Mark of the Pariah Set

DividendGamer

I have been wanting to test this for a group pvp build with my magicka templar, and run 5 julianos and 5 MotP(5 light, 2 heavy), dual sword / sword & shield.

caperon

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's been forever and a day since I'd seen hist bark. I'm pretty sure it does not give major evasion, but a diminishing dodge chance.

Xvorg wrote: »

shugg wrote: »

maybe the set was designed to fit with a non S&B tank, tbh i would love to tank 2h - I even raised it in the last Q&A they did on live where they mentioned that there could be an idea in there some where (not getting my hopes up)

if they could improve the mitigation when blocking with DW or 2H through the heavy armour passive then this set may have some worth.... till then 2h tanking vet prison is just a dream of mine

What about a magicka tank prone to use mage's guild equilibrium?

The loss of major fracture and major breach is HUGE.

Why should lose major fracture and major breach? I tank as magicka DK and my main taunt is pierce armor. Stamina taunt is A LOT cheaper than the magicka one.

Personofsecrets

I've been selling all of my Pariah. I almost feel bad doing it, but some people seem pretty excited for the set so it is good for them to have their fun.

Personofsecrets

jakeedmundson wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

I don't know if it's just wishful thinking.... but i still want to try this set when it comes to console.

smile... yeah.... My wishfull thinking was that the full bonus kicked in at 50-60% Health

That's why I took the effort to measure it.

And my last straw of wishfull thinking is that ZOS does a positive tweak on the set

I feel like it still has its uses... i know you've done your testing and i definitely agree it would be much better to get the full benefit earlier than 10% health left... but i think if you can get it v16 to replace a v13-14 footmans it could be usable.

Footmans only helps when blocking (which i only do in certain situations now because you can't block all the time) and pariah has some benefit there each time you take damage, regardless of blocking. I think if you can pair it with histbark v16 and only block heavy attacks and when at low health... could be good? I've never hit the resist cap yet... i haven't been able to make v15-16 gear yet so that's probably part of the reason. (i use footmans-13 ,histbark-14, and bloodspawn-16 all purple or gold quality)
I dunno... i'm just excited to give it a shot at least.

The gold footman jewelry comes very close on a stat to stat basis to purple v16 pariah.

Personofsecrets

shugg wrote: »

Tanking, heavy armour and weapon choice for tanking needs re doing. Tanking should be fun in pve, pvp and solo just as other roles are. At the moment its only semi fun in pve , just needs to be focused on by zos for a bit.

The last time the developers focused on tanking, a bunch of people decided to stop tanking @Wrobel . I wonder why.

hrothbern

Personofsecrets wrote: »

shugg wrote: »

Tanking, heavy armour and weapon choice for tanking needs re doing. Tanking should be fun in pve, pvp and solo just as other roles are. At the moment its only semi fun in pve , just needs to be focused on by zos for a bit.

The last time the developers focused on tanking, a bunch of people decided to stop tanking @Wrobel . I wonder why.

I feel with you

But perhaps the devs were really thinking that the Pariah set would be a good thing for tanks....
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence". from Napoleon or Goethe.
And perhaps our math on the Pariah is wrong?

and perhaps there is little effort done to think it out or pick some tank brains for something usefull.
The Maelstrom Shield quick fix, changing a tri-stat bonus into "just being part of another useless tank set", because of a technical issue, is perhaps an example of little effort done.

The original Maelstrom Shield stat increase for a tank is not an outstanding bonus, but is a non-imaginative good usable bonus. The right amount a matter of math to keep it comparative to other Maelstrom sets. The original intention was quite ok for me !!!

After the technical issue with the flawed tri-stat, the devs should have changed it in something befitting the grandeur of a Maelstrom Weapon !!!

I would grind gladly for an 8% increase of Max Health.
I would grind gladly for: wearing this shield makes every attack a taunt (free up an ability slot).
I would grind gladly for: so many other bonuses that are a real tank bonus.

Ishammael

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I've been selling all of my Pariah. I almost feel bad doing it, but some people seem pretty excited for the set so it is good for them to have their fun.

how are you selling it? the stuff is BoP.

jakeedmundson

Ishammael wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I've been selling all of my Pariah. I almost feel bad doing it, but some people seem pretty excited for the set so it is good for them to have their fun.

how are you selling it? the stuff is BoP.

eliisra

I think 3 pieces of purple Pariah jewellery VR16 would be nice. Just dont have the time and patience to grind those daily quests with non existent drop rate. But the set itself running 5 pieces as tank seems pretty pointless.

How often are you at 30-50% health as tank? I rarely drop below 90% myself. When I actually do dip lethally low in health, because I missed a block or dodge, having higher mits wont make a difference. You either get a quick shield or heal or you die.

I like the idea of using it on a 5 light build though. Seems really interesting.

hrothbern

eliisra wrote: »

I think 3 pieces of purple Pariah jewellery VR16 would be nice. Just dont have the time and patience to grind those daily quests with non existent drop rate. But the set itself running 5 pieces as tank seems pretty pointless.

How often are you at 30-50% health as tank? I rarely drop below 90% myself. When I actually do dip lethally low in health, because I missed a block or dodge, having higher mits wont make a difference. You either get a quick shield or heal or you die.

I like the idea of using it on a 5 light build though. Seems really interesting.

After discarding The Pariah set for a full tank for exactly the same reasons as you: a full tank MUST be at all times above 80% with enough Mitigation to handle the big blow.

I did a rough math on a similar idea as you: a LA or MA that becomes more tanky from this set, with a kind of "oh ***" protection.

But the math was miserable again:
Say we take a 5LA and 2 HA (2 HA + 3 Jewelry for the 5 of the Pariah)
So something like 15k Physical Resist at 100% Health. good for 25% Damage Mitigation.
You get some big blows and go down to 30% Health.
Pariah delivers at 30% Health approx 6k Resist. So total Physical Resist becomes 21k, good for 35% Damage Mitigation.
So let's assume further that your Health pool is 24k at full health.

In combat your health goes down to 30% and let's see what damage you can take with and without the Pariah:

1. without Pariah: at 30% Health of 24k you have 7.200 Health left. You die with a next blow of 9.600 incoming damage ((100%-25%)*9600=7200)
2. With Pariah: your Mitigation is now 35%. at 30% Health of 24k you have 7.200 Health left. You die with a next blow of 11.077((100%-35%)*11.077=7200)

So the difference in incoming Damage is 11.077-9.600=1.477 Damage.
Without Pariah, you would have needed 1.477*75%=1.100 more Health pool to counter the spike Damage.
So a classic "oh ***" armor set that gives you a heal (Song of Lamai), or a damage shield (Whitestrakes Retribution) is much much better because 1.477 damage or 1.100 Health difference are peanuts !!!


For Spell Resistance the math is slightly different because LA will give you additional Spell Resistance, but it is similar.

So.... I would say that this set is of no use at all.
Not for a full tank, not for a tanky build, not for a DPS LA build with some more oh *** mitigation.



EDIT added:
One could argue that other sets are no Jewelry sets and that Footman needs Blocking.
But the effect of the Pariah set equals to approx 1.477 * 75%= 1.100 more Health Pool to counter the Damage spike without the Pariah set. 1.100 more health from the 5 pcs bonus of a set is not much.

second EDIT:
If ZOS would let the 100% additional Resist already kick in at 60% Health, it would make this set feasible for tanky builds, especially tanky LA & MA builds

jakeedmundson

hrothbern wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I think 3 pieces of purple Pariah jewellery VR16 would be nice. Just dont have the time and patience to grind those daily quests with non existent drop rate. But the set itself running 5 pieces as tank seems pretty pointless.

How often are you at 30-50% health as tank? I rarely drop below 90% myself. When I actually do dip lethally low in health, because I missed a block or dodge, having higher mits wont make a difference. You either get a quick shield or heal or you die.

I like the idea of using it on a 5 light build though. Seems really interesting.

After discarding The Pariah set for a full tank for exactly the same reasons as you: a full tank MUST be at all times above 80% with enough Mitigation to handle the big blow.

I did a rough math on a similar idea as you: a LA or MA that becomes more tanky from this set, with a kind of "oh ***" protection.

But the math was miserable again:
Say we take a 5LA and 2 HA (2 HA + 3 Jewelry for the 5 of the Pariah)
So something like 15k Physical Resist at 100% Health. good for 25% Damage Mitigation.
You get some big blows and go down to 30% Health.
Pariah delivers at 30% Health approx 6k Resist. So total Physical Resist becomes 21k, good for 35% Damage Mitigation.
So let's assume further that your Health pool is 24k at full health.

In combat your health goes down to 30% and let's see what damage you can take with and without the Pariah:

1. without Pariah: at 30% Health of 24k you have 7.200 Health left. You die with a next blow of 9.600 incoming damage ((100%-25%)*9600=7200)
2. With Pariah: yoy Mitigation is now 35%. at 30% Health of 24k you have 7.200 Health left. You die with a next blow of 11.077((100%-35%)*11.077=7200)

So the difference in incoming Damage is 11.077-9.600=1.477 Damage.
Without Pariah, you would have needed 1.477*75%=1.100 more Health pool to counter the spike Damage.
So a classic "oh ***" armor set that gives you a heal (Song of Lamai), or a damage shield (Whitestrakes Retribution) is much much better because 1.477 damage or 1.100 Health difference are peanuts !!!


For Spell Resistance the math is slightly different because LA will give you additional Spell Resistance, but it is similar.

So.... I would say that this set is of no use at all.
Not for a full tank, not for a tanky build, not for a DPS LA build with some more oh *** mitigation.



EDIT added:
One could argue that other sets are no Jewelry sets and that Footman needs Blocking.
But the effect of the Pariah set equals to approx 1.477 * 75%= 1.100 more Health Pool to counter the Damage spike without the Pariah set. 1.100 more health from the 5 pcs bonus of a set is not much.

That's my only argument.... you basically have to choose a set with jewelry to match it with histbark or whitestrakes.

A purple/gold v16 pariah set will automatically have better stats and enchantments on it compared to footmans. that bonus is there all the time.
if you don't want to block as often... i would go with whitestrakes/lamai and pariah. (which i might just try out if i can find the pariah stuff)
if you take the good old fashioned block path... histbark and footmans still takes the cake with dodge chance and 12% block mitigation. (which is what i currently wear to tank)

hrothbern

jakeedmundson wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I think 3 pieces of purple Pariah jewellery VR16 would be nice. Just dont have the time and patience to grind those daily quests with non existent drop rate. But the set itself running 5 pieces as tank seems pretty pointless.

How often are you at 30-50% health as tank? I rarely drop below 90% myself. When I actually do dip lethally low in health, because I missed a block or dodge, having higher mits wont make a difference. You either get a quick shield or heal or you die.

I like the idea of using it on a 5 light build though. Seems really interesting.

After discarding The Pariah set for a full tank for exactly the same reasons as you: a full tank MUST be at all times above 80% with enough Mitigation to handle the big blow.

I did a rough math on a similar idea as you: a LA or MA that becomes more tanky from this set, with a kind of "oh ***" protection.

But the math was miserable again:
Say we take a 5LA and 2 HA (2 HA + 3 Jewelry for the 5 of the Pariah)
So something like 15k Physical Resist at 100% Health. good for 25% Damage Mitigation.
You get some big blows and go down to 30% Health.
Pariah delivers at 30% Health approx 6k Resist. So total Physical Resist becomes 21k, good for 35% Damage Mitigation.
So let's assume further that your Health pool is 24k at full health.

In combat your health goes down to 30% and let's see what damage you can take with and without the Pariah:

1. without Pariah: at 30% Health of 24k you have 7.200 Health left. You die with a next blow of 9.600 incoming damage ((100%-25%)*9600=7200)
2. With Pariah: yoy Mitigation is now 35%. at 30% Health of 24k you have 7.200 Health left. You die with a next blow of 11.077((100%-35%)*11.077=7200)

So the difference in incoming Damage is 11.077-9.600=1.477 Damage.
Without Pariah, you would have needed 1.477*75%=1.100 more Health pool to counter the spike Damage.
So a classic "oh ***" armor set that gives you a heal (Song of Lamai), or a damage shield (Whitestrakes Retribution) is much much better because 1.477 damage or 1.100 Health difference are peanuts !!!


For Spell Resistance the math is slightly different because LA will give you additional Spell Resistance, but it is similar.

So.... I would say that this set is of no use at all.
Not for a full tank, not for a tanky build, not for a DPS LA build with some more oh *** mitigation.



EDIT added:
One could argue that other sets are no Jewelry sets and that Footman needs Blocking.
But the effect of the Pariah set equals to approx 1.477 * 75%= 1.100 more Health Pool to counter the Damage spike without the Pariah set. 1.100 more health from the 5 pcs bonus of a set is not much.

That's my only argument.... you basically have to choose a set with jewelry to match it with histbark or whitestrakes.

A purple/gold v16 pariah set will automatically have better stats and enchantments on it compared to footmans. that bonus is there all the time.
if you don't want to block as often... i would go with whitestrakes/lamai and pariah. (which i might just try out if i can find the pariah stuff)
if you take the good old fashioned block path... histbark and footmans still takes the cake with dodge chance and 12% block mitigation. (which is what i currently wear to tank)

Smile.... I did already an EDIT 2 on that Jewelry set argument. You want the 5-5-2 set up. I understand.
But 1.100 Health pool difference as "true value" of 5pcs bonus of this set is too small a benefit.
Footman will easily be better if you block 25% of the time or more. Even the Healer set and Warlock offer more. And most likely any break up of your 5pcs Jewelry set, with e.g IC Jewelry will be better. Or a 5-4-3.
I did rough Math's on that as well.

hrothbern

But what really annoys me is that only after these silly math calculations it turns out that, a from the surface obvious jewelry tank set, is a suboptimal choice.

Normal players, that like to be tank or tanky should be able to choose from viable choices offered, without the small print of the math.

On the surface Pariah looks great for tanky, so it should be great for tanky.
ZOS only needs to tweak the set a bit, to make that true.

jakeedmundson

hrothbern wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I think 3 pieces of purple Pariah jewellery VR16 would be nice. Just dont have the time and patience to grind those daily quests with non existent drop rate. But the set itself running 5 pieces as tank seems pretty pointless.

How often are you at 30-50% health as tank? I rarely drop below 90% myself. When I actually do dip lethally low in health, because I missed a block or dodge, having higher mits wont make a difference. You either get a quick shield or heal or you die.

I like the idea of using it on a 5 light build though. Seems really interesting.

After discarding The Pariah set for a full tank for exactly the same reasons as you: a full tank MUST be at all times above 80% with enough Mitigation to handle the big blow.

I did a rough math on a similar idea as you: a LA or MA that becomes more tanky from this set, with a kind of "oh ***" protection.

But the math was miserable again:
Say we take a 5LA and 2 HA (2 HA + 3 Jewelry for the 5 of the Pariah)
So something like 15k Physical Resist at 100% Health. good for 25% Damage Mitigation.
You get some big blows and go down to 30% Health.
Pariah delivers at 30% Health approx 6k Resist. So total Physical Resist becomes 21k, good for 35% Damage Mitigation.
So let's assume further that your Health pool is 24k at full health.

In combat your health goes down to 30% and let's see what damage you can take with and without the Pariah:

1. without Pariah: at 30% Health of 24k you have 7.200 Health left. You die with a next blow of 9.600 incoming damage ((100%-25%)*9600=7200)
2. With Pariah: yoy Mitigation is now 35%. at 30% Health of 24k you have 7.200 Health left. You die with a next blow of 11.077((100%-35%)*11.077=7200)

So the difference in incoming Damage is 11.077-9.600=1.477 Damage.
Without Pariah, you would have needed 1.477*75%=1.100 more Health pool to counter the spike Damage.
So a classic "oh ***" armor set that gives you a heal (Song of Lamai), or a damage shield (Whitestrakes Retribution) is much much better because 1.477 damage or 1.100 Health difference are peanuts !!!


For Spell Resistance the math is slightly different because LA will give you additional Spell Resistance, but it is similar.

So.... I would say that this set is of no use at all.
Not for a full tank, not for a tanky build, not for a DPS LA build with some more oh *** mitigation.



EDIT added:
One could argue that other sets are no Jewelry sets and that Footman needs Blocking.
But the effect of the Pariah set equals to approx 1.477 * 75%= 1.100 more Health Pool to counter the Damage spike without the Pariah set. 1.100 more health from the 5 pcs bonus of a set is not much.

That's my only argument.... you basically have to choose a set with jewelry to match it with histbark or whitestrakes.

A purple/gold v16 pariah set will automatically have better stats and enchantments on it compared to footmans. that bonus is there all the time.
if you don't want to block as often... i would go with whitestrakes/lamai and pariah. (which i might just try out if i can find the pariah stuff)
if you take the good old fashioned block path... histbark and footmans still takes the cake with dodge chance and 12% block mitigation. (which is what i currently wear to tank)

Smile.... I did already an EDIT 2 on that Jewelry set argument. You want the 5-5-2 set up. I understand.
But 1.100 Health pool difference as "true value" of 5pcs bonus of this set is too small a benefit.
Footman will easily be better if you block 25% of the time or more. Even the Healer set and Warlock offer more. And most likely any break up of your 5pcs Jewelry set, with e.g IC Jewelry will be better. Or a 5-4-3.
I did rough Math's on that as well.

That's lame.... not your assessment... just the set in general now.
I'm on PS4... so i've only had a few hours to play orsinium. Whats the incentive to even play it? buy the dlc? continue with eso plus?... if all i'm going to do is grind for armor that isn't worth using?
They need to make some serious changes to the tank sets... tanks are already rare as it is. People shouldn't be buying DLC content and never using the items that come with it.
it's like they want to have dungeons be 1 healer and 3 dps always.
I even switched my dk to dps (which is also boring for a stamina dk) to play the dlc content....

Sorry folks but you're honestly dropping the ball.... stop pushing out new junk content and fix/balance what we already have.
Call of Duty games held my interest for longer than this...it hasn't even been 6 months for consoles.

hrothbern

jakeedmundson wrote: »

if you don't want to block as often... i would go with whitestrakes/lamai and pariah. (which i might just try out if i can find the pariah stuff)

Here is another disadvantage of the Pariah set.
It has a negative synergy with Whitestrakes and Song of Lamai, making it very disadvantageous to combine.

If your health drops below 30%, and you have Whitestrakes/Lamai, the "oh ***" heal will kick in immediately, so you will never be in the situation that a larger chunk of the Pariah additional Resistance becomes active.

Footman gives you the choice to combine it with Hist Bark (if you are not a NB) or combine it with Whitestraker or Lamai.
That's quite a choice for 552 tanky set ups.

Johngo0036

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I've been selling all of my Pariah. I almost feel bad doing it, but some people seem pretty excited for the set so it is good for them to have their fun.

How the hell are you selling a BOP item?

Weberda

Johngo0036 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I've been selling all of my Pariah. I almost feel bad doing it, but some people seem pretty excited for the set so it is good for them to have their fun.

How the hell are you selling a BOP item?

He's selling it to the vendors. Would get more value by deconstructing it.

Personofsecrets

Not true @Weberda , I am helping players get it.

@Johngo0036 , you open a chest, see an item you don't like, tell people in zone to pst if they want it for 10k, someone comes, they loot the chest, and then they give you 10k.

Forestd16b14_ESO

I wanna say it's good like I wanted to use the new armor master set from IC till the ruined it but I remember players can easily get 50%+ physical and spell res. So that extra res is kinda pointless when a player can literally cut it in half or 3/4 of what it originally was. So take my res for example my 25K physical gets turned into 15K or even 10K physical res.

So it can be good for PvE but PvP not so much. Maybe if ZOS added oh IDK a HA passive that increased res to penetration effects. Just saying. Maybe also add reduce break free back into HA passive too.

Personofsecrets

I think that this set would have been really good without the "missing health to get bonus" drawback.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I think that this set would have been really good without the "missing health to get bonus" drawback.

Or just change how it procs, like "gain X physical and spell resist when you take damage equivalent to 25% of your remaining health" (cannot stack, buff just refreshes). Having it proc on losing a % of remaining health, as opposed to total health, is important because it will protect you for as long as you are alive. If this were the case, I might be tempted to switch out my 3pc Willpower and 2pc Endurance for 5pc Pariah because then I could move my CPs from defensive to offensive constellations to help make up for the loss of spell power.

usmcjdking

Simply put, this set is utter garbage and under no circumstance would I find any reason to use it.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Chrlynsch

The fact of the matter is in PVE these kind of sets have some value as you can't be executed.

In pvp passives such as undeath are almost useless, due to exicutes. IMO they need to tweek a constellation to;

-reduce the range you can be executed by %

Aka 100 cp in this would make it so you couldn't be executed against.

Again these sets/passives would greatly benefit being tweeked around higher health vs lower health.

Petros

I wouldn't use this armor set, at all! ZoS is basiclly saying,"the closer you are to dying, the more resistance you'll get"

Plain and simple, a good tank should never ever get close to loosing 60% health at all. An amazing tank will barely hit 80%

NOW

If they removed hard cap from resistance, then this + unassailable would be the sets to use, but since there is a cap, DO NOT USE

shugg

Petros wrote: »

I wouldn't use this armor set, at all! ZoS is basiclly saying,"the closer you are to dying, the more resistance you'll get"

Plain and simple, a good tank should never ever get close to loosing 60% health at all. An amazing tank will barely hit 80%

NOW

If they removed hard cap from resistance, then this + unassailable would be the sets to use, but since there is a cap, DO NOT USE

This is right however i think this is tied into what @Wrobel is working on and these new sets are linked. For example a set drops in medium that buffs pet damage, i think hes going to make clan fear stam scale morph. I also think there going to remove armour caps or move the cap so with this in mind im collecting 5 bits to see what happens. I will on use if they did this.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

shugg wrote: »

Petros wrote: »

I wouldn't use this armor set, at all! ZoS is basiclly saying,"the closer you are to dying, the more resistance you'll get"

Plain and simple, a good tank should never ever get close to loosing 60% health at all. An amazing tank will barely hit 80%

NOW

If they removed hard cap from resistance, then this + unassailable would be the sets to use, but since there is a cap, DO NOT USE

This is right however i think this is tied into what @Wrobel is working on and these new sets are linked. For example a set drops in medium that buffs pet damage, i think hes going to make clan fear stam scale morph. I also think there going to remove armour caps or move the cap so with this in mind im collecting 5 bits to see what happens. I will on use if they did this.

That is true. With the removal of VR and possibly many other changes coming, Wrobel himself said in the recent subreddit AMA that players should hold onto their gear.

hrothbern

To keep this Pariah thread up to date:

I cannot recall any patch note,
but somewhere between Orsinium and now (TG just released) the 5 piece bonus of the Pariah set was buffed.

With Orsinium the Armor Resist for purple Vet 16 was 8.217

Now it is for purple Vet 16 an Armor Resist of 10.707

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Interesting. I also recall a recent patch note saying something about when the 5pc effect procs, but don't remember exactly what it was about. I still don't think I'd use the set though. Nothing gets around the fact you need full resists at 100% health.

hrothbern

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Interesting. I also recall a recent patch note saying something about when the 5pc effect procs, but don't remember exactly what it was about. I still don't think I'd use the set though. Nothing gets around the fact you need full resists at 100% health.

Agree @ThatNeonZebraAgain , the value for a taunting tank is still not there. Resistance at 80-100% Health is what truly counts.
It only starts making sense for really heavy duty tanking, with clusters of big blows, and when the 50% cap would be removed.

Perhaps for PVP ???

Nevertheless, ZOS did hear us and did some buff as well

Anyway....
I will run a new check with stepwise 90%-80%-....-20%-10% Health, to see if the proc effect has changed.