Dear ZOS, please save the group dungeon player population! Included inside is how this can be done.

code65536

Justice31st wrote: »

Please make all current dungeon obtained items player have, bound to their current character and bank, and not be able to be given to their other characters. Also, this will help prevent people from using their OP sorceres to farm Maelstrom Arena for gear to use on their other characters, and will in return more diversify the leaderboards and bring more longevity to your game. Please help save the dungeon population.

That is... to be frank, idiotic.

First, this will just force people to farm the dungeon. Guess what? Dungeon farm groups don't use the LFG tool in the first place. It took me over 30 runs to get my VR16 Engine Guardian. This wasn't so bad because we were doing about three runs per hour. This, however, requires consistently smooth runs; it requires that all group members are experienced and that they know what to do. Dungeon farming groups, when inviting strangers, usually advertise that it's a farming run seeking experienced players so that not only do you get experienced players, but players who are willing to run the dungeon again and again.

It might force people to run a dungeon more, but you'd be deluding yourself if people will turn to the LFG tool for these farming runs because the fundamental problem of the LFG tool is that you don't know what kind of player you're getting: whether the person is experienced and whether the person will commit to multiple runs.

Second, BoP is the reason I don't give a damn about the Orsinium sets. It's not incentivizing me to run the content--it's incentivizing me to find alternatives (crafted sets). I will sometimes farm when there's no good alternative, but forcing people to grind for something does not make that thing fun nor does it result in a healthy player population. Instead, it leaves a bitter, resentful population that just avoid dungeons all together because they are tired of dealing with the BoP bulls***.

Finally, the problem you need to fix is the one of education/training. The game doesn't really teach you about tanks, healers, and DPS, and kind of just pushes you off into the deep end. Hell, I started the game as a walking disaster: a mostly-stamina-with-too-many-points-in-magicka character, in a hodge-podge of armor, with a bow and resto staff. Eventually, I learned about gear sets, the roles, how to actually play the harder content, etc., but not everyone learns or even knows where to start. What the game needs is a tutorial to walk people through the more advanced stuff, beyond what paltry guidance they give in the Wailing Prison. A better player base is what you need, not inane gimmicks to get people to use a LFG tool.

Justice31st

code65536 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Please make all current dungeon obtained items player have, bound to their current character and bank, and not be able to be given to their other characters. Also, this will help prevent people from using their OP sorceres to farm Maelstrom Arena for gear to use on their other characters, and will in return more diversify the leaderboards and bring more longevity to your game. Please help save the dungeon population.

That is... to be frank, idiotic.

First, this will just force people to farm the dungeon. Guess what? Dungeon farm groups don't use the LFG tool in the first place. It took me over 30 runs to get my VR16 Engine Guardian. This wasn't so bad because we were doing about three runs per hour. This, however, requires consistently smooth runs; it requires that all group members are experienced and that they know what to do. Dungeon farming groups, when inviting strangers, usually advertise that it's a farming run seeking experienced players so that not only do you get experienced players, but players who are willing to run the dungeon again and again.

It might force people to run a dungeon more, but you'd be deluding yourself if people will turn to the LFG tool for these farming runs because the fundamental problem of the LFG tool is that you don't know what kind of player you're getting: whether the person is experienced and whether the person will commit to multiple runs.

Second, BoP is the reason I don't give a damn about the Orsinium sets. It's not incentivizing me to run the content--it's incentivizing me to find alternatives (crafted sets). I will sometimes farm when there's no good alternative, but forcing people to grind for something does not make that thing fun nor does it result in a healthy player population. Instead, it leaves a bitter, resentful population that just avoid dungeons all together because they are tired of dealing with the BoP bulls***.

Finally, the problem you need to fix is the one of education/training. The game doesn't really teach you about tanks, healers, and DPS, and kind of just pushes you off into the deep end. Hell, I started the game as a walking disaster: a mostly-stamina-with-too-many-points-in-magicka character, in a hodge-podge of armor, with a bow and resto staff. Eventually, I learned about gear sets, the roles, how to actually play the harder content, etc., but not everyone learns or even knows where to start. What the game needs is a tutorial to walk people through the more advanced stuff, beyond what paltry guidance they give in the Wailing Prison. A better player base is what you need, not inane gimmicks to get people to use a LFG tool.

This is an great idea. Bind on character like on most MMO games is a very smart feature. It promotes a more populated dungeon group finder and creates more longevity. This also helps new players in the game who would like the chance to obtain an end game dungeon item by being able to get a group together easily and not have to play politics for a guild run.

code65536

Justice31st wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Please make all current dungeon obtained items player have, bound to their current character and bank, and not be able to be given to their other characters. Also, this will help prevent people from using their OP sorceres to farm Maelstrom Arena for gear to use on their other characters, and will in return more diversify the leaderboards and bring more longevity to your game. Please help save the dungeon population.

That is... to be frank, idiotic.

First, this will just force people to farm the dungeon. Guess what? Dungeon farm groups don't use the LFG tool in the first place. It took me over 30 runs to get my VR16 Engine Guardian. This wasn't so bad because we were doing about three runs per hour. This, however, requires consistently smooth runs; it requires that all group members are experienced and that they know what to do. Dungeon farming groups, when inviting strangers, usually advertise that it's a farming run seeking experienced players so that not only do you get experienced players, but players who are willing to run the dungeon again and again.

It might force people to run a dungeon more, but you'd be deluding yourself if people will turn to the LFG tool for these farming runs because the fundamental problem of the LFG tool is that you don't know what kind of player you're getting: whether the person is experienced and whether the person will commit to multiple runs.

Second, BoP is the reason I don't give a damn about the Orsinium sets. It's not incentivizing me to run the content--it's incentivizing me to find alternatives (crafted sets). I will sometimes farm when there's no good alternative, but forcing people to grind for something does not make that thing fun nor does it result in a healthy player population. Instead, it leaves a bitter, resentful population that just avoid dungeons all together because they are tired of dealing with the BoP bulls***.

Finally, the problem you need to fix is the one of education/training. The game doesn't really teach you about tanks, healers, and DPS, and kind of just pushes you off into the deep end. Hell, I started the game as a walking disaster: a mostly-stamina-with-too-many-points-in-magicka character, in a hodge-podge of armor, with a bow and resto staff. Eventually, I learned about gear sets, the roles, how to actually play the harder content, etc., but not everyone learns or even knows where to start. What the game needs is a tutorial to walk people through the more advanced stuff, beyond what paltry guidance they give in the Wailing Prison. A better player base is what you need, not inane gimmicks to get people to use a LFG tool.

This is an great idea. Bind on character like on most MMO games is a very smart feature. It promotes a more populated dungeon group finder and creates more longevity. This also helps new players in the game who would like the chance to obtain an end game dungeon item by being able to get a group together easily and not have to play politics for a guild run.

Did you read a single part of the post that you replied to? It does not promote a more populated group finder. It discourages a segment of the player base from running them in the first place, and for the segment that is forced (and, yes, that's what you're doing--you're forcing) to run the dungeons more, they are going to be doing so in farm mode and not using a tool designed for finding randoms who might not be experienced and probably not intending to farm.

It is an utterly flawed idea. Period.

OGLezard

I disagree 10000% with this as I have been farming vcoh for over 200 runs 2manning it and have not found a single freaking helm.... I have done the dailies on two characters (undaunted for the record) for the past 2 months (finally decided to start doing them) and have 39 spawn of mehpala shoulders but not one set of the neirenth shoulders I am looking for.

give us a token system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough is Enough zos

[Edit to remove bashing]

PBpsy

I would really want to see some numbers of how terrible RNG loot systems make people play more as opposed to just leaving immediately..I would be truly surprised it the proportion of quitters is not much much large.

On the OP.
ZOS should really hire this guy. He would fit splendidly in their "Terrible Ideas and Ways To Ruin What Was Once an Awesome Game" department.

Justice31st

PBpsy wrote: »

I would really want to see some numbers of how terrible RNG loot systems make people play more as opposed to just leaving immediately..I would be truly surprised it the proportion of quitters is not much much large.

On the OP.
ZOS should really hire this guy. He would fit splendidly in their "Terrible Ideas and Ways To Ruin What Was Once an Awesome Game" department.

LOL +1

G0ku

PBpsy wrote: »

On the OP.
ZOS should really hire this guy. He would fit splendidly in their "Terrible Ideas and Ways To Ruin What Was Once an Awesome Game" department.

an awesome for that

LadyNalcarya

Justice31st wrote: »

Please make all current dungeon obtained items player have, bound to their current character and bank, and not be able to be given to their other characters.

Please tell me you're just kidding. This is the worst idea I've ever seen on these forums.
It will literally kill the game for those of us who have multiple characters and like changing builds from time to time.

redspecter23

"Hey, who want's to run Spindleclutch?"

4 tanks put their hand up.

"No healer?"

"No, my healer doesn't need that helmet but my tank does"


Seeing a problem yet?
Encouraging a party made up of roles based on the helmet that drops at the end of the dungeon is just plain silliness (for lack of a more forum appropriate word)

Digiman

Sharkano wrote: »

Nonsense. Leave it the way it is.

Not even ZOS staff believe that, it's why they are still applying changes.

Trihugger

This guy is hilarious. Worst idea I have ever heard. Clearly this is NOT the way the Dev's are leaning thankfully either as they stated in their reddit QA that part of the benefit of moving to the new champion system would be that your newly 50 characters have all the CP of your main one AND can equip the same gear.

You're totally off your rocker if you think anything other than an incentive is going to increase usage of the group finder, and more than a once daily incentive like the pledges are.

Personally I liked the idea of BoE as this solves two problems:

1) RNG FUUUUUUUUU

2) People will have monetary incentive to farm dungeons and money definitely is a great motivator.

More than anything though, if you want dungeons to be more relevant dungeons should give more experience than my solo farming in the new Orsinium Pub Dungeons or IC. That would be a great start.

MrDerrikk

This would make less people run dungeons, as they would simply farm that single dungeon that they wanted the set from for that char, and after that they'd stop forever. Not to mention that people would only ever run the good dungeons and the dungeons that suit their build.

Imagine running CoA to find yourself in a group of all Dunmer DK fire mages, as thy're the ones who most benefit from the set?

Elephant42

So we have a situation where (according to the OP) not enough people _want_ to do dungeons.

Now in any situation where there is a dislike for doing something, there are two broad means to increase the rate of doing said something.

1. Put in punative measures to try and force people to do the thing they dislike in order to keep doing the things that they do like.
2. Change the "something" such that people like doing it as much as they like doing the other things they currently do.

I'll leave it to the reader to decide which one of the two the OP favours, and to think about which one is likely to produce the best results...

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

Are you kidding me?

Its hard enough to get the *** helmets as it is..

Blud

I would rather buy my gear and then go pvp. I don't really care for repeating the same pve content over and over (already need to if you want Undaunted passives). That's quite enough. I'm really happy I can share equipment between alts. I hate BOP systems.

timmayyyboy

Fruitmass wrote: »

I have to agree with Tinythinker about his second point and I support the idea of a Mentor program. I see no real harm in it as it would give people the chance to learn the ropes at their own pace and on their terms rather than simply throwing themselves into the thick of it all and hoping for the best. Which would be a welcome relief for many, including myself.

I don't mind being put into random groups, sometimes it can be rather fun and as a healer I see it as good practice. Nor do I give a rat's fanny about perfection. I cannot expect it from myself (I know I have off days) so I do not expect it from others. All I can ask of anyone else is that they at least try.

That being said though I've seen the ugly side of PUGs. I've been on the receiving end of someone's raging ego enough times across numerous games and it's made me more cautious about participating in new activities.

In ESO this puts me in an awkward position because I want to start doing Veteran dungeons but my interest is tempered by past experiences. I'm a fairly fast learner but it's getting the chance to learn is what worries me. I genuinely have no desire to ruin a run for others by slowing them down or making mistakes, nor do I wish to be berated for every mistakes I make.

As grateful as I am that the group finder is working now, there are flaws. One of the big ones I've encountered is that with the way the LFG tool is set up right now we're all being thrown together not knowing if the other members of our group are or are not experienced with their particular role, the dungeon or the difficulty. Many just take it for granted that that the answer is yes and there are a good (likely growing) number of people who refuse to take a gamble on that. As a result folks are dropping out or booting each other before they give or have been given a chance. This, to me, is a bigger issue than BoP/BoE gear or RNG drops.

Personally, if I knew I had the option to queue for a dungeon I didn't know and had never done to be matched up with others who were in the same boat as myself and there was someone available who was willing and able to explain the mechanics for boss encounters, without leaving me feeling pressured to rush through for the sake of a pledge. I'd feel much better about taking a crack at running vet dungeons.

I know there's always the option to seek out guilds for such things and I'm sure there are plenty out there that are helpful and inclusive. Unfortunately once again my own personal experiences have admittedly colored my expectations. As they say, once bitten twice shy. While I can appreciate that some people prefer guilds I've come to feel it's just not my cup of tea. While doing it on my own doesn't make it impossible to get practical, hands on experience it does make it more difficult.

Having something like a mentor program could do a lot of good for people who want to learn more about the game but are worried they aren't up to task or won't be given a chance. It can also do a lot of good towards improving participation with the LFG tool in that by helping players better understand the dungeons and encounters there will be an increased number of knowledgeable and experienced players available to group with and by providing and encouraging helpful, friendly interaction and atmosphere people will take away a less negative impression of grouping tool and those who use it.

I feel the same way about pug grouping. Its good one day and bad the next, to the point where ive just taken to asking in group chat before we start if theres anybody who hasnt run the dungeon and if they haven't, if they would like advice on the bosses instead of just setting us up for failure. Since I've started doing that ive seen a shocking number of high level veteran rank players saying that its there first time in the dungeon and alot of people are relieved and grateful that i explain the mechanics in a NICE manner. I never try to be an ***hole about it just matter of fact tone and try to be helpful. I like the idea if a mentor program. I would def sign on to do something like that

NBrookus

Was there supposed to be a /sarcasm tag at the end?

Because MOST dungeon runs I just get some decon and vendor trash. When I do get something good, the fact that I can potentially use a "wrong" helm or shoulders on an alt is really the only reason I'd bother to run most of the dungeons.

WillhelmBlack

Dungeon *** haha.

Dantonian_Rarstiana

I would much rather see some cross platform compatibility...
Even if they can't make the different platforms cooperate, at least let the EU and NA servers queue together...
Even during prime time it can be extremely difficult to find a group for a non-vet dungeon. And I queue as all 3 roles...

Then there is a problem of getting a group, zoning in, and finding that 1-2 of the members had immediately dropped. I have no idea why people do this, so I cannot offer any solutions.