So we can't use group finder?

Stubie

Friend and I started new characters. Got to lvl 10 and we're excited to be able to que up for a dungeon. He is a tank and me the healer. So que pops we enter only to find everything is vet rank 16. Now I'm not sure about you but we got absolutely crushed. I have two heals so far and were spamming them and we couldn't clear trash. We can't do it at normal lvl because console has no text chat so we can't find more. So I guess my question is at what lvl can you realistically use the group finder and do a scaled up dungeon?

dimensional

They really do need to work on the group finder scaling a *lot* more, right now there's much to be desired.

Stubie

Does anyone have an answer of a designed lvl to be able to que up? It certainly isn't lvl 10 that's for sure. Just wonder if we have to grind to vet lvls just to be able to run a dungeon.

dimensional

There is no answer to that question. It was "designed" for everyone to be able to participate.

Stubie

By everyone did they mean everyone with all skills unlocked? Because my friend has one taunt and I two heals. Seems like fighting a boss and adds that are vet lvl 16 isn't going to work. Ok I'll rephrase my question. At what lvl has the community realistically been able to finish a scaled to vet lvl 16 group finder que?

Holycannoli

Yeah it needs some work. You can do v16 if you're in your 30s or 40s just fine but not at level 10. You don't have near the skills necessary.

You have to form dungeon groups the old fashioned way for now: ask in chat like it's 2002.

Oh you're on console. You're screwed.

(I personally don't understand how anyone can play this game on a console without addons or text chat)

Stubie

There is no text chat so asking in chat is out. Other option is sitting outside the dungeon till we see someone and ask in voice chat. That didn't work last night and also excludes us from doing the other dungeons at that tier.

dimensional

Best you can do is email, post on here and on the ESO reddit about how badly this tool needs work and hope they will see more and more people asking for it.

Stubie

Or just quit playing. I have a vet lvl 3 Templar on EB but my friend wanted to make an Orc so I rerolled with him. I hyped up the game pretty good to him. I of course had no idea that we basically had to quest grind till lvl 30 and couldn't run dungeons. I told him they are the best part of the game because I truly believe that. I'm very frustrated right now!

dimensional

Yeah, quitting is an option but I assumed you actually wanted to work towards getting the issue resolved instead of walking away from it... lol

But I wouldn't blame you if you did!

But don't despair; you can still run dungeons with your friend. Just ask in zone chat that you need 2 other people for your group. It will be scaled to the appropriate level. Problem solved!

Stubie

Console has no zone chat

zornyan

Holycannoli wrote: »

Yeah it needs some work. You can do v16 if you're in your 30s or 40s just fine but not at level 10. You don't have near the skills necessary.

You have to form dungeon groups the old fashioned way for now: ask in chat like it's 2002.

Oh you're on console. You're screwed.

(I personally don't understand how anyone can play this game on a console without addons or text chat)

I agree, I've played since release on console and just started on pc as there's no endgame on console, the undaunted enclaves are near empty and it literially took me 3 hours to get a group for the pledge, then none of them had headsets and the tank didn't know what a taunt was clearly.

I logged off, loaded up pc version and bam, group in 5 minutes that I could communicate with.

Console version essentially has no end game

dimensional

Oh yeah I forgot about that.. hmm. Honestly what I would do in that situation is try to find a very active guild to join. You will likely not have any problems then, or at the very least the probability of you having guild members who can do dungeons with you would be rather high. There is a big section on the forum here for guild recruitment, and I think other community sites are out there as well.

Slurg

I don't think you need to get to vet levels to be able to do group finder groups - I've been in groups with people in the 30s and 40s who did fine. Just make sure you get the skills you want to use leveled up high enough to take advantage of the morphs and passives for the skill line first, get proper 5-piece armor sets, and don't forget to bring food, potions, and soul gems.

tinythinker

A big problem with the group finder tool is that there are never enough people of the right role to make groups for people who want them, so people tend not to use it, making the problem worse. The cross-faction permission and the scaling of lower level players was meant to help. But, yeah, someone under level 30, especially under level 20, typically isn't going to have the skills unlocked to be effective for vet dungeons. Not having a text zone chat to "lfg" in is even worse.

If there isn't an option for really low level players to disable scaling, and therefore only be grouped with people close to your own level, there needs to be one added ASAP.

NewBlacksmurf

Stubie wrote: »

Does anyone have an answer of a designed lvl to be able to que up? It certainly isn't lvl 10 that's for sure. Just wonder if we have to grind to vet lvls just to be able to run a dungeon.

Answer: Level 10 for the first tier of dungeons.

More on that answer......
Your current gear, abilities, passives level is scaled to VR15/VR16 but not scaled to IV for skills and max stats just because you are scaled to cap level.

-If you have on green and blues with some slots vacant or without enchants and without food buffs, then you will be vastly under-powered. Also consider you may be absent of Champion Passives so the dungeon scaling is working correctly and as it should. In addition to gear and champion points, your weapons, armor and class skills will be lacking until you progress more.

You would have to work on different strategies and more than likely communicate a lot in order to be successful. The thing is, that applies to everyone regardless of their level. If you grouped up with all level 10's the first tier of dungeons would be extremely hard and in some cases impossible. Consider there are two level 10's holding pass/fail roles. At level 18 the first tier of dungeons if you are in a group with 4 level 18's would be a lot easier as your characters have progressed.

Each tier of dungeons is going to be VERY hard when you first gain access to them and they will become easier as you level up but in many cases the scaling isn't whats causing you to fail completion, its the entire group and how you all play together.

First and foremost, understand what you can and cannot do and how effective your strategies are.
*DO NOT GO IN WITH A MINDSET that the healer is the only one who heals, the tank is the "tank" and that DPS are "DPS".
**DO GO IN WITH A MINDSET that the group needs to support one another to complete the encounter regardless of level variances, roles and experience with the encounter. If you can heal...do it, if you can taunt, do it where logical, if you can DPS do it when not healing or tanking.

Communicate the strategy with your group=mates.
Stay away from IC and and DLC dungeons until level 15+ and always understand that your gear is a huge part of the scaling as well as your stat choices.

Good luck

gbsteve

If you just want to get the dungeon done and the SP, then do this.

- Join group finder.
- Hopefully you'll get at least a V1 of the same alliance
- Leave the dungeon and disband the group
- Regroup with you as leader and go back in the dungeon. The lowest level goes in first.

Everything will be scaled to your level at 10.

I did this last night with a level 10. He needed the SP and I needed the daily (I got a Mercenary Motif from the chest). Took me about 20 minutes from getting the group to the end of the dungeon.

Depends on what you want it for. This may not work for getting XP but works for other stuff. Also, use your mic or no one will understand what in the hell you're trying to do.

NewBlacksmurf

gbsteve wrote: »

If you just want to get the dungeon done and the SP, then do this.

- Join group finder.
- Hopefully you'll get at least a V1 of the same alliance
- Leave the dungeon and disband the group
- Regroup with you as leader and go back in the dungeon. The lowest level goes in first.

Everything will be scaled to your level at 10.

I did this last night with a level 10. He needed the SP and I needed the daily (I got a Mercenary Motif from the chest). Took me about 20 minutes from getting the group to the end of the dungeon.

Depends on what you want it for. This may not work for getting XP but works for other stuff. Also, use your mic or no one will understand what in the hell you're trying to do.

(ASKING) wouldn't this cause all others not to get any loot iv level 16 or above?

I see it not being an issue for non-vet and for the Undaunted but other than that...I personally would disband until I hit max CP's

gbsteve

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

gbsteve wrote: »

If you just want to get the dungeon done and the SP, then do this.

- Join group finder.
- Hopefully you'll get at least a V1 of the same alliance
- Leave the dungeon and disband the group
- Regroup with you as leader and go back in the dungeon. The lowest level goes in first.

Everything will be scaled to your level at 10.

I did this last night with a level 10. He needed the SP and I needed the daily (I got a Mercenary Motif from the chest). Took me about 20 minutes from getting the group to the end of the dungeon.

Depends on what you want it for. This may not work for getting XP but works for other stuff. Also, use your mic or no one will understand what in the hell you're trying to do.

(ASKING) wouldn't this cause all others not to get any loot iv level 16 or above?

I see it not being an issue for non-vet and for the Undaunted but other than that...I personally would disband until I hit max CP's

Yea...if you're after gold and deconstruct gear. I was running it for the daily and got a purple motif. There are drawbacks but it works if everyone is getting what they want out of it. Obviously if one wants treasure dropped from mobs then they won't do it....can do that in non-group dungeons (or anywhere).

Stubie

I just don't understand the point of letting people que up for a lvl 10 or lvl 17 dungeon only to find out you have been up scaled and have zero chance or actually being able to do it. Just make the first dungeon lvl 30. It worries me that a company would think this was a good idea.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1

another facepalm for ZOS design.Queue scale dungeon to vr 16.Extremely hard if not impossible for lvl 10s to do a vr 16 dungeon.Only option is to announce to get players to join.Oh yeah!! console dont have text chat so announcement can reach wider.

Bravo ZOS /facepalm

AlnilamE

Stubie wrote: »

I just don't understand the point of letting people que up for a lvl 10 or lvl 17 dungeon only to find out you have been up scaled and have zero chance or actually being able to do it. Just make the first dungeon lvl 30. It worries me that a company would think this was a good idea.

Well, they used to be that way. Then nobody would do the tier 1 dungeons once they went past them in level. The ZOS came out with the pledges and updated the dungeons to scale to leader.

Then people complained the group tool wasn't working and in order to get more people to use it, they made it so that the dungeon is scaled to v16 and the players are scaled to v15 if you use the tool.

Now, when I read your OP, it sounded like it was just you and your friend in the dungeon. Were there not two other players there? What were their levels?

Yeah, a dungeon scaled to v16 may be a bit rough if two players are actually just level 10, but it should not be impossible.

Level 12 would be a good place to start (I believe that is the lowest dungeon level), and you should probably just stand outside the dungeon and wait for people to show up. If you are doing the Tier 1 dungeons, you can get away with 3 people rather than four, but it will be a bit more challenging.

Stubie

No we had 4 people. And we got steam rolled by trash mobs. My friend and I were lvl 10 which is the lvl of spindleclutch. The other two were lvl 21 and 34. They left so we tried again and got a lvl 41 and a lvl 25. Once again steamrolled on the first boss. I have exactly two heals on my bar at this point which wasn't enough to keep anyone up. Our dps was very low in comparison to the hp pools of vet 16 mobs. Like I said I played before and I have an EB temp at vet lvl 3. When I was leveling him you did dungeons at your lvl not scaled to vet 16 and I never had any issues. This is a very poor design and really punishes players that want to do content as it's unlocked.

NewBlacksmurf

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

another facepalm for ZOS design.Queue scale dungeon to vr 16.Extremely hard if not impossible for lvl 10s to do a vr 16 dungeon.Only option is to announce to get players to join.Oh yeah!! console dont have text chat so announcement can reach wider.

Bravo ZOS /facepalm

I don't think you understand or either just have a forum account and don't actually play dungeons anymore using the grouping tools.

The dungeon is no harder than normal...the scaling just helps us all play together and remove character levels as a limitation.

Other than that, its basically the same. Ppl who struggle with the grouping tools struggled prior but in many cases they didn't get a group and didn't realize how to run the dungeons.

NewBlacksmurf

Stubie wrote: »

No we had 4 people. And we got steam rolled by trash mobs. My friend and I were lvl 10 which is the lvl of spindleclutch. The other two were lvl 21 and 34. They left so we tried again and got a lvl 41 and a lvl 25. Once again steamrolled on the first boss. I have exactly two heals on my bar at this point which wasn't enough to keep anyone up. Our dps was very low in comparison to the hp pools of vet 16 mobs. Like I said I played before and I have an EB temp at vet lvl 3. When I was leveling him you did dungeons at your lvl not scaled to vet 16 and I never had any issues. This is a very poor design and really punishes players that want to do content as it's unlocked.

Level 10 isn't the level of spindle...

Level 10 is the earliest you can queue for the dungeon, Spindle is effectively level 18- 24 so you and your partner are 8 levels too low so its suppose to be really hard. If you have the undaunted quest, its orange for you. Wait until its yellow or green as its your first dungeon and I doubt you had 5 piece set gear that was purple with enchants and a food buff.

Stubie

Undaunted quest is lvl 12 not 18-24

code65536

Holycannoli wrote: »

Yeah it needs some work. You can do v16 if you're in your 30s or 40s just fine but not at level 10. You don't have near the skills necessary.

You have to form dungeon groups the old fashioned way for now: ask in chat like it's 2002.

Oh you're on console. You're screwed.

(I personally don't understand how anyone can play this game on a console without addons or text chat)

Yes, you can.

The mechanics of those tier 1 dungeons like Spindleclutch are no different at level 10 than at VR16. The only thing that's different is the scaling of monster health and damage, which corresponds with the scaling of your levels.

Will it be difficult to beat at VR16 when you're battle-leveled and don't have the skills/passives? Of course. But it'll be just as difficult if you're level 10 in a level 10 Spindleclutch.

Stop blaming this on "VR16".

dimensional

code65536 wrote: »

Will it be difficult to beat at VR16 when you're battle-leveled and don't have the skills/passives? Of course. But it'll be just as difficult if you're level 10 in a level 10 Spindleclutch.

Stop blaming this on "VR16".

That's simply untrue. I was clearing appropriately leveled, low level dungeons on my first toon without dying once, with just a group of pugs... the scaled vr16 dungeons (when playing at a lower level) are much more difficult when comparing, people dying left and right, not enough DPS to kill the boss, tanks are worthless. There's a lot that could be worked on.

Stubie

Yeah Dimensional is right. I also ran those dungeons before the change and had zero issues. It's a vast difference from normal to scaled to vet 16.

NobleNerd

They should have done similar to FFVIV's system where it encourages higher levels to queue for a random low level dungeon and gives them rewards for doing so. The system scales you down to the intended level of the dungeon, not scaling everyone to max level.

This helps out low levels looking to complete their dungeons and the higher levels get a daily reward for the queue.

I personally have not experienced any issue with the scaling, but I haven't leveled a really low level character in a while.

Hiero_Glyph

NobleNerd wrote: »

They should have done similar to FFVIV's system where it encourages higher levels to queue for a random low level dungeon and gives them rewards for doing so. The system scales you down to the intended level of the dungeon, not scaling everyone to max level.

This helps out low levels looking to complete their dungeons and the higher levels get a daily reward for the queue.

I personally have not experienced any issue with the scaling, but I haven't leveled a really low level character in a while.

FFXIV:ARR does a lot of things right. Their scaling system is vastly superior to ESO. ARR's combat can leave a lot to be desired but at least they are getting proper console support.

On-topic: Without text chat there isn't anything you can do to find a low level group other than skipping the dungeon and leveling up a bit more. While this won't solve the issue it will at least make it slightly more tolerable when you do try again.