A Guide To Magicka Templar DPS (Bonus Healer Build)

Tankqull

you should mention that animation cancel darkflares bugged initial casting animation is crutial for this build to work at all.

Tankqull

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

I think he is trolling since temps are nerfed. I can tell by that joker emoticon haha

exactly how did templar dps get nerfed? O.o

stealth nerfed punc. strikes, less healing hgher spellcost = harder to sustain

Nifty2g

Tankqull wrote: »

you should mention that animation cancel darkflares bugged initial casting animation is crutial for this build to work at all.

It's got nothing to do with animation canceling, though when I rewrite this whole thing I'll include a lot more details as now this is the main rotation for Templars instead of the Puncturing Sweep spam

Tankqull

well your vid is perfectly showing exactly the animation canceling of darksflare buggy animation wich is ~ twice as long as the spell CT actually is if it is not quequed with itself.

Nifty2g

Tankqull wrote: »

well your vid is perfectly showing exactly the animation canceling of darksflare buggy animation wich is ~ twice as long as the spell CT actually is if it is not quequed with itself.

That is just basic light weaving as you can't animation cancel channeled abilties (apart from wrecking blow), the reason Kena procs is because you're hitting the light attack before the dark flare hits, Light attack -> Dark Flare -> Light attack. It's mainly taking advantage of the combat system and exploiting it with travel times, which is why it doesnt work with maelstrom staff

Islyn

@Nifty2g Nice!

have you heard anything about them fixing the first cast of Dark Flare? Because it's wrong, or the tooltip is.

Nifty2g wrote: »

So anyway heres the rotation I'm thinking but again, I haven't completed the testing I'm just waiting to hear back from @Asayre on a bunch of things I needed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJZPdJiiTmQ

The problem is, you can proc kena with using Dark Flare only, it doesn't work with a maelstrom staff which puts a lot of the rotations I had in mind down a lot.
I'm still not sure 100% sure if using the maelstrom instead of swords is better and using it to proc a different skill but even then none of it will line up with how you want it to and you wont get full use of molag kena if you proc it with lets say vampires bane. And the weave damage gain with maelstrom staff seems little as it cant compare to a buffed and empowered dark flare in molag kena proc.
(This video was done without any buffs and with no cp allocated which is why damage is low, it's just to show rotation and timing)

However, I am expecting a nerf to happen to Dark Flare soon - This is without a lot of raid buffs

After all the hell they've put us through I sure hope they don't nerf DF.

Tankqull

its not animation canceling as other abilities.
the darkflare animation just does not match the actual CT of DF but is significant longer if you do not queque it permenantly with itself. [~sec 23-26 in your vid its quite obvious, your char is halfway through the DF animation (barly moved to its left arm to its lowest position) and you "cancel" the unneccessary overlapping animation of DF.


have they fixed the problem that empowering a dot/channeld ability only affects the first impact of that skill and not all the following hits? otherwise using puncturing does no profit at all.

Nifty2g

Tankqull wrote: »

its not animation canceling as other abilities.
the darkflare animation just does not match the actual CT of DF but is significant longer if you do not queque it permenantly with itself. [~sec 23-26 in your vid its quite obvious, your char is halfway through the DF animation (barly moved to its left arm to its lowest position) and you "cancel" the unneccessary overlapping animation of DF.


have they fixed the problem that empowering a dot/channeld ability only affects the first impact of that skill and not all the following hits? otherwise using puncturing does no profit at all.

I wouldn't call it animation cancelling honestly more so weaving
Are you reading my original post as that is old and outdated, check the newest video

cazlonb16_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

you should mention that animation cancel darkflares bugged initial casting animation is crutial for this build to work at all.

It's got nothing to do with animation canceling, though when I rewrite this whole thing I'll include a lot more details as now this is the main rotation for Templars instead of the Puncturing Sweep spam

Are you sure it's worth the effort ? We all know DF in its current state won't make it to live, not in a million years.

Nifty2g

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

you should mention that animation cancel darkflares bugged initial casting animation is crutial for this build to work at all.

It's got nothing to do with animation canceling, though when I rewrite this whole thing I'll include a lot more details as now this is the main rotation for Templars instead of the Puncturing Sweep spam

Are you sure it's worth the effort ? We all know DF in its current state won't make it to live, not in a million years.

Any sort of buff to dark flare is going to make it the strongest ability to use over puncturing sweeps imo, I expect a nerf but not a bad one

Tankqull

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

its not animation canceling as other abilities.
the darkflare animation just does not match the actual CT of DF but is significant longer if you do not queque it permenantly with itself. [~sec 23-26 in your vid its quite obvious, your char is halfway through the DF animation (barly moved to its left arm to its lowest position) and you "cancel" the unneccessary overlapping animation of DF.


have they fixed the problem that empowering a dot/channeld ability only affects the first impact of that skill and not all the following hits? otherwise using puncturing does no profit at all.

I wouldn't call it animation cancelling honestly more so weaving
Are you reading my original post as that is old and outdated, check the newest video

ah ok [watched this now]- my question is obsolete then
but none the less you are effected by that animation bug wich would grant you another 20-30% DPS as by your skill usage you are castig DF with its bugged extended animation time all the time.

Nifty2g

Just going to leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krXmLHz46G8
and to let you guys know front page has been updated and will be having more stuff added to it as i found stuff out.
Our strongest rotation most likely - no raid buffs apart from 1 Warhorn at the start

hedna123b14_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

Just going to leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krXmLHz46G8
and to let you guys know front page has been updated and will be having more stuff added to it as i found stuff out.
Our strongest rotation most likely - no raid buffs apart from 1 Warhorn at the start

I was all about the DF focused build. My crits were hitting for 51k, but then I went into the new trial. With 6+ minute fights I ran out of magicka in 1.5 minutes, and that's without Kena and with Channeled Focus down and vamp bane proccing ele drain....I switched to a Maelstrom staff rotation and started pulling 20K consistent over 8 minute intervals (this is with still learning my rotation, boss mechanics and dying while my ftc kept running) with no magicka issues. I think for burst damage DF is king, but for any long term fight it won't be sustainable...

Nifty2g

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Just going to leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krXmLHz46G8
and to let you guys know front page has been updated and will be having more stuff added to it as i found stuff out.
Our strongest rotation most likely - no raid buffs apart from 1 Warhorn at the start

I was all about the DF focused build. My crits were hitting for 51k, but then I went into the new trial. With 6+ minute fights I ran out of magicka in 1.5 minutes, and that's without Kena and with Channeled Focus down and vamp bane proccing ele drain....I switched to a Maelstrom staff rotation and started pulling 20K consistent over 8 minute intervals (this is with still learning my rotation, boss mechanics and dying while my ftc kept running) with no magicka issues. I think for burst damage DF is king, but for any long term fight it won't be sustainable...

i was fine with the new trial (first boss) using dark flare and vamp bane, make sure your healers are using elemental drain and force siphon and keep channeled focus down

seems like a problem with the group synergy

hedna123b14_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Just going to leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krXmLHz46G8
and to let you guys know front page has been updated and will be having more stuff added to it as i found stuff out.
Our strongest rotation most likely - no raid buffs apart from 1 Warhorn at the start

I was all about the DF focused build. My crits were hitting for 51k, but then I went into the new trial. With 6+ minute fights I ran out of magicka in 1.5 minutes, and that's without Kena and with Channeled Focus down and vamp bane proccing ele drain....I switched to a Maelstrom staff rotation and started pulling 20K consistent over 8 minute intervals (this is with still learning my rotation, boss mechanics and dying while my ftc kept running) with no magicka issues. I think for burst damage DF is king, but for any long term fight it won't be sustainable...

i was fine with the new trial (first boss) using dark flare and vamp bane, make sure your healers are using elemental drain and force siphon and keep channeled focus down

seems like a problem with the group synergy

Ill give it one more try but I definitely missed the sustain from staff weaves...what kind of numbers did you get with flare?

NewBlacksmurf

Alright.

nimander99

dood yer smert

Nifty2g

There's a proper parse, it was very wonky and much improvement but I'm fairly sure we can get around 33k+ DPS

ryanborror

For your single target rotation do you think replacing blazing spear with another sweeps would yield higher numbers? (Vamp bane, purifying, wall of elements, sweep sweep sweep repeat). It seems spear deals the least damage and is a double click. Perhaps a dot too many. Idk It's something to try.

Nifty2g

ryanborror wrote: »

For your single target rotation do you think replacing blazing spear with another sweeps would yield higher numbers? (Vamp bane, purifying, wall of elements, sweep sweep sweep repeat). It seems spear deals the least damage and is a double click. Perhaps a dot too many. Idk It's something to try.

The new Champ System favors DoT builds quite a lot especially this one, Blazing Spear also gives procs to Burning Light, I believe @ZOS_GinaBruno had said they removed the ICD of Burning Light allowing multiple procs of it but deal less damage. Plus the initial hit of Blazing Spear is quite strong '

Actually you gave me an idea with something I have to test

EgoRush

Speaking of the Champion system. Any word on the benefit of Thaum over Elfborn? Considering Elfborn only benefits the times when you crit, whereas Thaum will benefit all of your DoTs (Sweeps, Blazing, Radiant Oppression, Vamp Bane etc), this could mean it's better to prioritise Thaum after Ele Expert is maxed out.

Nifty2g

EgoRush wrote: »

Speaking of the Champion system. Any word on the benefit of Thaum over Elfborn? Considering Elfborn only benefits the times when you crit, whereas Thaum will benefit all of your DoTs (Sweeps, Blazing, Radiant Oppression, Vamp Bane etc), this could mean it's better to prioritise Thaum after Ele Expert is maxed out.

The theory from @Asayre at the moment is 73 in Ele Expert and Thaumathurge (since everything is a DoT now) and 18 in Elfborn and 3 in Spell Erosion.

But this is most likely going to change as the builds are still being worked on

EgoRush

Nifty2g wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Speaking of the Champion system. Any word on the benefit of Thaum over Elfborn? Considering Elfborn only benefits the times when you crit, whereas Thaum will benefit all of your DoTs (Sweeps, Blazing, Radiant Oppression, Vamp Bane etc), this could mean it's better to prioritise Thaum after Ele Expert is maxed out.

The theory from @Asayre at the moment is 73 in Ele Expert and Thaumathurge (since everything is a DoT now) and 18 in Elfborn and 3 in Spell Erosion.

But this is most likely going to change as the builds are still being worked on

Hmm interesting to know. I'm still more keen to max out Ele Expert before Thaum if using a Inferno Staff for weaving. Thaum will do nothing to boost that damage, whereas Ele Expert will max absolutely every aspect of your damage. So I'm leaning towards 98-100 Ele Expert before I start splitting into Thaum/Elfborn/Erosion.

EDIT: I'm not taking into account diminishing returns though...hmmmmmm.

Asayre

I don't think it is worth maxing out Elemental Expert because the staff attacks are only a small proportion of the overall damage (2.3% in Nifty's Serpent pass). Also I'm not sure if that LA includes damage from the Maelstrom enchantment because the enchantment is not affected by Elemental Expert.

EgoRush

Asayre wrote: »

I don't think it is worth maxing out Elemental Expert because the staff attacks are only a small proportion of the overall damage (2.3% in Nifty's Serpent pass). Also I'm not sure if that LA includes damage from the Maelstrom enchantment because the enchantment is not affected by Elemental Expert.

I see your point. So 73 CP into Ele Expert/Thaum is ~18.25% damage increase versus the full 25%

Let's assume Elfborn and Erosion remain at 18 and 3 points leaving us with 146 CP to play with.
Scenario 1: 100 Ele Expert, 46 Thaum = 25% to all damage and ~11.5% to DoTs (everything except 2.3% damage by staff attacks)
Scenario 2: 73 Ele Expert, 73 Thaum = 18.25% to all damage and 18.25% to DoTs

However, scenario 2 is missing 6.75% damage to all attacks for the benefit of only 6.75% to DoTs (admittedly 97.7% of total damage). Therefore, wouldn't scenario 1 just about beat scenario 2? I am a complete noob for this kind of math, so please correct me if I've made a glaring error.

Asayre

The error is that champion points are not linear.

Scenario 1: 100 Ele Expert, 46 Thaumathurge = 25% to all damage, 14.5% to DoTs
Scenario 2: 73 Ele Expert, 73 Thaumathurge = 20.1% to all damage and 20.1% to DoTs

So you're losing 4.9% to your total damage to gain 5.6% on your DoTs. Since your DoTs account for ~98% of total damage this means it is an overall gain of -4.9+0.98*5.6 = 0.42%. It's not really a huge deal I suppose overall. As long as you're putting points into Elemental Expert and Thaumathurge things should go swimmingly.

EgoRush

Asayre wrote: »

The error is that champion points are not linear.

Scenario 1: 100 Ele Expert, 46 Thaumathurge = 25% to all damage, 14.5% to DoTs
Scenario 2: 73 Ele Expert, 73 Thaumathurge = 20.1% to all damage and 20.1% to DoTs

So you're losing 4.9% to your total damage to gain 5.6% on your DoTs. Since your DoTs account for ~98% of total damage this means it is an overall gain of -4.9+0.98*5.6 = 0.42%. It's not really a huge deal I suppose overall. As long as you're putting points into Elemental Expert and Thaumathurge things should go swimmingly.

Ha yeah I suspected the linearity would be the issue but I didn't have the exact numbers to hand. Apologies. I do think people are vastly underestimating how strong magicka Templar will be now. We can basically get a 50% increase (post cap) in damage to all our main skills (except Dark Flare). My rotation is going to include medium weaves and starts with a fully charged heavy attack too so that's going to complicate the benefit of Thaum with Ele Expert. I think I will stick with 97-100 Ele Expert then move into other trees.

hedna123b14_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

There's a proper parse, it was very wonky and much improvement but I'm fairly sure we can get around 33k+ DPS

Those are great numbers, so you also decided to go with staff rotation instead of dark flare?

Cuyler

Please forgive me as I'm not able to view the rotation vids on my work computer.....

Are you weaving light resto staff attacks? Is this purely ranged? Thanks

snoogadooch

You are doing the lord's work.