Mark of the Pariah Set

Boarder

Has anyone tested out how strong the 5piece bonus is? I am waiting to build my new tank gear set and I'm going to use Pariah jewelry for sure but not sure yet if I should use 2 pieces of armor to make the 5piece yet.

Oh_Skrivva

The set sounded good to me at first. It's really easy to hit armor/spell resistance cap and if your close to the cap already the set loses its value because you don't need much to send you over the cap. Another thing I'm not so thrilled by is the fact that you have to essentially sacrifice health to gain armor/spell resistance buff. I prefer to be at full health as long as possible if I am tanking. I'm just not sure if that sets bonus is worth risking the health. I was so excited when I saw the set at firstfirst. Because there really is little viable tanking gear sets. Me and a friend have been trying to come up with some new theory craft for a tank that uses these new sets. Just so we can break free of the cookie cutter builds. I hope someone can find new possible set up.

hrothbern

Mark of the Pariah:
Increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by up to 8514 based on your missing Health.

Does anyone already know when this buff kicks in and when you have the full benefit?

Is the full benefit achieved at 50% health or so, or do you need zero health before you get the full benefit?

Anhedonie

To put it simple this set is ***.
Feel free to deconstruc it and use armor master/footman.

Septimus_Magna

hrothbern wrote: »

Mark of the Pariah:
Increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by up to 8514 based on your missing Health.

Does anyone already know when this buff kicks in and when you have the full benefit?

Is the full benefit achieved at 50% health or so, or do you need zero health before you get the full benefit?

I havent done any testing but the tooltip suggests that it works linear.

Total health = 100%- X%
Missing Health = X%
Additional Physical/Spell Resist = 8514 * 0.X = 0 [min] - 8514 [max]

hrothbern

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Mark of the Pariah:
Increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by up to 8514 based on your missing Health.

Does anyone already know when this buff kicks in and when you have the full benefit?

Is the full benefit achieved at 50% health or so, or do you need zero health before you get the full benefit?

I havent done any testing but the tooltip suggests that it works linear.

Total health = 100%- X%
Missing Health = X%
Additional Physical/Spell Resist = 8514 * 0.X = 0 [min] - 8514 [max]

@Septimus_Magna,

thanks

Yeah.... I am afraid it is like you say, in which case it is not that impressive for me.

I have some hope that it would function more like Orgnum's Scales, where the full benefit kicks in at 60% Health.

jakeedmundson

That sucks.... good thing console tanks have something to look forward to
we get to use the same sets as always.... fun.

Weberda

If we go back to softcaps this set might get more scrutiny.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Sadly, the tanking sets in the new DLC are indeed very lackluster. Like @Oh_Skrivva pointed out, Pariah just doesn't make sense for endgame tanks where you need max resistances while at 100% health. Even Armor Master and Hist Bark aren't the best choice for all class/builds/playstyles, and it's common knowledge that the more physical/spell resist and other mitigation buffs you have, the less effective Footman is (can easily drop to ~3% mitigation in reality). Brands of Imperium and Leaching Plate sound cool in theory as well, but the time to farm them makes it not viable for the vast majority of tanks -- plus, you need good tanking gear to do that content to begin with, so if you can complete that content just fine, what's the point of the set you get from it then?

Septimus_Magna

hrothbern wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Mark of the Pariah:
Increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by up to 8514 based on your missing Health.

Does anyone already know when this buff kicks in and when you have the full benefit?

Is the full benefit achieved at 50% health or so, or do you need zero health before you get the full benefit?

I havent done any testing but the tooltip suggests that it works linear.

Total health = 100%- X%
Missing Health = X%
Additional Physical/Spell Resist = 8514 * 0.X = 0 [min] - 8514 [max]

@Septimus_Magna,

thanks

Yeah.... I am afraid it is like you say, in which case it is not that impressive for me.

I have some hope that it would function more like Orgnum's Scales, where the full benefit kicks in at 60% Health.

When you're tanking your health usually is full, if your health drops the healer should get is back up within a couple seconds. For tanking you want to have a bonus that works while you're full health and blocking.

Stamina tanks who use Shuffle or Immovable are really strong with 5pc Armor Master.

Magicka tanks are probably better off using 5pc Hist Bark or 5pc Willows Path (if you already have the major evasion buff).

Naslu

i tested it on magicka nb dps tank, and therefore it makes sense to equip like this:

2x rings of pariah, necklace of willpower,
Shild + sword of willpower,
3 armor pieces of pariah,
2pieces torug armor,
2pieces monster set what you like (for aoe : nerienth, single target molag, heavy ressource depending tanking: engine guardian).

sure you can mix up with others but in this special case (no fixed resistance from class skills like dk or temp) it makes sense to convert missing hard cap into dps potencial).

i agree : for other classes they may benifit from other sets more (due to natural resistences).

procs like this:
bonus from set is a base value granted (so gets buffed by cp's and other stuff on top)

90% health ~1000 +
70%health ~ 2500 +
50% health ~4500+
30% health - full bonus

jakeedmundson

Naslu wrote: »

i tested it on magicka nb dps tank, and therefore it makes sense to equip like this:

2x rings of pariah, necklace of willpower,
Shild + sword of willpower,
3 armor pieces of pariah,
2pieces torug armor,
2pieces monster set what you like (for aoe : nerienth, single target molag, heavy ressource depending tanking: engine guardian).

sure you can mix up with others but in this special case (no fixed resistance from class skills like dk or temp) it makes sense to convert missing hard cap into dps potencial).

i agree : for other classes they may benifit from other sets more (due to natural resistences).

procs like this:
bonus from set is a base value granted (so gets buffed by cp's and other stuff on top)

90% health ~1000 +
70%health ~ 2500 +
50% health ~4500+
30% health - full bonus

Would be nice to know the actual equation...
if it is like the linear suggestion earlier..... the set is worthless. you can't even get the full use from the set because you would have to be dead. Plus, the full amount would likely put you above the cap and it wouldn't help you anyway when you have 1 health.
I see this being more useful for some poopy hybrid build... use the jewelry and 2 pieces for the 5p set mixed with hundings or something for dps.

but if you can get the full bonus at 30% like you say.... it could be useful. I would go for this over the master armor set since blocking seems to be getting harder and harder to do.

one question though... does it scale with current hits? lets say you take a huge hit for 20k (putting you at 10k or 33% health)... is the damage mitigated DURING that damage? or does it not apply until after that? i'm assuming it would be after the hit, but just curious.

Personofsecrets

Hi @Boarder , I first recommend that you use set bonuses of 5-5-2 unless there is an extenuating circumstance. The reason for that is because it is the the most efficient way for gaining set bonuses and lends itself to getting you 2 'big' bonuses while also supplying you with a monster helm combo.

I also suggest that you stay away from the Pariah 5-piece bonus. It gives 12% damage mitigation, which is fine, but Footman's Fortune gives 12% damage mitigation as well and does so in a non-situational way. Use Footman's fortune for a full out tanking build where you need jewelry slots filled.

Personofsecrets

Anhedonie wrote: »

To put it simple this set is ***.
Feel free to deconstruc it and use armor master/footman.

Very true, but Histbark instead of Armor Master IMO.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Naslu wrote: »

i tested it on magicka nb dps tank, and therefore it makes sense to equip like this:

2x rings of pariah, necklace of willpower,
Shild + sword of willpower,
3 armor pieces of pariah,
2pieces torug armor,
2pieces monster set what you like (for aoe : nerienth, single target molag, heavy ressource depending tanking: engine guardian).

sure you can mix up with others but in this special case (no fixed resistance from class skills like dk or temp) it makes sense to convert missing hard cap into dps potencial).

i agree : for other classes they may benifit from other sets more (due to natural resistences).

procs like this:
bonus from set is a base value granted (so gets buffed by cp's and other stuff on top)

90% health ~1000 +
70%health ~ 2500 +
50% health ~4500+
30% health - full bonus

Would be nice to know the actual equation...

Pick your poison. No guarantee to be 100% accurate. TY @Anhedonie for the numbers.

Naslu

hist bark on nb tank makes no sense , cause on class skill wich is givin me minor res. givin me major evasion buff , too.
but like i said other classes, sure

hrothbern

got my last Pariah piece
tested with 3 blue Vet 15's (infused, divines, re-inforced), 1 blue necklace Vet 15 and 1 purple signet Vet 16.
Used Cold Harbour zombies for a slow diminishing of my Health

100% Health -> 22.794
90% Health -> 23.654
80% Health -> 24.652
70% Health -> 25.371
60% Health -> 26.000
50% Health -> 27.180
40% Health -> 28.040
30% Health -> 28.810
20% Health -> 29.774
10% Health -> 30.620

Additional Resistance is pretty much linear proportional to missing Health.

Nice to know

But at the range 80%-100% Health, where I want to be all the time, hardly a benefit

hrothbern

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Hi @Boarder , I first recommend that you use set bonuses of 5-5-2 unless there is an extenuating circumstance. The reason for that is because it is the the most efficient way for gaining set bonuses and lends itself to getting you 2 'big' bonuses while also supplying you with a monster helm combo.

I also suggest that you stay away from the Pariah 5-piece bonus. It gives 12% damage mitigation, which is fine, but Footman's Fortune gives 12% damage mitigation as well and does so in a non-situational way. Use Footman's fortune for a full out tanking build where you need jewelry slots filled.

@Personofsecrets ,
yeah... I am also a 552 man because of the "big" bonuses.
That's why I was so disappointed about the Maelstrom Shield !!!

First came the Jewelry of IC, that is interesting to do some more Damage & Heal. A bit more tricky because sustain comes more from the Heal and les from Mitigation. But nice to have to toggle to a bit more Damage if the situation allows for it. (I am a Mag Siphoning NB tank)
But that would break up the 552 set up.

So when the Maelstrom Master Weapons were announced INCLUDING a Shield I was at first thrilled, because 3 IC Jewelry + 2 Master S&B would in principle add up to a usefull 5. Not 1 "big" bonus, but agregating to a similar "big" effect.

Unfortunately the Shield Master tri-stat enchant was not on top of your own armor enchant, but turned out to be overwritten by your own enchant (If I understand the posts correctly upon this item)
The quick fix by ZOS to replace this 1 item benefit by making the Maelstrom Shield part of two other 5 sets, made the Maelstrom Shield completely useless for me. and by that the S&B Maelstrom, and by that the IC Jewelry !!!
ZOS could have replaced the tri-stat enchant also by a 5%-8% gain in Health (by my math the same value of the original tri-stat if you tweak a little bit with your Atribute points). Such a % gain in Health would still allow for your own armor enchant on top.

Of course there will be people who come up with the argument that you lose that additional health when you swap bars. But that does not really hurt a double S&B build that only swaps for the buffs on the off hand bar. The other possibility is to put Structured Entropy on your off hand bar.


Above is a bit of a wall of paper, but boiling down to the point I try to make:

Dear @ZOS,
As you can see outlined in this thread, the Pariah set has little value for a tank, the Maelstrom Shield is vanished.
Could you please reconsider the bonus of the Maelstrom Shield?
Allowing tanks to swap armor sets if the situation asks for a bit higher Damage needed and be of more use to their Group without sacrificing their Tank role choice (and go the DPS route)

usmcjdking

Absolutely the worst possible tanking 5 PC Bonus in the game.

Every other set will give you much better returns.

jakeedmundson

I don't know if it's just wishful thinking.... but i still want to try this set when it comes to console.

hrothbern

jakeedmundson wrote: »

I don't know if it's just wishful thinking.... but i still want to try this set when it comes to console.

smile... yeah.... My wishfull thinking was that the full bonus kicked in at 50-60% Health

That's why I took the effort to measure it.

And my last straw of wishfull thinking is that ZOS does a positive tweak on the set

jakeedmundson

hrothbern wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

I don't know if it's just wishful thinking.... but i still want to try this set when it comes to console.

smile... yeah.... My wishfull thinking was that the full bonus kicked in at 50-60% Health

That's why I took the effort to measure it.

And my last straw of wishfull thinking is that ZOS does a positive tweak on the set

I feel like it still has its uses... i know you've done your testing and i definitely agree it would be much better to get the full benefit earlier than 10% health left... but i think if you can get it v16 to replace a v13-14 footmans it could be usable.

Footmans only helps when blocking (which i only do in certain situations now because you can't block all the time) and pariah has some benefit there each time you take damage, regardless of blocking. I think if you can pair it with histbark v16 and only block heavy attacks and when at low health... could be good? I've never hit the resist cap yet... i haven't been able to make v15-16 gear yet so that's probably part of the reason. (i use footmans-13 ,histbark-14, and bloodspawn-16 all purple or gold quality)
I dunno... i'm just excited to give it a shot at least.

PhatGrimReaper

This set + Undeath passive + Mist Form might be groovy..... just for laughs in PVP... get down to 10 hp and be nigh invincible?

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Naslu wrote: »

hist bark on nb tank makes no sense , cause on class skill wich is givin me minor res. givin me major evasion buff , too.
but like i said other classes, sure

Yep! NB's get Minor Physical and Spell Resist buffs, on top of Major Dodge buff all from one cheap class ability. Since Major dodge buffs don't stack, this makes Hist Bark useless for NB tanks (at least those using Mirage, which all should be). For a Magicka Tank, Armor Master can still be useful if you use Harness Magicka a lot though, but even that isn't critical to NB tanking. NBs can get a lot of flexibility from armor sets. I currently use 5pc Lamae, 2pc Malubeth, 3pc Willpower, 2pc Endurance for my Magicka NB tank. Thinking of replacing Lamae for Julianos and Malubeth for Nerienth (or Torug's) though to see how much DPS I can crank out while still being beefy.

shugg

maybe the set was designed to fit with a non S&B tank, tbh i would love to tank 2h - I even raised it in the last Q&A they did on live where they mentioned that there could be an idea in there some where (not getting my hopes up)

if they could improve the mitigation when blocking with DW or 2H through the heavy armour passive then this set may have some worth.... till then 2h tanking vet prison is just a dream of mine

hrothbern

jakeedmundson wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

I don't know if it's just wishful thinking.... but i still want to try this set when it comes to console.

smile... yeah.... My wishfull thinking was that the full bonus kicked in at 50-60% Health

That's why I took the effort to measure it.

And my last straw of wishfull thinking is that ZOS does a positive tweak on the set

I feel like it still has its uses... i know you've done your testing and i definitely agree it would be much better to get the full benefit earlier than 10% health left... but i think if you can get it v16 to replace a v13-14 footmans it could be usable.

Footmans only helps when blocking (which i only do in certain situations now because you can't block all the time) and pariah has some benefit there each time you take damage, regardless of blocking. I think if you can pair it with histbark v16 and only block heavy attacks and when at low health... could be good? I've never hit the resist cap yet... i haven't been able to make v15-16 gear yet so that's probably part of the reason. (i use footmans-13 ,histbark-14, and bloodspawn-16 all purple or gold quality)
I dunno... i'm just excited to give it a shot at least.

as you say: Footmans only helps when blocking (which i only do in certain situations now because you can't block all the time) and pariah has some benefit there each time you take damage, regardless of blocking.
I absolutely agree !!!

This Pariah set does fit very well with the efforts of ZOS to support their view on less Blocking with a set.
The "Armor Master" set of IC certainly does have value for a non-permablocking tanky build.
Orsinium offers in general the complementary sets to IC !!!
The Maelstrom Master Weapons fit in general with the IC Jewelry. A 5 pc set + 3 IC Jewelry + 2 Monster + 1/2 Maelstrom Master.
The 5 pcs Orsinium sets that have Jewelry fit in general with the common 552 set up: two full sets + 2 Monster pcs.

High level the Pariah set seems to fit. But the devil is in the detail. And the detail of the Math is just not enough value.
Not everything that looks great in Powerpoint looks that good anymore in Excel

hrothbern

shugg wrote: »

maybe the set was designed to fit with a non S&B tank, tbh i would love to tank 2h - I even raised it in the last Q&A they did on live where they mentioned that there could be an idea in there some where (not getting my hopes up)

if they could improve the mitigation when blocking with DW or 2H through the heavy armour passive then this set may have some worth.... till then 2h tanking vet prison is just a dream of mine

yeah.. absolutely !

The Pariah set should be nice for the 2H or for the Battle Mage (DW or Stave) and offering Armor Resistance based on missing Health, as concept, fits very well . ZOS only needs to change the Math implementation of the concept.

Xvorg

shugg wrote: »

maybe the set was designed to fit with a non S&B tank, tbh i would love to tank 2h - I even raised it in the last Q&A they did on live where they mentioned that there could be an idea in there some where (not getting my hopes up)

if they could improve the mitigation when blocking with DW or 2H through the heavy armour passive then this set may have some worth.... till then 2h tanking vet prison is just a dream of mine

What about a magicka tank prone to use mage's guild equilibrium?

Personofsecrets

@hrothbern , I hear you.

I tried to convince @ZOS_RichLambert about the new maelstrom items, but it was to practically no avail. Whatever though. I'm glad I don't have to go into VMA. All of my nope toward being frustrated crap DPS because all I have done is tanked.

usmcjdking

It's been forever and a day since I'd seen hist bark. I'm pretty sure it does not give major evasion, but a diminishing dodge chance.

Xvorg wrote: »

shugg wrote: »

maybe the set was designed to fit with a non S&B tank, tbh i would love to tank 2h - I even raised it in the last Q&A they did on live where they mentioned that there could be an idea in there some where (not getting my hopes up)

if they could improve the mitigation when blocking with DW or 2H through the heavy armour passive then this set may have some worth.... till then 2h tanking vet prison is just a dream of mine

What about a magicka tank prone to use mage's guild equilibrium?

The loss of major fracture and major breach is HUGE.

shugg

Tanking, heavy armour and weapon choice for tanking needs re doing. Tanking should be fun in pve, pvp and solo just as other roles are. At the moment its only semi fun in pve , just needs to be focused on by zos for a bit.

Oh_Skrivva

Armor master is def a good set for tanks who are definitely on point with re applying buffs. I still like my hist bark/footmans/bloods pawn for tanking. I'm not the best tank by any means (far from it actually) I prefer dps and healing roles. I only made a tank due to difficulty finding tanks for groups sometimes. But hist bark set is a very good set and is definitely better for someone like me who is a lazy tank. Who hasn't fully mastered the tanking role and haven't tanked enough to know buff/debuff timers like back of my hand to not have to keep eye on the add ons I use like I am with my dps and healer toons. I can still do a good enough job to complete all the end game content with it though. As for the footman bonus only being useful only when blocking. Yeah it definitely loses some of its appeal due to stamina Regen nerfing. But since I am very experienced in end game group bosses and their mechanics. I know when I can block and when I don't need to. So footman still works great for me. Also, if I do miss my timing on blocking the bloodspawn set bonus with armor is often up so that helps negate some damage as well as the ultimate Regen bonus I can drop banners to reduce damage or become invincible with magma armor in dire moments often.

So my advice for gear is, for the pro tanks out their armor master is best, for the lazy Un experienced tanks hist bark is a solid choice.

Even if I became more proficient and skilled at tanking I'll prob still stick to the sets I have now instead of armor master due to the fact that I already have those pieces at v16 and gold and don't wanna use mats on making the v16 armor master and making them gold as well. Having to outfit 6 end game toons to gold is costly. And like I said I don't run my tank as often as my other toons so I'm in no rush to making armor master for my tank anyway. Unless of course ZOS gives us a new tanking set that is viable option.