Two Years of ESO PvP - Rylana's comments for ZOS

Xsorus

Siege hasn't been a counter for Zerg balls since they nerfed the oil catapults 70% unpuragble snare and the meatbag heal debuff stacking; back when you used both of those you could wipe Zerg balls fairly easy; then ZOS up and gutted it for some reason.

Galalin

Xsorus wrote: »

Siege hasn't been a counter for Zerg balls since they nerfed the oil catapults 70% unpuragble snare and the meatbag heal debuff stacking; back when you used both of those you could wipe Zerg balls fairly easy; then ZOS up and gutted it for some reason.

Because thats what ZoS does..babies complain how hard it is and there is no way 5 ppl should kill 20... well i got news 20 stupid ppl in a war fighting 5 special forces would have thier asses handed to them. I think you could even make the argument that PvP was better at launch... it might be a bit of a stretch but its not far off

DK SCRUB OUT

Xsorus

Pvp was vastly better at launch... There is no question

felinith66

Galalin wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Wrobel won't post because the moment he does he'll get torn apart for refusing to acknowledge the issues at hand.

Why? Because he refuses to acknowledge that his current systems are flawed.

I would tend to believe in his position he would not even look at these forums... and i don't thinkZoS would ever allow him to post here with the current condition of the game... nevermind him even wanting to

If that's true then what does that say about his competence level that ZOS is even protecting him from the forums?

His silence is not helping at all. They must realize this. But there's a reason he's hiding. Maybe it's pride. Maybe he's busy (doubt it as no other dev is saying this is the case). Or maybe it's something to do with that old saying that goes, "it's better to stay silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and erase all doubts."

Manoekin

xylena wrote: »

Again, ignoring the scenario I put forth. You're describing another group, not a zerg.

i was describing zergs, you should actually try thinking outside the blob and running in a strong group of 4-6 sometime, with the right skillsets you can accomplish quite a bit running around and through zergs especially while they're trying to siege or are tunnel visionining something... not nearly as much as we used to though, weak siege and the overall damage nerf has really limited the options for small groups to contribute to large scale battles

i've run in "bomb groups" and zergs before too, gotta know what you're up against to develop tactical counters to it, but every patch dumbs down the gameplay more and more... "find a big blob of allies and faceroll" is just way too powerful

I played both with and against the best small man players in NA's history. I feel I have room to talk on the issue. The situation I put forth was not a full raid, or close to it, of players on a resource being attacked by multiple raid groups of an opposing faction. Somehow people are mistaking that for the much, much smaller group being a "zerg ball" and even close to being in the same category as the multiple raids attacking a RESOURCE. You can think however you want, but to me you just look like an idiot even trying to argue they're similar at all.

I agree with you on your points though. I don't advocate anything to make raid groups any stronger. I want complete fairness on the battlefield and even wish modified dynamic ulti gen would come back as a way for smaller groups to gain a slight buff while fighting larger numbers.

Xsorus wrote: »

Pvp was vastly better at launch... There is no question

And you got rolled at launch, too. Stop trying to carry Columba's torch.

Poxheart

Tr

Xsorus wrote: »

Pvp was vastly better at launch... There is no question

Truth.

Galalin

felinith66 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Wrobel won't post because the moment he does he'll get torn apart for refusing to acknowledge the issues at hand.

Why? Because he refuses to acknowledge that his current systems are flawed.

I would tend to believe in his position he would not even look at these forums... and i don't thinkZoS would ever allow him to post here with the current condition of the game... nevermind him even wanting to

If that's true then what does that say about his competence level that ZOS is even protecting him from the forums?

His silence is not helping at all. They must realize this. But there's a reason he's hiding. Maybe it's pride. Maybe he's busy (doubt it as no other dev is saying this is the case). Or maybe it's something to do with that old saying that goes, "it's better to stay silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and erase all doubts."

That is very plausible and i wouldn't discount it for a second Ry

DK SCRUB OUT

contact.opiumb16_ESO

xylena wrote: »

Any chance you're considering doing something about steel tornado? It's absolutely stupid that the skill is FAR better than any AOE available to a magicka build.

please don't nerf steelnado! we need that for outnumbered stam builds to have any chance of doing damage to a larger group... if anything, buff impulse by restoring it to its former 8m radius glory

Hard Nerf ALL AOE in game ! Aoe is a lazy solution for skilless ppl who can just run like lemings and spam one button. An aoe shall deal the same damage than a single target dps but divided between 6 targets.

manny254

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Any chance you're considering doing something about steel tornado? It's absolutely stupid that the skill is FAR better than any AOE available to a magicka build.

please don't nerf steelnado! we need that for outnumbered stam builds to have any chance of doing damage to a larger group... if anything, buff impulse by restoring it to its former 8m radius glory

Hard Nerf ALL AOE in game ! Aoe is a lazy solution for skilless ppl who can just run like lemings and spam one button. An aoe shall deal the same damage than a single target dps but divided between 6 targets.

You do understand that aoe is the only way you can defeat large groups of enemies when you are severely out numbered?

Nerfing aoe means the game is literally numbers win.

VincentBlanquin

Galalin wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Siege hasn't been a counter for Zerg balls since they nerfed the oil catapults 70% unpuragble snare and the meatbag heal debuff stacking; back when you used both of those you could wipe Zerg balls fairly easy; then ZOS up and gutted it for some reason.

Because thats what ZoS does..babies complain how hard it is and there is no way 5 ppl should kill 20... well i got news 20 stupid ppl in a war fighting 5 special forces would have thier asses handed to them. I think you could even make the argument that PvP was better at launch... it might be a bit of a stretch but its not far off

DK SCRUB OUT

problem is babies cry about bugs and overpowered abilities. Nobody ask for complete overhaul

contact.opiumb16_ESO

manny254 wrote: »

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Any chance you're considering doing something about steel tornado? It's absolutely stupid that the skill is FAR better than any AOE available to a magicka build.

please don't nerf steelnado! we need that for outnumbered stam builds to have any chance of doing damage to a larger group... if anything, buff impulse by restoring it to its former 8m radius glory

Hard Nerf ALL AOE in game ! Aoe is a lazy solution for skilless ppl who can just run like lemings and spam one button. An aoe shall deal the same damage than a single target dps but divided between 6 targets.

You do understand that aoe is the only way you can defeat large groups of enemies when you are severely out numbered?

Nerfing aoe means the game is literally numbers win.

Do you reallise that aoe in this game is used by zergs to defeat anything by spamming one button, numbers already win but with a lazy way : spamming aoe without even taking time to actually target something.

meta pre 1.5 : zerg with impulse spam
meta pre 1.6 : zerg with steel tornado AND (because ZOS have always good ideas) prox det

What's new ? One more skill to use. Not a spam sure, it explod every 8 sec now (facepalm)

MLRPZ

With no AoE cap, a small group with good tactics AND AoE could defeat those zergs

BTW, can we define what is a Zerg ?
For me it's a bunch of randoms (30+) running in the same direction because they really don't have a clue what they're doing, if you call a 24 man organized group a zerg, well.. that's just the format the game wants us to play so..

VincentBlanquin

no AAA game should have their only pvp to be so cattering to zergs. Unless ZOS already gave up AAA mark, what is entirely possible

Olivierko

MLRPZ wrote: »

if you call a 24 man organized group a zerg, well.. that's just the format the game wants us to play so..

Format the game wants us to play?

I don't know about you but my fps and latency hits the sky whenever these one button spammers come around.

Not only has it killed the game, it made people god damn awful at actual PvP.

Lava_Croft

PvP performed better at launch, but saying PvP as a whole was better at launch is just stupid.

Alcast

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

no AAA game should have their only pvp to be so cattering to zergs. Unless ZOS already gave up AAA mark, what is entirely possible

AAA good joke.

More like BBB (BugsBugsBugs)

contact.opiumb16_ESO

MLRPZ wrote: »

With no AoE cap, a small group with good tactics AND AoE could defeat those zergs

BTW, can we define what is a Zerg ?
For me it's a bunch of randoms (30+) running in the same direction because they really don't have a clue what they're doing, if you call a 24 man organized group a zerg, well.. that's just the format the game wants us to play so..

A zerg is a group of players running behind the crown, stacked in a very small area. Some are organized, others are not. But "organised" groups are ALL like this :
1. 1/3 spamming stell tornado/impulse/prox
2. 1/3 are spamming HoT and purge
3. 1/3 are spamming gap closers/mono target damages

Before, when we wanted to spread a zerg, oils, meatballs etc worked very well. Now it's purgeable and it's useless to use those sieges anymore, except vs full random pvers groups.

The damage priority is not good too. The safer you are to deal damage, the weaker should be your damage output (range vs melee, aka risk vs reward). The more you can hit multiple targets, the less you should deal damage. With a aoe cap of 6 targets, you should deal less damage than a single target skill. For example : steel tornado shall hit 6 targets for 1000 dmg when a single target shall deal 6000 dmg.

Draxys

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

MLRPZ wrote: »

With no AoE cap, a small group with good tactics AND AoE could defeat those zergs

BTW, can we define what is a Zerg ?
For me it's a bunch of randoms (30+) running in the same direction because they really don't have a clue what they're doing, if you call a 24 man organized group a zerg, well.. that's just the format the game wants us to play so..

A zerg is a group of players running behind the crown, stacked in a very small area. Some are organized, others are not. But "organised" groups are ALL like this :
1. 1/3 spamming stell tornado/impulse/prox
2. 1/3 are spamming HoT and purge
3. 1/3 are spamming gap closers/mono target damages

Before, when we wanted to spread a zerg, oils, meatballs etc worked very well. Now it's purgeable and it's useless to use those sieges anymore, except vs full random pvers groups.

The damage priority is not good too. The safer you are to deal damage, the weaker should be your damage output (range vs melee, aka risk vs reward). The more you can hit multiple targets, the less you should deal damage. With a aoe cap of 6 targets, you should deal less damage than a single target skill. For example : steel tornado shall hit 6 targets for 1000 dmg when a single target shall deal 6000 dmg.

PLOT TWIST

Oils and meat bags have always been purgeable

Joy_Division

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Since most of this information is scattered about the forums here's a nice condensed "short answer" list:

• Reintroducing forward camps with smaller radius', restrictive respawning within radius only and global cooldown.
• Refactoring Siege damage (again)
• Removing alliance campaign restrictions on your account
• Allowing you to unassign yourself with cooldowns
• Redo'ing the guards at the Scroll gates and putting them on the ground
• More things to spend your AP on and updating current sets to higher levels

Most, if not all, of these changes should be in the next major update (barring issues with testing).

We are also staying vigilant about improving performance in Cyrodiil. There were a few ability changes made earlier this week and we're watching the performance after those changes, but we're still digging into getting the performance better.

I know you are trying.

The problem is these other anonymous people hold all the power to actually do something that will tangibly effect our PvP experience and server performance. I mean getting rid of the well-intended but ultimately ineffective and burdensome campaign restriction will make it so I don't have to inconvenience people on my friend's list to actually PvP. Win. TY. But when I get to Cyordiil - none of these changes will entice the blob-groups to actually spread out or give us the ability to punish said blob groups.

The mysterious "combat team" and these "programmers and producers" who have to sanction any addition change/objectives to Cyrodiil are responsible for this mess and really should cease their secretive ways and just open a line of communication with us. After two years of failing to address the problems and unhealthy meta in Cyrodiil, it is plain as day their method of operation does not work.

FENGRUSH

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PvP performed better at launch, but saying PvP as a whole was better at launch is just stupid.

It was lightyears better than laggy ball groups clashing and killing the server. Even if the performance was good - ball groups are simply dull.

A 24 man raid should involve more than hugging crown and running one of a couple roles with varied ults.

Jammer480

I'm just tired of all the whining and bitching...the game is awesome. I can't imagine what some of you people must be like in real life...geez, you must be miserable to work with. Since your parents obviously didn't teach you this, Rule #1 in life is that everything changes. Learn to roll with it and stfu. Are there imbalances? Sure. Deal with it. If you have a legit complaint, send it to ZOS. If you don't like the game, please, please, please do us a favor and leave. There is absolutely nothing worse than getting in a group and someone insists on dragging the game down constantly...THAT is what wrecks a game.

I work full time, get to play around 3hrs a day. The only thing that hurts my enjoyment of this game is that the slackers and losers(generally speaking) who have no life or job originally had a huge advantage over those of us who have limited playing time. I'm glad to see ZOS is making adjustments(like Ch. points cap) to help the survival of the majority of the players and hope they continue to level the playing field for everyone.

Btw...I think historically speaking, zergs pretty much rule in warfare. Germany used it in the WW's and US even used it in Irag. I think people the majority of people who don't like zergs are loners with limited friends, trying to play God, and hate it when they get rolled by a group of friends having fun. I sincerely hope ZOS never tries to balance that out of the game. The epic battles of zerg vs zerg would be lost...those battles are the best thing in the game.

FENGRUSH

Jammer480 wrote: »

Btw...I think historically speaking, zergs pretty much rule in warfare. Germany used it in the WW's and US even used it in Irag.

Did you just name 2 groups that used 'zerging' and didnt win their wars and claim they 'pretty much rule (historically speaking)'?

Jammer480 wrote: »

If you don't like the game, please, please, please do us a favor and leave.

Many already did.

Jammer480 wrote: »

Are there imbalances? Sure. Deal with it.

Did Wroebel finally make a forum account?!

Lava_Croft

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PvP performed better at launch, but saying PvP as a whole was better at launch is just stupid.

It was lightyears better than laggy ball groups clashing and killing the server. Even if the performance was good - ball groups are simply dull.

A 24 man raid should involve more than hugging crown and running one of a couple roles with varied ults.

PvP at launch was nothing but Dragon Knights. Sure, there was no lag, but there also wasn't even the faintest balance and zero protection against cheats. The current situation just increases the power of the nostalgia glasses. I'm also susceptible to it.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

Jammer480 wrote: »

I'm just tired of all the whining and bitching...the game is awesome. I can't imagine what some of you people must be like in real life...geez, you must be miserable to work with. Since your parents obviously didn't teach you this, Rule #1 in life is that everything changes. Learn to roll with it and stfu. Are there imbalances? Sure. Deal with it. If you have a legit complaint, send it to ZOS. If you don't like the game, please, please, please do us a favor and leave. There is absolutely nothing worse than getting in a group and someone insists on dragging the game down constantly...THAT is what wrecks a game.

I work full time, get to play around 3hrs a day. The only thing that hurts my enjoyment of this game is that the slackers and losers(generally speaking) who have no life or job originally had a huge advantage over those of us who have limited playing time. I'm glad to see ZOS is making adjustments(like Ch. points cap) to help the survival of the majority of the players and hope they continue to level the playing field for everyone.

Btw...I think historically speaking, zergs pretty much rule in warfare. Germany used it in the WW's and US even used it in Irag. I think people the majority of people who don't like zergs are loners with limited friends, trying to play God, and hate it when they get rolled by a group of friends having fun. I sincerely hope ZOS never tries to balance that out of the game. The epic battles of zerg vs zerg would be lost...those battles are the best thing in the game.

loled so hard !

Every single experienced pvp player knows how bad eso pvp is. The PVE side is very nice, but it is a pvp focused thread here. I do have 35 years old, playing MMOs since DOAC, i also played in HL at WOW, GW1 & 2, SW, AEON, RIFT, and tried some others (plus we can count LOL and DOTA 1 & 2). I have a descent experience in PVP, and this one (ESOTU) is whorst i have tried. The balancing is damn bad, performances are terrible, even the strategy & objectives design is very, very bad.

I do like ESO, i do like ES series (i finsihed all of them) BUT TBH this pvp is a fail from release... to the end (when servers will shut down).

FENGRUSH

Lava_Croft wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PvP performed better at launch, but saying PvP as a whole was better at launch is just stupid.

It was lightyears better than laggy ball groups clashing and killing the server. Even if the performance was good - ball groups are simply dull.

A 24 man raid should involve more than hugging crown and running one of a couple roles with varied ults.

PvP at launch was nothing but Dragon Knights. Sure, there was no lag, but there also wasn't even the faintest balance and zero protection against cheats. The current situation just increases the power of the nostalgia glasses. I'm also susceptible to it.

FENGRUSH was not a dragonknight so this is clearly a lie. Luvboard fell at the hands of FENGRUSH and songs were written in His name.

Lava_Croft

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PvP performed better at launch, but saying PvP as a whole was better at launch is just stupid.

It was lightyears better than laggy ball groups clashing and killing the server. Even if the performance was good - ball groups are simply dull.

A 24 man raid should involve more than hugging crown and running one of a couple roles with varied ults.

PvP at launch was nothing but Dragon Knights. Sure, there was no lag, but there also wasn't even the faintest balance and zero protection against cheats. The current situation just increases the power of the nostalgia glasses. I'm also susceptible to it.

FENGRUSH was not a dragonknight so this is clearly a lie. Luvboard fell at the hands of FENGRUSH and songs were written in His name.

I was neither, but it was still all Dragon Knights. The fact you might've killed one doesn't change anything about that. Wiping a zerg doesn't mean zergs are fine.

Anyhow, launch-time PvP is never returning because I doubt ZOS can untangle the spaghetti even if they wanted to.

Jammer480

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Jammer480 wrote: »

Btw...I think historically speaking, zergs pretty much rule in warfare. Germany used it in the WW's and US even used it in Irag.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Did you just name 2 groups that used 'zerging' and didnt win their wars and claim they 'pretty much rule (historically speaking)'?

That's strange...last I checked Iraq was out of Kuwait. I take it you don't see the news much, son? Germans would rule the world if all the land masses were attached. Their zerg was unequaled. And those were recent wars. Historically, medieval wars were ALL won by the zerg.

Jammer480 wrote: »

If you don't like the game, please, please, please do us a favor and leave.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Many already did.

You're still here...move on.

FENGRUSH

Lava_Croft wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PvP performed better at launch, but saying PvP as a whole was better at launch is just stupid.

It was lightyears better than laggy ball groups clashing and killing the server. Even if the performance was good - ball groups are simply dull.

A 24 man raid should involve more than hugging crown and running one of a couple roles with varied ults.

PvP at launch was nothing but Dragon Knights. Sure, there was no lag, but there also wasn't even the faintest balance and zero protection against cheats. The current situation just increases the power of the nostalgia glasses. I'm also susceptible to it.

FENGRUSH was not a dragonknight so this is clearly a lie. Luvboard fell at the hands of FENGRUSH and songs were written in His name.

I was neither, but it was still all Dragon Knights. The fact you might've killed one doesn't change anything about that. Wiping a zerg doesn't mean zergs are fine.

Anyhow, launch-time PvP is never returning because I doubt ZOS can untangle the spaghetti even if they wanted to.

Yea I know, there was really bad problems with numerical things, but the structure of things was sound. Dynamic ult gen, no AOE caps on ground ults and AOE damage. Those were pretty key. There were like 3 sets in the game back then, and people were using ult gen through the roof. They needed to revisit the numbers on how ult was generated. For example, generating ult through ult damage wasnt good! They just did lazy quick fixes. People were generating ult in mass off others, so they put in caps - didnt fix it? Make the ult gen static. etc.

Jammer480 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Jammer480 wrote: »

Btw...I think historically speaking, zergs pretty much rule in warfare. Germany used it in the WW's and US even used it in Irag.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Did you just name 2 groups that used 'zerging' and didnt win their wars and claim they 'pretty much rule (historically speaking)'?

That's strange...last I checked Iraq was out of Kuwait. I take it you don't see the news much, son? Germans would rule the world if all the land masses were attached. Their zerg was unequaled. And those were recent wars. Historically, medieval wars were ALL won by the zerg.

Jammer480 wrote: »

If you don't like the game, please, please, please do us a favor and leave.

Many already did.

You're still here...move on.

Your opinion is youre a casual and you detest people who are less casual than you. Large scale PvP battles would be lost because (?) (good players?) - you werent really clear on that. But basically you probably dont even know anyway and you just dont like good players is the general vibe your post gives off. Once you start referencing how modern and historic day wars were won by zergs and therefore if X shows up with more people than Y, Y should accept defeat, we knew there was no point discussing things with you that involved making interesting PvP.

<Insert generic reference to counter argument of how numbers always win of historic battle where smaller group won as a reason to argue for removal of AOE caps only to be countered by another historic reference that shows your IQ is equivalent to that of a toothbrush.>

Manoekin

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PvP performed better at launch, but saying PvP as a whole was better at launch is just stupid.

It was lightyears better than laggy ball groups clashing and killing the server. Even if the performance was good - ball groups are simply dull.

A 24 man raid should involve more than hugging crown and running one of a couple roles with varied ults.

PvP at launch was nothing but Dragon Knights. Sure, there was no lag, but there also wasn't even the faintest balance and zero protection against cheats. The current situation just increases the power of the nostalgia glasses. I'm also susceptible to it.

FENGRUSH was not a dragonknight so this is clearly a lie. Luvboard fell at the hands of FENGRUSH and songs were written in His name.

Luvboard dying?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PvP performed better at launch, but saying PvP as a whole was better at launch is just stupid.

It was lightyears better than laggy ball groups clashing and killing the server. Even if the performance was good - ball groups are simply dull.

A 24 man raid should involve more than hugging crown and running one of a couple roles with varied ults.

It does involve more than this. You should try joining or leading a 'good' group. There are plenty of bad bomb groups who just copy paste builds and run in a line. That's no different to all the copy paste soloers who take a build they see on youtube and slot it with still no clue how to play it.

A good group is vastly different. For example there are multiple roles within my main group all adaptable based on what type of enemy we find whether that be a herd of pugs all spread out or a stacked counter bomb group.

Also gvg can be as interesting as a dueling tournament. But your welcome to have an opinion.