Round 7 Maelstrom Arena Needs Priority Fixing

Nifty2g

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Niftylicious that last video; go to you tube settings and slow the speed down to .25. Then watch and pause it.

at the 4sec mark you were 1meter outside of the stupid ring. Your buffs and debuffs at the time were:

. Green Feet Disease
. Empower
. Minor Sorcery
. Major Smarty Pants
. Major Sorcery

when the poison popped off you were 1.5meters away from the red ring of stupid and still got hit with weakened and volatile poison.

Then you died. If the red ring was widened to account for the actual radius of attack then the ring would be touching the arena wall.

I slo mo all of the vids put up on here it helps with analysis.

Hey thanks for taking the time to slow it down and grab analysis like that

SeptimusDova

Nifty you are welcome.
We can only react to what we see and what we know.
We assume that the aoe rings are accurate boundaries of damage
When in fact we see that they are nominal boundaries with a greater than 1.5Meter Diameter than what we are shown.
This in conjunction with high ping connections equals a lot of dead Nifty's and many others. Myself included.

Thank you for posting that video for now I know why I was dying. It seems that all rounds have bugs that effect some classes more than others. And the misleading red ring is a deal breaker for me. When they fix it I will be back. Until them I am going to work on other projects. I have yet to fully replenish my gold. So time to get to work farming and flower picking.

ryanborror

Perhaps the wrecking bite enrage exists as a mechanic to discourage aoe burning down the boss and caster so that if you're close enough you get rekt. Seeing as how most other content can just be burned through in this way

Nifty2g

ryanborror wrote: »

Perhaps the wrecking bite enrage exists as a mechanic to discourage aoe burning down the boss and caster so that if you're close enough you get rekt. Seeing as how most other content can just be burned through in this way

Not 100% sure what you mean by this but I don't believe so as you can't kill and the shielder as you'll instantly die anyway

ryanborror

I mean the first caster and boss together before the shield phase. Like to encourage doing most damage during shield phase or most likely a bug. I hadn't thought about using dark flare. Do you use during the shield phase too or do you try and position caster within sweeps range of the boss?

jrkhan

@Alcast
So, played this stage on a new character to give me a better perspective - this time as melee stam.

It actually didn't take me as long to learn as it did the first time around (of course, I already knew the mechanics, so I'm not sure exactly what that tells me)

On the one hand, the poison tics were much more punishing, as you said, you can only live a few seconds with vigor/rally.
However, I don't feel like this particular fight is any more punishing to melee than it is to ranged.

One thing that really does seem 100% avoidable, is taking enraged damage once one of the adds has been killed.
You simply need to make sure you don't kill the add at a time that will result in him insta gibbing you - don't kill the add right before the stomp, or when he's still in melee range. Create enough space between the boss and the add, (e.g. gap closing to the add furthest away from the boss) and you won't get hit by any enraged melee attacks.

I think the issue really is, that the poison dot tic is too punishing for stam builds (or conversely, relatively trivial for magika builds) anyone with harness magika + healing ward can heal through the poison even with a small amount of lag + being unlucky + disjointed hit box, while a stam build has much less margin for error.

That said, I'm still not sure on what grounds we should expect vMSA to be balanced -

I take it from your post that this is about being able to compete for the top score as either a magika or stam build?
(Since you've already got deathless runs as melee stam - it's clearly not that the stage is 'too hard')

While I agree that balance for leader board position is something to strive for,
I think there are far more glaring imbalances. Most egregious is the inability for tank/sustain builds to complete earlier stages of the arena due to dps checks.
Stage 1 and Stage 5 come to mind.

Nifty2g

jrkhan wrote: »

@Alcast
So, played this stage on a new character to give me a better perspective - this time as melee stam.

It actually didn't take me as long to learn as it did the first time around (of course, I already knew the mechanics, so I'm not sure exactly what that tells me)

On the one hand, the poison tics were much more punishing, as you said, you can only live a few seconds with vigor/rally.
However, I don't feel like this particular fight is any more punishing to melee than it is to ranged.

One thing that really does seem 100% avoidable, is taking enraged damage once one of the adds has been killed.
You simply need to make sure you don't kill the add at a time that will result in him insta gibbing you - don't kill the add right before the stomp, or when he's still in melee range. Create enough space between the boss and the add, (e.g. gap closing to the add furthest away from the boss) and you won't get hit by any enraged melee attacks.

I think the issue really is, that the poison dot tic is too punishing for stam builds (or conversely, relatively trivial for magika builds) anyone with harness magika + healing ward can heal through the poison even with a small amount of lag + being unlucky + disjointed hit box, while a stam build has much less margin for error.

That said, I'm still not sure on what grounds we should expect vMSA to be balanced -

I take it from your post that this is about being able to compete for the top score as either a magika or stam build?
(Since you've already got deathless runs as melee stam - it's clearly not that the stage is 'too hard')

While I agree that balance for leader board position is something to strive for,
I think there are far more glaring imbalances. Most egregious is the inability for tank/sustain builds to complete earlier stages of the arena due to dps checks.
Stage 1 and Stage 5 come to mind.

Eh I personally feel that VMA has too much RNG to it as a whole and it will take weeks/months to get your perfect run which kills a lot of the competition I think

jrkhan

Nifty2g wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

@Alcast
So, played this stage on a new character to give me a better perspective - this time as melee stam.

It actually didn't take me as long to learn as it did the first time around (of course, I already knew the mechanics, so I'm not sure exactly what that tells me)

On the one hand, the poison tics were much more punishing, as you said, you can only live a few seconds with vigor/rally.
However, I don't feel like this particular fight is any more punishing to melee than it is to ranged.

One thing that really does seem 100% avoidable, is taking enraged damage once one of the adds has been killed.
You simply need to make sure you don't kill the add at a time that will result in him insta gibbing you - don't kill the add right before the stomp, or when he's still in melee range. Create enough space between the boss and the add, (e.g. gap closing to the add furthest away from the boss) and you won't get hit by any enraged melee attacks.

I think the issue really is, that the poison dot tic is too punishing for stam builds (or conversely, relatively trivial for magika builds) anyone with harness magika + healing ward can heal through the poison even with a small amount of lag + being unlucky + disjointed hit box, while a stam build has much less margin for error.

That said, I'm still not sure on what grounds we should expect vMSA to be balanced -

I take it from your post that this is about being able to compete for the top score as either a magika or stam build?
(Since you've already got deathless runs as melee stam - it's clearly not that the stage is 'too hard')

While I agree that balance for leader board position is something to strive for,
I think there are far more glaring imbalances. Most egregious is the inability for tank/sustain builds to complete earlier stages of the arena due to dps checks.
Stage 1 and Stage 5 come to mind.

Eh I personally feel that VMA has too much RNG to it as a whole and it will take weeks/months to get your perfect run which kills a lot of the competition I think

That's a fair point - since RNG is such a heavy factor for determining scores, if you already have a stage on farm mode, I'm not sure that toning down difficultly is strictly necessary?

Zilch

I know this isn't related to stage 7, but has anyone else encountered the fire casters in stage 8 to be located elsewhere than their visual location? It makes them impossible to bash as melee and result in a wipe.

damtotb16_ESO

Dymence wrote: »

I don't know about the enraged bite thing, that's probably a bug I've never experienced, but the flowers are really no big deal if you just have awareness of your surroundings..

I've expiremented with this stage several times where I've just let the poison flower summoner live while finishing rounds, and the flowers never hit me. Just look around you.

Did you try that with melee class?

Nifty2g

jrkhan wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

@Alcast
So, played this stage on a new character to give me a better perspective - this time as melee stam.

It actually didn't take me as long to learn as it did the first time around (of course, I already knew the mechanics, so I'm not sure exactly what that tells me)

On the one hand, the poison tics were much more punishing, as you said, you can only live a few seconds with vigor/rally.
However, I don't feel like this particular fight is any more punishing to melee than it is to ranged.

One thing that really does seem 100% avoidable, is taking enraged damage once one of the adds has been killed.
You simply need to make sure you don't kill the add at a time that will result in him insta gibbing you - don't kill the add right before the stomp, or when he's still in melee range. Create enough space between the boss and the add, (e.g. gap closing to the add furthest away from the boss) and you won't get hit by any enraged melee attacks.

I think the issue really is, that the poison dot tic is too punishing for stam builds (or conversely, relatively trivial for magika builds) anyone with harness magika + healing ward can heal through the poison even with a small amount of lag + being unlucky + disjointed hit box, while a stam build has much less margin for error.

That said, I'm still not sure on what grounds we should expect vMSA to be balanced -

I take it from your post that this is about being able to compete for the top score as either a magika or stam build?
(Since you've already got deathless runs as melee stam - it's clearly not that the stage is 'too hard')

While I agree that balance for leader board position is something to strive for,
I think there are far more glaring imbalances. Most egregious is the inability for tank/sustain builds to complete earlier stages of the arena due to dps checks.
Stage 1 and Stage 5 come to mind.

Eh I personally feel that VMA has too much RNG to it as a whole and it will take weeks/months to get your perfect run which kills a lot of the competition I think

That's a fair point - since RNG is such a heavy factor for determining scores, if you already have a stage on farm mode, I'm not sure that toning down difficultly is strictly necessary?

I don't think damage is the problem, sometimes archers can get irritating, there are two times where that can get really messy. And when you get a xivkyn mini boss, ogrim and daedroth after each other. But you know that all adds to the fun, those parts can get messy but it's a fun challenge.
All the RNG involved though as it's a solo instance can just get really irritating, I personally can get around 465k if everything goes right but getting that score in it's current state is just too much work personally, way too much to work around and hope it goes right.
In my opinion the whole "time" factor needs to be toned down, I don't know what they can do but they need to make it not so based around time, need more strategy and more quick thinking involved to it

@ZOS I'd also like to see what you guys had in store for the actual final boss, because it's fact that Round 9 isn't the final boss, there are 10 statue heads in the main lobby and the Baron is one of them, he was obviously meant to be the last boss and that is why we are getting -15000 points upon completing, right? My only assumption as to why that is, is because the arena was designed to be a two person place, which is obvious with the amount of mechanics there are but the final boss probably required 2 people to do it.

TotterTates

Nifty2g wrote: »

In my opinion the whole "time" factor needs to be toned down, I don't know what they can do but they need to make it not so based around time, need more strategy and more quick thinking involved to it

This. So much this. As a stam build, I have zero chance of competing for top score... only because of the time wasted having to chase down mobs instead of blasting them from across the map.

Nifty2g wrote: »

@ZOS I'd also like to see what you guys had in store for the actual final boss, because it's fact that Round 9 isn't the final boss, there are 10 statue heads in the main lobby and the Baron is one of them, he was obviously meant to be the last boss and that is why we are getting -15000 points upon completing, right? My only assumption as to why that is, is because the arena was designed to be a two person place, which is obvious with the amount of mechanics there are but the final boss probably required 2 people to do it.

Interesting. I would love to see a 2 man arena.

Ezareth

Ted_Mosby_Architect wrote: »

I'm waiting for a certain AD sorc to come into this thread like every other one and say that it's working as intended lol.

Clearly it is working as intended.

Actually, the enrage mechanic attack after an add is killed shouldn't occur, that's a bug and should be fixed as far as I'm concerned.

As far as the ping and poison flowers and all that I can't really agree and it has nothing to do with being a Sorc. As @Dymence said, the flowers are extremely easy to avoid.

Here is a simple formula to ensure you never are hit by a flower as long as you don't break the formula (regardless of ping).

1. Memorize the Poison add timer so you have an idea (generally) when it is about to spawn.
2. When you see the portal begin to open for the Add (you should be looking for it around this time) make sure you're not near the explosion radius of any existing flowers.
3. Immediately start moving towards/attacking the add while the opening wave of flowers explodes (Only the flowers that were already up explode at this point)
4. Kill the add before the next wave of flowers spawns and explodes.

If you're getting 2 waves of exploding flowers before you kill the add, you're putting yourself at unnecessary risk. The second wave of flowers spawns and explodes much faster, and I can see how ping could make that more difficult but I haven't seen that second wave explode in a good month with the exception of me not following the above steps.

What I'm getting to is you just don't need to worry about needing time to dodge poison as it should *never* have a chance of being under you. Worst case is, if a flower opens up and explodes on you as you kill the poison add, you're a dodge roll away from cleansing.

Nifty2g

Ezareth wrote: »

Ted_Mosby_Architect wrote: »

I'm waiting for a certain AD sorc to come into this thread like every other one and say that it's working as intended lol.

As far as the ping and poison flowers and all that I can't really agree and it has nothing to do with being a Sorc. As @Dymence said, the flowers are extremely easy to avoid.

Yes, easy to avoid, I go near it to pop it and get hit when I'm far out of the radius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE7f1nCiolQ
Ping and the flowers are a huge problem.

Ezareth

Dracane wrote: »

However, I think the Arena does not need nerfs. Stage 7 is annoying, but still manageable if you pay attention.
I hate this stage, but there are worse. The worst arena is arena 2, no matter what. The boss mechanic is a joke and simply annoying, no other boss in the game annoys me as much.

I agree. Stupid and annoying fight. I've taken to trying to stand next to them to get them to use their steam attack so I can have more time DPSing them before then hide behind their shield. I think the whole fight only takes me 40-60 seconds but it is easily my least favorite fight (Favorite being final fight + stage 6 boss)

Ezareth

Nifty2g wrote: »

@Alcast
For everyone saying it's avoidable here is a perfect example of poison ticking twice (3 times actually in a second) along with poison spawning under my feet and having 0 time to move

Just going to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno @Seiffer and hope this is patched and hope that you guys are honestly not doing another maintenance before next year otherwise I'm personally done dealing with this bs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R419XzpWYC4

That wave of flowers never should have spawned. From what I can tell from the short clip you missed the poison add spawn and he was already on the second wave before you even attacked him. To me this is a strategic flaw. I'm not certain why you're so far away from the add with him being up and casting.

That said, I think your preferred method of attack (Dark Flare and it's associated cast time) also makes you vulnerable on this stage. You can see the speed reduction while you're casting actually screws you and causes you to get hit at the end.

Nifty2g

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

@Alcast
For everyone saying it's avoidable here is a perfect example of poison ticking twice (3 times actually in a second) along with poison spawning under my feet and having 0 time to move

Just going to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno @Seiffer and hope this is patched and hope that you guys are honestly not doing another maintenance before next year otherwise I'm personally done dealing with this bs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R419XzpWYC4

That wave of flowers never should have spawned. From what I can tell from the short clip you missed the poison add spawn and he was already on the second wave before you even attacked him. To me this is a strategic flaw. I'm not certain why you're so far away from the add with him being up and casting.

That said, I think your preferred method of attack (Dark Flare and it's associated cast time) also makes you vulnerable on this stage. You can see the speed reduction while you're casting actually screws you and causes you to get hit at the end.

You're dodging around the point, it doesn't matter if there were flowers there or not, it doesn't matter what skill I'm using. It doesn't matter what strategy I'm doing. Also notice the lives I was testing a few things.

Now to the video, notice how I'm hit by poison when I'm not even close to it, that is my argument. Ping has a huge factor when it shouldn't the poison is exploding far too fast, there is no reaction time for players with high ping because of how fast they made it hit.

Actually, you quoted the wrong video, that video is actually showing how poison ticks twice in this case it ticked 3 times in 1 second. The second video is to show the ping and how unfair it is for players like myself, if I get close to it to pop it I can't get out unless I roll dodge around wasting Stamina which probably isn't a good idea for when I need it.

jrkhan

@Nifty2g

I suspect the problem is, you are waiting until you visually see the flower has triggered before moving away. This is wrong, you need to move near the flower, then immediately start moving away.


I can count on one hand the number of things that don't insta gib me if I have a lag spike - I'm still not buying that this stage is more in need of fixing than stage 1 or 5, that completely prevent sustain/tank builds from proceeding.

I think if you removed the term 'priority' from the title, you'd get less disagreement.

Also, you sound like you might need some sleep:
You think the 9 stage solo arena was intended to be a 10 stage duo arena because of.. A plaque on the wall? ?

Ezareth

Nifty2g wrote: »

So glad I have decided to record.
ZOS fix this god damn round it's terrible. This is what I meant by ping and even then the hit detection is atrocious on these poison flowers. are you really going on holiday and leaving DLC like this? honestly? It's by far the most broken round

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE7f1nCiolQ

You practically walked up on that flower and with my low ping any time I get that close to a flower I get hit by it. I agree the latency makes the detection circle for you inaccurate but that was 100% avoidable. There is zero reason ever get that close to a flower.

The price of using dual swords is the lose of an instant cast high damage attack. I do 70% of this fight using Crushing shock and have zero issues with it unless I screw up. The adds die 100% of the time to a double crushing shock/light attack weave(<2 seconds). When I die, it is because of exactly what you did here. I derp into a flower and die to poison before I can cleanse myself. I do it for the same reason that you did it, because I'm rushing through the content as fast as possible to get the best possible time and that means cutting corners and taking risks. In this case the risk you took didn't pan out.


Yeah this stage is not easy, it's not all that enjoyable but every death is 100% avoidable with the right setup and strategy. I could do this entire stage without using a damage shield or overload using nothing but Crushing Shock and I'd be happy to record that for you if you guys want to continue down this "EZ mode sorc" nonsense.

Ezareth

Nifty2g wrote: »

JaJaLuka wrote: »

I stopped going in there due to ping related issues, like getting hit with damage before the enemies have cast anything.
That being said my experiences have me questioning round 4 the most. It's not that badly designed, but getting stunned before you see the 2h mage teleport is bad... and extremely annoying.
Round 7 strat for me was always, kill one minder, stand next to the other one and DPS the boss while in the bubble (his scream kills the other adds on the pedestals). As soon as his scream ends I'd kill the second minder, rinse and repeat on the next minder spawn. Eventually the boss dies. Before the boss, it's just a matter of killing adds while watching your feet for the flowers, yes it's frustrating at times as you've pointed out with ping issues especially when you have no control over your own death, but I didn't find round 7 the most irritating.

I'm not completely sure it's ping, I wasn't even near the poison's effect when it exploded to debuff me but I got hit my it, the same thing happens with Arrow Spray, their area of effect is much larger than shown.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Seiffer can you guys look into fixing this *eventually*

You got hit by the poison because you were too close to the flower and it exploded on you. The ping delay you have is the reason on your client the circle showed you never hit it but I guarantee at 100 ping if I get that close to the flower it hits me every time.

Nifty2g

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

So glad I have decided to record.
ZOS fix this god damn round it's terrible. This is what I meant by ping and even then the hit detection is atrocious on these poison flowers. are you really going on holiday and leaving DLC like this? honestly? It's by far the most broken round

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE7f1nCiolQ

You practically walked up on that flower and with my low ping any time I get that close to a flower I get hit by it. I agree the latency makes the detection circle for you inaccurate but that was 100% avoidable. There is zero reason ever get that close to a flower.

The price of using dual swords is the lose of an instant cast high damage attack. I do 70% of this fight using Crushing shock and have zero issues with it unless I screw up. The adds die 100% of the time to a double crushing shock/light attack weave(<2 seconds). When I die, it is because of exactly what you did here. I derp into a flower and die to poison before I can cleanse myself. I do it for the same reason that you did it, because I'm rushing through the content as fast as possible to get the best possible time and that means cutting corners and taking risks. In this case the risk you took didn't pan out.


Yeah this stage is not easy, it's not all that enjoyable but every death is 100% avoidable with the right setup and strategy. I could do this entire stage without using a damage shield or overload using nothing but Crushing Shock and I'd be happy to record that for you if you guys want to continue down this "EZ mode sorc" nonsense.

Again, you are completely bypassing the point right now

It doesn't matter if I need to get close or not, it doesn't matter if I'm using swords or crushing shock.

This should not be a problem, the poison should not have this range and the poison should not explode instantly. Stop going offtopic, sure it's my fault but the poison shouldn't be acting like this.

This is how far away I was before being hit at 4 seconds, notice my debuffs on me and how far away from the poison I am.



You can keep saying how I shouldn't be that close all you want but you are derailing from the fact that it needs to be adjusted and fixed obviously. It's becoming almost impossible to have this conversation if you keep bringing up things that don't matter to the main point

Ezareth

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

@Alcast
For everyone saying it's avoidable here is a perfect example of poison ticking twice (3 times actually in a second) along with poison spawning under my feet and having 0 time to move

Just going to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno @Seiffer and hope this is patched and hope that you guys are honestly not doing another maintenance before next year otherwise I'm personally done dealing with this bs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R419XzpWYC4

That wave of flowers never should have spawned. From what I can tell from the short clip you missed the poison add spawn and he was already on the second wave before you even attacked him. To me this is a strategic flaw. I'm not certain why you're so far away from the add with him being up and casting.

That said, I think your preferred method of attack (Dark Flare and it's associated cast time) also makes you vulnerable on this stage. You can see the speed reduction while you're casting actually screws you and causes you to get hit at the end.

You're dodging around the point, it doesn't matter if there were flowers there or not, it doesn't matter what skill I'm using. It doesn't matter what strategy I'm doing. Also notice the lives I was testing a few things.

Now to the video, notice how I'm hit by poison when I'm not even close to it, that is my argument. Ping has a huge factor when it shouldn't the poison is exploding far too fast, there is no reaction time for players with high ping because of how fast they made it hit.

Actually, you quoted the wrong video, that video is actually showing how poison ticks twice in this case it ticked 3 times in 1 second. The second video is to show the ping and how unfair it is for players like myself, if I get close to it to pop it I can't get out unless I roll dodge around wasting Stamina which probably isn't a good idea for when I need it.

I agree the ticks of the poison are buggy, I agree that your ping screws you.

What I'm arguing for is a strategy so that you never have to worry about either of those in the first place.

What you're asking for (increasing the time before the flowers pop) in order to accommodate your latency makes the fight far easier for those of us who have no latency issues. I agree, fix the multiple tick bugs (I've had this insta-gib me as well) but I'm just trying to offer you some advice to avoid having to deal with any of this until these things are (hopefully) fixed.

Nifty2g

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

@Alcast
For everyone saying it's avoidable here is a perfect example of poison ticking twice (3 times actually in a second) along with poison spawning under my feet and having 0 time to move

Just going to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno @Seiffer and hope this is patched and hope that you guys are honestly not doing another maintenance before next year otherwise I'm personally done dealing with this bs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R419XzpWYC4

That wave of flowers never should have spawned. From what I can tell from the short clip you missed the poison add spawn and he was already on the second wave before you even attacked him. To me this is a strategic flaw. I'm not certain why you're so far away from the add with him being up and casting.

That said, I think your preferred method of attack (Dark Flare and it's associated cast time) also makes you vulnerable on this stage. You can see the speed reduction while you're casting actually screws you and causes you to get hit at the end.

You're dodging around the point, it doesn't matter if there were flowers there or not, it doesn't matter what skill I'm using. It doesn't matter what strategy I'm doing. Also notice the lives I was testing a few things.

Now to the video, notice how I'm hit by poison when I'm not even close to it, that is my argument. Ping has a huge factor when it shouldn't the poison is exploding far too fast, there is no reaction time for players with high ping because of how fast they made it hit.

Actually, you quoted the wrong video, that video is actually showing how poison ticks twice in this case it ticked 3 times in 1 second. The second video is to show the ping and how unfair it is for players like myself, if I get close to it to pop it I can't get out unless I roll dodge around wasting Stamina which probably isn't a good idea for when I need it.

I agree the ticks of the poison are buggy, I agree that your ping screws you.

What I'm arguing for is a strategy so that you never have to worry about either of those in the first place.

What you're asking for (increasing the time before the flowers pop) in order to accommodate your latency makes the fight far easier for those of us who have no latency issues. I agree, fix the multiple tick bugs (I've had this insta-gib me as well) but I'm just trying to offer you some advice to avoid having to deal with any of this until these things are (hopefully) fixed.

I mean thanks but I dont plan on running till it's fixed :P too much of a hassle to get to this round then have to stop

Ezareth

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

@Alcast
For everyone saying it's avoidable here is a perfect example of poison ticking twice (3 times actually in a second) along with poison spawning under my feet and having 0 time to move

Just going to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno @Seiffer and hope this is patched and hope that you guys are honestly not doing another maintenance before next year otherwise I'm personally done dealing with this bs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R419XzpWYC4

That wave of flowers never should have spawned. From what I can tell from the short clip you missed the poison add spawn and he was already on the second wave before you even attacked him. To me this is a strategic flaw. I'm not certain why you're so far away from the add with him being up and casting.

That said, I think your preferred method of attack (Dark Flare and it's associated cast time) also makes you vulnerable on this stage. You can see the speed reduction while you're casting actually screws you and causes you to get hit at the end.

You're dodging around the point, it doesn't matter if there were flowers there or not, it doesn't matter what skill I'm using. It doesn't matter what strategy I'm doing. Also notice the lives I was testing a few things.

Now to the video, notice how I'm hit by poison when I'm not even close to it, that is my argument. Ping has a huge factor when it shouldn't the poison is exploding far too fast, there is no reaction time for players with high ping because of how fast they made it hit.

Actually, you quoted the wrong video, that video is actually showing how poison ticks twice in this case it ticked 3 times in 1 second. The second video is to show the ping and how unfair it is for players like myself, if I get close to it to pop it I can't get out unless I roll dodge around wasting Stamina which probably isn't a good idea for when I need it.

I agree the ticks of the poison are buggy, I agree that your ping screws you.

What I'm arguing for is a strategy so that you never have to worry about either of those in the first place.

What you're asking for (increasing the time before the flowers pop) in order to accommodate your latency makes the fight far easier for those of us who have no latency issues. I agree, fix the multiple tick bugs (I've had this insta-gib me as well) but I'm just trying to offer you some advice to avoid having to deal with any of this until these things are (hopefully) fixed.

I mean thanks but I dont plan on running till it's fixed :P too much of a hassle to get to this round then have to stop

I just don't know how you can expect them to "Fix" it short of nerfing it to the ground. The damage *Must* be calculated on the server side or it opens up the possibility of exploits/hacks.

This can't be the only thing in this game that having a high latency in requires you adjust your strategy on. You see what I'm saying about the ping though right? On my screen as I said I would have hit the red circle because I couldn't avoid it due to being so close. On your screen your ping is giving you a delayed (visual) cue to the red circle but on the server side it has already hit you and if it was going to hit you regardless of whether you saw it or not I'm not sure how that can be your issue.

With 100ms Ping 90% of the time I try to avoid an expanding circle I get hit by it. For you it's probably 100% of the time. Is that really a big deal?

Nifty2g

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

@Alcast
For everyone saying it's avoidable here is a perfect example of poison ticking twice (3 times actually in a second) along with poison spawning under my feet and having 0 time to move

Just going to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno @Seiffer and hope this is patched and hope that you guys are honestly not doing another maintenance before next year otherwise I'm personally done dealing with this bs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R419XzpWYC4

That wave of flowers never should have spawned. From what I can tell from the short clip you missed the poison add spawn and he was already on the second wave before you even attacked him. To me this is a strategic flaw. I'm not certain why you're so far away from the add with him being up and casting.

That said, I think your preferred method of attack (Dark Flare and it's associated cast time) also makes you vulnerable on this stage. You can see the speed reduction while you're casting actually screws you and causes you to get hit at the end.

You're dodging around the point, it doesn't matter if there were flowers there or not, it doesn't matter what skill I'm using. It doesn't matter what strategy I'm doing. Also notice the lives I was testing a few things.

Now to the video, notice how I'm hit by poison when I'm not even close to it, that is my argument. Ping has a huge factor when it shouldn't the poison is exploding far too fast, there is no reaction time for players with high ping because of how fast they made it hit.

Actually, you quoted the wrong video, that video is actually showing how poison ticks twice in this case it ticked 3 times in 1 second. The second video is to show the ping and how unfair it is for players like myself, if I get close to it to pop it I can't get out unless I roll dodge around wasting Stamina which probably isn't a good idea for when I need it.

I agree the ticks of the poison are buggy, I agree that your ping screws you.

What I'm arguing for is a strategy so that you never have to worry about either of those in the first place.

What you're asking for (increasing the time before the flowers pop) in order to accommodate your latency makes the fight far easier for those of us who have no latency issues. I agree, fix the multiple tick bugs (I've had this insta-gib me as well) but I'm just trying to offer you some advice to avoid having to deal with any of this until these things are (hopefully) fixed.

I mean thanks but I dont plan on running till it's fixed :P too much of a hassle to get to this round then have to stop

I just don't know how you can expect them to "Fix" it short of nerfing it to the ground. The damage *Must* be calculated on the server side or it opens up the possibility of exploits/hacks.

This can't be the only thing in this game that having a high latency in requires you adjust your strategy on. You see what I'm saying about the ping though right? On my screen as I said I would have hit the red circle because I couldn't avoid it due to being so close. On your screen your ping is giving you a delayed (visual) cue to the red circle but on the server side it has already hit you and if it was going to hit you regardless of whether you saw it or not I'm not sure how that can be your issue.

With 100ms Ping 90% of the time I try to avoid an expanding circle I get hit by it. For you it's probably 100% of the time. Is that really a big deal?

So wait a second, you consider fixing it so it explodes in a shorter amount of time which will be making it so it explodes in the red radius when it is filled and not before it which will make it so you have to be standing in the aoe to be hit by it
that's a nerf to you? i see it as making it how it should have been

You understand that's part of the issue right? You're being hit by poison before it's cast time is over and it calculates you as being inside the red aoe. that is not a nerf that is a fix a nerf is lowering the damage, i haven't asked for that apart from two ticks at once happening which is also broken.

Alcast

jrkhan wrote: »

@Alcast
So, played this stage on a new character to give me a better perspective - this time as melee stam.

It actually didn't take me as long to learn as it did the first time around (of course, I already knew the mechanics, so I'm not sure exactly what that tells me)

On the one hand, the poison tics were much more punishing, as you said, you can only live a few seconds with vigor/rally.
However, I don't feel like this particular fight is any more punishing to melee than it is to ranged.

One thing that really does seem 100% avoidable, is taking enraged damage once one of the adds has been killed.
You simply need to make sure you don't kill the add at a time that will result in him insta gibbing you - don't kill the add right before the stomp, or when he's still in melee range. Create enough space between the boss and the add, (e.g. gap closing to the add furthest away from the boss) and you won't get hit by any enraged melee attacks.

I think the issue really is, that the poison dot tic is too punishing for stam builds (or conversely, relatively trivial for magika builds) anyone with harness magika + healing ward can heal through the poison even with a small amount of lag + being unlucky + disjointed hit box, while a stam build has much less margin for error.

That said, I'm still not sure on what grounds we should expect vMSA to be balanced -

I take it from your post that this is about being able to compete for the top score as either a magika or stam build?
(Since you've already got deathless runs as melee stam - it's clearly not that the stage is 'too hard')

While I agree that balance for leader board position is something to strive for,
I think there are far more glaring imbalances. Most egregious is the inability for tank/sustain builds to complete earlier stages of the arena due to dps checks.
Stage 1 and Stage 5 come to mind.

Ofcourse its avoidable, but broken mechanic is a broken mechanic.....

jrkhan

Alcast wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

@Alcast
So, played this stage on a new character to give me a better perspective - this time as melee stam.

It actually didn't take me as long to learn as it did the first time around (of course, I already knew the mechanics, so I'm not sure exactly what that tells me)

On the one hand, the poison tics were much more punishing, as you said, you can only live a few seconds with vigor/rally.
However, I don't feel like this particular fight is any more punishing to melee than it is to ranged.

One thing that really does seem 100% avoidable, is taking enraged damage once one of the adds has been killed.
You simply need to make sure you don't kill the add at a time that will result in him insta gibbing you - don't kill the add right before the stomp, or when he's still in melee range. Create enough space between the boss and the add, (e.g. gap closing to the add furthest away from the boss) and you won't get hit by any enraged melee attacks.

I think the issue really is, that the poison dot tic is too punishing for stam builds (or conversely, relatively trivial for magika builds) anyone with harness magika + healing ward can heal through the poison even with a small amount of lag + being unlucky + disjointed hit box, while a stam build has much less margin for error.

That said, I'm still not sure on what grounds we should expect vMSA to be balanced -

I take it from your post that this is about being able to compete for the top score as either a magika or stam build?
(Since you've already got deathless runs as melee stam - it's clearly not that the stage is 'too hard')

While I agree that balance for leader board position is something to strive for,
I think there are far more glaring imbalances. Most egregious is the inability for tank/sustain builds to complete earlier stages of the arena due to dps checks.
Stage 1 and Stage 5 come to mind.

Ofcourse its avoidable, but broken mechanic is a broken mechanic.....

I think the enraged mechanic is working as intended.
What makes you think engaged damage is broken?
If it takes minimal effort to avoid, and does not prevent you from completing the fight consistently, then what is broken about it?
If they try to tweak it, they introduce the risk of introducing things that are actually bugs.
If this even is a defect, some fixes aren't worth the risk of regression.

Nifty2g

Just bumping this because 0 of these changes have been added and round 7 is still completely broken, wonder if we will ever see some fixing on this god awful round

willymchilybily

I find round 7 one of the easiest later stages....(it was one of my hardest). But It is very class dependant. No speed buff, and no strong HoT/shield and its death after death.

should allow the Dot to be purged imo, or the mender shields should purge it for you. on a magicka DK with no movement speed its a nightmare. i imagine templar could be similar?

Deceptive_Yoshi

Was surprised at how easy this was once I started using a bow instead of pure melee but then got wiped at least 3 times due to poison spawning right on me when the troll mage shield was up and I was literally forced to choose between exploding instantly from the troll or dying to poison within 2 seconds.