 situation the 1 or 9 always dies. Period. There is no chance to resist AT ALL. All the 10 has to do is continually gap closer spam. Thats it - there is no dynamic combat or any use of tactics.

What game are you talking about? Because I've seen 2 and 3 man squads take out 12 people. I regularly run with a group where our 12 players can easily take out 24 man zergs. There are tactics involved, even with group play. They're very different tactics than 1v1 or 1vX but it's not all about the size of the group.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The strangest thing about this change is that NO ONE ASKED FOR IT.

This was an unwanted, uncalled for, and totally unreported ninja change. Ninja nerfs really hurt the morale of the community. They make it seem like ZOS doesn't care enough about what we think to even notify us when a huge game changing mechanic is added. This is an example of fixing things that aren't broken. There is plenty that actually is broken that should have been addressed instead.

Sort of how Dodge roll and Perma blocking were nerf'ed when the real problem was Engine Guardian and Block Mitigation. High stamina recovery build's could achieve this but at what cost? They were not killing anything. It was Engine Guardian that really made it possible to do these thing's and still maintain high damage.

Some may say otherwise but i strongly believe this set was the whole reason we got this nerf.

I never complained about people who chose to roll a lot or perma block. This was a totally unnecessary change that also help's zerg's. They were both counter-able. It amazes me also how they changed both of these mechanic's with the addition to the Battle Spirit change's.


Just goes to show that Zos has no idea what the **** they are doing when it come's to balance. They just hear people complain and either nerf the **** or buff it.

People don't realize that Sorc shield's have been technically left unchanged. Damage was also lowered with Shield's so there is no difference compared to last patch. Sorc's are still total cheese, they tank harder then pure tank's in pvp.... it's insane. What's balance when we have Shield Breaker right? I don't wanna turn this into a QQ war about classes, we all know each class (exepct magicka dk and i think stam templar) has something OP that could use balance.

Cathexis

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

It is a poorly designed mechanic plain and simple. It basically ensures that in a 1v10 or 9v10 situation the 1 or 9 always dies. Period. There is no chance to resist AT ALL. All the 10 has to do is continually gap closer spam. Thats it - there is no dynamic combat or any use of tactics.

What game are you talking about? Because I've seen 2 and 3 man squads take out 12 people. I regularly run with a group where our 12 players can easily take out 24 man zergs. There are tactics involved, even with group play. They're very different tactics than 1v1 or 1vX but it's not all about the size of the group.

Yes its possible in larger groups, but you are strictly looking at highly organized groups, likely with superior healing and damage.

What I'm experiencing is groups of players who are not highly organized, whether that be by choice or not.

The argument is entirely being sidetracked though. I'm not saying the zerg needs to be removed from the game. What I'm saying is that gap closer rooting destroys solo play in PvP. I'm not saying the game has to revolve around solo players but they should at least be able to engage a siege for example without getting smacked down instantaneously by a bunch of players spamming gap closers. There is room for these playstyles to coexist, and quite frankly if a full team of players who have a massive damage reduction advantage can't handle being harassed by a single player, they shouldn't be rewarded with more easy mode abilities.

Erdmanski

I agree with the OP. This really needs to be fixed so PVP becomes more than just quantity > quality. I'm not the most skilled player, but I would at least like a chance when I come across a small group in PVP. As it stands currently, I don't even try to break free or fight back when 3 nightblades start spamming ambush on me, I just stand there and let them kill me.

dennissomb16_ESO

For me the issue is a lack of effective CC immunity timer. This game seems to have immunity timers that are often to short or simply do not work at all. Take poor CC immunity add in the fact that people can spam cc abilities like talons, gap closers, etc. and then of course large groups and you get situations like the OP is talking about. Make useful CC immunity and leave abilities alone

JaJaLuka

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The strangest thing about this change is that NO ONE ASKED FOR IT.

• Where were all the threads complaining about missing gap closers?
• Where were the patch notes that documented this change.

This was an unwanted, uncalled for, and totally unreported ninja change.

Ninja nerfs really hurt the morale of the community. They make it seem like ZOS doesn't care enough about what we think to even notify us when a huge game changing mechanic is added.

This is an example of fixing things that aren't broken. There is plenty that actually is broken that should have been addressed instead.

I got so [snip] fed up with it I now log onto my NB to give them a taste of their own medicine when they do it to me, but I still stand by my thought that first ambush needs to have a min distance and that they should just remove the damn root entirely. I've known about it since it first came in, as a player with [snip] ping rate, it was very noticeable when it was introduced. I mentioned it on the forums and reported/gave feedback on it in game, but of course nothing happened.

As a side note: if I catch anyone spamming ambush in game on PC NA server to me or anyone else, yes I'll log onto my DC NB and ambush spam the [snip] out of you until you quit for the day, it's nothing less than you deserve. I have occasionally widened my sights onto other obvious exploiting and [snip] them off with it if I'm just plain sick of the BS, but it depends on how fed up I am with the sh*t in this game on the day.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

altemriel

Cathexis wrote: »

This is just another zerg tool designed to make it even harder to 1vX.

I have generally supported a lot of design changes, many of which many people felt were bad designs. But this one is just really bad. I'm even using maneuvers and immovable it is impossible to change positions in a battle where you are outnumbered now - you just get drilled by like 10 people and thats it.

It's boring and it is not fun. It completely diminishes the need for and use of actual skill in PvP.

It's just another change that favours large groups, and its just another nail in the coffin for PvP and for me. I almost quit after yesterday, and after playing tonight again, I can't see why I would continue to play with the current state of PvP favouring groups so heavily. With the root it is impossible to engage groups with lesser numbers unless you blatantly outperform them in build or stats. Now I know I might be biased; running a stamina sorcerer requires using high mobility to survive - this root is making mobility based survival impossible. Some may say "well you shouldn't be running" but thats not how sorcerers work. I run a very tanky build. I do stay and fight, but I'm not a dk or a temp - sorcs dont have the capacity to stand in a hailstorm of players. Moving around is a critical component, even running a heavy tank build in pvp. I might give it a few more days, but unless this change goes, I think this game is over for me.

Edit; After giving it another night I've come to the same conclusion which is that it simply isn't worth playing this game anymore with the current state of pvp and this new gap closer debuff. It is basically easy mode, and completely ruins what was left of any fun dynamic between players in pvp.

(No trolls you can't have my stuff.)

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

From this point forward I will be editing my replies into my original post for everyone I reply to.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn I agree with you entirely, it is fixing something that isn't broken. At all.

@Tonnopesceb16_ESO Why though, prior to these changes I was 1vZerging all the time, it is an incredible fun play style. No that does not mean I am running into an entire army and killing them. What it means is being able to skirt the zerg and pick off stragglers, seige users, etc. Very rarely can you actually pick a zerg appart solo to such an extent that you can defeat the entire group - and in that situation you are almost always being assisted by pugs. Prior to these changes, it was possible, but now the second I charge into a group, all they have to do is gap close and suddenly I go from offensive status to emergency evac. But look at it from the flip side, the zerg already has far superior numbers, damage, healing, and coordination of skills. Why are we giving the zerg more advantages when there is already such an extremely superior benefit to running in numbers.

@Malmai I have to strongly disagree with you in this case. I have been tolerating the lag for two years. Nothing has made me more disheartened to play my main character than this gap closer root change.

@Wing until this change I had no problem with zergs I love to play solo I'm still not having problems with zergs - the gap closing root just makes them impossible to engage on your own anymore. The situations you describe, while they may be annoying situations to encounter, are players exercising skills which allow them to evade attacks. As such, those skills should allow them to avoid being attacked.

Being able to root someone down with a gap closer because they have strategies to avoid your attacks completely guts combat dynamics. It once again deminishes combat to "who can hit who the hardest, who can hit who first" and completely eliminates any need for class roles or build diversity.

@Cinnamon_Spider Exactly. It is really stupid, "oh someone is charging at me, so I should stand still and not move while 10 people hit me at once." If players are that bad that they can't handle hitting a target and they need everyone who gets gap closed to be rooted down, I don't want to play this game anymore because it is lame.

@MikeB Explain to me how it is balanced that one player can be perma-rooted to the ground with an unbreakable root while getting gang beaten on by 10+ players. That isn't balanced at all, the solo player has absolutely 0% chance of survival. BEING IN A GROUP =/= GOD MODE, NOR IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE STANCE TO TAKE ON BALANCE. This isn't just about "taking on the zerg" man. If you actually go out and fight in cyrodiil you will find that basically any match where you are outnumbered even by a ratio of one extra player is basically a loss for the team with lower numbers between evenly matched players. Why even bother fighting at all when the outcome is fixed??

@Artjuh90 This has nothing to do with "building the game around small scale." It is a poorly designed mechanic plain and simple. It basically ensures that in a 1v10 or 9v10 situation the 1 or 9 always dies. Period. There is no chance to resist AT ALL. All the 10 has to do is continually gap closer spam. Thats it - there is no dynamic combat or any use of tactics.

@Artjuh90 @CrowsDescend this is the problem with the game at present, everything caters to the zerg. Standing in a group in this game right now is basically typing in the god mode cheat. It is dumb. Smaller groups and solo players SHOULD have a chance to take on larger groups! Being in a larger group shouldnt just make you able to flatten everything in your path.

wait, what are you talkinga about? what is the meaning of gap closers? is that some new mechanics implemented? serious question.

Refuse2GrowUp

I agree. I am never one to cry for nerfs or call anything OP. But, the the spambush root is a bit unnecessary for the skill. All gap closers already have a 1 second speed debuff. I think that is more than sufficient for a spam-able gap closer.

Molag_Crow

altemriel wrote: »

wait, what are you talkinga about? what is the meaning of gap closers? is that some new mechanics implemented? serious question.

When you charge an enemy with Ambush, Critical Rush, Toppling Charge, Surprise Attack(?) (even though that's not a charge... it's an attack!) and any ability that I've missed out, which basically closes the gap between you and the target, so you can keep consistent damage on them, well... it's a mini-stun that ignores CC Immunity, basically, so you cannot really escape if there's too many enemies trying to kill you.

They added it because apparently players couldn't keep on their target due to lag. It seems like a cheap fix, in my opinion. If I had the power to, I'd definitely put a cooldown on gap-closers, like... at least every 5-8 seconds.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

I wouldn't care about it except it goes through abilities like retreating maneuvers which is meant to provide root / snare immunity.

Molag_Crow

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't care about it except it goes through abilities like retreating maneuvers which is meant to provide root / snare immunity.

Indeed.




And with Mist Form, I'd personally count the gap-closer's mini-stun as loss control of character, even though it mainly means hard CC like mass hysteria, etc.

Tomato

I'm scared for the next DLC and all the horrible changes ZOS will implement without any actual thought process. They will do this and still not fix the lag. Once that happens I think the remaining PvP community will move on

dlepi24

I completely agree with this thread. Things like this are what's dragging me away from the game. I quit playing for a month and just came back yesterday and really enjoyed my time back except for things like this and AOE caps that just make me want to completely stop. It took roughly 2 days for me to be right back where I was a month ago when I got fed up with it. Just frustrating to know how good this game could be if they would actually listen to the things we wanted or would at least acknowledge the complaints the majority of us have.

Hiero_Glyph

Personally I think that all gap closers should be given a single-target AoE effect (similar to WW's Pounce) where if the target moves out of the AoE radius it will still move to that area but miss the target. This would make mobility a counter to gap closers and CC/snares a counter to mobility. Also, all gap closers should require a minimum distance from the target in order to activate.

Rohaus

I too am tired of not being able to get away from Zerglings... And of course NB's are the biggest abuser of this broken mechanic...