Joys of Tanking using the Group Finder

Tan9oSuccka

PSA: 3 Sorcerers with a couple restoration staff powers does not equal a healer.

Stop snowing the role selection. You are not a healer.

That is all.

Iselin

Adapt or die that's all!

PS... just 3-manned Direfrost with 2 DPSers and 1 healer since we got tired of waiting for a 4th. We rocked the place!

Disclaimer: 2 DPSers were Stamina Templars and the healer was a Templar too

Heindrich

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

failkiwib16_ESO

Templar healers are not needed for any dungeons, but not all groups are good enough to be able to pull through like that. In general it is much safer, if you pug a dungeon, to get a templar healer.

My problem with group finder, as a templar healer. I wish to join my friends in other factions, through group finder, yet it is hard because it searches through my own faction first, and many people use it during rush hours ...so I can only use group finder to group with my other-faction-friends at late nights.

The other day me and my friends tried to group up for vet CoH, and tried many times to group with my friend from EP, but we kept getting the same 2 AD players in our group. It was very frustrating, because it felt really bad to tell them to leave group because we were searching for a friend. One of them was v6 and thought I asked him to leave group, because he/she wasn't v16....

At least give us option to group with our friends from other factions for instanced dungeons and pledges.

NewBlacksmurf

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

Templars, I agree but other than that, everyone should be able to sustain themselves a bit.
If your build is one where a non-Templar cant heal you, you may need to change some things for groups if you PUG

Toc de Malsvi

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

I agree with the first sentence but not the last paragraph, my stam DK has no problem mitigating his own damage and healing himself while putting out solid dps. At least 50% of damage taken is avoidable players all to often do not avoid it though, I rarely find non tanks that even attempt to block, and there seems to be a decent amount of the console population that thinks that dodge rolling is only for stam classes.

demendred

This is what happens when you play a game run by interns.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

nordsavage

That is just how the pug finder works. You get a tank that does not taunt and has no shield. The two dps are heavy armor tanks who only attack with taunt or light heavy/attacks. Finally the healer thinks rapid regen is only needed to heal. Toss in a guy who afk's for ten minutes to smoke or take a dump mid run for some variation.

Tan9oSuccka

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

Sorry, the resto staff powers don't cut it for a tank that actually does his job taunting multiple enemies. Got to keep the glass cannons alive!

Running though most dungeons with these yolo swag hybrid builds CAN be done but only by a very, very small percentage of the population.

I would rather have a level 10 Templar healer, than a V16 Yolo Swag Resto Sorcerer. No doubt about it.

Shunravi

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

Sorry, the resto staff powers don't cut it for a tank that actually does his job taunting multiple enemies. Got to keep the glass cannons alive!

Running though most dungeons with these yolo swag hybrid builds CAN be done but only by a very, very small percentage of the population.

I would rather have a level 10 Templar healer, than a V16 Yolo Swag Resto Sorcerer. No doubt about it.

I seriously question your game experience....

Makkir

I am a Sorc healer that runs 2 resto spells on my resto bar. My groups are fine. When the Tank and DPs are not fails, my vet groups are a snore.

Tan9oSuccka

Shunravi wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

Sorry, the resto staff powers don't cut it for a tank that actually does his job taunting multiple enemies. Got to keep the glass cannons alive!

Running though most dungeons with these yolo swag hybrid builds CAN be done but only by a very, very small percentage of the population.

I would rather have a level 10 Templar healer, than a V16 Yolo Swag Resto Sorcerer. No doubt about it.

I seriously question your game experience....

You're right. It must have been my first Group Fight....at VR16.

Makkir

Shunravi wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

Sorry, the resto staff powers don't cut it for a tank that actually does his job taunting multiple enemies. Got to keep the glass cannons alive!

Running though most dungeons with these yolo swag hybrid builds CAN be done but only by a very, very small percentage of the population.

I would rather have a level 10 Templar healer, than a V16 Yolo Swag Resto Sorcerer. No doubt about it.

I seriously question your game experience....

He has no clue what he's talking about. He is 100% demonstrating a bad tank.

Tan9oSuccka

Makkir wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

Sorry, the resto staff powers don't cut it for a tank that actually does his job taunting multiple enemies. Got to keep the glass cannons alive!

Running though most dungeons with these yolo swag hybrid builds CAN be done but only by a very, very small percentage of the population.

I would rather have a level 10 Templar healer, than a V16 Yolo Swag Resto Sorcerer. No doubt about it.

I seriously question your game experience....

He has no clue what he's talking about. He is 100% demonstrating a bad tank.

I appreciate your informative and helpful post. I look forward to seeing more of your work in the future.

Shunravi

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

Sorry, the resto staff powers don't cut it for a tank that actually does his job taunting multiple enemies. Got to keep the glass cannons alive!

Running though most dungeons with these yolo swag hybrid builds CAN be done but only by a very, very small percentage of the population.

I would rather have a level 10 Templar healer, than a V16 Yolo Swag Resto Sorcerer. No doubt about it.

I seriously question your game experience....

You're right. It must have been my first Group Fight....at VR16.

It seriously must have been. Did you grind up and then do your first group run?

PBpsy

The problem with NON templar healers is that most PUGs are not good enough to do them with one. No problem with the non temp healers for almost anything.

UrQuan

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

Sorry, the resto staff powers don't cut it for a tank that actually does his job taunting multiple enemies. Got to keep the glass cannons alive!

Running though most dungeons with these yolo swag hybrid builds CAN be done but only by a very, very small percentage of the population.

I would rather have a level 10 Templar healer, than a V16 Yolo Swag Resto Sorcerer. No doubt about it.

If you're a tank taunting multiple enemies and you can't keep yourself alive with a healer using just resto staff, then you're a bad tank. A good tank will have sufficient resistance/health/damage shields/self heals/damage mitigation/dodge chance/blocking to weather attacks from multiple enemies for a very long time with minimal support from the healer. The only time a tank should ever need more than a couple of resto staff HoTs is in the most challenging group content (SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA). Heck, most of the time a tank taunting as many enemies as possible should be able to survive for a long time without a healer at all.

SevenKingdoms

Lol @ some of these posts. There's no reason the healer role should be filled with a non-Templar. It's not about skill level, it's about the efficacy of which Templars can perform the task. How do things like this even need clarified?

code65536

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

... but there are VERY FEW "more demanding dungeons" in the game right now, and because of such statements, people still firmly believe that "only templars can heal". Which is silly. My sorc can heal perfectly anything in the game except SO, HR, vWGT, vCOA, vICP and vDSA . But 95% of the time she DPS'es because "only templars can heal"... (and there's a serious lack of healers in my guilds... but "only templars can heal"...). I gave up on that "fight", I must admit...

Sorry, the resto staff powers don't cut it for a tank that actually does his job taunting multiple enemies. Got to keep the glass cannons alive!

Running though most dungeons with these yolo swag hybrid builds CAN be done but only by a very, very small percentage of the population.

I would rather have a level 10 Templar healer, than a V16 Yolo Swag Resto Sorcerer. No doubt about it.

LOL.

I guess you've never tanked VDSA with splits, if you need that much hand-holding from the healer.

Tan9oSuccka

SevenKingdoms wrote: »

Lol @ some of these posts. There's no reason the healer role should be filled with a non-Templar. It's not about skill level, it's about the efficacy of which Templars can perform the task. How do things like this even need clarified?

Finally! Thank you.

I'm talking about joining random players for a group dungeon.

I realize that everyone on the forum is MLG Pro Healer Sorcerer, but for the overwhelming majority that's not the case.

code65536

SevenKingdoms wrote: »

Lol @ some of these posts. There's no reason the healer role should be filled with a non-Templar. It's not about skill level, it's about the efficacy of which Templars can perform the task. How do things like this even need clarified?

Yes, a Templar would be ideal. But most content in the game, it's also overkill. Er, or overheal.

UrQuan

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

SevenKingdoms wrote: »

Lol @ some of these posts. There's no reason the healer role should be filled with a non-Templar. It's not about skill level, it's about the efficacy of which Templars can perform the task. How do things like this even need clarified?

Finally! Thank you.

I'm talking about joining random players for a group dungeon.

I realize that everyone on the forum is MLG Pro Healer Sorcerer, but for the overwhelming majority that's not the case.

Relatively recently I used the LFG tool to get a group for a non-vet pledge (it was Blackheart Haven and I was tanking). Unfortunately the PUG was one of the worst I've had. The 2 DPS would yolo attack everything before I could grab aggro, and would get one-shotted by AOEs that they would stand in (scaled up to VR16 they each had something in the range of 12-14K health). The healer relied almost entirely on Breath of Life, and would also stand in AOEs and die (he also had only about 12-14K health). Every single boss fight I was very quickly the only one standing (they would constantly die in trash mob fights too), and I essentially soloed all of the bosses until we got to the last boss. Because I kept getting turned into a skeleton I couldn't solo that one, and they kept getting killed by the skeleton archers, so we couldn't complete it.

The point is that as a tank, I definitely didn't need a Templar healer - up until the last fight I didn't need a healer (or DPS) at all. A competent (not necessarily highly skilled) NB or Sorc or DK healer using a resto staff would have been vastly preferable to the Templar healer I had. A competent Templar healer would have been nice too, but totally not needed. Now granted, that was a non-vet dungeon, and I wouldn't have been able to solo bosses without a healer in a vet dungeon, but the point is that as long as the group is competent (again: not necessarily highly skilled, just competent) there's very little content where the extra efficiency of a Templar healer will make any difference.

I'll also note that I've done plenty of PUGs with non-Templar healers (silver key and gold key pledges) with no problems. Aside from the tough content, there's no reason the healer role shouldn't be filled with a non-Templar. Even for the tough content, a skilled non-Templar with a good build is far preferable to an average or below-average Templar healer.

TalonShina

It is about knowing your role and your place. Even Templar healers can fail although it is likely that one would have to be very bad to make that happen since without a doubt templars have the most healing resources.

I am trying two different healing builds a Templar bow/resto and a NB bow/resto
I am hoping my setups and gear along with knowing how my skills work will be good

The only real issue I can see with using one of the other classes to heal is resource management for Tanks and DPS and possibly that lack of an OH SH*T BUTTON for sticky situations.

I ran into this before on Tera Priests and Mystics were the healing classes and I preferred mystic but most PUGs preferred Priests because their healing was more conventional and they had more tools if something really went wrong.

anitajoneb17_ESO

SevenKingdoms wrote: »

Lol @ some of these posts. There's no reason the healer role should be filled with a non-Templar. It's not about skill level, it's about the efficacy of which Templars can perform the task. How do things like this even need clarified?

Because some players with other classes like to heal too and are very good at it ?
Because it's nice to change and try some new things and not always follow the same supposedly one compulsory way ?
Because some people don't roll templars just because "ppl will expect me to heal and I don't want to be a healer ?

Because such clichés like "only templars can heal" and "a templar must heal" cause a lot of prejudice to the game, the gameplay, the diversity and the players ?

Because it causes boredom ?

How do things like this even need to be explained ?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

The problem with nontemplar healers is that people look to the healer to carry them through dungeons. So they can do whatever and not have to worry about it. As a nontemplar you have less wiggle room for those people.

Sure it isnt your fault they cant get out of the giant red markings, but the templar healer they had last time got them through this... So it must be your fault.

RAGUNAnoOne

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

The problem with non-Templar healers isn't that they can't heal well enough... If you take so much damage that you need BoL spam to stay alive, then it's not the Healer's fault if you die.

The problem with non-templar healers is that they cannot support stamina dps and tanks with stamina management due to lack of Repentance and Shards. All min/max'd dps players (rightly) build for max dps and rely on the Healer for resource management. Even the best tanks sometimes need help with stamina management in the more demanding dungeons. Thus templars are still most people's healer of choice.

I agree with the first sentence but not the last paragraph, my stam DK has no problem mitigating his own damage and healing himself while putting out solid dps. At least 50% of damage taken is avoidable players all to often do not avoid it though, I rarely find non tanks that even attempt to block, and there seems to be a decent amount of the console population that thinks that dodge rolling is only for stam classes.

I block and dodge when I see an oh *** hit coming and I have 0 points in stamina but I do have to nag a lot more to magicka DPS people to stay out of stupid or at least block some attacks. nice sig by the way compliments this statement.

J2JMC

Iselin wrote: »

Adapt or die that's all!

PS... just 3-manned Direfrost with 2 DPSers and 1 healer since we got tired of waiting for a 4th. We rocked the place!

Disclaimer: 2 DPSers were Stamina Templars and the healer was a Templar too

Wow. You 3 manned a normal dungeon with a healer.

UrQuan

J2JMC wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Adapt or die that's all!

PS... just 3-manned Direfrost with 2 DPSers and 1 healer since we got tired of waiting for a 4th. We rocked the place!

Disclaimer: 2 DPSers were Stamina Templars and the healer was a Templar too

Wow. You 3 manned a normal dungeon with a healer.

lol the other day I joined a level 45 DPS and a level 47 DPS with my VR3 DPS to PUG the non-vet pledge. We were looking for a healer, and intended to scale it to level 45 for an easy run through. We couldn't find a healer, but we were able to grab a VR16 DPS, so we figured we'd still be able to get through quick and easy. Well, somehow during the search for a 4th the crown ended up using the LFG tool, and when we got to the dungeon everything was scaled to VR16, and we were battle-leveled. Didn't quite end up being the fast easy run we had intended, but we got through the dungeon fine with no healer and no tank... I wouldn't like to try that in a vet dungeon.

Fruitmass

I have no issues with non Templar healers (met more than a few in my time playing and often enough they've done right by me), nor do I have issues with those who off-spec if they can handle it. However I do have to say that I'm not fond of people who queue in for a role they are in no way prepared for. This includes Templars. Having BoL does not make you a healer, just as wearing heavy armor does not make you a tank.

Please if you do not have the appropriate gear, attributes or skills to perform the role do not queue for it.

Magdalina

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Templar healers are not needed for any dungeons, but not all groups are good enough to be able to pull through like that. In general it is much safer, if you pug a dungeon, to get a templar healer.

My problem with group finder, as a templar healer. I wish to join my friends in other factions, through group finder, yet it is hard because it searches through my own faction first, and many people use it during rush hours ...so I can only use group finder to group with my other-faction-friends at late nights.

The other day me and my friends tried to group up for vet CoH, and tried many times to group with my friend from EP, but we kept getting the same 2 AD players in our group. It was very frustrating, because it felt really bad to tell them to leave group because we were searching for a friend. One of them was v6 and thought I asked him to leave group, because he/she wasn't v16....

At least give us option to group with our friends from other factions for instanced dungeons and pledges.

Did you try setting your role as tank? Seems to work really well for me so far. Set your role as tank and start the search at the same second, I've been able to cross faction grab my friends every single time so far that way I think:)

Also biggest reason why pugs want/need templar really is BoL. Blankly put if you suck, it's a lot easier for an average templar to keep you from dying than for other classes(though I'd argue about DK healer specced for shields. He wouldn't be able to burst heal but he could stack so many shields even the worst pugs would have an issue getting their health down ) because BoL spam. It doesn't mean that only templars can heal though. And frankly if you need BoL spam to stay alive you're probably doing something wrong.

Far as the actual point of the OP though....pugs are hit or miss and a lot of the time people queue up as roles they are not just to find group faster I guess. It's annoying but oh well, gotta be patient or not pug:)