So how do you defeat a Sorcerer as a Templar?

AfkNinja

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

@zornyan This is why I was suggesting using Purifying Ritual in that other thread. I think it was you that listed it as a bad skill.

I think that was talking about stamplars and healing wasn't it? I admittedly didn't know about this bug until last night.

I don't recall you mentioning is specifically about stamplars. You had listed out a bunch of skills that you felt were sub par.

This is even good for stamplars. I fought one the other day that used Defensive Stance and spammed Purifying Ritual, along with his other attacks. My only real attack against him was Overload and then I had to keep swapping out to cast Defensive Stance myself and risk running out of stam to break his CC's.

Purifying Ritual is a very powerful skill right now.

You sure we wernt talking about purifying light? That skill is terrible

2 skills templars have use "purifying" as a prefix:

1) puryfing ritual
2) puryfing light

7skills use "ritual" as a suffix/prefix.

Makes it confusing when templars talk lol

Let's be honest, no one is using puryfing light in PvP

Someone tried tell me in another thread that it's amazing and the best burst damage in the game....

At least it's other morph gives minor spell resistance debuff.

Minor breach so sad. They need to add major breach to binding javelin.

CatchMeTrolling

One of the hardest fights or easiest fights and by easiest fights you will usually only beat a Sorc that doesn't know how to Sorc lol don't listen to the try hards, you're not going to beat a good Sorc, 9 out of 10 you're just stuck healing yourself and them stacking shields

CatchMeTrolling

Alucardo wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Has anyone tried shieldbreaker set against sorcs?

I stopped using it. It's not worth the hateful whispers afterwards. One guy said he was going to kill my cat. It's just getting too risky.

Not the cat, oh Jesus not the cat anything but the cat

Akinos

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

One of the hardest fights or easiest fights and by easiest fights you will usually only beat a Sorc that doesn't know how to Sorc lol don't listen to the try hards, you're not going to beat a good Sorc, 9 out of 10 you're just stuck healing yourself and them stacking shields

Pretty much this. I can fight and kill low rank sorcs with 5-10k shields all day, however as soon as the rank 24+ sorc with 20k+ shields that can still cast 12K+ crystal frags on me thru full impen gear comes around, I try not to fight them lol, it's just a pointless waste of time and potions.


I know several magicka templars that can beat those sorcs...including myself. However it's not consistent. Happens once in a blue moon. The other 99% of the time templars just get wrecked.

zornyan

Akinos wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

One of the hardest fights or easiest fights and by easiest fights you will usually only beat a Sorc that doesn't know how to Sorc lol don't listen to the try hards, you're not going to beat a good Sorc, 9 out of 10 you're just stuck healing yourself and them stacking shields

Pretty much this. I can fight and kill low rank sorcs with 5-10k shields all day, however as soon as the rank 24+ sorc with 20k+ shields that can still cast 12K+ crystal frags on me thru full impen gear comes around, I try not to fight them lol, it's just a pointless waste of time and potions.


I know several magicka templars that can beat those sorcs...including myself. However it's not consistent. Happens once in a blue moon. The other 99% of the time templars just get wrecked.

Pretty much, I LOL'd earlier , saw a sorc, toppling charged in, he streaked and stunned me, before my break free happened I was dead...death recap...overload...overload...14k each....GG

That was with 31k spell resistance, and 10% reduction in CP to elemental and 10% in magic damage.

TiiZzArD xx

All the people saying it's a losing fight need to relearn temps

TiiZzArD xx

Just heal through the damage, make them use stam until they can't break total dark/cc then burst. Repeat process until they are low on resources then use ultimate with burst.

zornyan

TiiZzArD xx wrote: »

All the people saying it's a losing fight need to relearn temps

Yes, everyone else is wrong, you are right.

Heal through the damage? A sorc using overload will do the same damage as a breath of life crit, who's going to run out of resources first, the templar spamming a heal that costs several thousand magicka, or the sorcerer spamming ultimate light attacks?

What burst damage do mag temps have? Puncturing sweeps and biting jabs don't work on shields , so what's this amazing burst damage we have them? Because everything we have is a channel, which is not burst.

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

TiiZzArD xx wrote: »

All the people saying it's a losing fight need to relearn temps

Yes, everyone else is wrong, you are right.

Heal through the damage? A sorc using overload will do the same damage as a breath of life crit, who's going to run out of resources first, the templar spamming a heal that costs several thousand magicka, or the sorcerer spamming ultimate light attacks?

What burst damage do mag temps have? Puncturing sweeps and biting jabs don't work on shields , so what's this amazing burst damage we have them? Because everything we have is a channel, which is not burst.

His defense, he said ulti burst.

Our defense: its ulti, light weave, jabs, light, jabs till ulti then ulti again. Lol

Wreuntzylla

Ezareth wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Go 28m22s into this video if you are a Stamplar. If you are a Magicka Temp, don't waste your time(yeh it is doable, but if the Sorc is going, it will take 30 minutes.)

There's some sound advice in his video(Especially the draining stamina part) but that sorc he fights isn't very good (dies in <30 seconds to me) so take it all with a grain of salt. People who try fighting that way against a good sorc using that build are in for a world of hurt. Other than Crystal frags the sorc has no CC and the only time he applies pressure he runs the templar out of stam and puts him on the defense. I'm not sure after why he goes defensive but from what I saw of his overload hitting the temp his spell damage or gearing has to be atrocious.

A good magicka templar will have a far easier time fighting a good magicka sorc in an open field fight like that compared to a Stamina templar.

Probably all correct, mut easier time is relative.

I think any templar will lose to a decent sorc, but on the other hand, I think one templar is worth two good sorcs in small group play. Pick your poison.

zornyan wrote: »

TiiZzArD xx wrote: »

All the people saying it's a losing fight need to relearn temps

Yes, everyone else is wrong, you are right.

Heal through the damage? A sorc using overload will do the same damage as a breath of life crit, who's going to run out of resources first, the templar spamming a heal that costs several thousand magicka, or the sorcerer spamming ultimate light attacks?

What burst damage do mag temps have? Puncturing sweeps and biting jabs don't work on shields , so what's this amazing burst damage we have them? Because everything we have is a channel, which is not burst.

I would never play my templar if defensive stance and bats weren't in the game. Seriously, learn to love 99% of overload spammers. It's the ONLY time I wish the reflect did not come with a stun.

zornyan

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Go 28m22s into this video if you are a Stamplar. If you are a Magicka Temp, don't waste your time(yeh it is doable, but if the Sorc is going, it will take 30 minutes.)

There's some sound advice in his video(Especially the draining stamina part) but that sorc he fights isn't very good (dies in <30 seconds to me) so take it all with a grain of salt. People who try fighting that way against a good sorc using that build are in for a world of hurt. Other than Crystal frags the sorc has no CC and the only time he applies pressure he runs the templar out of stam and puts him on the defense. I'm not sure after why he goes defensive but from what I saw of his overload hitting the temp his spell damage or gearing has to be atrocious.

A good magicka templar will have a far easier time fighting a good magicka sorc in an open field fight like that compared to a Stamina templar.

Probably all correct, mut easier time is relative.

I think any templar will lose to a decent sorc, but on the other hand, I think one templar is worth two good sorcs in small group play. Pick your poison.

zornyan wrote: »

TiiZzArD xx wrote: »

All the people saying it's a losing fight need to relearn temps

Yes, everyone else is wrong, you are right.

Heal through the damage? A sorc using overload will do the same damage as a breath of life crit, who's going to run out of resources first, the templar spamming a heal that costs several thousand magicka, or the sorcerer spamming ultimate light attacks?

What burst damage do mag temps have? Puncturing sweeps and biting jabs don't work on shields , so what's this amazing burst damage we have them? Because everything we have is a channel, which is not burst.

I would never play my templar if defensive stance and bats weren't in the game. Seriously, learn to love 99% of overload spammers. It's the ONLY time I wish the reflect did not come with a stun.

Unless like Ezareth and many others I see using defensive stance, which means all those overloads will be coming right back at you.

I love being a vamp, but it's suicide now days, it's making me think about curing it on all my characters, v
Camo hunter procs and dawnbreaker just plain hurt

Joy_Division

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

@zornyan This is why I was suggesting using Purifying Ritual in that other thread. I think it was you that listed it as a bad skill.

I think that was talking about stamplars and healing wasn't it? I admittedly didn't know about this bug until last night.

No, no, no. With Radiant Destruction now being dodgable, toppling charge having failed to worked consistently in like forever, the not-so-sneaky cast time introduced to breath of life, power of the light not scaling with spell damage, and other assorted templar 'features" we have had to endure since launch, this is most certainly NOT a bug.

Ezareth

zornyan wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

One of the hardest fights or easiest fights and by easiest fights you will usually only beat a Sorc that doesn't know how to Sorc lol don't listen to the try hards, you're not going to beat a good Sorc, 9 out of 10 you're just stuck healing yourself and them stacking shields

Pretty much this. I can fight and kill low rank sorcs with 5-10k shields all day, however as soon as the rank 24+ sorc with 20k+ shields that can still cast 12K+ crystal frags on me thru full impen gear comes around, I try not to fight them lol, it's just a pointless waste of time and potions.


I know several magicka templars that can beat those sorcs...including myself. However it's not consistent. Happens once in a blue moon. The other 99% of the time templars just get wrecked.

Pretty much, I LOL'd earlier , saw a sorc, toppling charged in, he streaked and stunned me, before my break free happened I was dead...death recap...overload...overload...14k each....GG

That was with 31k spell resistance, and 10% reduction in CP to elemental and 10% in magic damage.

Overload isn't magic, only elemental.

Just think, if you had eclipsed him that first overload would have hit him for 14K instead.

Ezareth

zornyan wrote: »

TiiZzArD xx wrote: »

All the people saying it's a losing fight need to relearn temps

Yes, everyone else is wrong, you are right.

Heal through the damage? A sorc using overload will do the same damage as a breath of life crit, who's going to run out of resources first, the templar spamming a heal that costs several thousand magicka, or the sorcerer spamming ultimate light attacks?

What burst damage do mag temps have? Puncturing sweeps and biting jabs don't work on shields , so what's this amazing burst damage we have them? Because everything we have is a channel, which is not burst.

Plenty of templars heal me out of ult all the time. I explained earlier how you do that. 14K is a *crit* as well, not a hit. It's the templars that play offensive that I kill easily, the ones who utilize their strengths survive.

You need to use a dodge roll or some LoS from time to time against an overload sorc. Straight up trying to outheal is risky especially if he CC's you.

zornyan wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Go 28m22s into this video if you are a Stamplar. If you are a Magicka Temp, don't waste your time(yeh it is doable, but if the Sorc is going, it will take 30 minutes.)

There's some sound advice in his video(Especially the draining stamina part) but that sorc he fights isn't very good (dies in <30 seconds to me) so take it all with a grain of salt. People who try fighting that way against a good sorc using that build are in for a world of hurt. Other than Crystal frags the sorc has no CC and the only time he applies pressure he runs the templar out of stam and puts him on the defense. I'm not sure after why he goes defensive but from what I saw of his overload hitting the temp his spell damage or gearing has to be atrocious.

A good magicka templar will have a far easier time fighting a good magicka sorc in an open field fight like that compared to a Stamina templar.

Probably all correct, mut easier time is relative.

I think any templar will lose to a decent sorc, but on the other hand, I think one templar is worth two good sorcs in small group play. Pick your poison.

zornyan wrote: »

TiiZzArD xx wrote: »

All the people saying it's a losing fight need to relearn temps

Yes, everyone else is wrong, you are right.

Heal through the damage? A sorc using overload will do the same damage as a breath of life crit, who's going to run out of resources first, the templar spamming a heal that costs several thousand magicka, or the sorcerer spamming ultimate light attacks?

What burst damage do mag temps have? Puncturing sweeps and biting jabs don't work on shields , so what's this amazing burst damage we have them? Because everything we have is a channel, which is not burst.

I would never play my templar if defensive stance and bats weren't in the game. Seriously, learn to love 99% of overload spammers. It's the ONLY time I wish the reflect did not come with a stun.

Unless like Ezareth and many others I see using defensive stance, which means all those overloads will be coming right back at you.

I love being a vamp, but it's suicide now days, it's making me think about curing it on all my characters, v
Camo hunter procs and dawnbreaker just plain hurt

I have yet to fight another sorc with Defensive stance in months. They're all using the same garbage streak build with dual wield/destro or the old resto/destro now. The only other defensive stance sorc I see is running with me ( =

A double reflect can be dodge rolled if he is running it. The whole idea is to buy time and cost him ult until he's out.

Most overload sorcs like me have no or very little thaumaturge CPs so their frags and non-elemental attacks hit for much less.

zornyan

Ezareth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

One of the hardest fights or easiest fights and by easiest fights you will usually only beat a Sorc that doesn't know how to Sorc lol don't listen to the try hards, you're not going to beat a good Sorc, 9 out of 10 you're just stuck healing yourself and them stacking shields

Pretty much this. I can fight and kill low rank sorcs with 5-10k shields all day, however as soon as the rank 24+ sorc with 20k+ shields that can still cast 12K+ crystal frags on me thru full impen gear comes around, I try not to fight them lol, it's just a pointless waste of time and potions.


I know several magicka templars that can beat those sorcs...including myself. However it's not consistent. Happens once in a blue moon. The other 99% of the time templars just get wrecked.

Pretty much, I LOL'd earlier , saw a sorc, toppling charged in, he streaked and stunned me, before my break free happened I was dead...death recap...overload...overload...14k each....GG

That was with 31k spell resistance, and 10% reduction in CP to elemental and 10% in magic damage.

Overload isn't magic, only elemental.

Just think, if you had eclipsed him that first overload would have hit him for 14K instead.

My point was more that at near spell resistance cap, with another 10% flat reduction ontop of that it still hits ridiculously hard.

timidobserver

Ezareth wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Go 28m22s into this video if you are a Stamplar. If you are a Magicka Temp, don't waste your time(yeh it is doable, but if the Sorc is going, it will take 30 minutes.)

There's some sound advice in his video(Especially the draining stamina part) but that sorc he fights isn't very good (dies in <30 seconds to me) so take it all with a grain of salt. People who try fighting that way against a good sorc using that build are in for a world of hurt. Other than Crystal frags the sorc has no CC and the only time he applies pressure he runs the templar out of stam and puts him on the defense. I'm not sure after why he goes defensive but from what I saw of his overload hitting the temp his spell damage or gearing has to be atrocious.

A good magicka templar will have a far easier time fighting a good magicka sorc in an open field fight like that compared to a Stamina templar.

In my experience, it isn't that hard to prevent a Sorc from killing you on a Magicka Templar once you figure out that most of them use a similar flavor of the same rotation for burst, but it is hard to actually kill them. There is the damage shields, hardy, spell resistance, among other things bringing our damage down. On the other hand, stam builds have a harder time staying alive, but damage shields are the only defense Sorcs have against physical damage.

In other words, a Stamplar has a better chance of actually getting the kill in a somehwat reasonable amount of time. A Magicka Templar has a better chance of stalemating them or winning a 15 minute fight. At least this is my experience from maining a Magicka Templar and a very brief disastrous foray into being a Stamplar.

Edgar_Baerland

@Ezareth I love the insight from your perspective on this thread.

I'm a longtime Temp, I think you're spot on. I've done a lot of dueling and pvp (though I'm far from being what I would consider top tier) and I haven't stopped running Eclipse on my bar for a long, long time. It's just so useful when timed right vs sorcs, its basically your one tool to beat them. It's also INSANELY useful for double-reflecting meteors and dark flares and what have you back at DK's who put up scales. Also, some NB's don't realize it reflects their magicka skills back at them and they kill themselves.

Also there's no better feeling than killing a sorc with his own overload or crit frag. I said it on another thread earlier today, I think Eclipse is the most class-defining skill Templars have. I also think it shouldn't be CC-breakable, but that's a whole different basket of oranges.

When I beat sorcs, it's because I'm patient, manage my resources, and time my eclipses well. It basically (like you said) comes down to him running out of stamina. Every time I lose, it's when I'm rushing the fight, or if he takes me completely by surprise and I can't recover resource wise.

I actually really enjoy the sorc vs temp battles. I think they're tactical and fun. NB battles are usually either A.) he shanked me to death before I could recover or during a fear I cant CC break out of (dear god does fear last forever) or B.) I healtank out of his burst and keep enough stamina to not get feared and I grind him down. or C.) I survive his burst and start killing him and he stealths away and leaves me alone.

Anyway. Great posts Ez.

Essiaga

Ezareth wrote: »

Keep Eclipse up to drain them of stam and protect you from damage.
Purify off the crystal fragments when they're cast at you (they wont hit you) as well as curse if needed.
Run Sword and Board with defensive posture.
Use a dodge roll when needed when they aren't eclipsed.

LoS will also make you unkillable as a sorc must use bolt escape constantly to keep up with you as you run around a tree etc.

You can easily become unkillable by a great sorc with a defensively played magicka templar but you will never kill a great sorc without some great stroke of luck or him messing up and overloading his face off when you eclipse him. I can't recall ever being killed by a magicka templar without some sort of bug affecting me.

I've posted this like 4 times today but there is no counter to Streak and Shields (especial stacking).

Damage overcomes shields but as stated as a templar your greatest damage comes from Magicka Det which takes a good bit of zerging to obtain.

Streak ... yeah there's nothing. Expedition ... Sorc has that in Lightning Forms so they've got streak(s) on you. If they want to run they're gone. You have no root, not that it matters cause sorc can streak out of that. Your snare moves slow and can easily be side stepped and of course streaked away from.

I just think its funny when a sorc complains about cloak.

khemdog

Purify, Def Posture, Crit Rush, Wrecking blow... Repeat

Akinos

khemdog wrote: »

Purify, Def Posture, Crit Rush, Wrecking blow... Repeat

That works well...if your stamina. Not every templar is stamina, nor should they have to be in order to kill a shield stacking magicka sorc.

khemdog

Just offering simple answer to a simple question.
Don't hate, appreciate.

Minno

khemdog wrote: »

Just offering simple answer to a simple question.
Don't hate, appreciate.

His frustrated with fact magic templars are vet hard mode for no reason against shields.

Though you should have said your rotation is for stam templars.

Ezareth

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Ezareth I love the insight from your perspective on this thread.

I'm a longtime Temp, I think you're spot on. I've done a lot of dueling and pvp (though I'm far from being what I would consider top tier) and I haven't stopped running Eclipse on my bar for a long, long time. It's just so useful when timed right vs sorcs, its basically your one tool to beat them. It's also INSANELY useful for double-reflecting meteors and dark flares and what have you back at DK's who put up scales. Also, some NB's don't realize it reflects their magicka skills back at them and they kill themselves.

Also there's no better feeling than killing a sorc with his own overload or crit frag. I said it on another thread earlier today, I think Eclipse is the most class-defining skill Templars have. I also think it shouldn't be CC-breakable, but that's a whole different basket of oranges.

When I beat sorcs, it's because I'm patient, manage my resources, and time my eclipses well. It basically (like you said) comes down to him running out of stamina. Every time I lose, it's when I'm rushing the fight, or if he takes me completely by surprise and I can't recover resource wise.

I actually really enjoy the sorc vs temp battles. I think they're tactical and fun. NB battles are usually either A.) he shanked me to death before I could recover or during a fear I cant CC break out of (dear god does fear last forever) or B.) I healtank out of his burst and keep enough stamina to not get feared and I grind him down. or C.) I survive his burst and start killing him and he stealths away and leaves me alone.

Anyway. Great posts Ez.

Well I just thought I'd mention I lost to my first templar in ages. It was Kodi's stamina templar and he had an amazing build utilizing Javelins. I was bugged out the first time he killed me and couldn't get into or cast overload but I ran into him a little later and he drained me of stamina with the javelin knockback enough to finally kill me. He's an impressive dueler and 1vXer so props to him for that. I ended up having to respec out of my vMSA PvE build because of that as Not having any points into Mooncalf or Tumbling as a sorc makes CC stam drain impossible to counter. I need to review the video because it appeared to me that several of my overloads hit him but did no damage. It's possible he was using evasion though.

Magicka templar...I just don't see it happening still.

RinaldoGandolphi

Honestly, The best Templar spec IMO that has a chance against Sorc's is a Destro/Resto Templar based on Divine Cross builds. The Aedric Spear Templar will never really beat a good Sorc because Jabs just gives free CC Immunity to the Sorc, won't penetrate his shields, and Harness Magicka just gives him magic back to kill you.

the Templar is better off playing defensive and utilizing Crushing Shock...Crushing Shock is stupidly good, counts as 3 hits against DK Scales if im not mistaken, and even if you Defensive Posture it, you still take 2 hits unless this was fixed, if not it can be a huge stamina drain.

This allows the Templar to LOS and poke the Sorc from range. Of course Ball of Lighting Sorc will be harder to do this too, but its possible. It will also be easier to get off Dark Flares and Eclipses while playing more of a ranged caster. Its far easier to play defensive this way and at the right moment time a good hard CC when you sure you can bust his shields to kill him. Channelled Focus is one great skill for Templars to use.

Understand though in most cases killing the Sorc won't be possible, but you can play defensive enough to the point he won';t be able to kill you either if the fight takes place in favorable terrain conditions. A very good magic Templar can stalemate the fight if he plays it correctly...You can Stack Radiant Ward + Harness Magicka + Healing Ward to give the Sorc a taste of his own shield Stacking combo.

The Sorc has more burst then the Templar, the Templar has more tankiness then the Sorc (not counting damage shields) and more healing, if played right the Templar may not kill the Sorc, but he can survive the encounter and take the best shots the Sorc levied at him and walk away from it, and that can be a win in itself.

the Sorc is just a plain better offensive class, Templar's best chance is what Ezareth said which is playing the encounter more defensibly, just my take.

bardx86

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Ezareth I love the insight from your perspective on this thread.

I'm a longtime Temp, I think you're spot on. I've done a lot of dueling and pvp (though I'm far from being what I would consider top tier) and I haven't stopped running Eclipse on my bar for a long, long time. It's just so useful when timed right vs sorcs, its basically your one tool to beat them. It's also INSANELY useful for double-reflecting meteors and dark flares and what have you back at DK's who put up scales. Also, some NB's don't realize it reflects their magicka skills back at them and they kill themselves.

Also there's no better feeling than killing a sorc with his own overload or crit frag. I said it on another thread earlier today, I think Eclipse is the most class-defining skill Templars have. I also think it shouldn't be CC-breakable, but that's a whole different basket of oranges.

When I beat sorcs, it's because I'm patient, manage my resources, and time my eclipses well. It basically (like you said) comes down to him running out of stamina. Every time I lose, it's when I'm rushing the fight, or if he takes me completely by surprise and I can't recover resource wise.

I actually really enjoy the sorc vs temp battles. I think they're tactical and fun. NB battles are usually either A.) he shanked me to death before I could recover or during a fear I cant CC break out of (dear god does fear last forever) or B.) I healtank out of his burst and keep enough stamina to not get feared and I grind him down. or C.) I survive his burst and start killing him and he stealths away and leaves me alone.

Anyway. Great posts Ez.

I have to to agree as a sorc. Sorc vs temp has always be the classic battle even going back to EQ. i love the tactical nature of the fight.

Abob

bardx86 wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Ezareth I love the insight from your perspective on this thread.

I'm a longtime Temp, I think you're spot on. I've done a lot of dueling and pvp (though I'm far from being what I would consider top tier) and I haven't stopped running Eclipse on my bar for a long, long time. It's just so useful when timed right vs sorcs, its basically your one tool to beat them. It's also INSANELY useful for double-reflecting meteors and dark flares and what have you back at DK's who put up scales. Also, some NB's don't realize it reflects their magicka skills back at them and they kill themselves.

Also there's no better feeling than killing a sorc with his own overload or crit frag. I said it on another thread earlier today, I think Eclipse is the most class-defining skill Templars have. I also think it shouldn't be CC-breakable, but that's a whole different basket of oranges.

When I beat sorcs, it's because I'm patient, manage my resources, and time my eclipses well. It basically (like you said) comes down to him running out of stamina. Every time I lose, it's when I'm rushing the fight, or if he takes me completely by surprise and I can't recover resource wise.

I actually really enjoy the sorc vs temp battles. I think they're tactical and fun. NB battles are usually either A.) he shanked me to death before I could recover or during a fear I cant CC break out of (dear god does fear last forever) or B.) I healtank out of his burst and keep enough stamina to not get feared and I grind him down. or C.) I survive his burst and start killing him and he stealths away and leaves me alone.

Anyway. Great posts Ez.

I have to to agree as a sorc. Sorc vs temp has always be the classic battle even going back to EQ. i love the tactical nature of the fight.

It's tactical for the templar, not for the sorc.

dodgehopper_ESO

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Ezareth I love the insight from your perspective on this thread.

I'm a longtime Temp, I think you're spot on. I've done a lot of dueling and pvp (though I'm far from being what I would consider top tier) and I haven't stopped running Eclipse on my bar for a long, long time. It's just so useful when timed right vs sorcs, its basically your one tool to beat them. It's also INSANELY useful for double-reflecting meteors and dark flares and what have you back at DK's who put up scales. Also, some NB's don't realize it reflects their magicka skills back at them and they kill themselves.

Also there's no better feeling than killing a sorc with his own overload or crit frag. I said it on another thread earlier today, I think Eclipse is the most class-defining skill Templars have. I also think it shouldn't be CC-breakable, but that's a whole different basket of oranges.

When I beat sorcs, it's because I'm patient, manage my resources, and time my eclipses well. It basically (like you said) comes down to him running out of stamina. Every time I lose, it's when I'm rushing the fight, or if he takes me completely by surprise and I can't recover resource wise.

I actually really enjoy the sorc vs temp battles. I think they're tactical and fun. NB battles are usually either A.) he shanked me to death before I could recover or during a fear I cant CC break out of (dear god does fear last forever) or B.) I healtank out of his burst and keep enough stamina to not get feared and I grind him down. or C.) I survive his burst and start killing him and he stealths away and leaves me alone.

Anyway. Great posts Ez.

I would actually use Eclipse if it wasn't treated as a cc. The fact that it is treated as a cc means I can't use the skill if someone tossed any weak 'hard' cc on the Sorc. Additionally, the Sorc can very easily break the cc and carry on with plenty more overload shots at you. They hard counter your Eclipse skill, and you can't refire it back. I think its preposterous to say Eclipse is good in its current state. I think Eclipse has always had POTENTIAL to be class defining and good, but it has literally never met the mark of its intent. Personally, I'd much rather hit them with a defensive posture, and dodge roll if the sorc has to bounce it back. At least in this scenario I can rely on the skill and its enhancing my survivability in a moderate fashion.

Minno

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Ezareth I love the insight from your perspective on this thread.

I'm a longtime Temp, I think you're spot on. I've done a lot of dueling and pvp (though I'm far from being what I would consider top tier) and I haven't stopped running Eclipse on my bar for a long, long time. It's just so useful when timed right vs sorcs, its basically your one tool to beat them. It's also INSANELY useful for double-reflecting meteors and dark flares and what have you back at DK's who put up scales. Also, some NB's don't realize it reflects their magicka skills back at them and they kill themselves.

Also there's no better feeling than killing a sorc with his own overload or crit frag. I said it on another thread earlier today, I think Eclipse is the most class-defining skill Templars have. I also think it shouldn't be CC-breakable, but that's a whole different basket of oranges.

When I beat sorcs, it's because I'm patient, manage my resources, and time my eclipses well. It basically (like you said) comes down to him running out of stamina. Every time I lose, it's when I'm rushing the fight, or if he takes me completely by surprise and I can't recover resource wise.

I actually really enjoy the sorc vs temp battles. I think they're tactical and fun. NB battles are usually either A.) he shanked me to death before I could recover or during a fear I cant CC break out of (dear god does fear last forever) or B.) I healtank out of his burst and keep enough stamina to not get feared and I grind him down. or C.) I survive his burst and start killing him and he stealths away and leaves me alone.

Anyway. Great posts Ez.

I would actually use Eclipse if it wasn't treated as a cc. The fact that it is treated as a cc means I can't use the skill if someone tossed any weak 'hard' cc on the Sorc. Additionally, the Sorc can very easily break the cc and carry on with plenty more overload shots at you. They hard counter your Eclipse skill, and you can't refire it back. I think its preposterous to say Eclipse is good in its current state. I think Eclipse has always had POTENTIAL to be class defining and good, but it has literally never met the mark of its intent. Personally, I'd much rather hit them with a defensive posture, and dodge roll if the sorc has to bounce it back. At least in this scenario I can rely on the skill and its enhancing my survivability in a moderate fashion.

Remember eclipse is only a cc immunity if your opponent can break it free or effect fades. Otherwise you can pair it with a proper cc since it will still knock them down with a bubble around them.
Total dark (the increased dmg morph) also applies its dmg even if your opponent has CC immunity. The heal morph does not apply on your target if there's cc immunity. If used correctly, you can trick your opponent into thinking you are using eclipse wrong when in fact it's time bomb will still go off catching a much needed kill from afar (NB in stealth) or help with a mini-"burst" during a chaotic fight. If this morph is purged, it fires off early doing its dmg.

Minno

And if you want to watch your magicka during defensive healing, look into honor the dead to replace breath of life. If not a dedicated healer, the extra two hits are wasted resources (1v1 small group pvp.). This morph will return magicka when you are at 75% health (15% of cost every 2 seconds for 8 seconds.). Most situations in pvp render you at this percentage, and at lower heal you'll almost fully heal for practically no cost.

Is it viable in large group? No, you'll cycle too much through the "smart" healing for it to hit you. But in small group, you'll give yourself another return on resource cost without a reduction in heals. Against a sorc, you'll last longer since your heals will cost less.

driosketch

Minno wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Ezareth I love the insight from your perspective on this thread.

I'm a longtime Temp, I think you're spot on. I've done a lot of dueling and pvp (though I'm far from being what I would consider top tier) and I haven't stopped running Eclipse on my bar for a long, long time. It's just so useful when timed right vs sorcs, its basically your one tool to beat them. It's also INSANELY useful for double-reflecting meteors and dark flares and what have you back at DK's who put up scales. Also, some NB's don't realize it reflects their magicka skills back at them and they kill themselves.

Also there's no better feeling than killing a sorc with his own overload or crit frag. I said it on another thread earlier today, I think Eclipse is the most class-defining skill Templars have. I also think it shouldn't be CC-breakable, but that's a whole different basket of oranges.

When I beat sorcs, it's because I'm patient, manage my resources, and time my eclipses well. It basically (like you said) comes down to him running out of stamina. Every time I lose, it's when I'm rushing the fight, or if he takes me completely by surprise and I can't recover resource wise.

I actually really enjoy the sorc vs temp battles. I think they're tactical and fun. NB battles are usually either A.) he shanked me to death before I could recover or during a fear I cant CC break out of (dear god does fear last forever) or B.) I healtank out of his burst and keep enough stamina to not get feared and I grind him down. or C.) I survive his burst and start killing him and he stealths away and leaves me alone.

Anyway. Great posts Ez.

I would actually use Eclipse if it wasn't treated as a cc. The fact that it is treated as a cc means I can't use the skill if someone tossed any weak 'hard' cc on the Sorc. Additionally, the Sorc can very easily break the cc and carry on with plenty more overload shots at you. They hard counter your Eclipse skill, and you can't refire it back. I think its preposterous to say Eclipse is good in its current state. I think Eclipse has always had POTENTIAL to be class defining and good, but it has literally never met the mark of its intent. Personally, I'd much rather hit them with a defensive posture, and dodge roll if the sorc has to bounce it back. At least in this scenario I can rely on the skill and its enhancing my survivability in a moderate fashion.

Remember eclipse is only a cc immunity if your opponent can break it free or effect fades. Otherwise you can pair it with a proper cc since it will still knock them down with a bubble around them.

While true, it also kind of wastes the reflective potential of Eclipse's limited time since they aren't firing spells at you while stunned.